Broomstick Number Two

Nils

10 mW
Joined
May 11, 2020
Messages
21
Well, this is more like broomstick number four, but it's hard to give an exact count. Needless to say there were many that came before this. So, what is a broomstick and how does is relate to e-vehicles? Presumably at some point you've seen a witch riding a broom. This is the same thing except the witch is on skis, the broomstick has a big motor, and there is a handlebar to hold onto. So, some upgrades over the traditional witches broom, but the mechanics of riding the thing are the same.

The idea was born a couple years back while using a power-broom attachment on a weedwhacker. Turn that thing around, straddle it with some skis and you've got yourself a seriously good time. Sadly, the power-broom never realized it's full transportation potential, as around the same time I got my first ebike. From then on everything seemed like it could, or should, have an electric motor. (e-shoes, e-stroller, e-pulk, e-wheelbarrow, etc...) I imagine the majority of people on this site have experienced a similar e-enlightenment at some point or another. Anyway, the broomstick was electrified and it's been a wild ride since.

Like I mentioned, there have been a few iterations. The most recent and well used ones have been built around ~2kW hub motors laced to 20" rims. 20" rims seemed a good balance of minimizing wheel diameter for torque/overheating reasons and still being large enough to fit a decent sized hub motor. On top of that there is a good selection of 20" fat bike tires that in normal times are readily available (A little harder during a pandemic).

The first serious broomstick used a Gmac, phaserunner, and three Milwaukee M18 12.0 batteries. The broomstick part of it was an old carbon fiber oar shaft. This setup opened my eyes to the potential but had its limitations. In order to get traction in certain snow conditions (chopped up new snow) I would wrap a snow machine track around the tire, which worked great, but had the adverse effect of causing the motor to overheat. From what I can tell, geared hub motors are hard to cool without filling with ATF or some similar such thing. I didn't really want to go that route, and without the track on, overheating is a non-issue (groomed trail/crust conditions). Also the oar shaft, being tapered, was really hard to clamp to without crushing. Occasionally the shaft would rotate within the bike stem, which would cause the broomstick wheel to shoot out sideways and take out your legs. While this provided a little added excitement it wasn't exactly ideal. Eventually the oar shaft was replaced with some 80/20 extrusion (torsionally flimsy though easy to attach to). And finally, the continuous draw from this thing (often 1800-2000W) was just too much for the batteries and they took a bit of a lifecycle hit (However they do have a 3 year warrantee, which is hard to match with any ebike battery).

The original GMAC version -
Broomstick_01.jpg
Broomstick_02.jpg

So ideally I needed better traction, less overheating, more battery, and a stiffer broomstick. I settled on a DD45 because Justin from Grin suggested it would be hard to overheat with the max phase current a phaserunner is capable of (Still possible, but without statorade and in certain low RPM high torque applications. Haven't gotten over 60C with statorade). Traction wise, the snow machine track is the best I have, though will still bog down in deep new snow. The M18 batteries were switched out for parallel 14s5p 30q EM3EV batteries (essentially a 14s10p battery), which seem to handle 50Amps continuous without too much trouble. And the 80/20 was replaced with an aluminium tube with an ID to match fork steerers (1 1/8") and OD to match an odd stem standard (1 1/4"). The result is a lot stiffer and simpler than previous generations. On top of this I added a little extra rake to the fork, which improves the overall handling. It could be better, but it's a pretty mean machine as is.

Upgraded DD45 Version -
Broomstick_03.jpg
Broomstick_04.jpg
Broomstick_06.jpg
Broomstick_05.jpg

With the studded ice tire -
Broomstick_07.jpg

Adding some rake to the forks. I just used a 1" EMT bender and they came out pretty well. Not sure what the sunscreen is doing there.
Broomstick_08.jpg

Here's a look at the DD45 version riding some singletrack
[youtube]x4ruIxY7i1U[/youtube]

And a view from the side
[youtube]zDZreKX2fcg[/youtube]

Some Spring time broomsticking from last year-
[youtube]wEWWz7TvwNs[/youtube]

So far I've used it with a studded track and hockey skates, a normal tire and nordic skis, and tracked with touring skis. At this point I've pretty much given up on the nordic skis as there is enough power that it gets pretty hairy. Still need to solve the traction issue in deeper snow and ideally work out a geared version. I have a 3 spd hub and cyc x1 pro that I would like to combine into a more burly broomstick but am having trouble finding the time.

Not sure what I was trying to do here, Re-invent the bicycle with 80/20?
Broomstick_10.jpg

Too much fun-
Broomstick_09.jpg
 
Awesome! :bigthumb:
What a ride that must be :lol:
If that motor hasn't heated up over 60*C then it is time to go to a controller capable of more phase amps. What is your battery pack capable of as peak amps go?
 
thepronghorn said:
This is really cool. How does it do up hills? Do your arms get tired?

It does alright on hills as long as you keep moving. If you bog down on a steeper section then it has some trouble getting back going. Ideally I would be able to start from a stand still while pointing up a steep hill, but I'm not there yet. As I understand it, options are limited with a hub motor - more phase amps (different controller), smaller diameter wheel (this would be more prone to digging in soft conditions), different gearing for the GMAC (I asked the folks at Grin about this and it sounds as though the sun gear is about as small as it can get). Maybe I'm missing something here?

I don't notice my arms getting too tired but I also use it somewhat regularly. The first time you try it, you get the pump in your throttle forearm. It's similar to the feeling you get when you're bad at rock climbing (me) and only get out once or twice a year. On the steeper hills/for better traction I bring the broomstick more vertical and try to put as much weight down as possible, which is a little hard on the arms but you can also rest the batteries against the back of your legs in that position.
 
SlowCo said:
If that motor hasn't heated up over 60*C then it is time to go to a controller capable of more phase amps. What is your battery pack capable of as peak amps go?

The battery should be capable of quite a lot more than I'm using it for. Looking on the EM3EV specs it says that this battery with 30q cells can do 38A continuous and 55A burst. I have two in parallel so should be able to get quite a lot more than the 50A peaks I'm currently seeing. I have a BAC2000 on another build that would heat this thing right up!
 
Nils said:
The battery should be capable of quite a lot more than I'm using it for. Looking on the EM3EV specs it says that this battery with 30q cells can do 38A continuous and 55A burst. I have two in parallel so should be able to get quite a lot more than the 50A peaks I'm currently seeing. I have a BAC2000 on another build that would heat this thing right up!

Then trying the BAC2000 with 100A peak setting would be great to see what the temperature of the motor will be during a ride/slide uphill!
And although your "Broomstick" is fantastic in it's simplistic form (in a very positive way!) I think you will have to go to an electric "snowbike" if you want to up the power seriously and still keep your arms intact :lol:

Something like this with electric motor would be awesome:


Snowbike.jpeg



Or use something like a Sur Ron converted to this:


Snowmotorbike.jpg
 
SlowCo said:
Although we don't have mountains or snow this thread made me search whats available in electric snow bikes and this is a great idea:
https://envodrive.com/product/envo-electric-snowbike-kit/
Although a higher power hub motor (QS205/273) would even be better!

The Envodrive would be great - if they included the damned snowboard for the front. Lots of people have or can easily acquire an unused bicycle, but few have unused snowboards lying around.
 
LeftieBiker said:
Wouldn't it be better with a seat/crotch protector?

It might be, though depending on terrain your position relative to the broomstick changes quite a lot. I'm not sure how to place the seat so it doesn't get in the way. For what it's worth your crotch hasn't take too much of a beating! This probably depends on riding style and terrain but for the most part there's some buffer space.

Funny coincidence, but I have a leaf that just stopped going into ready mode. About the same time you posted here, I was reading trouble shooting suggestions you had made on a nissan leaf forum. Or at least I'm guessing it was you based on the username, location, and vehicle info.
 
Nils said:
In the last week at least five people have pointed this thing out. It looks like it does everything that I'm after! Just need to electrify it!

You need to buy an ATV/go kart snow track conversion kit like this:
https://nl.aliexpress.com/item/1005...68#1000022185#1000066058#0_668#3468#15612#350


Track.jpg


And put a high speed wind hub motor like a QS205 V3 in the aluminium drive wheel (replacing the black plastic one) for the track: https://nl.aliexpress.com/item/1005001958791342.html?spm=a2g0z.12010612.8148356.6.56f36412PxiK19

Track drive wheel.jpg


Mate that with a Nucular 24F and a battery pack capable of 10kW continuous and 15+kW peak ad you're good to go/snow :lol:
I would then advise to build it more like the SkiZee as that pushes you forward without only pulling your arms off at 10+kW...

Nucular controllers: https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=75494
Or Powervelocity: https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=99621
 
I was looking at something like that, though I didn't think of using a hub motor as the drive sprocket. Sort of like melding the endodrive with the skizee. I think for now I'm going to try and get the BAC 2000 up and running with the motor from a CYC X1 kit. See if that will pull my arms off.

I've read a little about these nucular controllers and they sound like a more user friendly version of the ASI controllers. Lots of good reviews out there but I've also heard there is a several month lead time on ordering.
 
LeftieBiker said:
Lots of people have or can easily acquire an unused bicycle, but few have unused snowboards lying around.

Strangely, these are a reasonably common item to find at goodwill around here.
 
Even random back alleys you might be able to find skis or a snowboard, especially in resort towns. I would do the broomstick motor with cross country bindings and boots but probably use downhill ski's as they are wider and better for powder then xc skis . Depends on what your riding. There is even ultra wide powder skis.

Might even run across something like this, midnight special.
11.jpg
 
It must be a regional thing. I've never seen a snowboard outside of a ski shop or ski resort video.
 
A surfeit of snowboards in the desert, and a real shortage of them in NY Ski Country. Strange times indeed.
 
Nils said:
I was looking at something like that, though I didn't think of using a hub motor as the drive sprocket. Sort of like melding the endodrive with the skizee. I think for now I'm going to try and get the BAC 2000 up and running with the motor from a CYC X1 kit. See if that will pull my arms off.

I've read a little about these nucular controllers and they sound like a more user friendly version of the ASI controllers. Lots of good reviews out there but I've also heard there is a several month lead time on ordering.

Why not wire up the BAC2000 you already have to the hub motor of your "Broomstick"? Just be sure to program the controller to the maximum (cont/peak) amps the battery packs can provide. That should give you enough extra push/pull uphill without overheating the motor.
 
https://youtu.be/XKkms6hYJQQ?t=103
Nothing strange about skiing/boarding the sand dunes, Warren Miller Films/Greg Stump started it waaaay back in the day when snow boarding was banned on ski mountains, back when Kayaking down snow covered mountains started. Back in the Glen Plake days. Starting from Yuichiro Miura and Keizo Miura in the 1970's skiing down Everst and Fuji.


The OP's setup would absolutely rock on sand to!
So many practical applications: roller blades and motored stick.
edit - Canoe, Kayak, Surfboard. It can be a multi-purpose motorized broomstick.
 
SlowCo said:
Why not wire up the BAC2000 you already have to the hub motor of your "Broomstick"? Just be sure to program the controller to the maximum (cont/peak) amps the battery packs can provide. That should give you enough extra push/pull uphill without overheating the motor.

This would probably be the most sensible thing, but I'm intimidated by the wiring/programming of the BAC2000. My experience in tweaking controllers is pretty much limited to the grin phaserunners. If I could use the autotune function from the phaserunner program I would be less hesitant. I managed to connect the BAC2000 to the phaserunner software though got a hardware warning and it wouldn't let me change anything. For now I have it running with the CYC motor and will try and sort that out.

BAC2000.jpg
 
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