TSDZ2 with TMM4 sensor from IDBike

Hi

I'm new to the forum and I would like to know if someone has tried to use the TMM4 sensor from IDBike o the factory Tongsheng software or on another open source one, from what I understood there's severals!?

I also would like to know if someone could give me the center distance between the pinion and the bottom bracket shaft?

and finally but not least

If someone could help me measuring 3 tooth of the pinion on the tangent line (see attachment) so that I can know the module of the gear or simply giving the module of the gear if already known?

If this information already exists on the forum I apology!

I want to do a project but before commit myself to spend 500€ I want to know if it will work on my project!!

Thanks everyone

xelder said:

... tried to use the TMM4 sensor from IDBike o the factory Tongsheng software .....
... center distance between the pinion and the bottom bracket shaft?
... measuring 3 tooth of the pinion on the tangent line (see attachment) ....

Click to expand...

For what I know there is no reason to use an alternative torquesensor with the Tsdz2.
The build in sensor of the Tsdz2 isn't perfect, but good enough, so I think nobody has some experience with the TMM4
Edit: ..... because such a torquesensor as TMM4 only does work with a hub motor

For measuring all the sizes you want to know, you maybe can use the drawings of Wapous

Hello

Thanks a lot for your reply and help Elinx, the work of Wapous helped a lot on the mechanics!!

I have to change the sensor because I'm trying to develop a BB gear system that will occupy the space were the main gear and sensor are! It will be a 8 speed closed system with electronic shifting!

I will try to substitute the main gear with a ring gear and invert the motor direction, that's why I need to adapt the dropout sensor TMM4 because I don't have anywhere to located and I can't use BB cadence/torque sensor because I have a special sindle, only on factory production that would be viable to make this change.

I don't know how many open source codes exist for the TSDZ2, I found Casainho work and tried to private contact him but with no luck and I was thinking on adapting it to use the TMM4 sensor if possible!

I would like to have the motor and gear system connected by BLE, but I don't know if there's already a bluetooth possibility on casainho work?...

I'm a designer and I don't know how to program, although I can read a little bit of code...I'm trying to find someone that can help me!

Cheers

xelder said:

.....
I have to change the sensor because I'm trying to develop a BB gear system that will occupy the space were the main gear and sensor are! It will be a 8 speed closed system with electronic shifting!....
... adapting it to use the TMM4 sensor if possible!
... BLE, but I don't know if there's already a bluetooth possibility ...

Click to expand...

Impressive target :thumb:

Casainho is busy with a lot of other projects, so don't count too much on him.
For all display's there is the newer mbrusa version, based on the bluetooth version of mspider65 (for stock display only)

Both are updated recently.
mbrusa
mspider65

For replacing torque sensor and cadence sensor you are dependent of the signalvalues of it.
Maybe some calculation corrections are needed. No guarantee it will work.
Edit: It can not work with a midmotor

FYI:
Wapous experimented already with some mechanical changes in the past.
Think about it that his drawings are not that precise for making real modifications.
So you need to measure the real sizes on Tsdz2 first.

xelder said:

that's why I need to adapt the dropout sensor TMM4

Click to expand...

?! I don't understand your aim. You want to place the gear system in the BB like the Pinion?!



But where you will place the motor then?! For the TMM4 you can use a hub motor only, as the middrive motor would cause a torque signal on the TMM4, as it pulls the chain in the same way as the rider does by pedaling.
Substracting the theoretical motor-caused torque in consideration of the motor current and the recently used gear to get the riders effort is not reliable, I guess...

regards
stancecoke

stancecoke said:

..... hub motor only, as the middrive motor would cause a torque signal on the TMM4, as it pulls the chain in the same way as the rider does by pedaling.....

Click to expand...

....... Ofcourse, did not thought about that when answering the first question. (I have edited my comments.)

Thanks Elinx for all the help. I'll check the info you've pointed!
The TMM4 reads the torque of the chain when you pedal...but I guess you already figure it out!

Regarding the step from Wapous there's errors starting on the gears, when I count the image on google there's only 91 tooths on the main and he has 95 tooths, and the center distance it's uncertain until now but Inventor indicates for 91x10 M1.25 63.125mm center distance...I'll measure when I got the motor.

By the way does anyone knows the difference between this to between the bolts version and without?
Regarding the gear system it doesn't have to do with pinion...I'll post some images when I have the prototype!

Thanks

Sorry the main gear from Wapous it's correct 91Z...to much stuff!!

xelder said:

The TMM4 reads the torque of the chain when you pedal

Click to expand...

The sensor detects the force on the chain, but it can't know, if the force is caused by the riders effort, or by the motor, if it's a middrive. So the motor will accelerate itself

regards
stancecoke

xelder said:

....The TMM4 reads the torque of the chain when you pedal...but I guess you already figure it out!
....
By the way does anyone knows the difference between this to between the bolts version and without?...

Click to expand...

I don't know how you plan to use the tsdz2 and TMM4 for your project, but with a traditional mount you could not use such a torquesensor with a midmotor. I have edited my earlier comments after stancecoke woke me up :wink:

imho it is the difference between the 2020 version and the older one.
Mechanical no changes inside.
The controller could be different (from Enerprof for sure) and not flashable with OSF.

Hi

Stancecoke and Elinx you are both right, I went back to check the info on IDBike and sensor it's for hub gears only!

Now I have one more thing to resolve...I need to find a BB torque and cadence sensor for a 22mm spindle or adapt the existing sensor by redoing a smaller cadence sensor since the spindle it's not very difficult to adapt...this is a mess :-(

If anyone have ideas are welcome!!

Thanks