Tesla model S plaid motor 30 lbs, 400 hp perfect high power ebike motor?

MitchJi

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Hi,
Is this the perfect high power ebike or emotorcyle, or EV conversion motor?

https://youtu.be/kUmkbzQ-BS0u
 
Some motor chat at 8:52

A Carbon-fiber wrapped rotor allows a tighter air-gap and ultra-high RPM's up to 200-MPH on a one-speed drivetrain. 20,000-RPM's from the motor mentioned.
 
Video from dragtimes talking to a Tesla Engineer who said that the motors weigh 30 lbs. and are can put over 400hp. Brooks said that more than one third of 1k and the engineer said they are limited by the batteries..

30 lbs is probably in the ballpark of twp Astro 3220’s with Matt’s drives. Definitely worth considering for Luke’s deathbike or some Zero special editions.

https://youtu.be/S4KmRZ28hdw
 
Mo information largely based on new tweets by Elon:
https://www.tesmanian.com/blogs/tesmanian-blog/tesla-will-increase-torque-max-rpm-in-innovative-carbon-wrapped-motor-for-roadster
 
coleasterling said:
Zero chance this motor is 30lbs. None. Maybe they are talking about the rotor?
It's a break through. Elon announced on-stage that you could hold it in one hand. A Tesla engineer told a YouTuber the weight 30 lbs and power ~400hp. I'd be happy to place a bet, contingent on Sandy Munro's teardown, but I'd feel guilty taking your money.
 
Its always a trial watching Musks Tesla presentations to filter out the facts from the predictions, speculation, teasers, and plain BS.
Did anyone figure out the rear dual motor drive train ? For torque vectoring it must have separate motor to wheel transmissions,.so dual gear trains ...9.7 :1 reduction ?
Which type of motor is being used..induction, or the PMSR motor tech as in the M3 ?
Where have those large motor inverter assemblies been relocated to ?
Battery configuration ? Cell type ? Capacity ?
Edit..
A few answers..
Motors are PMSR ..(obviously much modified compared to the M3 design)
..... And no way a complete motor with stator weighs 30 lb !
Each motor has its own Drive train gear set.
 
Single helical stage per motor per rear wheel to eliminate the differential is fantastic. Differentials are vestigial internal combustion components.

The rear power units from Plaid MS are going to change the hot-rodding world. Perfect traction control thrust maximization per rear wheel, and the right amount of thrust for most hot-rods running it to no longer matter if the front wheels are powered or not on your 60ft time.

Its the most excited I've been for a new vehicle release in a long time. :bolt: :thumb: :mrgreen:
 
liveforphysics said:
Single helical stage per motor per rear wheel to eliminate the differential is fantastic. Differentials are vestigial internal combustion components.

The rear power units from Plaid MS are going to change the hot-rodding world. Perfect traction control thrust maximization per rear wheel, and the right amount of thrust for most hot-rods running it to no longer matter if the front wheels are powered or not on your 60ft time.

Its the most excited I've been for a new vehicle release in a long time. :bolt: :thumb: :mrgreen:

Appears to be a pair of two stage reduction gears and motors at the rear just like the single two stage reduction set and single motor the front has, and the above is quite high praise for a drive system using 12 gears in mesh. "multiple stages of loss causing levers as a crotch for a wrong motor choice". -ei with a 20 000+ rpm motor(s) "you're still doing it wrong if you're adding stages of loss, inefficiency, noise, wear-parts, failure modes, back-lash etc".

-Good to have you back Luke, i missed you man. :D
 
I bet it's just the rotor that's 30 lbs.

Tesla Plaid Rotor.JPG

Just the reduction gears look like 30 lbs. The whole motor has to be much more.

Tesla Plaid Motor1.JPG
 
https://www.teslarati.com/tesla-model-s-plaid-dominates-pikes-peak-video/

In a later tweet, Unplugged Performance noted that while a more thorough data analysis would certainly come later, the fact that the Model S Plaid completed the shortened course in 6:57.220 suggests that it may have been able to finish the full run up Pikes Peak in about 9:20. That’s an impressive time overall, and one that is already competitive with some of the most insane, bespoke vehicles that tackle the mountain every year. For now, however, Randy Pobst and the Unplugged Performance team, together with the group of Tesla volunteers that supported this year’s Pikes Peak attempt, could breathe for a bit knowing that the Model S Plaid does have what it takes to compete and dominate in one of the most dangerous racing events in the motorsport world.
 
toolman2 said:
liveforphysics said:
Single helical stage per motor per rear wheel to eliminate the differential is fantastic. Differentials are vestigial internal combustion components.

The rear power units from Plaid MS are going to change the hot-rodding world. Perfect traction control thrust maximization per rear wheel, and the right amount of thrust for most hot-rods running it to no longer matter if the front wheels are powered or not on your 60ft time.

Its the most excited I've been for a new vehicle release in a long time. :bolt: :thumb: :mrgreen:

Appears to be a pair of two stage reduction gears and motors at the rear just like the single two stage reduction set and single motor the front has, and the above is quite high praise for a drive system using 12 gears in mesh. "multiple stages of loss causing levers as a crotch for a wrong motor choice". -ei with a 20 000+ rpm motor(s) "you're still doing it wrong if you're adding stages of loss, inefficiency, noise, wear-parts, failure modes, back-lash etc".

-Good to have you back Luke, i missed you man. :D

I've missed you too my friend!

So excited to feel the pull of the Plaid tomorrow! Woot!
 
So excited to feel the pull of the Plaid tomorrow! Woot!
I'm excited to hear your reaction!

Just the reduction gears look like 30 lbs. The whole motor has to be much more.
You count the reduction gears as part of the motor?!
 
[/quote]
MitchJi said:
Just the reduction gears look like 30 lbs. The whole motor has to be much more.
You count the reduction gears as part of the motor?!
Maybe just being consistent ..?.. since you did when comparing to the Astro’s..
MitchJi said:
30 lbs is probably in the ballpark of twp Astro 3220’s with Matt’s drives. ....
The complete dual motor assy for the rear drive .
fjsKBZ.jpg
 
Under 40 lbs. We should get a exact figure when Luke mounts one on the deathbike.

Fascinating discussion about the.massive improvements over the M3. If they had had the Plaid longer they would have been able to improve it further!
Pikes Peak 2021 UP Tesla Model S Plaid - Discussion With UP's Ben Schaffer
https://youtu.be/L-CgwWIr39U
 
MitchJi said:
You count the reduction gears as part of the motor?!

When you compare a motor that requires reduction gears against motors that don't, it's unrealistic and disingenuous not to include the gears.
 
I've got to enjoy a few hours of driving a Plaid now, including the drag strip launch mode.

O

M

G

The front end lifts up so hard it feels like you're going to wheelie over backwards (I'm sure both wheels are actually on the ground).

1G free fall in vacuum is 9.8m/s^2, or 22mph per second, or 44mph in 2 second, 66mph in 3 seconds.
This car is significantly faster acceleration than this, and wildly for a lot longer than 66mph. Even at highway speeds when you pin it, you feel the front feel like its going to wheelie over on itself, and you feel all 4 wheels held at the ideal slip% ratio for maximum thrust and skating for traction. The TCS is so good you don't ever had to pedal it or lift, but you do need to very actively steer the front wheels to keep it in your lane, which you can feel are lightly skating over the ground at ideal slip%.

I was a hotrod builder drag racer for a long time, and my dad and my grandpa all built hotrods and drag raced, and this is faster than everything we ever made, while feeling silent and smooth and sipping watts to commute with the lowest drag coefficient. None of my families ICE drag cars ever gave me G-force nausea or sustained over 1G for anything near this long.

The acceleration is so good it feels like the earths gravity re-orients 90deg to be constructive with the axis you're traveling, and then you're in the fastest car of your life on top of that. I didn't get the reason for the yoke steering wheel until launching it, but its designed well to be handle grips for maximum pulling hand force against it, as the seat supports your back but your hands still have to support 40-60lbs of arm mass getting a 1.4G multiplier you gotta support with your hands, and a wheel would cause more hand fatigue.

It makes driving somewhere feel like a thrill you can't wait to do again rather than a chore. Best bang for the buck ever made on 4 wheels.

Unlimited Love,
-Luke
 
Plaid: 760kW / 2162kg = 0.35kW/kg

For comparison:

My NA ICE racecar is 129kW / 793kg = 0.16kW/kg
0.35kW/kg * 793kg = 279kW target
279kW target / 129kW current = 2.2x increase
possible with substantial financial investment (forged rods, N2O and/or FI) and maintenance/longevity compromise

120kg deathbike+rider
0.35kW/kg * 120kg = 42kW
possible if custom built with extended swingarm or as low-CG recumbent
Liquid-cooled LR XL Big Block might take 250A: 42kW / 250A = 166V = 18kg bare LiPo
 
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