Theoretical idea impossible? torque meter without torque meter for all motors

The reasoning arises from the fact that on all my motors (including the levo, via blewo) I have a wattmeter.
This shows me that an electric motor is already a torque meter in itself ...
It simply measures the force with the current draw.
The more effort, the more it absorbs, the less effort, the less it absorbs.
Let's take a common ebike control unit, both hub and bbs.
It has both a pas and an accelerator.
let's say to use the pas as a consensus function at the start and as a stop.
Then I take a 3 euro coupon acs712. It is a card that I have seen used for Arduino and it has the function that measures a current and from two pins that are at 2.5v when empty, it increases by a tot of mV every measured ampere.
We neglect the use with arduino (which has no analogue output from what I know unfortunately) since it can be used stand alone, just power it at 5v.
What would happen if I connected the output of the coupon to the accelerator (which also has a hall, it doesn't start from scratch, I don't remember if its 2.5v but we're there) and measured its absorption with the coupon?
When a climb comes the engine absorbs more and accelerates. however, if I pedal I get the opposite of the torque meter, the more I pedal, the less the motor absorbs and obviously the throttle voltage drops and the motor gives less. It would be good for the lazy, they pedal for pretense, they arrive uphill, the engine accelerates and they continue to pedal for pretense
Therefore a "logic" would be needed to reverse its operation, I pedal, the absorption decreases, the motor accelerates.
Obviously, the more sophisticated the logic, the more everything works better ....
Is it a far-fetched thing?

this will not work, if it can work, bosh yamaha and others will do that.
imagine a starting it, how it will start ? when you power on there will be 0 current, so it will settle 0 throttle, when you pedal there will be same 0 current. If there will be some current at power on, it wil increase throttle -> increase current -> increase throttle - this will set full throttle, and run at maximum speed, and pedaling will not stop it.

andrea_104kg said:

Obviously, the more sophisticated the logic, the more everything works better ....
Is it a far-fetched thing?

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Well,.... modeling a race car is not easy.. but it wins races when you have Research and development money. Awnsering your question, YES this is distinctly possible 100%. Also, Used in production vehicles in torque limiting, power output control, and traction control, every day, millions of them.

A system used in modern production traction control systems uses a model of the cars behavior in the computer to calculate a "virtual," amount of torque being output at any time.

They do this with RPM sensor on all rotating aspects of the vehicle ( crank, cam, wheels, transmission, ect). The computer has a model of how the vehicle reacts. This is programmed around for desired effect.

The computer knows the calculated HP value at any time.
The computer can react quicker to the physics of the vehicle than teh human
The vehicle does do this, in a few ways. Modern vehicles are very complex.. So...

Certainly, this system has been used since computers have been running cars, they have worked on how to control the power, and or excess of power, for every racecar design (average person KNOWS) it takes power to spin up, but also takes every race car design (engineer KNOWS) a huge amount of power for DECELERATION also. All this must be considered in the formula. For a controlled (loop?) system to be designed and implemented.

Early ( primitive) systems used engine advance retarding on 8x8 tables to limit wheelspin, power output, and torque from the feedback, in RPM/RPM/Sec, given the wheel speed sensor(S) reading delta (change) and rate of change. Worked well, with toothed wheels and VR sensors on the wheels hub, (also: a precursor to Antilock Brake Systems ).

However, the system is very complicated, the closest I have seen on the hobby, or DIY level is traction (power, torque) control implemented on some DIY racecar fuel injection systems.. but to achieve a usable ebike with this programmed in may be impossible to go at alone: without much struggle and calculation proficiency.

Yep.

stepus said:

this will not work, if it can work, bosh yamaha and others will do that.
imagine a starting it, how it will start ? when you power on there will be 0 current, so it will settle 0 throttle, when you pedal there will be same 0 current. If there will be some current at power on, it wil increase throttle -> increase current -> increase throttle - this will set full throttle, and run at maximum speed, and pedaling will not stop it.

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NOPE

Would work. Does work. Is in production.

Yamaha does do it. Lol. All day. So does Honda, Mv Agusta, BMS, Kaw, Duke, Aprilia, ect... and I am sure some o the Isle of Mann TT racer, and the MotoE Grand Prix, certainly. All, all day.

Throttle input value is certainly an aspect of a modern traction control system. The speed of the twist vs how fast the vehicle is going how much powe the vehicle is making, and how much torque or potential torque the vehicle may make from any twist of the throttle. In any time frame programmed by the ... developers. It is measured in V/Sec. Many have triple redundant Throttle Position sensors for they are so very important to the vehicles systems ( 3, or more, 0-5v potential coils, and wipers, in one sensor assy, just in case one, or two, fail the system still has input parameter to control the vehicle.... ).

Here is a short, example, and exerpt, of such, manipulation of output around a slew rate. Described as in the text.

https://www.hotrod.com/articles/watch-how-megasquirt-traction-control-hooks-the-pavement/

~can be set up to look at the "slew rate" of the engine rpm to determine if the engine is accelerating quicker than possible if it was hooked up EX: when suffering from wheelspin.

In drag racing, assuming the car is driven consistently every time, we can predict a myriad of driving events accurately, which is why we have timer-based controls for nitrous, and other power-adders. Engine rpm can be predicated to accelerate at a specific slew rate basically a measurement of how much rpm the engine gains over time and when the engine rpm exceeds a known rate of acceleration, the MS3 Pro can safely assume that the rear tires are spinning. Once the front wheels settle on the ground and register an accurate speed, the MS3 Pro will automatically switch to the wheel speed sensors for the rest of the run.

Once it does detect enough slip, unlike the hard-cuts used by OEMs which would quickly shock-load and destroy parts in high-horsepower applications it uses a list of methods to reduce engine torque smoothly, such as reducing boost with the wastegates, heavily retarding timing with coil-pack ignition, or controlling nitrous stages, to safely reduce engine torque and control wheel spin. The best part is these methods can reduce output while keeping turb~

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This is far more accurate than purely relying on timer-based, or per-gear boost and nitrous controls, as it is always adjusting output based on available traction, instead of a pre-programmed assumption of traction available.

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Modern vehicles are very, very complicated. They know much more about Physics than I do, for sure. These days. They certainly know what the wheels are doing, whether slipping, speeding, slowing, (or going to be, in any short order)... . They certainly know the power out at any time. They can estimate the effect of certain throttle applications and the implication s to the traction of the vehicle at any certain time. Without the driver ever even noticing, I would go as far, as to state. Friend.

yes it will work in complex system, but he asked if he can connect current sensing hall sensor output to controller throttle input - this will not work because he is not having user imput to control loop - manual throttle on bars. Yes launch control is easy system comparate to system of vehicle stability there is when physics come

stepus said:

yes it will work in complex system, but he asked if he can connect current sensing hall sensor output to controller throttle input - this will not work because he is not having user imput to control loop -

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Oh yes certainly the OP method would NOT work proficiently.. Certainly no gain there. As is stated, by the OP.

but the notion is mapped and implemented with the use of complicated electronics in modern design I just wanted to reassure.