Adding regen/electric to ICE car

Is this in any way feasible or worth it? Is there any way to add electrics to even just one of the wheels on a front wheel drive automatic Civic?

If my car had some form of regen, I'd feel much better about driving it and I wouldn't have so much anxiety as I approach green lights (don't you hate it when they turn yellow just soon enough to make you slam your brakes on?).

veloman said:

Is this in any way feasible or worth it? Is there any way to add electrics to even just one of the wheels on a front wheel drive automatic Civic?

If my car had some form of regen, I'd feel much better about driving it and I wouldn't have so much anxiety as I approach green lights (don't you hate it when they turn yellow just soon enough to make you slam your brakes on?).

Click to expand...

The amount of money you spend with whats currently availible will far out weigh the amount saved! But I have this planed for performance reasons to both rear wheels on my 2004 srt4!

I think it can be done easily but will not be cheep $1000-$5000 a side or more! But then when one day the ICE engine dies I will just electrify the front too!

Not worth it. Mild hybrid systems do not pay for themselves at all. There is also the challenge of making basically custom axles for that specific car; that's a pain in the ass.

It would cost you less money to do an electric conversion with a used forklift motor ( sometimes you can find these free ) and lead acid batteries. I have seen people do this for under $2000.

An automatic transmission is also the worst transmission you can get, in terms of fuel economy. One thing that pre '08 automatics lack is deceleration fuel cut off, meaning that they continue to put gas into the motor as you coast to a stoplight. With a manual transmission, if you're above about 1000rpm, the inertia of the car keeps the motor spinning as you coast to a stoplight.

If you want to save some gas in stop and go, buy a manual car or do an electric conversion! some sort of aftermarket hybrid system would be more expensive than anything else, and offer you a very minimal improvement ( especially considering you have an automatic.. )

My 69 road runner in the picture has fuel cut to 1200 rpm I built a megasquirt efi ecu for it so I can do what I want. It is an automatic with a 2500rpm stall so fuel cut was a pain to get working right but its awesome. My 2004 srt4 MANUAL TRANNY only fuel cuts some times if the planets all align and it only cuts abouve 1800 rpm. Point being autos are not always bad and in fact some of the new cars get better fuel econamy with the autos then the manuals! As for not being worth it, its not in terms of money but if there is other reasons then it maybe worth it. You can put regen on the rear wheels if you are creative enough quite easily just adapt to a hub on the back with a drive axle through it!

That's what I thought, not worth the money or effort.

I feel like I'm back to square one, going in circles.

I like the car because it's safe, can go whatever speed I choose (within reason), shelter from elements, can carry things/passengers, and can carry all my belongings when I want to move again.

I don't like the car because it's oil industry dependent, inefficient for simple transportation, and very not-fun to drive in stop and go town roads.

I like to road bike because it's fun and can take me places, often within a reasonable amount of time. Downsides are that I don't feel safe at times, underpowered on any uphill, and require a shower/change of clothes when I'm done.

An electric kit on a mtn bike works to reduce my need to shower, but is still not fast enough to make me feel safe. It is very efficient in terms of energy, but not as efficient as the road bike. The mtn bike is also not comfortable at all - I need a massive dorky seat, and upright inefficient position. It still is underpowered on hills, but I COULD go for a massive high power hub motor setup to fix that.

This all leads me to: keeping my car for when necessary. I would also keep my road bike for fun sport riding like I've always done. For in town transportation, I would build an electric scooter, possibly get a gas one that needs repair and put a high powered electric motor on it. The scooter beats the ebike for reasons: much more places to mount the batteries and motor low, and much better protection from light rain and wet roads. The scooter also lends itself to the possibility of aero mods. Also, smaller wheels for better motor performance / less reduction, and much more comfortable with the large seat and normal upright position. Downsides to the scooter: need significantly more battery and cost more, but still nowhere near as much as a car conversion. That's about the only downsides to the scooter.

Don't go in circles, just do an EV conversion or ride an eBike and use the eBike for all your short trips

I have a ~30mpg car and i don't like it either. But i figure i am at least using the gasoline in an efficient matter if i use it only for long trips, or to carry 2 people ( rare occurrence ).

Want a comfortable eBike? get either a hybrid, or a mountain bike and add a fat seat and hybrid bike handlebars, viola. You have a hybrid. The difference is mainly in those two parts, and skinnier tires. I sold my Hybrid because it was all aluminum and got a light mountain bike, added comfort parts.. now it's just as good.

I don't know what kind of power you want on an eBike, but i would say car-like power is on the unsafe side for sure. I am going for a light eBike setup ( geared hub motor and LiPO batteries ) that doesn't interfere with pedaling and adds ~15lb or so to the bike; totally liveable. Another option is the kepler drive which could put you in at only a few pounds total for electric assist!

IMHO forget about improving on the car. Be lucky you have a Civic and not an SUV or something; those will be scrap metal when peak oil starts rearing it's ugly head; projected to occur sometime this decade.

I'm also interested in adding electric power to an ICE car. My race car has a Suzuki GSXR1000 (K8) engine and I like the idea of adding power through electric power. Aside from the issue of hooking up an extra input shaft somewhere to get drive to the wheels, what motor/controller combo would I go for? I don't need regen as sprint events are normally less than 90 seconds duration. The Predator motors give about 7.9w per gram, whereas running an ADC 8" at 120v/800A gives just 2w per gram. Clearly, I'm looking at double the weight, which is critical for a car that currently weighs just 475kg and I hope to pull 50kg from it over the winter. I'd rather use one or two motors and I'd like somewhere in the region of 60-70KW peak power. I also don't want to be shelling out £5k ($10k) on a motor. The best power/weight I can find is a Plettenberg Predator 37, that gives 15KW for 1900g (7.9w per gram) and is only just over £800. Four of these gives me my 60KW requirement, which is better than the huge number of HXTs required and the massive penalty of 50kg for an ADC!

Any comments on this setup:
PolyQuest Nano 5000mAH 14S3P
4 x Schulze Future 40-160H (allegedly can cope with 300A)
4 x Plettenberg Predator 37

Anything wrong with this (other than having to split packs to get 14S)? Are there any better solutions?

the guy who developed the IMA hack for the honda insight hybrid(99mpg.com)? and added all the SLA to it used a small wheel under the rear to help support the weight of the extra batteries in back. built using parts from a scrapped exercise machine as i recall. he used pneumatic cylinder to extend the wheel down, with a small air pump and used the spare tire as the air pressure reservoir.

but if you wanted to add electric assist to your car, why not do something similar and use some type of drive to push the car when you wanted electric drive, such as in traffic when it is stop and go slow for miles or hours depending on the city. the when the road is high speed again go back to ICE power, retract the small 5th wheel up into a bomb bay type opening through the trunk area, where the extra batteries would be. that would get over the major push ups, get you to EV mode in traffic where it is most useful, and retain long range serviceability.

That was my original design thought, actually. A 5th wheel that would retrack down when I wanted electric power/regen.

But still, to do anything meaningful will require tons of money and fabrication. I'm really just better off using an ebike for as many trips as possible.

Hey Velo,.,,yeah i thought the same thing !! heres my thread... http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=16652&p=243951&hilit=bus+wheel+regen#p243951

i still think it could work,

mike

This is the most promising technology, IMO. No motor, no batteries, just pure kinetic energy.

http://www.flybridsystems.com/


I would like to build something on a smaller scale for my bike.... for proof of concept. A lightweight bike needs very little braking usage in typical riding terrain.

What I plan to do, is, take a waterproof Alternator, and mount it to the drive shaft, just like Race cars do. Put a switch on the gear shift lever. When ever you need to slow down, especially on a downhill, just flip the switch to activate the electric clutch on the front of the alternator.

NOW, is it not true that an Alternator put out high voltage if turning without Diodes ?? If so, higher voltages can be rectified to match the drive battery voltages, right ?? Is it not also true, that, Simply ?? putting Diodes across the output leads of the Alternator, will allow the BATTERY BANK to control the voltage, same as a Voltage regulator ??

If a 24V- 250 A alternator puts out, (lets talk max here for discussion sake) 6000 Watts max, that would be the same as 41.6 Amps at 144 volts, right ?? OK, figure losses in conversions and whatever, and, you would still get over 35 Amps on downhill and could activate the Alternator upon closing on slower or stopped traffic.

There are also 320 Amp Alternators, out there. That would give Max, 53 Amps @ 144 V. I bought a Brand Spanking New Leece neville 24V @ 250A, for $100.00 off Ebay.

Maybe I'm all wet on this, but, I think not ???

veloman said:

Is this in any way feasible or worth it? Is there any way to add electrics to even just one of the wheels on a front wheel drive automatic Civic?

If my car had some form of regen, I'd feel much better about driving it and I wouldn't have so much anxiety as I approach green lights (don't you hate it when they turn yellow just soon enough to make you slam your brakes on?).

Click to expand...

I hate it so much that I like to drive in very light traffic and time the lights, if I take the ICE car out on the road (which I have avoided for months now). Keeping the speed around 25mph helps a lot, too, since that gives the car a whole lot less kinetic energy.