FLIPSKY new 20s 100A tiny controller (vesc based)

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atkforever   10 W

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FLIPSKY new 20s 100A tiny controller (vesc based)

Post by atkforever » Sep 20 2021 8:11am

Any thought about this controller sold by flipsky? I mean 99$ for a tiny controller, compatible with VESCTOOL, doing foc, capable of 7kw continuous power, where is the trap?

Sadly, it's on presale so no return of experience yet. I'm gonna get one and be your guinea pig

Specs:
Voltage:14-84V (4-20S)
Continuous Current:100A
Max Current:120A
Firmware: VESC_TOOL3.0(firmware5.2), firmware upload not available
ERPM:150000
Control Interface Ports:USB,CAN,UART
BEC:5V@1A
Modes:FOC (sinusoidal)
Supported Sensors:ABI,HALL,AS5047,AS5048A
Input Set Support:PPM,ADC,NRF,UART
Wire Size: 12AWG
Size:L85mm*W50.7mm*H33.8mm
Programmable: Yes
Regenerative Capacity: Yes


https://flipsky.net/collections/electro ... controller

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DanGT86   100 kW

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Re: FLIPSKY new 20s 100A tiny controller (vesc based)

Post by DanGT86 » Sep 20 2021 9:17am

First thing that jumps out at me is 12awg wire and 100A continuous. Seems too small for that much current.

Looks like a nice convenient package to try out a VESC system but based on the wire and the overall size of the unit I feel like their claims are a bit overblown.

I do like that its in an ebike controller style enclosure rather than just the exposed VESC board like a lot of them.

Looking forward to your review if you get one.

SlowCo   10 MW

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Re: FLIPSKY new 20s 100A tiny controller (vesc based)

Post by SlowCo » Sep 20 2021 9:49am

Interesting controller. Hope it will live up to its specs and stay that price.

BenMoore   100 mW

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Re: FLIPSKY new 20s 100A tiny controller (vesc based)

Post by BenMoore » Sep 20 2021 10:47pm

Just (pre-)ordered one also. FlipSky state that they'll post them out at the end of September. Will report back here.
eBike 1: Crystalyte dual-wind 408/4012 in 20" wheel, 72V LiPo, 20A controller
eBike 2: Avanti Electra (axial flux motor) overvolted - too noisy!
eBike 3: Bafang BPM, Modded ecrazyman controller 50A
eBike 4: 2kW RC motor belt drive with wye/delta switching? - under construction...

atkforever   10 W

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Re: FLIPSKY new 20s 100A tiny controller (vesc based)

Post by atkforever » Sep 21 2021 3:48am

I've contacted them asking if 100amps would stand for phase amps, they replied it's battery current.

Specs are strong, we'll see.

mxlemming   10 kW

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Re: FLIPSKY new 20s 100A tiny controller (vesc based)

Post by mxlemming » Sep 21 2021 6:08am

This looks really good and flipsky aren't jokers...

The thing that stands out to me as problematic is it's listed 75100 which implies it's based on the 75300 which uses components not capable of 20s.

That needs clarifying. When you get it, please rip apart and get photos of the innards., that will quickly tell the full story.
Hold my beer while I divide by zero :flame:

badgineer   10 W

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Re: FLIPSKY new 20s 100A tiny controller (vesc based)

Post by badgineer » Sep 21 2021 6:59am

Wow. Awesome little thing!

So yeah, first of all the specs are contradictory. 75V in the name and title, and then 84V in the description....

But even if it's "just" a 75V max VESC, and it only does half the advertised Amps, its still a very good deal imho. The second best deal in ready-made-vesc-world would be flipskys own 7550, which is twice the price and the same basic specs.

Please keep us informed, and post pictures of its guts :)

Thanks for posting about it, you just saved me 100$ :)

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sdobbie   100 W

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Re: FLIPSKY new 20s 100A tiny controller (vesc based)

Post by sdobbie » Sep 21 2021 9:49am

This is very similar to the vesc I am designing to be commercially available. I used a flipsky vesc controller for a few days and wasn't even using it at near its rated current and something to do with the power supply to the mcu failed. It would be interesting to see if this controller uses drv chips. If it does use them, probably best to stay away.

john61ct   100 GW

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Re: FLIPSKY new 20s 100A tiny controller (vesc based)

Post by john61ct » Sep 21 2021 11:16am


badgineer wrote: 75V in the name and title, and then 84V in the description
20S li-ion

84V max for charging purposes

75V pack is just a rounded nominal


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Re: FLIPSKY new 20s 100A tiny controller (vesc based)

Post by badgineer » Sep 21 2021 3:14pm

Hi.
john61ct wrote:
Sep 21 2021 11:16am
75V pack is just a rounded nominal
I still think there's a mistake somewhere.
1) Normally the rounded value is 72V / 74V, haven't seen 75v until now for 20s, but who am I?
2) Flipsky 75*** vesc implementations (and not only flipsky, but also the official vesc too) are all 75V absolute max voltage. ( <16s )
3) In every other vesc implementation I've seen the absolute max Voltage is proemniently displayed in the specs. Here ... which is it? It can't be 84V because thats a fully charged 20s pack and then it would go pufff at 20s...

Don't get me wrong, I'd love it to be 20s capable with ample headroom, as tiny and inexpensive as it is, weather-sealed and capable of doing 100A without even getting warm.... but in my experience, if something seems too good to be true, it usually is. And here there's inconsistencies in the pre-release specs to begin with. I'm not getting my hopes super high, though I *am* excited. Even if it's a 75V absolute max and "only" 50A capable, it's still nice.

PS: I asked flipsky whats the actual max voltage, will post if they reply.

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atkforever   10 W

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Re: FLIPSKY new 20s 100A tiny controller (vesc based)

Post by atkforever » Sep 21 2021 5:07pm

If they stick to the spec and it's really capable of 100amps cont, what would be the max phase current?

MorbidlyObeseKoala   100 W

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Re: FLIPSKY new 20s 100A tiny controller (vesc based)

Post by MorbidlyObeseKoala » Sep 21 2021 5:24pm

Very interested to
BenMoore wrote:
Sep 20 2021 10:47pm
Just (pre-)ordered one also. FlipSky state that they'll post them out at the end of September. Will report back here.
Please report back once it shows up, very interested at that price point. This would beat out the comparable Kelly controller by a little money, looks like a smaller footprint too

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Re: FLIPSKY new 20s 100A tiny controller (vesc based)

Post by john61ct » Sep 21 2021 7:55pm

OK I was making assumptions about that 84V, 75V÷20S is 3.75V figured close enough to li-ion nominal.

So maybe the 84V is just an error on their part.

district9prawn   1 kW

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Re: FLIPSKY new 20s 100A tiny controller (vesc based)

Post by district9prawn » Sep 21 2021 9:03pm

No way its capable of continuous 100A battery current.

Curious to see if it is really 20s capable.
Neu 8057 6kW left hand drive hardtail with 18 fet Vesc: viewtopic.php?f=6&t=96754

badgineer   10 W

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Re: FLIPSKY new 20s 100A tiny controller (vesc based)

Post by badgineer » Sep 22 2021 1:32am

john61ct wrote:
Sep 21 2021 7:55pm
OK I was making assumptions about that 84V, 75V÷20S is 3.75V figured close enough to li-ion nominal.
Well, good news!
Flipsky replied to my inquiry and it seems it really is 20s capable. So you were quite a bit closer to the truth than me!
As this esc is based on vesc (Benjamin Vedder esc opening source) 75, we call it 75**. The max voltage can be 90V during our test, safe continuous 84V.

We use 6pcs mosfets for this esc, MDP10N027,MagnaChip. As the chips, drivers and mosfets keep up rising, we are trying to find some replacements with similar specification performance. Thanks.
MDP10N027 is 100V 2.8mOhm rdson TO220 FET, quite nice. Would have probably picked something similar myself :)

so it looks really promising!

Br,
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atkforever   10 W

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Re: FLIPSKY new 20s 100A tiny controller (vesc based)

Post by atkforever » Sep 22 2021 4:25am

Interesting, looks like nice fets.

Pulsed drain current : 480A. Does that mean we can expect values around 300A for max motor current ?

badgineer   10 W

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Re: FLIPSKY new 20s 100A tiny controller (vesc based)

Post by badgineer » Sep 22 2021 6:15am

atkforever wrote:
Sep 22 2021 4:25am
Pulsed drain current : 480A. Does that mean we can expect values around 300A for max motor current ?
Hi. Doesn't mean that, imho. Don't read too much into the spec sheet of the FET.

Important stuff that I wanted to highlight:
-> pretty good rdson, there are better but it's still good, and decent total gate charge -> will have decent/good efficiency.
-> 100V Vds max (just so we have some sort of "confirmation" of the 20s capability. If it was a 75 Vds max fet, that would effectively make it a 16S max controller, like the FSESC 7550)

The details depend on implementation of the ESC.
for example the max phase current
-> is the max it can do without burning,
-> and also the max it can measure (so limited by the value of the shunt that is used to measure phase current, and by the input range of the component that measures the voltage drop, assuming I understand how the measuring of the phase current works).

Br,
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Re: FLIPSKY new 20s 100A tiny controller (vesc based)

Post by Ecyclist » Sep 22 2021 12:28pm

Even if it is "just" 18 or 16S it would be perfect for my e-bike. There is nothing close for $99. It is actually very small.
Only 3 3/8 X 2 X 1 3/8.
Don't expect from life to be easy and then it will be.
My builds:
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Re: FLIPSKY new 20s 100A tiny controller (vesc based)

Post by john61ct » Sep 22 2021 1:23pm

Actually revisiting the OP, I see 20S right in the specs, so I don't feel so smart Image

True FOC control is a given with VESC right?

viewtopic.php?t=105139

The next question, for me anyway I don't care about speed, how does the unit put out at low rpm torque scenarios, starting from stopped with a heavy load facing up a long steep hill?

And in that context, likely running at a lower voltage would help with that as well as efficiency / range?

Maybe 52V on 26" wheels?

Or would that 100A limit (is that phase amps?) mean higher the voltage the better even if I do not want a top speed over 25mph or so.

Thinking QS138 vs 205 at the highest T count available...

badgineer   10 W

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Re: FLIPSKY new 20s 100A tiny controller (vesc based)

Post by badgineer » Sep 22 2021 2:22pm

john61ct wrote:
Sep 22 2021 1:23pm
The next question, for me anyway I don't care about speed, how does the unit put out at low rpm torque scenarios, starting from stopped with a heavy load facing up a long steep hill?
I am under the impression motor control is defined by the software, so most VESC based designs should be quite similar in that regard. FOC will probably have good efficiency.
Also, some motors are easier to be driven than others. The high T count you mentioned would be easier to drive because of higher inductance, for example.
john61ct wrote:
Sep 22 2021 1:23pm
And in that context, likely running at a lower voltage would help with that as well as efficiency / range?
Nope, don't think it has anything to do with efficiency. At least not of the motor.

The only losses that are decreased if you vary (increase) voltage while keeping the same power and gearing+kV the same, are the tiny conduction losses through the battery and phase wires, and through the controller mosfets. In some cases, if this is a bottleneck (for example overheating phase wires through the axle of a hub) this can make a difference.

Actually, it's a bad idea precisely because of efficiency to run a controller designed for 74V at 37V. a 100V FET will have a higher rdson than a similar 60V FET, and thus more losses.

Play with the grin motor simulator. Take 2 motors wound differently, adjust voltage and amps so you get the same torque and speed, and you will have the same efficiency too.

Motor choice will influence electrical efficiency much more than what "tricks" you might do with Voltage.

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john61ct   100 GW

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Re: FLIPSKY new 20s 100A tiny controller (vesc based)

Post by john61ct » Sep 22 2021 2:34pm

But in these discussion it is often stated that there are big efficiency losses when the usual average RPM is much lower than the top speed.

That the voltage / winding Kv should be selected so that the top possible speed is only a little higher than the top speed the user actually wants.

In motor selection, I am looking for that heavy/steep torque heat shedding ability (without gearing) far more important than efficiency.

Will likely have multiple motors also, differing attributes to complement each other.

badgineer   10 W

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Re: FLIPSKY new 20s 100A tiny controller (vesc based)

Post by badgineer » Sep 22 2021 2:42pm

john61ct wrote:
Sep 22 2021 2:34pm
But in these discussion it is often stated that there are big efficiency losses when the usual average RPM is much lower than the top speed.
Of course. if you're spinning a motor say 3x slower than it is designed to spin for optimal efficiency, for the same power, you'll need to push 3x more current through it and thus get 3x higher conduction losses.

That's why I compared the 2 imaginary systems "keeping the same power and gearing+kV the same". By gearing+Kv I meant top speed.

But getting into this kind of motor details is perhaps a topic for a different thread :)

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Re: FLIPSKY new 20s 100A tiny controller (vesc based)

Post by bhartshorn » Sep 22 2021 5:40pm

Been out of this game a little while so I can't tell - is there any indication whether this controller is based on VESC4 or VESC6? I'm guessing based on the fact that VESC6 isn't mentioned anywhere and the price is quite low that it's VESC4 based...

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Re: FLIPSKY new 20s 100A tiny controller (vesc based)

Post by Ecyclist » Sep 22 2021 6:02pm

john61ct wrote:
Sep 22 2021 1:23pm


I don't care about speed
Everyone cares about speed sooner or later.
Good transposon can take care of both speed and torque.
So it happened I'm working on something like that for a bike.
I build one before and the next one will be for more power. :thumb:
That controller and a 5 kW outrunner should be a good match.
Don't expect from life to be easy and then it will be.
My builds:
Avian with hypocycloidal drive https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 2#p1318056
2016 GNG extreme drive https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 28&t=82252

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Re: FLIPSKY new 20s 100A tiny controller (vesc based)

Post by district9prawn » Sep 22 2021 8:48pm

bhartshorn wrote:
Sep 22 2021 5:40pm
Been out of this game a little while so I can't tell - is there any indication whether this controller is based on VESC4 or VESC6? I'm guessing based on the fact that VESC6 isn't mentioned anywhere and the price is quite low that it's VESC4 based...
Due to the higher input voltage, it will most likely use low side current shunts and discrete gate drivers, as opposed to the DRV chip in the v4 and v6 hardware.
john61ct wrote:
Sep 22 2021 2:34pm
But in these discussion it is often stated that there are big efficiency losses when the usual average RPM is much lower than the top speed.
The controller losses will not be different when running at say 25% and 50% duty, assuming phase current is the same. Switching frequency is always the same and if the phase current is the same mosfet conduction losses will also be similar.
Neu 8057 6kW left hand drive hardtail with 18 fet Vesc: viewtopic.php?f=6&t=96754

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