Compact Field Oriented Controller, ASI + Grin, limited run

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pomah   100 mW

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Re: Compact Field Oriented Controller, ASI + Grin, limited run

Post by pomah » Oct 30 2020 3:22am

Hi, I recently started to get the following error on my v1 phaserunner:

"POST dynamic gating test"

I have no idea what that could even be...

I can ride the bike for a while, sometimes 6 min, sometimes 15 min, then it stops responding to throttle/PAS input. It jsut sits there, after a while, 10-15 min I am able to reset it and then after 5 min it happens again. It almost feels like the controller is overheated and needs to cool down, but I am able to hold it in my hand without any issues in those situations so it can be overheated as far as I can tell.

I have had 0 issues with it since I bought it in 2017, but now I cant really ride my bike since I do not know what is causing the error or how to continue with the fault searching. No changes in the setup or hardware except for a mounting an older throttle back on again.

I have emailed Grin but still not received any answer, I guess they have a lot to do now.

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jpc6000   10 W

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Re: Compact Field Oriented Controller, ASI + Grin, limited run

Post by jpc6000 » Nov 10 2020 6:53am

With the bafang bbs2 motors, I have already blown 6 controllers. And so I connected and tested the phaserunner. (15s 4p, 60v)

Have following problems:
1. I start in position 1 , 500w power, start up slowly compared to bafang controller.
2. When I loosen and open throttle the engine starts to jerk. The chain and the rest have a hard time. I have this at all speeds. If I pedal hard myself, then I have this problem almost not.
3. If the engine does not turn fast and then I open the throttle, the engine will hum, the engine will stall and will not accelerate. Also when I pedal hard this disappear.
4. Once during the ride, everything went out, the engine and the cycle analyst. I disconnected the battery and then everything rebooted.
5. In first power mode, at start-up I have to push the throttle far before it leaves.

What should be the problem?

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jpc6000   10 W

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Re: Compact Field Oriented Controller, ASI + Grin, limited run

Post by jpc6000 » Nov 11 2020 12:50pm

Tried the phaserunner further today. In the past with the bafang controller it was a bliss, with the phaserunner driving is a horror. Now I drive with a higher voltage and the bafang drives 10km / h slower! The bafang bbs likes a higher turning speed, here it gets stuck, at a high speed the power is lost, then starts to jerk. And sometimes the power is lost. With the bafang controller I could turn twice faster the bottom bracket. And the failure is the worst, when I end up in the pit, the power drops. Restarting is the only option, at 60km this happened 10 times. What I also do not understand is that it only delivers a maximum of 1240 watts? 30A x 60v = 1800 watts. I have limited it to 1500 watts but it will not make it. With the bafang controller my bike was driving 50 to 60 km / h now 40 to 50 km / h. When I am riding and turn the throttle closed and then open the whole bike jerks, causing the chain to fly off. And no help is coming from grin Technologies, it reminds me of Windows xt, nothing but misery. If I go to a forum to a good supplier, they will receive a reply within a reasonable time. The cycle analyst screen is also outdated. No colors, when it rains the information is almost impossible to read, no hour indication, I miss my bafang display. :confused:

goatman   100 MW

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Re: Compact Field Oriented Controller, ASI + Grin, limited run

Post by goatman » Nov 12 2020 3:14am

go into phaserunner suite and put about 1amp in the virtual electronic freewheeling and see if that solves the jerkiness and maybe put about 10amps in the top speed overdrive.

OR BEFORE DOING THAT

go into the bike section of this forum and search, bbshd phaserunner settings, i know ive seen a thread on it

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jpc6000   10 W

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Re: Compact Field Oriented Controller, ASI + Grin, limited run

Post by jpc6000 » Nov 14 2020 6:11am

I have change the configurations
phaserunner basic.png
phaserunner basic.png (121.36 KiB) Viewed 811 times
You see wheel diameter 9.2 inch! I do not understand, I change it to 26 inch, when I read again parameters it change again to 9? :confused:
I search in forum to bbshd phaserunner settings, their are so many that I don't find the correct thread.
phaserunner advanced.png
phaserunner advanced.png (121.54 KiB) Viewed 811 times
phaserunner dashboard.png
phaserunner dashboard.png (72.74 KiB) Viewed 811 times

DtiK   1 W

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Re: Compact Field Oriented Controller, ASI + Grin, limited run

Post by DtiK » Nov 14 2020 3:12pm

I did already put this letter to grin, but I'll leave here also if anyone? has ideas.

before I explain my problem, I say I have been running motor no problem before replacing controller. (Or trying to replace). Motor is Cyclone 3000W. And I have Cycle Analyst connected to Phaserunner. In short, problem is that motor doesn't spin properly.

First I tried to get Phaserunner working as "sensored start, sensorless run" -mode.

I got phase current errors when doing autotest, but they were gone after I changed some values accordingly.

So after adjustments motor did spin just fine when doing test!
Video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eW2YmP_uAuI

But after that is hall test. It is unsuccessfull. When doing test procedure, it fails everytime.
Picture: https://aijaa.com/t3wL4p

Video here when I turn motor by hand:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vcqBYwxCyFo

I read forums etc and now know that Cyclone's hall sensors are sometimes problematic and may need 12V feed instead of 5V. Well, I arranged them 12V from voltage reducer. No help. I drove with old controller and it works like should.

At this point I gave up using hall sensors and trying to get it working sensorless. Disconnected halls totally. No go. Spin test works, but when I use throttle, I just get terrible sound and strange movement.
Video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bTiIq4y4lcg

I tried 6 phase wire combinations. Didn't help so I'm back to color-to-color wiring on them. Software shows throttle voltages, and it's fine. In last video it's about same as coming from CA.

goatman   100 MW

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Re: Compact Field Oriented Controller, ASI + Grin, limited run

Post by goatman » Nov 14 2020 10:41pm

jpc6000 wrote:
Nov 14 2020 6:11am
I have change the configurations
phaserunner basic.png
You see wheel diameter 9.2 inch! I do not understand, I change it to 26 inch, when I read again parameters it change again to 9? :confused:
I search in forum to bbshd phaserunner settings, their are so many that I don't find the correct thread.

phaserunner advanced.png

phaserunner dashboard.png
im not a mid drive guy but someone uploaded their settings here

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=91775&p=1482117&hil ... g#p1490447

read a little lower in the thread and youll see Justin/Grin make a comment, and another persons settings

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jpc6000   10 W

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Re: Compact Field Oriented Controller, ASI + Grin, limited run

Post by jpc6000 » Nov 15 2020 7:51am

Is the bafang bbshd the same configuration as the bbs2?

goatman   100 MW

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Re: Compact Field Oriented Controller, ASI + Grin, limited run

Post by goatman » Nov 15 2020 8:57am

jpc6000 wrote:
Nov 15 2020 7:51am
Is the bafang bbshd the same configuration as the bbs2?
try this link

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=91775&p=1422643&hil ... s#p1423033

if that doesnt work, did you try what he replied to you in this link ?

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=91775&p=1422643&hil ... s#p1445065

just search, bbs02 phaserunner settings

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jpc6000   10 W

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Re: Compact Field Oriented Controller, ASI + Grin, limited run

Post by jpc6000 » Nov 17 2020 10:39am

I have fill in all the configuration info
What a bad programme phaserunnersuite!
I fill in the info, go to advanced setup, write the info, check everything, the original configurations are back!
I have then done it, everything I changed I write it back.
Sometimes you fill in and it doesn't want to fill in the numbers. If I then fill in the numbers with ctrl V, another number appears.
Crazy program.
After a long process I filled in everything, the engine refused to run, only hum. I am using autotune, wheel spinning failed.
I let in the default parameters of grin technologies for Bafang.
Keeps refusing to run. Using the old parameters, no change, failed spinning motor test. Crazy!

Connect another phase controller that are working and have the bbs02 parameters, I read the parameters from the phaserunner, test the motor and it works! Connect the other phaserunner, write parameters to phaserunner, test, motor still refuses to run? Autotune also no result.
Understand who can understand? :confused:
badconfig1.png
badconfig1.png (121.63 KiB) Viewed 712 times
badconfig2.png
badconfig2.png (115.74 KiB) Viewed 712 times
The phaserunner is working again, the problem was that when I connect the other phaserunner the parameter are read and so I haven't change it with the good parameters. The parameter that give the problem was I think PLL bandwidth

That mean that I can't use the parameters from the good working bbs2 link. It doesn't work. phaserunnersuite have now another and more parameters.

Which parameters have I do change to stop the jerking motor when I close and open it again the throttle.

Field weakening current 30A is that ok?

The BMS is max 30A.

The new working parameters
oldpar1.png
oldpar1.png (125.47 KiB) Viewed 699 times
oldpar2.png
oldpar2.png (124.04 KiB) Viewed 699 times

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jpc6000   10 W

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Re: Compact Field Oriented Controller, ASI + Grin, limited run

Post by jpc6000 » Nov 17 2020 3:23pm

Why is there nowhere clear information what every parameter is need for in the phaserunnersuite?
Then I can try to solve the problem myself.
I am not an motorspecialist and I think most of the people who have e-bike.
And grin technology give me not the answers. :(

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jpc6000   10 W

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Re: Compact Field Oriented Controller, ASI + Grin, limited run

Post by jpc6000 » Nov 17 2020 3:43pm

viewt ... s#p1423033

this configuration I have tried and the motor hum, not working.
The important difference is:
Feedback Bandwidth
First numbers are BBS2 on forum the second are BBS2 mine
current regulator bandwidth 0 rads 1000 rads
PLL bandwidth 2,5 rads 256 rads
PLL damping no info 1.87

NO INFO (new phaserunnersuite)
Virtual Electronic freewheeling

Electronic freewheeling current 0.87A
Motor stall timeout 100 ms

Sensorless starting map
autostart max rpm 26 rpm 83 rpm
I can't change that, it change always to 83?


What that all means is a mystery to me

I tried change some parameters I get fault :roll:

goatman   100 MW

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Re: Compact Field Oriented Controller, ASI + Grin, limited run

Post by goatman » Nov 17 2020 6:42pm

the virtual electronic freewheeling should get rid of chain jerk, maybe try 1amp to see. that keeps tension on the chain


DtiK   1 W

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Re: Compact Field Oriented Controller, ASI + Grin, limited run

Post by DtiK » Nov 18 2020 4:12am

virtual freewheeling is explained on their youtube video.

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jpc6000   10 W

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Re: Compact Field Oriented Controller, ASI + Grin, limited run

Post by jpc6000 » Nov 19 2020 12:24pm

I have a better name for the phaserunner, the jerking motor controller.

I have thousands of euros worth of products at grin technolgies, but they don't get any service. They answer sorry for the long wait and then a solution that does not work or I do not receive an answer.

Most problems have been solved, but at full power my BMS was activated at 1300 watt, not sure if it was too much power or under voltage. 1300w/51V= 25A not over 30A.

The jerking of the motor is not over, as if the controller wants to break my motor or drivetrain.

I drive 40 km / h when I release the throttle, it starts to jerk at 30 km / h till stop. Also at a standstill and accelerate, the shocks sometimes happen. At 14km / h and let me roll out, the jerk starts at 8 km / h, until I come to a complete stop, otherwise the jerking continues.

I set the virtual freewheeling to 1.5A, maybe too much, so now have it at 0.82A. I still have to test that.
Can't motor stall timeout provide a solution?

As for their video about virtual freewheeling, I haven't gotten much smarter.
Now I also get an error 8, max regen voltage rollback. I don't use regen, it's a mid-motor! What do I need to change?

Max phase current, is this per phase or is that the total power consumption? This is at 40A while my bms delivers max 30A. Why maybe the failure of the BMS?

Max field weakening with my 30A BMS what can I fill max in there? 30A current + 10 A field weakening current is this 40A usage?

Does anyone have experience with a better controller?

When I change max phase current to 30A I get faults2 1 current scaling! Why is that?

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jpc6000   10 W

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Re: Compact Field Oriented Controller, ASI + Grin, limited run

Post by jpc6000 » Nov 19 2020 2:54pm

Jerking when I lose throttle is gone.

But now is when I start fast, full throttle, jerking.

When I lose throttle then open again, jerking. When I open little bit throttle, jerk a little bit and sometimes it starts up. When I peddle hard, it's happens not.

Very annoying controller. :cry:

hias9   100 W

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Re: Compact Field Oriented Controller, ASI + Grin, limited run

Post by hias9 » Dec 07 2020 12:59pm

With my ASI controller the motor is jerking at some point in field weakening area. The problem I have is that with no load and some field weakening, only for the first 10-15% of throttle setpoint, more throttle results in more motor current and higher rpm. Around 15% the motor is jerking.
And for 20-100% throttle setpoint, more throttle actually results in less motor current and less rpm.

I am using torque mode. Setting current regulator bandwidth to 0 improved the problem a lot, but did not solve it completely.

Do you have the same issue with Phaserunner/ASI controllers?

DtiK   1 W

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Re: Compact Field Oriented Controller, ASI + Grin, limited run

Post by DtiK » Dec 07 2020 2:29pm

nope. phaserunner here.

hias9   100 W

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Re: Compact Field Oriented Controller, ASI + Grin, limited run

Post by hias9 » Dec 08 2020 8:28am

The jerking I only have when running the motor no load. It's happening at higher rpms than I reach while riding.
But even with current regulator bandwidth set to 0, while riding near top speed deep in field weakening area, I have about 15% less power and motor current at 100% throttle than have at 50-60% throttle. Top speed was reached with 50-60% throttle and it decreased a bit after going to full throttle.

fussler   1 mW

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Re: Compact Field Oriented Controller, ASI + Grin, limited run

Post by fussler » Feb 14 2021 10:42pm

try throttle ramp down voltage to 4v/s

hias9   100 W

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Re: Compact Field Oriented Controller, ASI + Grin, limited run

Post by hias9 » Feb 21 2021 8:52pm

Do you mean throttle gain (Volt/Volt) ?

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