Rwd dual motor hub+inrunner chain drive 8kw capable.

After recently getting a 219 sprocket to fit the cheap my1020 type can motors i could see it was possible to use a sprocket on the disc face of a dualtron hub motor and link the pair up on one wheel for over 8kw possible on a tiny wheel.

Now ill hear everyone saying the kv ratings and gearing will be all off and heres where the chinnese magic happens a stock 60v2000w hub wants to spin at 55mph on 20s and the 60v2000w my1020 motor geared at 5.4 wants to spin the wheel at 55mph. Very close to eachother almost identicle i imagine if each was run on their own they would have differing accel characteristics but together they should complement eachother just right a little bit of current balancing to each motor will get them working fairly evenly in unison.

Another bonus is both motors will regen on the same wheel giving powerful rear electronic braking and with a disc up front all the braking could be done with one hand, im not sure of cheap controller brake low can modulate the braking on the rear because switch both on full would just lock the rear end up not to good so its got to be a controller that can do modulated electronic brake regen.

All this would spin the back wheel up on what ever surface it would be bit of a widow maker, i really like it specially the idea of making a razor e300 accept it , ive got a failed frame that a welder let me down with a nice disc front end lots of special goodies that could make a master piece of a scooter but first im gonna make a mule then this project is on the cards ive got half the bits just need 2 risun controllers a my1020 brushless few lipos bms and away to hell i go

It seems to me that you are describing is the concept of the "Quad" kit developed for the Hunter M1. In effect it consists of assembling two hub motors together to form a large rim on which they fit 13" tires. The resulting "wheel" has two motors, each power by its own controller making the two wheel scooter a four motor set up ... hence the "quad" designation. Check out the original presentation of the concept which has started to ship in Korea earlier this year,
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[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zcdlFQB7XDM&t=75s[/youtube]

Well instead of one big hub motor they used 2 in a big tyre large format making one giant hub.
Id like to keep the small tyre wheel that gives lower gearing and narrow dropout of 145mm for a small footplate but add that chain drive to boost rear wheel power alot.

Ive only got a spare 60v2000w hub but if i was buying from scratch id be tempted to go for the 72v3500w hub 60mm magnets and a 72v3000w chaindrive some 6000mah lipos and drag race that son bitch rite out yee ha.

Ive had a little think about the longevity of such a ride and i think with the appropriate mods it could be pulled off, 219 chain and sprocket for the innrunner so a bit of shaft work is needed for that nothing to drastic or hard.
Then theres the hub side cover it will be taking the drive from the 3kw motor and putting it into the tyre through the 6 punny m4 bolts on the outer of the cover plate the bearing helps take axial load but high power that covers gonna want to turn.
Easiest way around this and to not drill more holes in the alloy is use an adhesive on that cover plate bonding it in place and using the bolts to help hold while curing then leaving them in to assist taking the load.
Im going to see if the side covers are universal because if they swap side the motor cable can be brought out on the opposite side keeping it away from chain dirt, its no biggy if it cant but be better on the otherside really.

OK get your idea and like the determination there but not sure I see the point. I've ran stock Dualtron hubs from 40A/60v to 60A/72V some have gone to 72V/140A with only phase wire upgrade (and hall sensors) and that might be an easier way to achieve the increased output goal but have a feeling that you are on to realising the original design of your thinking ... I\ll stay tuned for sure. Good luck.

HTTR said:

OK get your idea and like the determination there but not sure I see the point. I've ran stock Dualtron hubs from 40A/60v to 60A/72V some have gone to 72V/140A with only phase wire upgrade (and hall sensors) and that might be an easier way to achieve the increased output goal but have a feeling that you are on to realising the original design of your thinking ... I\ll stay tuned for sure. Good luck.

Click to expand...

Cheers for the input more ideas and knowledge on the table better the outcome.

Any threads on that 72v 140a hub ?
I see what your saying a single hub can output plenty to the small wheel on its own and if overvolted specially as a pair very high speeds can be achieved.

Problem i got with all that is repeatability launching that hard would soon overcome one hub with heat but if it was assisted like the dual motor but all through the one tyre it be up for launching hard all the time, id not go over 16s as thats the razor battery box tapped out but i can get just under 9kw out of the battery setup so this is all about shrinking that power down into something crazy light that can launch with the best of them top end not so much 50mph tops all it needs.

Sorry no thread on any, most of this is in the "Minimotors Club Dualtron & Speedway" Facebook group and some in the "High Performance PEV" one but the mod I described in your other thread ... a thunder with a 20s10P which can push out 300A is now the standard for the higher end performance mod. With the Weped competition growing up the community is organising including in standardised speed measurement equipment and, with only a few that passed the "record" so far is 8.8s for 0-100Km/h with a 24s7P 40T and a pair of Kelly on a weped FF I believe.

This is a video of a friend of mine who meticulously documents his work and its that approach, supposed to post performance shoots soon : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SHA6ZtZBOB4

Lots to like about that build cheers for the link.
Main ones are the motors themselfs looking at the cases the genuine dualtron hubs have alot more strength not so scabby on the alu, and the magnets look a different arrangment to what mine runs ill have to take some screen shots and compare the stator and rotor config.

The controllers paired and run on the handlebars is a good use of space but does invade that clean look its clear somethings up to the trained eye but on the plus side gives the legs a wind brake when giving it some.

Its a real nice build a plenty of details to take in mod paths to follow its got to have a good power to weight for sub 9 seconds thats early 90s hot hatch performance.

Httr cheers for the link.
I checked a few more of his vids and he got one
of the tyre spinning up and its like a dragster its a good inch rise all round can hear a woop noise to strange but that wheel is moving.

With weight of a rider its proberly not half as bad but that high an rpm the wheel has to be in the open do that in a razor frame and its gonna bind up and bad things happen.

Looks like to get that high a speed the wheel needs to be free of a mudguard or anything close and regular checks need to be made on that tyre its on its limit i would like to see the wider lower profile tyres on the same test.

Ive ordered few metres of some 10awg and 6 core shielded wire and im gonna have a bash opening out the axle hole same as the the guy in the video did.

Looking at the copper content both motors look simular and their pole counts identical its the magnets that differ, mine are one lump and his 4 pieces.

Whats best one lump for instant torque or the 4 pieces for lowering the circulating eddy in the magnets giving it more duration before they get to hot.

Im going for 6 core because ill add a temp sensor to the windings and repeat the test he done but with the 100/50/6.5 tyre to try prevent so much tyre growth.

Im going to copy the rion hub design with how they have opened the side covers up with holes only thing im debating is do i go custom frame from scratch or just get a dualtron and mod it.