36v e200 finished but.........

Hi this is my 1st build post so I am starting with something easy.
I got a razor ecosmart metro a while back. And it came with an extra controller, throttle( wire was cut but repaired) and even a brand new charge port and brake cable, so I borrow the idea from another post " accidentally double scooter build ".
I got a e200 and make that 36v.
Found one with dead battery but everything works for $20.

Got 3x 12v 5ah SLA battery for $33 on Amazon.

Added a 36v 40a relay so I can use a keyed on/off switch. And fuse holder with 30a fuse

Added front brake calipers ( have to modify to fit) and aluminum front wheel ( stock have a plastic wheel) from a e100. The brake lever do no work.

And switch out the charge port so my 36v charger work on both.

Have to trim down the controller but everything fit.

So here is the problem I am having. The ecosmart controller and throttle is variable speed. But on the e200 it goes 0 to full power when I turn 1/10 of the throttle.
My kid is scary to ride it.
What can I do to get the variable speed back?

Change the controller to use ebike throttle I had a spare brushed controller with ebike style throttle wires and I could change the speed throttle curve by how much the throttle is twisted which you can not do on the on/off style throttle the razors are. Picture of my spare controller here https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=35&t=114419#p1691742 which I forget where I got it from. I was going to say from a ebike kit I bought but those are brushless not brushed.

calab said:

Change the controller to use ebike throttle I had a spare brushed controller with ebike style throttle wires and I could change the speed throttle curve by how much the throttle is twisted which you can not do on the on/off style throttle the razors are. Picture of my spare controller here https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=35&t=114419#p1691742 which I forget where I got it from. I was going to say from a ebike kit I bought but those are brushless not brushed.

Click to expand...

Thank you Calab
Looks like just you and me working on these old dogs now days.

It is NOT an on/off throttle.
It is a variable speed throttle.
I can graduate increase speed as i twist
the same throttle on my ecosmart metro but not the e200.
Asking if anyone know why? And what can I do other than buying new stuff?

It's possible I've misread something in your posts and the below don't apply.

If that's the case, don't worry about them.


First: Is the throttle on the e200 a potentiometer, hall, or something else? Is it two wires, or three?

If it doesn't have three, it's not a hall sensor type. A pot could have three, or two. A switch could have three, or two.


Disconnect throttle from e200's wiring. Set multimeter to 200Kohm (Kohm, not just ohm).

1 Place red lead on first throttle wire. Place black lead on next throttle wire. Turn throttle slowly from off to full physical rotation. Note meter reading along with wire colors connected to meter leads.

2 If throttle has another wire, move red lead to that, leaving black where it is. Turn throttle slowly from off to full physical rotation. Note meter reading along with wire colors connected to meter leads.

3 Move black lead to first throttle wire, leaving red where it is. Turn throttle slowly from off to full physical rotation. Note meter reading along with wire colors connected to meter leads.

What readings do you get for each of these?

If it is a hall throttle, all readings will probalby be OL or whatever your meter shows for "no connection" or "out of range".

If it is a pot, then step 1 probably gets around 5kohm at one extreme of the rotation, and around 0ohm at the other, changing smoothly from one to the other. Step 2 should get the opposite pattern (if it has a third wire). Step 3 should get around 5kohm steady reading thru entire rotation (if it has a third wire).

If it is a switch, step 1 probably gets 0ohm at one extreme, and OL (open) at the other. It probably wont have a third wire; if it does, step 2 probably reads the opposite of step 1, just like a pot, and step 3 will probably read open circuit.


The order of the above results only apply if the order of the wires chosen to test in is the same as the order they are wired to the pot, throttle, or switch inside. But the actual results will still have the same pattern for each device, even if the steps to get them are a different order.

Second, some of these little scooters use normal brushed controllers but are only supplied with switches for throttles, because they have so little power normally. This is a different "vehicle", but the same result:
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=114457&p=1692353#p1692353

The even cheaper ones don't even use controllers, they just use a relay box.
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=35&t=89541

amberwolf said:

Second, some of these little scooters use normal brushed controllers but are only supplied with switches for throttles, because they have so little power normally. This is a different "vehicle", but the same result:
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=114457&p=1692353#p1692353

The even cheaper ones don't even use controllers, they just use a relay box.
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=35&t=89541

Click to expand...

Hi Amber wolf
Thanks for your reply.
I am using a 36v controller and throttle (6wires) coming off a razor ecosmart metro. I have the ecosmart scooter with the same controller and throttle which has variable speed throttle. Or at least the wheel speed increase as I turn twist the throttle and it will hold different speed depends on where the twist position at.
I also swap the known working throttle on the e200 and still with the same result.
I twist the throttle in the smallest increments I can but can not seems to get any variable speed action.

Would that because I am using the stock 24v 200w brush motor vs the ecosmart 36v 500w brush motor?
If that's the case anything I can do to make it happen? Like adding a trim pot to the throttle signal wire?

The throttle on my e200 I thought was on off but I dont know if mine had 6 wires or 4 it doesnt matter for me as I fried the controller and had the spare brushed controller with 5 wire ebike throttle. I have made zero progress on my e200 build still debating which way to build it.

Skippo said:

I am using a 36v controller and throttle (6wires) coming off a razor ecosmart metro. I have the ecosmart scooter with the same controller and throttle which has variable speed throttle. Or at least the wheel speed increase as I turn twist the throttle and it will hold different speed depends on where the twist position at.
I also swap the known working throttle on the e200 and still with the same result.
I twist the throttle in the smallest increments I can but can not seems to get any variable speed action.

Would that because I am using the stock 24v 200w brush motor vs the ecosmart 36v 500w brush motor?

Click to expand...

It shouldn't matter as long as the motor is the same kind (both brushed) and the voltage of the system is what the controller expects.

For the same throttle position, the 24v motor will spin faster at 36v, proportional to the difference in voltage.

The 200w motor is only made to take a certain amount of load, so it probably won't be able to do the same job the 500w motor does, but as long as it's capabilities aren't exceeded, it should still work the same as the 500w motor with the same controller.


So...the things you have as variables are:
1--throttle
2--controller
3--motor
4--wiring
5--battery

you've eliminated 1, and 3 shouldn't make a difference to the throttle response.

If 4 is the same wiring connections it would get in the ecosmart, that should eliminate that. If 4 is different wiring in the e200 vs ecosmart, perhaps whatever difference there is is causing the problem.

If 5 is the same voltage on both, it also shouldn't be the cause.

That leaves 2. Perhaps there is something wrong with the ecosmart controller that's in the e200, such that it doesn't correctly respond to the throttle. Has this controller been tested on the ecosmart?

I'm not certain what could be wrong with it to specifically cause this, unless it has a mode set either by a wire pair or something else that causes it to run as variable when one way, and as on/off in the other. Or, it happens to be a version that is designed as an on/off unit, regardless of actual throttle input. (perhaps that is why it came with the ecosmart scooter; it might have been removed from it and replaced with the one now on it to give it variable control)

Thanks again amberwolf
So it is the controller. Maybe it is broken or a different version. I wire the e200 motor over to the ecosmart controller and sure enough the variable throttle worked. And I already cross tested the throttle and know it works.
Good that I have a 3rd controller chuyskywalker sent me in goodwell.

Very interesting that the controller is the issue but it makes sense as low powered brushed controllers are cheap.

amberwolf said:

It shouldn't matter as long as the motor is the same kind (both brushed) and the voltage of the system is what the controller expects.

For the same throttle position, the 24v motor will spin faster at 36v, proportional to the difference in voltage.

The 200w motor is only made to take a certain amount of load, so it probably won't be able to do the same job the 500w motor does, but as long as it's capabilities aren't exceeded, it should still work the same as the 500w motor with the same controller.


So...the things you have as variables are:
1--throttle
2--controller
3--motor
4--wiring
5--battery

you've eliminated 1, and 3 shouldn't make a difference to the throttle response.

If 4 is the same wiring connections it would get in the ecosmart, that should eliminate that. If 4 is different wiring in the e200 vs ecosmart, perhaps whatever difference there is is causing the problem.

If 5 is the same voltage on both, it also shouldn't be the cause.

That leaves 2. Perhaps there is something wrong with the ecosmart controller that's in the e200, such that it doesn't correctly respond to the throttle. Has this controller been tested on the ecosmart?

I'm not certain what could be wrong with it to specifically cause this, unless it has a mode set either by a wire pair or something else that causes it to run as variable when one way, and as on/off in the other. Or, it happens to be a version that is designed as an on/off unit, regardless of actual throttle input. (perhaps that is why it came with the ecosmart scooter; it might have been removed from it and replaced with the one now on it to give it variable control)

Click to expand...

Amberwolf
You are right on the money. It is under the controller.
Now it is running fine.

Here is another question.
I want to switch to a thumb throttle with a volt meter display. I see that some are 5 wire with a switch or key and some are 4 wire without switch. How would I wire them up?

Please refer to the image a few post up.

I know the 5v + and 5v - and the signal.
And then I assume the 24v/36v power wire will connect to the display. And this is how to wire the 4 wire throttle.

What do I do with the other 2 wires?
Do I just jump them?
What about the 5 wire throttle? What do I do??
Thank in advance.