RC motors and ESC's ... Plug and Play ?

Hillhater

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Sydney ..(Hilly part !) .. Australia/ Down under !
I an leaning towards one of Keplers excellent AFD systems and doing a bit of "due diligence" research.. so forgive me if this has already been discussed (point me to the answers) , or if i am asking a dumb question.
The kepler package is designed around an RC drive and ESC, but from reading around , it is apparent that these sensor-less drives may not be 100% suitable for these "traction" type applications, and require the attentions of technical expertise that i dont posses. I dont mind getting dirty and i like a challenge, but i do know my limitations on the electronics side of things :?
. There is much talk of "poor synchronisation" , gluing magnets, timing adjustment, additional heat sinks, installing hall sensors, DIY throttleisers, and frequent "magic smoke" from failed ESC's. :shock:
Now , i know nothing is perfect, and everything is a compromise ..ie, ( FAST, RELIABLE, CHEAP .... pick any 2 , because you cannot have all 3 at once !)..and i dont want a street missile, just a reliable, compact & lightweight , "hill assist"
.....but my question is basically :----can i expect to find a RC motor & ESC that will run a 1-2kW traction drive reliably without needing the Ebike equivalent of an F1 pit crew to set up and maintain ?? .... (and not generate expensive "magic smoke" ! :lol: )
IE, .. are these RC drives truly "plug and play" or can i expect to be on a steep learning curve ?
 
I doubt it's a question any of us would feel confident in answering, that's all.

Using an RC type brushless motor and controller on an ebike means operating them outside their design spec, as they are not designed to run high torque at low speed. This isn't to say that some motor/controller combinations aren't up to the job, but there is a mass of evidence that points towards cheaper controllers, in particular, being pretty vulnerable to failure when used like this.

What we do know is that some of the expensive controllers, notably the Castle Creations range, are more robust than others, but that doesn't mean they are just 'plug and play' reliable and doesn't mean that some cheap controllers may not be OK, either.

What we're doing is largely experimental, so as long as you approach the project with a view (and budget!) that things may go wrong at first then you should be all right. The best starting point for what you want to do is to just copy what works for Kepler. At least that way you've got a better chance of something that works right out of the box.

Jeremy
 
*edit. Jeremy posted seconds before I hit submit, and said mostly the same thing. Lol


If you pick the castle creations hv160 from Matt, load it up with extra caps, and most importantly, pick a motor with a lot of inductance and resistance, you could have a simple and likely reliable setup with good performance everywhere but starting from a stop.

If you don't wana have to think about it, just copy exactly whatever tested reliable combo kepler recommends. And keep the battery leads short!
 
Hillhater said:
and i dont want a street missile, just a reliable, compact & lightweight , "hill assist"
.....but my question is basically :----can i expect to find a RC motor & ESC that will run a 1-2kW traction drive reliably without needing the Ebike equivalent of an F1 pit crew to set up and maintain ?? .... (and not generate expensive "magic smoke" ! :lol: )
IE, .. are these RC drives truly "plug and play" or can i expect to be on a steep learning curve ?
Keplers system is excellent with your explained parameters. If you really are only using to flatten a few hills and use a small battery pack I don't think there would be a better system. You can even take it mostly off very quickly if you wanted to go for a ride without it. If I felt I could deal with my road bike over my commute I think I'd already have bought one since I could ride my commute with it and take the mount/controller/motor off really quickly and remove the battery wherever I had that and I'd be off on a group ride in a few minutes without a cheating motor :wink:

I had a similar setup on one of my recumbents before I gave it away the bike because I just couldn't deal with the bike part of it.
Custom Mount *ugh*
Hyperion Motor
Castle Controller (I only used a ~50amp one myself and usually pulled at most 300 watts from the battery)
Throttleizer and throttle or Servo test and extra capacitors
SHORT Battery->controller leads!
Good quality connectors (I used andersons)

The wonderful thing about the outrunner friction drives that swing or slide onto the tire after starting is the motor is spinning up before it engages the wheel which makes it nicer on everything and I think leads to less synch issues. I always would actually get up to speed or at least a good clip before using it which probably made it even easier on the controller and motor. I never had any issue with my setup except it was too easy to just grab a little bit of assist even on the flats when I was slogging along.
 
OK, thanks for the reply s guys, ... i guess the answer is then Its...." plug and BE PREPARED TO play" ........( with a soldering iron !!) :lol: :lol:

How much does hall sensors in the motor change the game ?
Are there ESC's for "sensored" motors ?, or is that just the key to enable the step to a "proper" speed controller and (possibly) better reliability ?

I guess i have to come to terms with the concept of "disposable" ESC's !! ( lucky they are small and light so i can carry a few spares ! ) :wink: :lol:
 
Hillhater said:
OK, thanks for the reply s guys, ... i guess the answer is then Its...." plug and BE PREPARED TO play" ........( with a soldering iron !!) :lol: :lol:

How much does hall sensors in the motor change the game ?
Are there ESC's for "sensored" motors ?, or is that just the key to enable the step to a "proper" speed controller and (possibly) better reliability ?

I guess i have to come to terms with the concept of "disposable" ESC's !! ( lucky they are small and light so i can carry a few spares ! ) :wink: :lol:


Fitting Hall sensors to the smaller motors is fiddly, but very effective at getting good low speed pulling power. With Hall sensors fitted you can use pretty much any of the big ebike controllers at this power level, making things like throttle connection, ebrake, regeneration, supply current limiting etc easy to do using 'standard' ebike parts. At this power level it's probably cheaper to go down this route than the RC controller route, particularly if you want good reliability. The downside is that the Halls would really need to be fitted internally to fit with this drive system and this is a fiddly job on this size of motor (but quite do-able, I've done a few now).

Jeremy
 
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