TSDZ2 OSF for all displays, VLCD5-VLCD6-XH18, LCD3, 860C-850C-SW102.

Electric Motors and Controllers
cascarabias   1 mW

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Re: TSDZ2 OSF for all displays, VLCD5-VLCD6-XH18, LCD3, 860C-850C-SW102.

Post by cascarabias » Jan 08 2022 3:39am

Good morning everyone, yesterday I changed my tsdz2 to v20.1c.3 LCD3, after making the changes in battery levels, etc. The screen displays "error 02" this is an assist torque error. I have read in the manual but I can't understand how to calibrate the torque assist. Can you help me?
thank you

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Re: TSDZ2 OSF for all displays, VLCD5-VLCD6-XH18, LCD3, 860C-850C-SW102.

Post by andyb » Jan 08 2022 3:50am

Thanks for the quick responses it's much appreciated, if I solve it I'll post findings for others.

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Re: TSDZ2 OSF for all displays, VLCD5-VLCD6-XH18, LCD3, 860C-850C-SW102.

Post by mbrusa » Jan 08 2022 4:14am

cascarabias wrote:
Jan 08 2022 3:39am
Good morning everyone, yesterday I changed my tsdz2 to v20.1c.3 LCD3, after making the changes in battery levels, etc. The screen displays "error 02" this is an assist torque error. I have read in the manual but I can't understand how to calibrate the torque assist. Can you help me?
thank you
These are the manuals (not fully updated):
https://github.com/emmebrusa/TSDZ2-Smar ... -LCD3/wiki
https://github.com/bbeschea/TSDZ2_wiki/ ... DZ2-V20.1C

The menu items for calibration:

3.0 - Torque sensor calibration
Enabled / Disabled.
Enable only after having entered the actual values of “Pedal torque ADC offset” and “Pedal torque ADC max”, obtained from the calibration.
Enabling without having entered the correct values can lead to unpredictable operations.
Calibration procedure: display in the "Technical Data" menu, the item (11.2) - "Torque sensor ADC value", enter the ADC value of the torque sensor without any push on the pedals in "Pedal torque ADC offset" (10.10). Enter the ADC value of the torque sensor with the maximum thrust applied to the pedal (cyclist standing on the right pedal in horizontal position) in "Pedal torque ADC max" (10.11).
Torque sensor calibration is required if the working range is limited, “Pedal torque ADC max” - “Pedal torque ADC offset” < 140.
Caution. The ADC values of the torque sensor over time may change, check periodically.

10.10 - Pedal torque ADC offset (no weight)
ADC value of the torque sensor without any push on the pedals.
It is obtained from the calibration procedure to be carried out on the display.
When you need to increase the sensitivity at the start, for example with a arm-bike, subtract a number from 1 to 10 from the value obtained.
Caution. Decreasing the offset value too much can cause an unwanted start and / or a delayed motor stop.

10.11 - Pedal torque ADC max (max weight)
ADC value of the torque sensor with the maximum thrust applied to the pedal (cyclist standing, on the right pedal in horizontal position).
It is obtained from the calibration procedure to be carried out on the display.
This parameter is used to amplify the range of use of the torque sensor when it is too limited.
Check that the assistance is well distributed over all levels and in all modes, if necessary correct the value obtained in plus or minus. Lower value = higher amplification.

Elinx   10 kW

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Re: TSDZ2 OSF for all displays, VLCD5-VLCD6-XH18, LCD3, 860C-850C-SW102.

Post by Elinx » Jan 09 2022 5:39am

I have moved the questions from Pete and answers, because imho this is a better place for it.

>>>>>>>>>>>>
-Pete- wrote:
Jan 08 2022 1:22pm
..... don't understand how to set parameters on the display. .... I need an 'idiots guide' please :)
..... I want to select Cadence Assist. From power-up, exactly what buttons do I need to press, for how long, to do this?...
First choose the right level, after this It is easier to count the number of pushes of the light button to toggle an option.
E02=two (1x2) pushes, E03=four (2x2) pushes, E04=six (3x2) pushes
Cadence assist >>>>>Level 2 (Tour) - E04: do six pushes (3x2) on light button and wait till the flashing of E04 stops .... done

In short (with some extra toggle examples):
- Cadence assist >>> Level 2 -E04: L2- 6 pushes
- Torque assist >>> Level 2 - E03: L2 - 4 pushes
- Power assist >>> Level 2 - E02: L2 - 2 pushes
- Emtb assist >>> Level 3 - E02: L3 - 2 pushes
- Off Road or Street mode >>> Level 1- E02: L1 - 2 pushes
-Pete- wrote:
Jan 08 2022 1:22pm
... I've tried MPH vs Km/H and understand the x5/8 conversion, I don't like full battery saying 62.4% ....
The problem is that the mph calculation is done inside the display which is untouched.
I use always km/h so don't have problems.
As I understand you must setup mph inside Java configurator AND display, but I don't know if this does work for battery % reading too.

Other solution could be from Suggy, He has a Vlcd6 with "kph only" and has set inside java configurator a smaller( 0,6214 x real one) wheel circumfence for reading miles and mph on display. (if needed, think about it to set a lower speedlimit (mph) too)
Last edited by Elinx on Jan 09 2022 8:25am, edited 1 time in total.

labzoli   1 µW

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Re: TSDZ2 OSF for all displays, VLCD5-VLCD6-XH18, LCD3, 860C-850C-SW102.

Post by labzoli » Jan 09 2022 6:14am

Hi,

First of all thank you for the great firmware, it’s awesome. Much better compared to the factory default sw.
The noise of the motor is smaller, better proportional assistance also on high cadence. Lot of configuration and display possibilities on stock delivered displays as well.
I really appreciate it to invest your time to help for others.

Few questions (I have new TSDZ2 48V VLCD6 display, v20.1c.1 sw system ):
- I saw that v20.1c.3 sw can damage the FET. I don’t want to kill my new motor, is there any way to avoid it?
e.g.(not switching on field weakening), I would use the deceleration function for better shifting.
- I calibrated the torque sensor, and seems to be more or less accurate observing the assistance levels in Watt however the human power is not displayed correctly. Sometimes 3 or 4 appears but it shows mostly 00.0 even at hard pedaling. v20.1c.3 solves this?
- What is the maximum power according to your experience which can be used for durable load for the motor. Now I have the recommended 12A limit, can I overheat it, if I go several minutes with full power? (don't have heat sensor)
Thanks
Zoltan

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Re: TSDZ2 OSF for all displays, VLCD5-VLCD6-XH18, LCD3, 860C-850C-SW102.

Post by mbrusa » Jan 09 2022 11:07am

No, don't use v20.1C3 and v20.1C.3-NEW for stock displays, the risk of burning mosfets is real.
I advise you to wait for the next version, it is close.

Yes, the human power calculation is not correct with the calibration enabled, it is one of the changes in the next version.

It is difficult to establish the maximum continuous power.
I only have 36V motors, from tests done, with 340W power the temperature stabilizes at 75 ° C (air temperature 24 ° C).
With 48V motor, I think a few tens of Watts more.

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Re: TSDZ2 OSF for all displays, VLCD5-VLCD6-XH18, LCD3, 860C-850C-SW102.

Post by -Pete- » Jan 09 2022 12:15pm

Thanks to Elinx for the answers below, and to mbrusa and everyone involved... I'm now having fun experimenting with the different modes in V20.1.C1 :)

Two more questions:
1) Is there any feedback on VLCD5 so I can see which settings I've changed (e.g. which mode)? Or do I just have to keep track of which changes I made since power-on? For example, I can't tell the difference between startup boost on or off, is there a way I can see which state it's in?

2) Does Max Amps and Max Power in the configurator actually limit peak values? I seem to remember I read something about it, but can't remember where.

Thanks.

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Re: TSDZ2 OSF for all displays, VLCD5-VLCD6-XH18, LCD3, 860C-850C-SW102.

Post by blowhole » Jan 09 2022 12:33pm

Quick question about the torque sensors ADC min and max settings in the configurator. Can I use the TE/TE1 readings from the VLCD5 hidden menu for my first time flashing so I don't need to do it twice?

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Re: TSDZ2 OSF for all displays, VLCD5-VLCD6-XH18, LCD3, 860C-850C-SW102.

Post by Elinx » Jan 09 2022 6:41pm

-Pete- wrote:
Jan 09 2022 12:15pm
....
1) Is there any feedback on VLCD5 so I can see which settings ...

2) Does Max Amps and Max Power in the configurator actually limit peak values? ...
1. You can see the toggle state of E0x by uneven pushes ( 1, 3 or 5 pushes), but normally you don't change a lot.
Mostly it is street mode and sometimes an assist mode or in your case boost.
(Boost L1-03 >>> 3 pushes for the state of it, 4 pushes to change that state)

For all these settings you should feel the difference when biking.
If you haven't changed the default values (from java configurator) on display with L0 - E04, switch off/on the display is enough to get the default values again.

2. Yes, it is for limiting the peak values.
The Voltage of the battery differ with full and almost emty. For 36V it is between 42-31V
If you limit the current to 14A with almost emty battery the engine can give 14x31V= 434W for a short time (till battery is empty).
For almost the same max. power on the complete uncharge curve you can choose a limit of about 440W.
With full battery, max. amp. is just 440/42= 10.5 A for a short time.
The max. current that will be there the longest time will be 440/36= 12.2A.
blowhole wrote:
Jan 09 2022 12:33pm
...Can I use the TE/TE1 ...
Theoretical Yes, but practical No, because the conversion factor to OSF of these values is unknown.
But imho the calibration is really easy to do with L1- E04 (6 pushes) plus 2 pushes you have 25 sec. for zero/max weight.
Last edited by Elinx on Jan 11 2022 6:24am, edited 4 times in total.

-Pete-   1 mW

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Re: TSDZ2 OSF for all displays, VLCD5-VLCD6-XH18, LCD3, 860C-850C-SW102.

Post by -Pete- » Jan 09 2022 6:47pm

Thanks!

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Re: TSDZ2 OSF for all displays, VLCD5-VLCD6-XH18, LCD3, 860C-850C-SW102.

Post by blowhole » Jan 10 2022 12:33am

Elinx wrote:
Jan 09 2022 6:41pm
blowhole wrote:
Jan 09 2022 12:33pm
...Can I use the TE/TE1 ...
Theoretical Yes, but practical No, because the conversion factor to OSF of these values is unknown.
But imho the calibration is really easy to do with L1- E04 (6 pushes) plus 2 pushes you have 25 sec. for zero/max weight.
Just tried it and the values are absolutely, completely different.

Another interesting observation is that during the first flash I had no problems with the STLink ($12 clone), but the second time, STVP gave me a "Cannot communicate with the device" error. Some forum posts suggest to cut down the wires to as short as possible (2-3cm) but this would have been really annoying... The only difference between the two attempts is that the first time I used a 6ft USB extension cable and the second time I did not. After adding back the extension cable, everything worked perfectly. I don't have any good explanation why, except that maybe the extra resistance in the cable attenuated the 5V to a somehow more desirable range (maybe related to why some people have better luck with the 3.3V output according to the wiki?).

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Re: TSDZ2 OSF for all displays, VLCD5-VLCD6-XH18, LCD3, 860C-850C-SW102.

Post by Elinx » Jan 10 2022 4:54am

blowhole wrote:
Jan 10 2022 12:33am
.....
Just tried it and the values are absolutely, completely different......
Exactly. :wink:
Both TE values of the Vlcd5 and the measured values with OSF represent the same zero/max values from the torque sensor, but are determined and presented in a different way.
Because it is unknown how these TE values are determed, you can't recalculate them for OSF.
blowhole wrote:
Jan 10 2022 12:33am
.....cut down the wires to as short as possible (2-3cm) but this would have been really annoying..
Normally the ST-link close as possible to the engine and a longer USB to PC does work the best. But it must be a full wired USB, which is not always the case.
I prefer to connect the original three ST-link wire sockets directly. The unused wires I connect to gnd.
That some use the 3.3V had sometimes to do with wrong printed ST-link housing, so it looks only that 5V is missing.
You can see this by sliding the housing back slightly and compare the text on PCB and housing to find the right 5V pin.
Last edited by Elinx on Jan 12 2022 7:28am, edited 2 times in total.

labzoli   1 µW

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Re: TSDZ2 OSF for all displays, VLCD5-VLCD6-XH18, LCD3, 860C-850C-SW102.

Post by labzoli » Jan 10 2022 5:37am

mbrusa wrote:
Jan 09 2022 11:07am
No, don't use v20.1C3 and v20.1C.3-NEW for stock displays, the risk of burning mosfets is real.
I advise you to wait for the next version, it is close.

Yes, the human power calculation is not correct with the calibration enabled, it is one of the changes in the next version.

It is difficult to establish the maximum continuous power.
I only have 36V motors, from tests done, with 340W power the temperature stabilizes at 75 ° C (air temperature 24 ° C).
With 48V motor, I think a few tens of Watts more.
Thanks, I will not use v20.1C3 till the new release. I consider to build in a temp sensor, but that means loss of warranty.

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Re: TSDZ2 OSF for all displays, VLCD5-VLCD6-XH18, LCD3, 860C-850C-SW102.

Post by Elinx » Jan 12 2022 7:35am

labzoli wrote:
Jan 10 2022 5:37am
....I consider to build in a temp sensor, but that means loss of warranty.
You realize this is a Chinese motor? Mostly this means that the warranty is minimal and not free.
imho In that case you are better off if you add some relative easy mods to avoid this.
Like installing OSF, heat conductive pads, temperature sensor and extra bearings on the shaft.

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Re: TSDZ2 OSF for all displays, VLCD5-VLCD6-XH18, LCD3, 860C-850C-SW102.

Post by chilau2000 » Jan 14 2022 6:54am

I messaged PSWPOWER to see if they know which version controller is fitted to their drives, they didn't know.
Has anyone recently ordered from them and which version controller did you get ?

Thanks

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Re: TSDZ2 OSF for all displays, VLCD5-VLCD6-XH18, LCD3, 860C-850C-SW102.

Post by ptrj » Jan 14 2022 9:18am

Got my coaster brake 36v 250w tsdz2 3 weeks ago.
It has the old version of the controller. Asked the seller at pswpower before I ordered and they replyed with a picture of a old controller with a burnt mosfet. :D
Currently using it with v20.1c.3-lcd3 and had some issues with installing the temp sensor LM35.
But thanks to a post from 'plpetrov' I found an 5.127KOhm pull up resistor nect to the throttle input.

If I only knew erlier from the wiki.
Attachments
pull_up_resistor-throttle.jpg
pull_up_resistor-throttle.jpg (2.82 MiB) Viewed 1052 times

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Re: TSDZ2 OSF for all displays, VLCD5-VLCD6-XH18, LCD3, 860C-850C-SW102.

Post by chilau2000 » Jan 14 2022 10:12am

ptrj wrote:
Jan 14 2022 9:18am
Got my coaster brake 36v 250w tsdz2 3 weeks ago.
It has the old version of the controller. Asked the seller at pswpower before I ordered and they replyed with a picture of a old controller with a burnt mosfet. :D
Currently using it with v20.1c.3-lcd3 and had some issues with installing the temp sensor LM35.
But thanks to a post from 'plpetrov' I found an 5.127KOhm pull up resistor nect to the throttle input.

If I only knew erlier from the wiki.
Thanks

Can you tell the difference visually between new and old controllers ?

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Re: TSDZ2 OSF for all displays, VLCD5-VLCD6-XH18, LCD3, 860C-850C-SW102.

Post by Elinx » Jan 14 2022 11:50am

chilau2000 wrote:
Jan 14 2022 10:12am
.....

Can you tell the difference visually between new and old controllers ?
See the visual differences here

See for info about new controller there and there

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Re: TSDZ2 OSF for all displays, VLCD5-VLCD6-XH18, LCD3, 860C-850C-SW102.

Post by tr8 » Jan 14 2022 1:02pm

ptrj wrote:
Jan 14 2022 9:18am
But thanks to a post from 'plpetrov' I found an 5.127KOhm pull up resistor nect to the throttle input.
Can you please point me to plpetrov's post?
I tried last year to install the temperature sensors on my two TSDZ2. With the standard controller it worked immediately but with the controller for coaster brake I did not manage.

Thanks in advance
Rainer

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Re: TSDZ2 OSF for all displays, VLCD5-VLCD6-XH18, LCD3, 860C-850C-SW102.

Post by ptrj » Jan 14 2022 1:13pm

tr8 wrote:
Jan 14 2022 1:02pm
Can you please point me to plpetrov's post?
Rainer
viewtopic.php?t=93818&start=6250#p1583768

I just removed the resistor and now the temp sensor -LM35dz work.

I think that they disabled the throttle input for the coaster version since the pedals spins with the motor.

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Re: TSDZ2 OSF for all displays, VLCD5-VLCD6-XH18, LCD3, 860C-850C-SW102.

Post by tr8 » Jan 14 2022 2:14pm

ptrj wrote:
Jan 14 2022 1:13pm
I just removed the resistor and now the temp sensor -LM35dz work.
Thank you!
Is this the resistor you marked in the picture above?
Would be worth a try to get the sensor running.

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Re: TSDZ2 OSF for all displays, VLCD5-VLCD6-XH18, LCD3, 860C-850C-SW102.

Post by Mr.Flibble » Jan 14 2022 3:25pm

Thank you Mbrusa and everyone else for v20.1C.3-NEW, which I have been very much enjoying, however...............
A couple of strange thing have happened.
1: My 860c display toasted it's own screen (everything else fine, just no display) when I tried to manually calibrate the torque sensor without the motor plugged in.
2: The sw102 I am now using after the lack of screen got too annoying, has had a brain fart after not being used for a month.
It's changed itself to 4 power levels from the 8 it's set to, and wont change back.

Any thoughts?

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Re: TSDZ2 OSF for all displays, VLCD5-VLCD6-XH18, LCD3, 860C-850C-SW102.

Post by mbrusa » Jan 15 2022 8:29am

With OSF you take risks, not just for any firmware bugs.
Above all, a lot of attention is required during flashing operations, avoid flashing the controller with the display on, avoid connecting and disconnecting the various connectors with the display on.
I once, inadvertently, I unplugged 860C without turning it off, then it didn't turn on anymore.

In your case, I cannot know what the cause may be.
How did you manage to use 860C without connecting it to the motor?

Also for SW102 I have no idea, having never tried it.
I know that there are blocking problems in the configuration menu that can be fixed by removing the battery.
Have you tried to reprogram it and / or reset the parameters?

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Re: TSDZ2 OSF for all displays, VLCD5-VLCD6-XH18, LCD3, 860C-850C-SW102.

Post by Mr.Flibble » Jan 16 2022 6:06am

mbrusa wrote:
Jan 15 2022 8:29am
With OSF you take risks, not just for any firmware bugs.
Above all, a lot of attention is required during flashing operations, avoid flashing the controller with the display on, avoid connecting and disconnecting the various connectors with the display on.
I once, inadvertently, I unplugged 860C without turning it off, then it didn't turn on anymore.

In your case, I cannot know what the cause may be.
How did you manage to use 860C without connecting it to the motor?

Also for SW102 I have no idea, having never tried it.
I know that there are blocking problems in the configuration menu that can be fixed by removing the battery.
Have you tried to reprogram it and / or reset the parameters?
The 860c was only connected to the controller.
I have a feeling (based on not very much) that it was coincidence that it "popped" while I was calibrating, and would have done so anyway.
But I have no evidence to back this "feeling" up, other than 20 years as a IT/PC engineer, and you get a feeling for these things.

I haven't tried reprograming the SW102 yet, as I and am an Idiot and left my battery behind.

Thanks for answering, I was just wondering if they rang any bells with other people.......

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Re: TSDZ2 OSF for all displays, VLCD5-VLCD6-XH18, LCD3, 860C-850C-SW102.

Post by plpetrov » Jan 16 2022 4:49pm

tr8 wrote:
Jan 14 2022 2:14pm
ptrj wrote:
Jan 14 2022 1:13pm
I just removed the resistor and now the temp sensor -LM35dz work.
Thank you!
Is this the resistor you marked in the picture above?
Would be worth a try to get the sensor running.
Yes, that is the one. Just found some old photos from that time with the resistor and without it after the removal.
My motor is also the coaster brake version. Be very careful to program the controller for temperature sensor input and do not change it after. I remember my motor suddenly running at full power when switching from temperate sensor to throttle while troubleshooting.

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