Optimistic Kelly

Electric Motors and Controllers
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dan974   1 kW

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Re: Optimistic Kelly

Post by dan974 » Apr 11 2014 9:02am

crossbreak wrote:I could test the Kelly now. Does not work as expected. The most reason i bought it was that it has "Torque Mode Throttle" available in Setup. But that is no real Torque mode Throttle. It's a Speed throttle. It's not as twitchy as the Infineons and X8m06c Speed throttles, but still no torque throttle :roll: An Infineon with a good throttle mapper/tamer isn't worse than this.

BUT what concerns me most: If i let go the throttle (zero throttle) after Full Throttle , it does NOT REDUCE TORQUE INSTANTLY!!! WTF???!?!? Even the cheapest controllers response faster on Zero Throttle :evil:

I programmed it to FASTEST Throttle Response. What a waste of time :roll:

you swear kelly controller but you did not even give all the settings to help you not even the model...did not tell if you tried balanced mode, if you adjust your throttle range (starting and ending) regarding the setup I use only 1/4 of the throttle to get the full range so I don't have to overtwist my wrist, which throttle sensor type you use in the software, max current...low and high threshold...



what do you intend with partial info ? right to Fany if you need help, we don't even know which one you're using , try to use it not with empty load...

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crossbreak   100 MW

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Re: Optimistic Kelly

Post by crossbreak » Apr 11 2014 9:25am

For comparison:

Greentime x8m06c sensorless 15Fet



BMS-Battery x8m06c sensorless 12Fet



Infineon sensorless EB312

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Re: Optimistic Kelly

Post by gwhy! » Apr 11 2014 9:27am

this mirrors some of the findings that my colleague found.. all available settings were tried but reverted back to using a modded infineon 12fet as it proved to be a much "better" controller ( especially for the price ) . I have no personal experience with the Kelly controllers and would love to get hold of one to test for myself ( maybe soon )

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Re: Optimistic Kelly

Post by crossbreak » Apr 11 2014 9:31am

dan974 wrote:what do you intend with partial info ? right to Fany if you need help, we don't even know which one you're using , try to use it not with empty load...
As said in the video, i used the brake as load and it is a KBS-X Controller. As written in my post I programmed Torque Throttle to fastest throttle response. The rest is stock setting. Should I change anything? Do the other settings influence Throttle response when going from FT to Zero Throttle?`

Thanks for your help!

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Re: Optimistic Kelly

Post by crossbreak » Apr 11 2014 9:46am

Maybe i must change "smooth settings" ??
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Re: Optimistic Kelly

Post by crossbreak » Apr 11 2014 9:59am

Ok, just had to deactivate "smooth setting"!! Awesomely fast now.. both ramp up and down :twisted:

Thanks for your input

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Re: Optimistic Kelly

Post by dan974 » Apr 11 2014 10:11am

try this :
throttle is 1v to 4V is = to hall ortherless change from 3wire port to hall type
try to put 1.1 or 1.2 to fine adjust the zero of the trotthle with a little dead start zone for confort and to be sure than it reach the 0 when full realease maybe you never reach 1V but 1.1 @ Low throttle so it does find that you're asking 0 throttle

same for the ending throttle maybe your max is 3.5V (you can even lower the range to minimize your wrist angle try 2.8 or 3.2 so you'll reach wide open faster...

try balanced mode

put the right value for under voltage and over

do you have a brake switch pluged ?

remove the smooth setting it should be what give you the ramp delay ask Fany for info about the smooth I don't know about it but with My 6Kw KEB would be usfull


you can plug the economy button for 50% power, usefull in technical tracks...



remove smooth setting
Last edited by dan974 on Apr 11 2014 10:14am, edited 1 time in total.

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dan974   1 kW

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Re: Optimistic Kelly

Post by dan974 » Apr 11 2014 10:13am

crossbreak wrote:Ok, just had to deactivate "smooth setting"!! Awesomely fast now.. both ramp up and down :twisted:

Thanks for your input

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: WELCOM to KELLY WOLRD ENJOY PLAYING WITH THE SETTINGS

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Re: Optimistic Kelly

Post by crossbreak » Apr 11 2014 10:57am

yep, just checked peak power of that KBS-X 72V-55A rated: could not be measured, wattmeter showed 130A (max) lol.. and this was with 20s Lipo :twisted:

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Re: Optimistic Kelly

Post by gwhy! » Apr 11 2014 11:13am

Just to clarify about the test that my colleague carried out.. he was hitting just under 150A peak with the best setting he could find @48v ( I must ask him what the model of the controller was :roll: ) but it just did not have the punch off the line as the infineon had ( the infineon was also peaking at just under 150A ) so the kelly is likely to be limiting something for the initial punch that the infineon dont , and I expect its this that seems to make the Kelly a little more reliable, maybe.

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dan974   1 kW

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Re: Optimistic Kelly

Post by dan974 » Apr 12 2014 6:00am

crossbreak wrote:yep, just checked peak power of that KBS-X 72V-55A rated: could not be measured, wattmeter showed 130A (max) lol.. and this was with 20s Lipo :twisted:
you can go UP to 21S as highest Voltage is 90V


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dan974   1 kW

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Re: Optimistic Kelly

Post by dan974 » Apr 12 2014 12:26pm

yeah I ha a bug once but charge @ 21Sx4.19 is ok 100% of time, if let one night 21S @4.2 will be ok on the morning :D I do it every day :lol:

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crossbreak   100 MW

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Re: Optimistic Kelly

Post by crossbreak » Apr 12 2014 12:42pm

ok.. just read that in the german elektroroller forum.

Anyway, 20s is more common so i'll stay with that

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Re: Optimistic Kelly

Post by crossbreak » May 19 2014 6:41pm

in the end i did not try a side by side comparison with the infineon. Simply dont like the infineon any more due horrible throttle control compared to the Kelly so i sold it.

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Re: Optimistic Kelly

Post by dan974 » May 22 2014 11:45pm

seems like finnally you're very happy with the kelly :D

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Re: Optimistic Kelly

Post by neptronix » Sep 07 2014 2:12pm

I have a question about the kelly controllers.. i am thinking strongly about buying one to use as a mid drive controller on a BBS02..

What sells me on them is not just the torque control, but the 'economy mode' function which claims that it cuts the amps in half when activated. This seems very good for a powerful mid-drive setup, in order to have two power levels.

Has anyone tried this mode.. does it actually work? it will determine whether i buy the controller or not, so it is important to know..
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Re: Optimistic Kelly

Post by dan974 » Sep 08 2014 12:06pm

neptronix wrote:I have a question about the kelly controllers.. i am thinking strongly about buying one to use as a mid drive controller on a BBS02..

What sells me on them is not just the torque control, but the 'economy mode' function which claims that it cuts the amps in half when activated. This seems very good for a powerful mid-drive setup, in order to have two power levels.

Has anyone tried this mode.. does it actually work? it will determine whether i buy the controller or not, so it is important to know..
yes it works well, but you loose the ability of variable regen as you use the wire when wiring cables/plugs

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Re: Optimistic Kelly

Post by neptronix » Sep 08 2014 2:51pm

Thanks for the answer, Dan. I was waiting on that.. I'll order one up and sort out what voltage i want to run later.
Do not look forward to playing 'guess the wiring!', but it seems to be worth it :)

My batteries are in an odd state. All of them are aged. My big 10S pack is 4 years old now. My 12S pack is 2 years old. Adding cells to get 13S or 14S will give me a disbalance in capacity and If i want to do 13S or 14S, i've got a problem.

The bafang controller is really weird because the motor's RPM varies greatly with the assist level. I read that it has an amperage taper feature, which may change the loaded speed and thus the cadence.

So i can't know what battery voltage i need to run until i get the kelly controller up and running.
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Re: Optimistic Kelly

Post by dan974 » Sep 09 2014 11:17pm

neptronix wrote:Thanks for the answer, Dan. I was waiting on that.. I'll order one up and sort out what voltage i want to run later.
Do not look forward to playing 'guess the wiring!', but it seems to be worth it :)

My batteries are in an odd state. All of them are aged. My big 10S pack is 4 years old now. My 12S pack is 2 years old. Adding cells to get 13S or 14S will give me a disbalance in capacity and If i want to do 13S or 14S, i've got a problem.

The bafang controller is really weird because the motor's RPM varies greatly with the assist level. I read that it has an amperage taper feature, which may change the loaded speed and thus the cadence.

So i can't know what battery voltage i need to run until i get the kelly controller up and running.
maybe you can tune the bafang with that and the ES posts...
http://fr.aliexpress.com/item/8fun-bafa ... 39445.html

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Re: Optimistic Kelly

Post by walkev85 » Nov 28 2014 11:33am

Can you PM me your Version 0404 Kelly KBS-X Setup Program? Take a look at what my screen shot says for the max battery current Version 0405 (4.5). They cut it down to 50%!..I emailed Fany at Kelly and Fany said they updated it and its correct and the KBS72121X program at 50% and the correct battery current limit of 70% is for the KEB72121X. I dont have have an input on the form for my current but assuming that it can detect this. I have all the settings just as you do and my CA has all the Limits Maxed or disabled and getting 724W WOT for a 54V 60A NCR18650 battery pack. I'm probably missing something in my CA settings since I triple checked the Kelly settings against what you posted earlier.
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Re: Optimistic Kelly

Post by riba2233 » Nov 28 2014 11:54am

Disable smooth setting.
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Re: Optimistic Kelly

Post by madin88 » Nov 29 2014 2:23pm

50% battery current of phase current results in 20% less power and only allows a battery - to phase amp ratio of 1:2 not lower

what the hell?
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Re: Optimistic Kelly

Post by riba2233 » Nov 29 2014 5:11pm

I don't think it's a great deal, on my keb I have battery current set to 20% (lowest), and motor current to 100%. I also noticed that it doesn't lower in linear fashion, on 100% battery current it was max 90A, but only for a short time, and on 20% I see 57A for some time. Keb also has hard power limit, on my 2kw model it limits power to 2kw after one minute or 30 second, I'm not sure.
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Re: Optimistic Kelly

Post by madin88 » Nov 30 2014 8:22am

riba2233 wrote:I don't think it's a great deal, on my keb I have battery current set to 20% (lowest), and motor current to 100%. I also noticed that it doesn't lower in linear fashion, on 100% battery current it was max 90A, but only for a short time, and on 20% I see 57A for some time. Keb also has hard power limit, on my 2kw model it limits power to 2kw after one minute or 30 second, I'm not sure.
with the KBS48121X 130A controller i have worked with, it was as desired.
as example: above 130A rated controller set to 50% motor and 50% battery current results in the following:

130 x 0,5 = 65A phase (at least for 10sec than back to the 55A continuous current rating). Im not sure if this is time related or if it depends on controller temperature and therefore it can put out longer higher currents..
than, those 65A phase x 0,5 = 32,5A Battery continuous

its always: max controller rating x % motor current x % battery current

the CA exactly did show me this expected battery current (within a few percent up or down).
however i have not checked the peak current readings, but if they were higher, they must have been very short because i have not seen them during accerleratin on the screen.

The Kelly controller are not bad and anyhow much better than the Xie Chang (infineon).
The only annoying thing i noticed was very sluggish and noisy acceleration at take off under load with DD hub motors. :( I guess this is due to the current limiting in order the controller want to protect itself from too high phase current.
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