"New" TSDZ2 with "old" controller ?

ben5763

1 mW
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Jun 4, 2021
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16
Hello,

Thank you for all the priceless info we can find on this forum !!

I intend to electrify my old mtb with a TSDZ2 motor. I've seen that TSDZ2 has a new controller since 2020, and actually some (not all?) sellers mention whether is is the new 2020 version.

I also intend to switch to OSF firmware, which is not (yet) possible on the new version. So will have to wait.... or...

I've seen we can buy "old" spare controllers on ebay/alib. This could be the solution. But can I mount a old version controller on a "new version" motor ? Looking at pictures of both controllers, the wiring seems to match...

Ben
 
ben5763 said:
... TSDZ2 has a new controller since 2020, and actually some (not all?) sellers mention whether is is the new 2020 version.

... OSF firmware, which is not (yet) possible on the new version. So will have to wait.... or...

.... can I mount a old version controller on a "new version" motor ? ....
Ben
imho Enerprof.de is problably the only store that sells the new controller version for sure.
if you buy the Tsdz2 from another (international) seller, there is a good chance you get the old version.
The only difference between old and new is the controller, so you can replace a new version for an old one.

OSF v2 is in development stage, so it is unsure if and when a working version will be published.
 
I thought so too, but I did extended search on aliexpress for prices and deliveries, and some items mention "new version" or "2020 version", like this one for exemple https://fr.aliexpress.com/item/32769107263.html.

Indeed I've seen that osf on new version is in developpement, but only starting. So If the motor I receive is a new one, I'll switch with an old controller waiting for new osf.

By the way, is it possible to differenciate old vs new controlers without removing it from the motor ?
 
2020 motors can come with either controller, the changes between the pre and later motors were mainly around the chainring side with 4 bolts rather than 3 on the plastic covers and a few other slight differences not really worthy of mentioning. The earlier move to a helical cut main gear was long back.
 
ben5763 said:
By the way, is it possible to differenciate old vs new controlers without removing it from the motor ?

Measure the voltage between GND and SWIM on the speed sensor connector : 5V = old controller, 0V = new controller.
 

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Fyi, I just received my 48v TSDZ2 from PswPower (German stock) : it is an old controller :D
 
Just wondering if pulling up the SWIM connection to +5V with an external resistor would enable the controller to be programmed ?
 
shimrod said:
Just wondering if pulling up the SWIM connection to +5V with an external resistor would enable the controller to be programmed ?
If you mean to program a new controller.
The answer is NO, because the new controller is complete renewed with another processor.
 
shimrod said:
Just wondering if pulling up the SWIM connection to +5V with an external resistor would enable the controller to be programmed ?
I believe the new controller is based on STM32 which uses a JTAG/SWM interface. Different pins, and I’m not sure if they’re in the speed sensor cable or whether you’d need to open up the TSDZ2 to get to them. And it’ll need a JTAG/SWD dongle and totally different software, of course. So when I heard about the new controller a week ago, I immediately bought another ‘old style’ STM8S TSDZ2 from pswpower for ebike #2 :)
 
-Pete- said:
....I believe the new controller is based on STM32 which uses a JTAG/SWM interface. Different pins,....
In that case that should be another new controller :wink:
What is the source of this info?
 
Elinx said:
-Pete- said:
....I believe the new controller is based on STM32 which uses a JTAG/SWM interface. Different pins,....
In that case that should be another new controller :wink:
What is the source of this info?
I read it somewhere, recently, but I'm not sure where. I'll keep looking, but perhaps I got it wrong.

Update: Ok, looks like I made a false assumption, it's an ARM core with SWD interface, but it's an Infineon XMC1302 (not STM32). I guess you knew that already Elinx :wink:
 
-Pete- said:
...
. it's an Infineon XMC1302 (not STM32). I guess you knew that already....
:wink:
We have on ES a topic about topic about development new OSF, which refer to Github with all the known info of the new controller.

But it seems that the new controller is still only supplied by the German Enerprof and not by other more internationally oriented sellers. So there is no need to speedup development for most people.
Also I had read the new controller stock FW is a lot more efficient compared to the old controller stock FW.
 
Elinx said:
-Pete- said:
...
. it's an Infineon XMC1302 (not STM32). I guess you knew that already....
:wink:
We have on ES a topic about topic about development new OSF, which refer to Github with all the known info of the new controller.

But it seems that the new controller is still only supplied by the German Enerprof and not by other more internationally oriented sellers. So there is no need to speedup development for most people.
Also I had read the new controller stock FW is a lot more efficient compared to the old controller stock FW.
The XMC1302 microcontroller has functional blocks specialised for motor control, so there will be much less for the firmware to do. But I'm very happy with the 'old' STM8S controller, it's amazing what the clever OSF people have done in software!
 
Hello everybody,

I just replaced the new (Infineon) controller to the old version with MBRUSA OSF software (I use this OSF version in my other bike for long time already).
Unfortunately, it does not work out as expected: the reading on the VLCD6 looks good when started up, but it seems not to start the motor properly. when trying to ride, the display shows E04 error.

Did anyone experience something similar?
 
sz_ac said:
.... it seems not to start the motor properly. when trying to ride, the display shows E04 error.
...
Error E04 does mean motor or wheel blocking and is mostly a mechanical issue
E04 will light up if there is current without rotation.

But because you replaced the controller:
It could be maybe a shorted FET on the controller
Or bad or wrong connection of the phase wires on the bare motor
 
Hello,

Problem solved: I accidentally mixed up two of the phase wires.

The new TSDZ2 motor works perfect with the old (ST-Micro) controller and OSF, the motor seems to be even a bit more powerful than the old one.
 
sz_ac said:
....I accidentally mixed up two of the phase wires.
.... OSF, the motor seems to be even a bit more powerful than the old one.
Thanks for the update

Just out of curiosity, besides power...
Are there othere differences in behaviour?
Like sound, smoothness, cadence or other.
 
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