QS 3000w midmotor

Electric Motors and Controllers
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PITMIX   1 kW

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Re: QS 3000w midmotor

Post by PITMIX » Mar 09 2021 4:16pm

Removing the pinion requires almost no force, using an extractor for that is like using a crane to lift a peanut.
Aixam 550 Twin retrofit Qs 138 70H, Nuc 24F, LG 20s 60Ah
https://cyclurba.fr/forum/621300/nNlect ... #msg621300
Yamaha TDR 125 retrofit Qs 138 90H, Nuc 24F, LG 20s 60Ah
https://cyclurba.fr/forum/714639/retrof ... #msg714639
Keeway City 50 retrofit Qs 120 70H, Nuc 12F. LG 20s 30Ah
https://cyclurba.fr/forum/698717/e-scoo ... &pageprec=

larsb   10 MW

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Re: QS 3000w midmotor

Post by larsb » Mar 10 2021 1:08am

john61ct wrote:
Mar 07 2021 8:52pm

Why do people use the 3kW / 4kW designators?
138 205 273, coupled with the 50h 70h designator is just so much clearer. What do those latter actually refer to?
I agree with you, even more so when the 3kw motor can output a LOT more than 3-4kW.

138 is airgap diameter
90h is stator width
Last edited by larsb on Mar 12 2021 1:42am, edited 1 time in total.

Greggio_f   100 µW

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Re: QS 3000w midmotor

Post by Greggio_f » Mar 12 2021 1:05am

Has anyone here tried the QS "motor assembly" as they call it?

Image

Most stuff I've read is pretty positive about the mid-mounted QS motors, but wondered if anyone had any experience with the swing arm kit.

I'm looking at converting a vintage scooter - an NZeta (essentially a New Zealand assembled Cezeta) - and I reckon that this should fit in the frame, so would sort out the motor, swing arm and drive train in one fell swoop. Plus the NZeta runs on 12" wheels by default, so I can keep the front end basically stock.

Do you think that 100km/hr is a realistic expectation for this at 72V and with the Votol EM72150SP controller?

The scooter in original form is about 120kg (dry weight, I think). Obviously it's not terribly aerodynamic and that wouldn't change. I reckon this motor and swing arm are lighter than the original. Plus I won't have exhausts or fuel. I think it might come out about even or maybe even slightly lighter.

I'm considering using these batteries, which are available here in NZ https://bluecars.nz/shop/new-53-ah-ncm-battery-module/. I think there's room to put 20 of these in series pretty low in the frame in front of the motor, which would be about 20kg and give me about 4KWh of capacity. Haven't worked out what the range would be exactly, but it's in the same ball park as the smaller capacity battery on the Cezeta 506. The battery spec sheets don't list the discharge stats, but I've got a query in to the retailer to make sure they would handle the 80A continuous and 150A peak current draw.

Image

PS. First post. I’d been following this thread on the motor. Hopefully it’s ok to post this question here - hadn’t realised it was in the Motor Tech section. Can move to the E-Scooter and Motorcycle section if not

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PITMIX   1 kW

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Re: QS 3000w midmotor

Post by PITMIX » Mar 12 2021 1:41am

Hi I have the Qs motor swingarm kit with the 120 70h motor. The speed indicated for this kit is 70km / h thanks to the FW function, and I can reach them with a converted 50cm3 scooter. The total weight is around 100kg loaded plus my weight of 92kg. With the 138 70h kit and the Votol it is possible to reach 100km / h with the FW properly adjusted. Be careful, however, this controller must be cooled because it heats up and several of my friends had problems because of this.
With Nuc 24F no problème.
Aixam 550 Twin retrofit Qs 138 70H, Nuc 24F, LG 20s 60Ah
https://cyclurba.fr/forum/621300/nNlect ... #msg621300
Yamaha TDR 125 retrofit Qs 138 90H, Nuc 24F, LG 20s 60Ah
https://cyclurba.fr/forum/714639/retrof ... #msg714639
Keeway City 50 retrofit Qs 120 70H, Nuc 12F. LG 20s 30Ah
https://cyclurba.fr/forum/698717/e-scoo ... &pageprec=

Greggio_f   100 µW

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Re: QS 3000w midmotor

Post by Greggio_f » Mar 12 2021 2:07am

PITMIX wrote:
Mar 12 2021 1:41am
Hi I have the Qs motor swingarm kit with the 120 70h motor. The speed indicated for this kit is 70km / h thanks to the FW function, and I can reach them with a converted 50cm3 scooter. The total weight is around 100kg loaded plus my weight of 92kg. With the 138 70h kit and the Votol it is possible to reach 100km / h with the FW properly adjusted. Be careful, however, this controller must be cooled because it heats up and several of my friends had problems because of this.
With Nuc 24F no problème.
Interesting. Thanks. Might have to rethink where I place the controller. Was going to put it under the seat, but there’d be no airflow...

volcamin   1 mW

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Re: QS 3000w midmotor

Post by volcamin » Mar 20 2021 5:35am

Hi, im building an electric car, from old nsu prinz (weight only 550kg) and planning to use qs138 90h version, I'm looking for around 10kw of constant power and maybe 15-20kw peaks.

This is where it gets interesting. i have 32S battery so nominal 118v and full 134volts, do you think this can handle that amount of voltage? Im looking to get Kelly controller with 200 Peak battery and 80A "constant" and max voltage of 138volts

B1078   10 mW

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Re: QS 3000w midmotor

Post by B1078 » Mar 21 2021 4:11am

Hi,

Can anybody confirm the exact kV of the qs138 90h. User 'pitmix' mensioned 97kV, but can't seem to find a datasheet🤷🏻‍♂️. Need to calculate my reduction.

TIA,

Tim
Ultra newby Honda e-gorilla build:viewtopic.php?f=12&t=105862
B1078 on Instagram for small updates and side projects.

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PITMIX   1 kW

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Re: QS 3000w midmotor

Post by PITMIX » Mar 21 2021 4:29am

I didn't measure the 90h but the 70h. Is a calculation compared to the 7000rpm announced by Qs motor
Aixam 550 Twin retrofit Qs 138 70H, Nuc 24F, LG 20s 60Ah
https://cyclurba.fr/forum/621300/nNlect ... #msg621300
Yamaha TDR 125 retrofit Qs 138 90H, Nuc 24F, LG 20s 60Ah
https://cyclurba.fr/forum/714639/retrof ... #msg714639
Keeway City 50 retrofit Qs 120 70H, Nuc 12F. LG 20s 30Ah
https://cyclurba.fr/forum/698717/e-scoo ... &pageprec=

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Ianhill   100 MW

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Re: QS 3000w midmotor

Post by Ianhill » May 23 2021 11:18pm

I think the spline failing is more to do with poor sprocket design than metal fatigue etc its an enduced failure from overstress.

I think the motor can put out its 15kw plus and not damage the shaft if a quality sprocket is used, looking at the pictures theres room left on the rear of the spline its clear from how its chewed through the middle only.
s-l400.gif
s-l400.gif (57.63 KiB) Viewed 933 times
Ok karting sprockets have a larger engagement area onto the spline increasing its load capability, it also uses 219 chain perfect for karts and light weight dirt bikes like my blown up kuberg with demag and ive been waiting for a ipm i could get to fit the gap and use the same setup ill be under 45kg with 12kw for downhill setup 200mm travel allround took me a while to work out this combo can swap to 219 and end up stronger and lighter as a result
Infinite hrspwrs.

larsb   10 MW

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Re: QS 3000w midmotor

Post by larsb » Jul 03 2021 2:35am

J Bjork just did a noload measurement on his QS 138 70h / (nucular controller)
It's interesting to see the losses take a leap at 7500 rpm which i've seen QS state is the max rpm for this motor.
QS 138 70H noload losses.JPG
QS 138 70H noload losses.JPG (25.65 KiB) Viewed 836 times
Could be an effect of the controller field weakening function not the best at these rpms also. Anyone got a good current meter and a Votol? would be interesting to see the same measurement repeated.

rider119   100 mW

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Re: QS 3000w midmotor

Post by rider119 » Jul 29 2021 2:01pm

Does anyone know the impedance of the QS120 70H and QS138 90H?

john61ct   100 GW

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Re: QS 3000w midmotor

Post by john61ct » Jul 29 2021 5:54pm


larsb wrote:
QS 138 70H noload losses.JPG
.
So a member claimed they ran this motor up to 20kW ??

How would the geared version act differently?


larsb   10 MW

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Re: QS 3000w midmotor

Post by larsb » Jul 29 2021 9:14pm

I’ve run it at 80V 300A dc input, jbjork about the same.

The geared version won’t be different. (Off course depending on total gearing)

larsb   10 MW

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Re: QS 3000w midmotor

Post by larsb » Jul 29 2021 11:06pm

rider119 wrote:
Jul 29 2021 2:01pm
Does anyone know the impedance of the QS120 70H and QS138 90H?
It’s about 5mohm for the 138 70H

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PITMIX   1 kW

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Re: QS 3000w midmotor

Post by PITMIX » Jul 30 2021 12:21am

I found a guy who thinks his engine is running at 20,000rpm. :lol:
I tried to explain to him that the motor runs with a maximum kV of 73 but he is sure that his motor is running at 20,000rpm :roll:
If the engine of my motorcycle was running at 20,000 RPM it would roll at 560km/h :shock:
https://youtu.be/x3y98TC8YNE
Aixam 550 Twin retrofit Qs 138 70H, Nuc 24F, LG 20s 60Ah
https://cyclurba.fr/forum/621300/nNlect ... #msg621300
Yamaha TDR 125 retrofit Qs 138 90H, Nuc 24F, LG 20s 60Ah
https://cyclurba.fr/forum/714639/retrof ... #msg714639
Keeway City 50 retrofit Qs 120 70H, Nuc 12F. LG 20s 30Ah
https://cyclurba.fr/forum/698717/e-scoo ... &pageprec=

j bjork   100 kW

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Re: QS 3000w midmotor

Post by j bjork » Jul 30 2021 4:41am

Seems unlikely, it seems like he set max rpm on the controller to 9000.
It dosent sound like very high rpm to me?
At 8-9000rpm my motor was screaming..
Is 20000 even possible mechanically?

About the volt/amp power discussion earlier, in the log I published in my thread I have:
10:58:17;81.8;365.5;7300;129.5;23;27;6;29898;0 0;
10:58:18;89.4;361.1;6611;117.3;23;28;6;32282;0 0;

First is time, 10:58:17, volt 81.8, Amp 365.5 rpm 7300 speed and temps, power 29898
10:58:18 89.4 361.1 6611 32282

It should be about right, but time glitches messes with some numbers.
Like it dosent seem reasonable that I have 89V when I had 81V a second earlier with about the same load. But probably the V updated when the amps didnt after I let go of the throttle.

john61ct   100 GW

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Re: QS 3000w midmotor

Post by john61ct » Jul 30 2021 9:46am

larsb wrote:I’ve run it at 80V 300A dc input, jbjork about the same.

The geared version won’t be different. (Off course depending on total gearing)
So that J Bjork chart above

only holds for a particular voltage?

Do you know what voltage?

rider119   100 mW

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Re: QS 3000w midmotor

Post by rider119 » Jul 30 2021 6:51pm

larsb wrote:
Jul 29 2021 11:06pm
rider119 wrote:
Jul 29 2021 2:01pm
Does anyone know the impedance of the QS120 70H and QS138 90H?
It’s about 5mohm for the 138 70H
Thank you sir! Still curious about the 120 if anyone knows?

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Overclocker   10 kW

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Re: QS 3000w midmotor

Post by Overclocker » Jul 31 2021 3:16am

Ianhill wrote:
May 23 2021 11:18pm
I think the spline failing is more to do with poor sprocket design than metal fatigue etc its an enduced failure from overstress.

I think the motor can put out its 15kw plus and not damage the shaft if a quality sprocket is used, looking at the pictures theres room left on the rear of the spline its clear from how its chewed through the middle only.
s-l400.gif
Ok karting sprockets have a larger engagement area onto the spline increasing its load capability, it also uses 219 chain perfect for karts and light weight dirt bikes like my blown up kuberg with demag and ive been waiting for a ipm i could get to fit the gap and use the same setup ill be under 45kg with 12kw for downhill setup 200mm travel allround took me a while to work out this combo can swap to 219 and end up stronger and lighter as a result
IMG_20210620_111831 (1).jpg
IMG_20210620_111831 (1).jpg (217.43 KiB) Viewed 582 times

agree. shaft spline wear comes from loose-fitting sprockets (yes the sprockets supplied by QS are loose).

so i fixed it by utilizing all the available splines w/ super tight fitting parts. however this covers the circlip groove so there's no other way to retain the sprocket but to weld :lol:

QS should revise the design for wider spline engagement and provide a threaded hole for a bolt to hold the sprocket in

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PITMIX   1 kW

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Re: QS 3000w midmotor

Post by PITMIX » Jul 31 2021 10:03am

Qs already solved the problem look at the sprocket for the Qs 138 90H here.
https://a.aliexpress.com/_vo6uyV
Aixam 550 Twin retrofit Qs 138 70H, Nuc 24F, LG 20s 60Ah
https://cyclurba.fr/forum/621300/nNlect ... #msg621300
Yamaha TDR 125 retrofit Qs 138 90H, Nuc 24F, LG 20s 60Ah
https://cyclurba.fr/forum/714639/retrof ... #msg714639
Keeway City 50 retrofit Qs 120 70H, Nuc 12F. LG 20s 30Ah
https://cyclurba.fr/forum/698717/e-scoo ... &pageprec=

john61ct   100 GW

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Re: QS 3000w midmotor

Post by john61ct » Aug 01 2021 12:42am

PITMIX wrote:Qs already solved the problem look at the sprocket for the Qs 138 90H here.
https://a.aliexpress.com/_vo6uyV
So means buy the belt drive version of the motor, use the adapter to accommodate a chain drive?

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PITMIX   1 kW

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Re: QS 3000w midmotor

Post by PITMIX » Aug 01 2021 12:56am

Yes sir !
Aixam 550 Twin retrofit Qs 138 70H, Nuc 24F, LG 20s 60Ah
https://cyclurba.fr/forum/621300/nNlect ... #msg621300
Yamaha TDR 125 retrofit Qs 138 90H, Nuc 24F, LG 20s 60Ah
https://cyclurba.fr/forum/714639/retrof ... #msg714639
Keeway City 50 retrofit Qs 120 70H, Nuc 12F. LG 20s 30Ah
https://cyclurba.fr/forum/698717/e-scoo ... &pageprec=

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Overclocker   10 kW

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Re: QS 3000w midmotor

Post by Overclocker » Aug 01 2021 5:12am

14t is the smallest?

i'm now using 56t at the back, 11t motor sprocket. to maintain same ratio i'd need a giant 72t. and this is w/ the low-kv "2000w" 120-70h motor (kv is 38)

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PITMIX   1 kW

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Re: QS 3000w midmotor

Post by PITMIX » Aug 01 2021 8:43am

Yes unfortunately there is no less than 14T for the motor shaft with Woodruff key.
Aixam 550 Twin retrofit Qs 138 70H, Nuc 24F, LG 20s 60Ah
https://cyclurba.fr/forum/621300/nNlect ... #msg621300
Yamaha TDR 125 retrofit Qs 138 90H, Nuc 24F, LG 20s 60Ah
https://cyclurba.fr/forum/714639/retrof ... #msg714639
Keeway City 50 retrofit Qs 120 70H, Nuc 12F. LG 20s 30Ah
https://cyclurba.fr/forum/698717/e-scoo ... &pageprec=

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PITMIX   1 kW

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Re: QS 3000w midmotor

Post by PITMIX » Aug 01 2021 8:45am

Yes unfortunately there is no less than 14T for the motor shaft with Woodruff key.
I have this sprocket on the Qs 138 and a 57T ​​crown is way too long even with 300A battery. I have ordered a 70T crown for the rear wheel.
Aixam 550 Twin retrofit Qs 138 70H, Nuc 24F, LG 20s 60Ah
https://cyclurba.fr/forum/621300/nNlect ... #msg621300
Yamaha TDR 125 retrofit Qs 138 90H, Nuc 24F, LG 20s 60Ah
https://cyclurba.fr/forum/714639/retrof ... #msg714639
Keeway City 50 retrofit Qs 120 70H, Nuc 12F. LG 20s 30Ah
https://cyclurba.fr/forum/698717/e-scoo ... &pageprec=

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