BESC - beefed up VESC motor controller for high power ebikes

Electric Motors and Controllers
peters   1 kW

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Re: BESC - beefed up VESC motor controller for high power ebikes

Post by peters » Jul 31 2019 5:13pm

It was a double pulse test of a half bridge with 2 parallel FETs on an inductor load, but not perfectly balanced. The end of the first pulse is on the left (turn off). I tried only this hard switching, was not interested in soft switching.
This is the Vds of the same test, measured also on the legs at the package:
IMG_20190713_122324.jpg
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DC bus voltage was 64V, overshoot is 13V, and there is some ringing at 42MHz, 13Vpp. The total current was about 240A (just out of the range of a 200A ACS758 which tops at 220..230A).
The Vds edges are sharp (maybe too sharp), but the Id rise time is above 400ns - it appears on the Vds waveform as the chopped corner (L*di/dt) before the falling edge, and it is this long due to the high Qrr.

From where do you see it is EMI sensitive, by the gate ringing?
By your 475 and 575ns which transitions do you mean exactly, can you show on a waveform?

zombiess   100 MW

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Re: BESC - beefed up VESC motor controller for high power ebikes

Post by zombiess » Aug 01 2019 4:51pm

peters wrote:
Jul 31 2019 5:13pm
From where do you see it is EMI sensitive, by the gate ringing?
By your 475 and 575ns which transitions do you mean exactly, can you show on a waveform?
From what you said, I thought you had an EMI compliance issue.
The 475ns refers to the time it takes the D-S to switch from 10% to 90% of it's range.


So for some wave form info and what it means, I've typed up a post about ringing and overshoot here
viewtopic.php?f=30&t=101577

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HighHopes   10 kW

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Re: BESC - beefed up VESC motor controller for high power ebikes

Post by HighHopes » Aug 12 2019 8:31pm

TD350E sadly yes is going to be, if not already, obsolete. ST got lucky with that one back in the day when they made the gate driver cause it actually worked remarkably well. this is going back some 15 years. for the low to mid level power, this gate drive even with a boost stage was the goto. now-a-days there are more options that are viable. at higher power levels, say >50kW, you really need to be selective because they don't all work the same quality. the switching IGBT/mosfet creates such noise that it crawls over the plastic which means CMRR in the datasheet is irrelevant. there is just so much to think about in that one circuit.. the gate driver. its the most critical part to a properly working motor drive. for <10kW avago, TI, infineon .. all good options. >50kW you need to be more selective.. and yes, a separate power supply .. an unregulated DC/DC with galvanic isolation preferably with <5pf of input-to-output capacitance is desired. power supply datasheet doesn't list in/out capacitance? probably indicates they either don't know its important or they know its important but their part is so bad in this category they don't want to list it. you found a gate driver power supply and like the price but it doesn't list input/output so maybe use it anyway? that type of thinking is ok <10kW, but it will lead to disaster >50kw. i have designed so many of my own power supplies because i couldn't get the mfg. datasheet to show me the info i needed to see. its a lot bigger on the board to design your own but not that much more expensive. maybe sounds like a waste of time.. but when you play >50kW long enough you learn where your time is best spent.

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HighHopes   10 kW

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Re: BESC - beefed up VESC motor controller for high power ebikes

Post by HighHopes » Aug 12 2019 8:35pm

Peters.. before you get bent out of shape about ringing on a double pulse test. put both diff probes on ONE location, say IGBT gate. then repeat the double pulse. notice you still get ringing? that's basically your probe leads.. it represents the portion of the double pulse scope test results that are not real. there are methods to reduce this so that your scope shows you mostly real results.
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peters   1 kW

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Re: BESC - beefed up VESC motor controller for high power ebikes

Post by peters » Aug 13 2019 8:14am

Thanks HighHopes but I know the tricks of these measurements. Only a small portion of the amplitude came from the limited common mode rejection of the probe and another small portion was the coupled inductive noise from di/dt.

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jlcortex   10 mW

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Re: BESC - beefed up VESC motor controller for high power ebikes

Post by jlcortex » Sep 09 2019 5:31pm

Hello Galp,

I am interested in a couple of this PCBs
Do you still have PCBs availables?

apple2   100 µW

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Re: BESC - beefed up VESC motor controller for high power ebikes

Post by apple2 » Sep 23 2019 7:52am

I would like a PCB as well if available.
Really like the project and I would be happy to build one for my bike.

fredrikhems   1 µW

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Re: BESC - beefed up VESC motor controller for high power ebikes

Post by fredrikhems » Oct 07 2019 12:03pm

Sent you a PM galp :)

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ElectricGod   1 GW

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Re: BESC - beefed up VESC motor controller for high power ebikes

Post by ElectricGod » Oct 25 2019 11:31am

Any progress on this controller?
will they be for sale soon?
XB-502: viewtopic.php?f=10&t=83302&p=1222730#p1222730

Currie scooter: viewtopic.php?f=35&t=83830&p=1227407#p1227407

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galp   100 W

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Re: BESC - beefed up VESC motor controller for high power ebikes

Post by galp » Nov 09 2019 12:49pm

I tested the controller with a small motor on 10S. The current sensors are reversed by accident but it is solved with a "-" in software.

Results look promising.

shaman   1 kW

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Re: BESC - beefed up VESC motor controller for high power ebikes

Post by shaman » Nov 09 2019 12:55pm

Nice work @galp! I actually made the same mistake with my current sensors on my most recent OSHW prototype. Where in the code did you add the "-"?

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galp   100 W

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Re: BESC - beefed up VESC motor controller for high power ebikes

Post by galp » Nov 09 2019 12:56pm

The amp gain setting. I think this is the way to do it but I'll ask someone to be sure.

shaman   1 kW

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Re: BESC - beefed up VESC motor controller for high power ebikes

Post by shaman » Nov 09 2019 2:57pm

Capture5654.JPG
Capture5654.JPG (68.6 KiB) Viewed 1870 times
Might also work by changing the "GET_CURRENTx()" values hw.h . Only 2 out of the 3 of my current sense amps are swapped by mistake. I'll give this a try.

EDIT:
Actually just noticed the "INVERTED_SHUNT_POLARITY" define. Seems like one could define it and it gets take care of.


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galp   100 W

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Re: BESC - beefed up VESC motor controller for high power ebikes

Post by galp » Dec 15 2019 9:06am

After a few problems with software and few burnt fets the controller finally works. I tested it @300A phase current and it works flawlessly. My ebike now pops wheelies at any speed. I'm sooo happy! :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

Ialso designed and 3d printed an enclosure to fit the controller in my ebike. It also holds BMS and cables in place and mounts two 80mm fans to cool the controller.

Image
Image

Now I have to waterproof my ebike and go for a longer ride to see how the controller holds.

shaman   1 kW

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Re: BESC - beefed up VESC motor controller for high power ebikes

Post by shaman » Dec 16 2019 7:24pm

Congrats! Nice to hear about the 300A phase capability. That's some serious torque! Could you share a bit about what you dealt with in the software/firmware?

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galp   100 W

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Re: BESC - beefed up VESC motor controller for high power ebikes

Post by galp » Dec 18 2019 5:36am

I had to invert shunt polarity and gate disable/enable. I also had few bugs in HW due to bad soldering.

Hackey   100 mW

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Re: BESC - beefed up VESC motor controller for high power ebikes

Post by Hackey » Feb 10 2020 4:34am

How about replacing ucc21520 with si8233 for half the price and it is also part to part compatible.


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