Reliable and Powerful 11-13 inch 72V+ Hub Motor for High-Performance E-Scooter

Lightweight / Folding / Portable EVs - seats optional
Post Reply
Chricious   1 mW

1 mW
Posts: 10
Joined: Nov 05 2019 7:38am

Reliable and Powerful 11-13 inch 72V+ Hub Motor for High-Performance E-Scooter

Post by Chricious » Apr 28 2020 2:12pm

Hi guys,

I am looking for a good hub motor for a DIY project. The idea is to build a scooter which is faster than the current available scooter on the market like the Dualtron X, Weeped SS, Zero 11x. I know there are also the very expensive Rion scooters which play in a different class.

I am planing to use the ASI BAC 8000 and to max it out with a 20S10P Samsung 40T battery combined with a smart BMS like the Speedict 150A.

I will probably take a bare bone chassis with dual hydraulic suspension, dual hydraulic disc brakes (Magura MT7) and install the dual motors and electronics.

Peak power should be about 180A-200A total battery / 160A per motor at 72V.
Top speed >100km/h and the range will be ~100km

I have found Lunyee motors like these two so far
https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/ ... ypass=true
https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/ ... ypass=true

If you have any better suggestions, please feel free to share.

PS: It should be BL, gearless and with hall and temperature sensor in best case. I plan to run it in FOC.
Last edited by Chricious on Jan 05 2021 4:09pm, edited 1 time in total.

Ianhill   100 MW

100 MW
Posts: 2529
Joined: Sep 25 2015 5:55pm

Re: Reliable and Powerful 11-13 inch 72V+ Hub Motor for High-Performance E-Scooter

Post by Ianhill » Apr 28 2020 7:16pm

They look like qs hub motors to me, two of them on a scooter running close on 15kw peaks will be a death trap takes a special type of person to want to build this great respect for life needs to be taken.

The ride itself is possible the 10 inch model I would suggest as there's excellent quality pmt racing tyres available with super sticky compounds.

Only thing I spot wrong with your plan is the brakes the discs available for the motorbike hub motors vs dualtron that uses mtb disc brakes is the thickness of disc so the magura caliper will bind the disc it's too thick for a mtb spec caliper, you can use any decent 4 pot motocross brakes that suit mind just got to use the post mount dimensions to suit for mounting.

I'll ask you a serious question have you rode a fast scooter to realize just how much more crazy two of them motors would be they can touch 70 mph on 20s and can go upto 32s where you could be doing triple digit figures instant death striking a wall etc so be wise if you must build it and it's hell of a ride to build do it right and use it responsibly or it might just be ☠

Chricious   1 mW

1 mW
Posts: 10
Joined: Nov 05 2019 7:38am

Re: Reliable and Powerful 11-13 inch 72V+ Hub Motor for High-Performance E-Scooter

Post by Chricious » Apr 29 2020 5:11am

Thank you for your answer and the great information you provide.
Ianhill wrote:
Apr 28 2020 7:16pm
They look like qs hub motors to me, two of them on a scooter running close on 15kw peaks will be a death trap takes a special type of person to want to build this great respect for life needs to be taken.
Yes you are totally right about that. Responsable riding with adequate protection is a must.
Ianhill wrote:
Apr 28 2020 7:16pm
The ride itself is possible the 10 inch model I would suggest as there's excellent quality pmt racing tyres available with super sticky compounds.


Do you have a link to the specific tires you are referring to? I find 10" quite small tbh. Everything under 15-16" gets even unstable with higher speeds. I never tested the Dualtron X, but I think there must be a good reason for why they went on 13" on that model.
Ianhill wrote:
Apr 28 2020 7:16pm
Only thing I spot wrong with your plan is the brakes the discs available for the motorbike hub motors vs dualtron that uses mtb disc brakes is the thickness of disc so the magura caliper will bind the disc it's too thick for a mtb spec caliper, you can use any decent 4 pot motocross brakes that suit mind just got to use the post mount dimensions to suit for mounting.
Thank you for bringing this up. Didn't thought about MX brakes. I was planing to use Magura discs, calipers and levers. Do you have a recommendation for a decent MX brake?
If the weight difference is not too big, it shouldn't be a problem.
Ianhill wrote:
Apr 28 2020 7:16pm
I'll ask you a serious question have you rode a fast scooter to realize just how much more crazy two of them motors would be they can touch 70 mph on 20s and can go upto 32s where you could be doing triple digit figures instant death striking a wall etc so be wise if you must build it and it's hell of a ride to build do it right and use it responsibly or it might just be ☠
I've never ridden an e-scooter so powerful. I have just experience with 3200W dual motor e-scooters. But I have ridden 145kW e-bikes and 10KW electric skateboards, if that counts. Thank you again for the awareness.

I made some interesting finds though. I figured out, that almost every performance scooter is using apparently the same motor which is this one:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32870227208.html

So they just differ in the batteries and ESCs power wise. I hope the motors can take so much current without overheating.

Does anyone have some experiences on the limits with those motors?

Ianhill   100 MW

100 MW
Posts: 2529
Joined: Sep 25 2015 5:55pm

Re: Reliable and Powerful 11-13 inch 72V+ Hub Motor for High-Performance E-Scooter

Post by Ianhill » Apr 29 2020 12:19pm

I not been on a dualtron ive got one the hubs and run it at 48v but dont really rate it well for as a crazy high power build theres not much left in them to overpower from stock, most I had was a 48v 1600w brushless scooter of old and modded it with 16s Lipo and 58amp controller got me to 48mph on the flat with enough accel to keep up with calm traffic no issues.

What you would have of you complete this project will be on another level.

The wheels are giroscopic so a smaller wheel gives better low speed turn in at the expense of high speed stability I suppose 100mph on 10inch tyres is at the limit any speed wobble would be game over the larger tyre will help protect from that at high speed but a slalom would suffer slower to tip the nose in.

Thing is if people have been 70mph on a 6.5 tyre I'm sure the higher quality 10 will get what's needed out of this ride they do close on 80mph on pit bikes in racing.

Chricious   1 mW

1 mW
Posts: 10
Joined: Nov 05 2019 7:38am

Re: Reliable and Powerful 11-13 inch 72V+ Hub Motor for High-Performance E-Scooter

Post by Chricious » May 01 2020 5:05am

Ianhill wrote:
Apr 29 2020 12:19pm
Thing is if people have been 70mph on a 6.5 tyre I'm sure the higher quality 10 will get what's needed out of this ride they do close on 80mph on pit bikes in racing.
I don't know, if we are talking about the same. I'm referring to total wheel diameter on a standup scooter. I wouldn't attempt to over 40mph on a 6.5" tire or more than 60mph on a 10".

I think 11" like the Dualtron Thunder, Weepd SS-R, Zero 11x, Wolf Warrior 11, Quiewa Qpower, is really the least you shout have, I'd prefer 13" linke in the Dualtron X.

I'm just wondering, if all these 11" hub motor wheels are from QS, or if there are some differences. Does anybody have some inside information about that?

I've also found this motor https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/ ... 53218.html

They claim to be a factory and the manufacturer of the Dualtron motors. I'm not sure about that, but in the video you can see how they go 150km/h on a scooter. Ofc, it could be just a higher custom KV version of a QS motor, but nevertheless impressive.

Ianhill   100 MW

100 MW
Posts: 2529
Joined: Sep 25 2015 5:55pm

Re: Reliable and Powerful 11-13 inch 72V+ Hub Motor for High-Performance E-Scooter

Post by Ianhill » May 01 2020 3:20pm

11 inch is the total diameter of a tyre for a 6.5 rim both the same thing.
The larger rims like 10inch that I mentioned is the rim diameter 13inch is the total wheel.

HTTR   1 mW

1 mW
Posts: 15
Joined: Nov 06 2020 4:43pm

Re: Reliable and Powerful 11-13 inch 72V+ Hub Motor for High-Performance E-Scooter

Post by HTTR » Jan 19 2021 4:43pm

- Get a cheap second hand Thunder as the base.
- Throw away / sell the battery and controllers.
- Build your 20s10P 40T pack which now has enaugh space to fit in the frame. You'll need to build deck riser of 2cm, to accommodate the extra height of the pack due to the 21700 cells.
- Now there is no room for the controllers in the deck so you’ll need to build something to fix them on the stem.
- Upgrade the motor wires to 12 AWG or better yet 10AWG high temp silicone cables and add the hall sensors. This will require drilling the axel at its 14 AWG no halls stock.
- Upgrade the motor bearings to high quality ones.
- While you are at it, you can tropicalize the motos as well since you are there.

- Brakes: I know what the review say but in practice, on a scooter, there is little effective difference between the MT5 and MT7 but if your inclined to splurge the top of the top are the Hope Tech 3 E4. For the marugra you’ll need to invert the banjo for tire clearance. Either way you’ll want to upgrade the brake bracket from the chinesium ones. At minimum, for the Magura, a cheap Russian (https://dualtron-rus.ru) steel copy or some of the carborevo (www.carbonrevo.com) 7075 aluminum ones which significantly improve bite as the angle is better. For the Hope you’ll full KenSonken Engeneering kit (www.fastride.fr) and it will make your life a lot easier for the Magura as well but its not cheap. The Carbonrevo and Ken Sonken kits give you a spacer-adapter which adds space for caliper clearance (spacer) while converting the brake hole pitch from the off stock 48mm to the standard 44mm (adapter) allowin you to install any MTB rotor on your system.

- Put some PMT Stradale B 90/65-r6.5 in the front and 110/50-r6.5 in the rear (www.fastride.fr). There is very little air in these donuts wheels so you want something with structure to give you some stability while you stop. Cheap Chinese tires are soft and they puncture fast and those tires will be off the rim in under 5 seconds from even a medium puncture at speed while you take the asphalt temperature challenge.

- Absolutely get a KenSonken or similar Steering Damper kit . It’s a phenomenal improvement and eliminates the Death Wobble. Not 100 percent mandatory at first but you’ll soon want to also upgrade the stem folding mechanism, the Achilles heal of all pre-Storm dualtrons ... again Ken Sonken is the best.

- Slap on a pair of Nucular 12 F controllers (forget about the ASI) and a ant bms 300A and you’ll be able to reach 100Km/h but it will take some time to get there. If you’re really into thee 100 Km/h then you’ll need a custom windage motor and/or move passed the 20S pack.


And, BTW … all wheel are for 6.5 inch hubs and the max you can fit in the thunder frame is 110/50-r6.5 which is an 11 inch tire but some scooters fit the 13x5.00-r6.5 which is a 13 inch tire on some scooters like the Hunter M1 or some FMJ and there are some Russians who produce swing arms to put thos tires on a thunder frame but you’ll screw up the geometry.

But since the question was about reliable motors, the RW:Tech (www.racewerks.tech/) is a pretty good place to start. The’ll work with you to customize the motor to your system and you can have it all upgraded in terms of cables and bearings … decent prices too but the shipping cost adds up to making these a very expensive option. If that does not work out for you you can try Tune Extreme (look on Facebook).
Last edited by HTTR on Jan 20 2021 1:39pm, edited 1 time in total.

Chricious   1 mW

1 mW
Posts: 10
Joined: Nov 05 2019 7:38am

Re: Reliable and Powerful 11-13 inch 72V+ Hub Motor for High-Performance E-Scooter

Post by Chricious » Jan 20 2021 7:18am

Thank you for the ton of information!

I will go through it.

Ianhill   100 MW

100 MW
Posts: 2529
Joined: Sep 25 2015 5:55pm

Re: Reliable and Powerful 11-13 inch 72V+ Hub Motor for High-Performance E-Scooter

Post by Ianhill » Feb 04 2021 5:05pm

If you look on aliexpress theres a 3500w 6.5inch hub for the flj sk3 scooter.

These bad boys run as a pair will reach over 95mph on 24s current required depends on your weight if your big you may not get there on a stand up but still its damn fast for something that could be squeezed into a minimoto frame.

Last year all my toys broke scooter and kuberg freerider and i threw my dummy right out of the pram but its time for me to create my master piece im going for triple figures on a ride i can pick up under my arm.

And a second ride will be my chopper cruiser using just one dualtron ultra hub and a same size non powered front wheel on a 27.5 mountain bike frame 150 fatbike front fork and bmx handle bars for all i can explain as a mini choppper that looks bad ass sit low to the floor ive never seen anything like it will be a complete one off

Scootdan   1 mW

1 mW
Posts: 18
Joined: Mar 19 2021 2:37am

Re: Reliable and Powerful 11-13 inch 72V+ Hub Motor for High-Performance E-Scooter

Post by Scootdan » Apr 11 2021 2:49am

Nice to see some other daredevils here wanting more than the Dualtron X II can give us. I am also trying to build my own high performance scooter and it is pretty wild so far. It uses two monster e motorcycle motor wheels and crazy controllers. I will post a picture of the rear wheel on a test stand. So far I am about half done, so hopefully rolling by summer. Best regards guys.

Scootdan   1 mW

1 mW
Posts: 18
Joined: Mar 19 2021 2:37am

Re: Reliable and Powerful 11-13 inch 72V+ Hub Motor for High-Performance E-Scooter

Post by Scootdan » Apr 11 2021 2:51am

D1565FFB-668F-4FC1-AB19-1AE24CF438B7.jpeg
MONSTER!
D1565FFB-668F-4FC1-AB19-1AE24CF438B7.jpeg (3.11 MiB) Viewed 1062 times

Ianhill   100 MW

100 MW
Posts: 2529
Joined: Sep 25 2015 5:55pm

Re: Reliable and Powerful 11-13 inch 72V+ Hub Motor for High-Performance E-Scooter

Post by Ianhill » Apr 11 2021 11:37am

Whats your pack config, controllers using and top speed aiming for because those wheels in right setup specially as a pair will go just under 120mph i think from kv rating at 32s and with high amps be damn hard to hold on too need to lean in lol.

Keep us updated i like to see and help where i can, keep the daredevil life up love it.

Scootdan   1 mW

1 mW
Posts: 18
Joined: Mar 19 2021 2:37am

Re: Reliable and Powerful 11-13 inch 72V+ Hub Motor for High-Performance E-Scooter

Post by Scootdan » Apr 14 2021 12:33pm

I am having some serious fun now! Two motors, two controllers, one battery, one throttle = Monster scoot. Just learned how to limit my battery current to 80a and OMG! POWER! Still on the test stand, but now I am so looking forward to riding this ghastly beast! Thanks for the encouragement friends. Hopefully more soon.
Attachments
30D11C28-1D27-4483-BE9E-5194DA3B45B1.jpeg
Monster test stand
30D11C28-1D27-4483-BE9E-5194DA3B45B1.jpeg (3.49 MiB) Viewed 970 times

Scootdan   1 mW

1 mW
Posts: 18
Joined: Mar 19 2021 2:37am

Re: Reliable and Powerful 11-13 inch 72V+ Hub Motor for High-Performance E-Scooter

Post by Scootdan » Apr 14 2021 1:00pm

Forgot about battery. I don’t know much but it is a 72v 35ah battery with a 100a BMS rated for 6000w. I just found out that it is about 200a instantaneous peak phase power. The controllers are APT 96800s and I am smitten! I may want to limit top rpm if too scary but once I can prove safe I would like to, maybe, see how fast it can go. I am pretty confident I won’t need more power than these motors and controllers can provide! I can only dream of what this would be with the 96v 300a battery, or larger, that it is designed for! OMG. I think I will learn how to ride that in the parking lot of the local emergency room first! I am guessing from the speed of these wheels it should be around 65mph top speed with my tiny battery, so that might be all I can handle for now. So exciting.🙃

Ianhill   100 MW

100 MW
Posts: 2529
Joined: Sep 25 2015 5:55pm

Re: Reliable and Powerful 11-13 inch 72V+ Hub Motor for High-Performance E-Scooter

Post by Ianhill » Apr 14 2021 1:16pm

:twisted: :evil:


Haha test it in the hospital car park with you will in your pocket and undertaker on speed dial lmao u be fine take all normal precautions, wang cup elbow and knee pads.

Scootdan   1 mW

1 mW
Posts: 18
Joined: Mar 19 2021 2:37am

Re: Reliable and Powerful 11-13 inch 72V+ Hub Motor for High-Performance E-Scooter

Post by Scootdan » Apr 14 2021 7:20pm

Hehe! Totally sounds like what my wife says. Insurance agent on her speed dial right!? I am thinking more and more this scoot should have some serious capabilities. I keep thinking of riding up stairs and riding on the sand dunes! Two motors with wide, high flotation tires and very low overall weight. Could be epic.... what kind of hills or grades could this monster pull? And top speed.......... I need to start doing some push ups brother! Best regards.

Ianhill   100 MW

100 MW
Posts: 2529
Joined: Sep 25 2015 5:55pm

Re: Reliable and Powerful 11-13 inch 72V+ Hub Motor for High-Performance E-Scooter

Post by Ianhill » Apr 15 2021 5:56am

Scootdan wrote:
Apr 14 2021 7:20pm
Hehe! Totally sounds like what my wife says. Insurance agent on her speed dial right!? I am thinking more and more this scoot should have some serious capabilities. I keep thinking of riding up stairs and riding on the sand dunes! Two motors with wide, high flotation tires and very low overall weight. Could be epic.... what kind of hills or grades could this monster pull? And top speed.......... I need to start doing some push ups brother! Best regards.
Push ups lol you may want to be investing heavily in the bionic limbs industries.

I had a serious moment on a 45mph scooter, hit a humpback bridge complete air born landed into a speed wobble and manage to hold it, to my either side was half cut metal poles coming out the ground id of been impaled no doubt i come off.
Least to say i dont ride that way no more.

When i joined the forum a guy had broke both wrists ride same as my not so fast, sold my original rszor scooter the guy came off had a compound fracture to his leg so yea they can be bit dodgy on times, touch wood the scooter was fine another guy had it and its still on the road its the inspiration for my heritage scooter along with blackpool trams making the brushed dc sound.

Ianhill   100 MW

100 MW
Posts: 2529
Joined: Sep 25 2015 5:55pm

Re: Reliable and Powerful 11-13 inch 72V+ Hub Motor for High-Performance E-Scooter

Post by Ianhill » Apr 21 2021 9:59am

Imagine a scooter so well thought out its got a drs wing on the back and runs downforce like an f1 car.

I think rion have had a good go at this but its a hyper scooter that is manufacture based and looking at its design it creates lift i think its time a self funded private entry shows these guys what evolutionary tech really looks like and tare the rule book up like group b rally did.

Ive got plenty of ideas over the years but designing and building such a master piece right 1st time would take all of me concentrate on nothing but that till thers a nod and a wink and out pops a gt40 scooter clean as can be 32s worth of raging lipo waiting to scare the life out of the most hardened.

Post Reply