EV backhoe

I have a 1979 Ford 555 Backhoe that workers amazing other then the 3.3L diesel appears to Be blown.

Stock Engine Detail:
Ford diesel 3-cylinder 201 ci [3.3 L]
Power: 57 hp [42.5 kW]
Power (gross): 62 hp [46.2 kW]
Rated RPM: 2200
Torque: 160 lb-ft [217.0 Nm]
Torque RPM: 1200

Type: torque converter
Gears: 4 forward and reverse
Torque converter with stall at 2050 engine rpm and a multiplication ratio of 2.78-to-1.
Speeds: With 16.9x24 rear tires.

I would like 1.5-2 hours of run time , I’m content with the tractors slow nature As it never leaves my 5 acres

I already have a level 2 50A 240vac charger for my Nissan Leaf I would like to utilize

There are 5 heavy weights bolted to the front of this thing so when your using the hoe to lift heavy things the tractor doesn’t tip so I’m not concerned with weight.

I am a dual ticket Power Lineman and Electrician and have welding and metal fabrication capabilities

Simple Series wound DC motor (warp 9) and Lead acid batteries were my first thought , i am interested in what you guys thought ?

Lead pack really will not like being drawn down often much below 50% SoC

may not put out a high enough C-rate for the short power peaks demanded

and really do take up lots of space, at least double that of LFP.

LFP will last many years longer, is fine with going down to 80-85% DoD, and can really pump out amps when needed, to the point you could use most of their capacity up in 10-15min

Solution being a bigger bank more Ah/kWh, which is why taking up half the space is A Good Thing.

Look at Winston, CALB, GBS, Sinopoly, CATL and A123 (now Lithium Werks / Valence / Super B)

although I don't think the latter goes bigger than 25 or 40Ah cells

On the big prismatics (hard rectangular casing, threaded posts) 180Ah is a pretty normal size, apparently can go to many hundreds but very rare to see among DIYers.

All this begs the question, just how big a bank you need, may need to put them on a trailer or something.

And a quality bank that size, new Grade A cells, will cost many thousands figure a ballpark of $400-800 per kWh

Don't know enough to really comment but here is my 1 cent worth.

Brushed motors and lead batteries are old school. Brushed motors require more maintenance then other solutions. lead acid batteries don't last long being deep cycled and don't have the energy you need. Your going to be pressed for space with high energy batteries.

You will want automotive traction batteries, just filling up the engine space may not get you much more than moving it around.
Two work for a couple of hrs you many need a trailer park close but I could see what a nightmare that would be if your digging a trench.

Was looking for what type of transmission that tractor uses, that will be one of the main issues.
If it was all hydraulic like a track hoe that would be easier the motor would only run when you need pressure but a PTO system thru a manual or hydrastat is different.

The only long running farm equipment that I have seen had power cables running to it, but I have not seen much and sure new things are always being developed.

Hopefully some will chime in and help.

I’m not sure either of you two read or understood the original post. The tractor has 5 weights bolted to the front to balance the hoe. Replace these weights with battery boxes and fill them with an equal amount of lead. Lead is cheap and there is Space for a lot of it. So the only problem is finding a motor capable of doing the work and an adaptor to mate it with the existing drive and hydraulics.

Replace these weights with battery boxes and fill them with an equal amount of lead. Lead is cheap and there is Space for a lot of it

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Your are right, did not get that he wanted to replace the weights with boxes of lead.

Sorry, just to clarify, the weights aren’t big enough to make into battery boxes, it was more a representation of how weight is not an issue ie. if the battery pack was much heavier then then ice I could simply remove some weights to end up back at original weight.

A trailer would not work for batteries but there is room for a pack

The machine has 2 functions;
1- moving material around with the front loader, this would require power to the transmition or differential and to the hydraulic pump for the front loaders hydraulics to work
2- digging with the hoe, this only requires power to the hydraulic pump as the machine is stationary

A motor with shaft at both ends would work well

Yes understood weight is not a problem, but that does not mean a lead bank can be made to work.

Space is an issue, for that kind of kW level power demand, I think even with doubled energy-density LFP chemistry, for any practical working period,

you're talking at least a cubic meter of cells

possibly several cubic meters.

JIMMY_J said:

A trailer would not work for batteries but there is room for a pack

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But is there room for as large a pack as the use case will require?

And if there is room, are you willing to spend more on just the pack as the backhoe is worth?

Plus the motor, transmission, control electronics and other infrastructure.

I doubt this idea would be in any way practical economically.

What is your motivation for going electric in the first place?

If this is a "green" PR stunt, the project will need funding sources with very deep pockets.

JIMMY_J » Sep 19 2020 11:23pm

Sorry, just to clarify, the weights aren’t big enough to make into battery boxes, it was more a representation of how weight is not an issue ie. if the battery pack was much heavier then then ice I could simply remove some weights to end up back at original weight.

A trailer would not work for batteries but there is room for a pack

The machine has 2 functions;
1- moving material around with the front loader, this would require power to the transmition or differential and to the hydraulic pump for the front loaders hydraulics to work
2- digging with the hoe, this only requires power to the hydraulic pump as the machine is stationary

A motor with shaft at both ends would work well

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You were clear to me! But not everyone seen it as I did.
The only reason I even have a clue. Worked in the oilfield for 17 yrs and most equipment had hydraulics. During this time married a Farmer's/Rancher Daughter and helped her father work on tractors, combines and equipment even ran a backhoe like yours 40 yrs ago, Did strip mining for 6 years drove 50 ton trucks, ran D6-D8 Cats and learned to run a trackhoe but none of this makes me an expert but does give me an idea what the cast-iron weights are for and the limited room up front to clear the loader bucket, the protection things need for what would fall out of the bucket and do damage.

If it had an automatic type transmission the PTO/hydraulic pump would run off the transmission/Flywheel. The older manual equipment would had a PTO drive to power the pump.

You would never get close with SLA batteries, the weight had nothing to do with it. Mounting space for all the batteries you would need, not sure mounting batteries between the front of tractor and bucket is a wise idea but would look at all options.
Warp 9 DC motor may be a good choice, just don't know. Sure there are other here would know. Most of the motors that are run now are not really DC motors more like 3 phase AC that need controllers to run them. I know the Warp 9 would fit down in your cast frame not sure of any others. The main issue is run time if you can get enough Amp hours to make it feasible.

Agree with everything, just clarifying

ZeroEm said:

You would never get close with SLA batteries

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nor any other lead type, sealed vs flooded does not matter in this case

Just a few comments..
Do you plan to remove the Diesel motor block etc completely ?...if so , that free’s up a lot of space.
Is that possible ? Or is the motor block integral to the Tractor structure ?
Some how, you need to estimate the power/torque needed for your planned use.
Its unlikely you will need to match those original peak power figures from the ICE, unless you are planning a hard life for this unit.
I suspect the Hydraulic pump Torque load when digging or using the FEL will be the critical factor,..do you have any specs for that pump ?
Once you have figured the max power load, you can calculate the battery pack size that suits for fit and cost.
Have you considered using repurposing parts (motors, pumps, controllers , etc,..from an electric fork truck ? I suspect there is much to be learned (problems avoided ?) from those Fork trucks as they work 8-12 hours a day lifting 1-2tons and travelling at speed , all on one recharge !
For batterys,.. consider segments from a GM Volt EV pack , or similar...many low cost options from EV’s.. ( there is a thread on here detailing them.)

Thank you for your reply’s , as i tear down the tractor it is becoming clear that the cast block of the engine and case oil pan are part of the tractors structure that hold the front end including front axle on. I have now split the tractor in 2 just to remove the cast oil pan.

My motivation is a passion for all things electric. And the fact i may have a huge cast block that now needs to be pulled out takes to a machine shop and have the cylinders re sleeved, then a full engine rebuild. Lots of money and worse then that lots of time.

With my limited knowledge i assumed slow and no weight restrictions meant this was not an overly complicated project as i could use DC series wound motor and lead batteries but as you wise ones have stated this is not the case

JIMMY_J » Sep 20 2020 9:03pm

Thank you for your reply’s , as i tear down the tractor it is becoming clear that the cast block of the engine and case oil pan are part of the tractors structure that hold the front end including front axle on. I have now split the tractor in 2 just to remove the cast oil pan.

My motivation is a passion for all things electric. And the fact i may have a huge cast block that now needs to be pulled out takes to a machine shop and have the cylinders re sleeved, then a full engine rebuild. Lots of money and worse then that lots of time.

With my limited knowledge i assumed slow and no weight restrictions meant this was not an overly complicated project as i could use DC series wound motor and lead batteries but as you wise ones have stated this is not the case

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Batteries are getting better they are not there yet. Would have liked to see you do this project, what I remember Diesel's were like $10,000 per cylinder to rebuild. The V12 Cats were around $100,000
I remember the some tractors transmissions were one with the rear end. Tractors do not have a lot of empty space. The issue is working it for a couple hours were 50% of the time it would be under high amp draw. You might get it to load a truck but to dig a hole or trench I fear you would not be happy. You don't have an weight issue you have a space issue. But i'm not an engineer.

a lineman, electrician with welding and fabrication abilities. J mantzel built a solar dozer on his island in Panama. he has the build series on it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5nXKZZNVWvw

JIMMY_J said:

My motivation is a passion for all things electric. And the fact i may have a huge cast block that now needs to be pulled out takes to a machine shop and have the cylinders re sleeved, then a full engine rebuild. Lots of money and worse then that lots of time.

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If you have to keep the block in to hold the front axle on, then fitting the motor becomes an issue, as does space for batteries.
FYI.. if you decide to keep it as a Diesel with a rebuild.. $450 for the kit..pistons, bearings, seals Gaskets etc.
Not a major job for a Ag mechanic,.. could be done in your barn.
https://www.agkits.com/Ford-201-Diesel-Engine-Rebuild-Kit.aspx#.X2gyasp_WhA

Hillhater said:

FYI.. if you decide to keep it as a Diesel with a rebuild.. $450 for the kit..pistons, bearings, seals Gaskets etc.

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Breathe deep the poison! Hasten sweet death for man, woman, child, beast, and fowl! Huzzah!