Enertionboards.com | 5x1.5 Inch All-Terrain-Wheel

Hi,

There are several people on here experimenting/testing pneumatic off road wheels on their 'street' eboards...i totally love the concept! the biggest problem people seem to have is finding rims that fit nicely on the standard 8mm axle on normal skateboard trucks with normal skateboard bearings... Also the tyres that are available seem a bit narrow and not the 'off-roady-tread' like the 8 inch mountain board tyres that are readily available. The other problem with using bigger wheels is you need to completely redesign your drivetrain to get the gearing ratios optimised. OR get really wide truck hangers to prevent wheel bite. OR get a crazy custom deck made.

I love a design challenge.... So I have been working on developing something to solve some of the problems. This stuff is not yet available for sale it is still being developed...so at least a few more weeks before i can fully test it, so feel free to give me your feedback if you think there are improvements to be made.

In terms of wheel size i think the 5 inch wheel is a good choice (6 inch can work well too) - this is important because it allows the existing drive & gearing setup to be utilised with minimal gearing / motor changes. So no matter what wheel you decide to use on any particular day you only need one board, with one propulsion system, with one set of motors...... seriously who can afford to have two separate eboards?.... I think people should have the option to simply change out the wheels depending on the terrain you plan to ride on any given day...so hopefully i have achieved this.

HERE ARE SOME OF THE FEATURES
> This all-terrain wheel & pulley assembly will directly interchange with normal 83mm skateboard wheels on an enertion propulsion system - All you need is a larger belt! - The Motors & Motor pulley can remain untouched to allow HOT-SWAP in the field.
> The tyre is wider than what most people have been trying to use. The size is 5x1.5 inch. It also has some nice slightly chunky tread.
> Total weight of each tyre & rim assembly should be about 250 grams.
> The Rim is a two piece design held together with 4x M6 bolts. These same bolts also are used to hold the pulley in place.
> The retail price of 4 fully assembled wheels. RIM, TYRE & TUBE is estimated at $149 AUD (plus shipping)
> If you want the 4 wheels with two aluminium pulleys & two belts the total is $229 AUD (plus shipping)

LET ME KNOW WHAT YOU THINK OF THE DESIGNS SO FAR

Looks great. What's the real wheel look like?

torqueboards said:

Looks great. What's the real wheel look like?

Click to expand...

the tyre looks 90% the same... so without enertion writing... & some more detailed tread pattern...
the rim looks 100% same

Any chance of use with the Alien kits/any other DIY 'kit'/setup? I think you'll sell a lot more if you can make them 'universally' usable by 'anyone' with an eboard, even if not able to hot-swap in the field… because lets face it, every skater dreams of skating without having to worry about being hurled forward at speed by collision with a pea-sized rock

I for one would pre-order a set right now if you could get them to work with the new Alien kit.

The actual tyre & tread pattern

RomeoEG said:

Any chance of use with the Alien kits/any other DIY 'kit'/setup? I think you'll sell a lot more if you can make them 'universally' usable by 'anyone' with an eboard, even if not able to hot-swap in the field… because lets face it, every skater dreams of skating without having to worry about being hurled forward at speed by collision with a pea-sized rock

I for one would pre-order a set right now if you could get them to work with the new Alien kit.

Click to expand...

These are 100% universal wheels, they will work on any normal skateboard truck with 8mm axles & they will they work with alien mounts...sort-of.... however the belt i supply probably won't be long enough as alien motor mounts are longer (longer centre distance) then enertion - however we do both use 5m-htd pulleys so its compatible in that sense...

onloop said:

Hi,
> The Rim is a two piece design held together with 4x M6 bolts. These same bolts also are used to hold the pulley in place.

Click to expand...

thxs for the pics, looks great, may we see the other side ? (not sure how the pulley is held, threaded or bolted...)

THE BACK SIDE

The rim sections & the pulley will not have any threaded sections, my intention is to use 4 nylock nuts on the end of the M6 bolts to hold the assembly together. This makes it a lot simpler and more universal.

I have tried to make the backside of the rim as simple/universal as possible hopefully allowing people to custom-fit their own pulleys/cogs if need be....

thxs, yeah I am potentially interrested depending how I can fit a chain sprocket... what is the bolt circle diameter ?

Bolt circle diameter is 56mm

Man! you are on it! A 5" pnuematic solution will be awesome. The pictures look great. The one thing which would prevent me from buying a set is the 56mm bolt spacing. You should integrate a smaller bolt pattern as well. 44 or 48mm. 5 or 6 bolt to allow different bolt patterns.

onloop said:

RomeoEG said:

Any chance of use with the Alien kits/any other DIY 'kit'/setup? I think you'll sell a lot more if you can make them 'universally' usable by 'anyone' with an eboard, even if not able to hot-swap in the field… because lets face it, every skater dreams of skating without having to worry about being hurled forward at speed by collision with a pea-sized rock

I for one would pre-order a set right now if you could get them to work with the new Alien kit.

Click to expand...

These are 100% universal wheels, they will work on any normal skateboard truck with 8mm axles & they will they work with alien mounts...sort-of.... however the belt i supply probably won't be long enough as alien motor mounts are longer (longer centre distance) then enertion - however we do both use 5m-htd pulleys so its compatible in that sense...

Click to expand...

Somewhat noob question, but how would I figure out what belt I would need? I'm using 12T/40T on the new alien mounts

Also, why are people concerned about the bolt pattern? for finding a sprocket/hub pulley wheel that will bolt on to it for connecting the belt/chain? Richard at APS offers some different hub pulley wheels would any of these work? by the looks of it no- looks like he's using 5 bolt pattern vs this 4 bolt pattern

http://www.aliendrivesystems.com/store/p33/Hub_Pulley_Wheels.html

You will offer hub pulley wheels with the 5" wheels though yah? and as you said they use the same kind of belt as the Alien kits.. so just a matter of finding a belt that fits? with acceptable gearing

psychotiller said:

Man! you are on it! A 5" pnuematic solution will be awesome. The pictures look great. The one thing which would prevent me from buying a set is the 56mm bolt spacing. You should integrate a smaller bolt pattern as well. 44 or 48mm. 5 or 6 bolt to allow different bolt patterns.

Click to expand...

What about this variation. Now it has a 42mm bolt circle diameter... not enough area to put 48mm BCD. 5 or 6 bolt pattern would require complete redesign - Which is a possibility, however i suppose it depends if it makes the rim more universal or not? So what would utilise this 5 or 6 hole pattern? I suppose the question is, is there an international standard hole pattern for sprockets?

I guess theres no reason to redesign for the Alien 5 hole pattern so long as you're providing sprockets (which you are).

Would be worth it though to offer a sprocket size/gearing with a corresponding belt that would for sure fit the new Alien kits.

RomeoEG said:

I guess theres no reason to redesign for the Alien 5 hole pattern so long as you're providing sprockets (which you are).

Would be worth it though to offer a sprocket size/gearing with a corresponding belt that would for sure fit the new Alien kits.

Click to expand...

You could have a few different mounting points for smaller wheels and/or bigger. Would allow people to customize it. Would add to the cost though. I'd say two bolting points for either smaller pulleys and/or larger pulleys depending on ones setup.

I don't think there are any standard bolt holes for pulleys - they're mostly stock and you would customize it.

onloop said:

What about this variation. Now it has a 42mm bolt circle diameter... not enough area to put 48mm BCD. 5 or 6 bolt pattern would require complete redesign - Which is a possibility, however i suppose it depends if it makes the rim more universal or not? So what would utilise this 5 or 6 hole pattern? I suppose the question is, is there an international standard hole pattern for sprockets?

Click to expand...

That would work! The reason I suggested 48 was because there is this VersaPulley that is really nice to use and it can be 10mm thick or 15mm thick because it has filleted sections. And predrilled 48mm holes. http://www.wcproducts.net/htd-5mm-versapulley/

They work great, they're light and they're inexpensive. the 42t versa with a 17t motor pulley gets me 37mph with a 245kv motor and 150mm wheels.

I suggested 6 or 5 because I've noticed most people usually end up bolting a 3, 5 or 6 bolt pattern on most wheels.

Im not too excited over the look of the tire. I see no need for a groovy threead pattern as their not for real terrain use, just to get a nice ride on something else then perfect tarmac. Getting over cracks, gravel joints etc in the road. I've preferd slicks tires.

The rim on the other hand, -looks beautiful!

Hmm the tire isn't that groovy after all, -quite ok

onloop, did you come across any narrower tires that you could use with a narrower hub? If the hubs/tires were narrower you could put some speed rings/spacers on the axles to get the wheels a little further out from the board; wheel bite a problem I think a lot of people will have.

I think 1.5 is a good width. 1.8 could be an option too. I personally think the thinner tyres look a bit too thin. Even with super narrow rims at the smallest they can be will not help a lot to prevent wheel bite.

You probably can't tell this from the pics but the rim has been designed with a slight offset (bearings are not in center- outside edge is sitting out further). So this has the inside edge of the wider tyre sitting at about the same spot the inside edge of the narrow tyres would be sitting.

I designed it this way for a few reasons. Firstly it gives me more space for drive train component's because with dual-rear-drive setups width is already limited.

Secondly I think a slightly wider stance would be better for stability.. and it looks tough too.

The thing is with wheel bite... it's actually the outside edge of the wheel that is the culprit. So with this wider wheel & offset rim design I have actually increased the ability for it to bite....

Wider trucks Or skinny deck Or truck risers is what is needed to totally guarantee zero wheel bite when you have big wheels...

However I am not concerned... I've mocked this up and don't think wheel bite is an issue. The decks I will use have big cutouts.

Yeah I'm a little concerned about wheel bite with my current choice of deck, but that's not going to stop me from ordering some and giving it a try worst case I have a second deck for offroading with a 10-20 min conversion to swap decks. Or just some super fat riser pads and just be weary of super sharp turning.

just to add few things i have found with my own 5" tyre boards..they are the best riding board on uneven road you will ever find..but the 1" tyres that i use really sap the energy from the battery and range is considerably less than with skate wheels..so i can only assume the 1.5" wide will be worse..
also the tread pattern adds to the range problem.. i believe as they are mostly used on rough roads and not dirt tracks i would stick with smoother tread if possible..
i think the most important thing is to get the wheels to rotate as freely and as concentrically as possible.. the split half type design is the best method but they have to fit together very very well or the bearings don't line up and they wont spin freely and again the range falls considerably..
i have also tried 6" tyres and I would stick with the 5" to stop wheel bite and just the fact that it feels really high and un-stable on the 6"
As i say i believe the pneumatic tyre is by far the most versatile method on the E-boards but the cost of the wheels and the availability of a good quality ( round) and reasonably cheap tyre has stopped my taking this to market but i want to see this happen ..so good look with this and i'm sure ill be first in line to buy a set..

my builds-
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=35&t=59834
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=35&t=55843

One other thing worth mentioning that I remember reading in the Urban Mover build thread is to incorporate a counter balance for the air stem of the tire tube otherwise it wobbles at speed.

beetbocks said:

just to add few things i have found with my own 5" tyre boards..they are the best riding board on uneven road you will ever find..but the 1" tyres that i use really sap the energy from the battery and range is considerably less than with skate wheels..so i can only assume the 1.5" wide will be worse..
also the tread pattern adds to the range problem.. i believe as they are mostly used on rough roads and not dirt tracks i would stick with smoother tread if possible..
i think the most important thing is to get the wheels to rotate as freely and as concentrically as possible.. the split half type design is the best method but they have to fit together very very well or the bearings don't line up and they wont spin freely and again the range falls considerably..
i have also tried 6" tyres and I would stick with the 5" to stop wheel bite and just the fact that it feels really high and un-stable on the 6"
As i say i believe the pneumatic tyre is by far the most versatile method on the E-boards but the cost of the wheels and the availability of a good quality ( round) and reasonably cheap tyre has stopped my taking this to market but i want to see this happen ..so good look with this and i'm sure ill be first in line to buy a set..

my builds-
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=35&t=59834
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=35&t=55843

Click to expand...

I agree to all of these. IMO, the solution to the range problem is swappable battery packs. Think of a system where the rider can just attach blocks of 6s/10ah lipos on the board. They can all be parallel-connected and attached/re-attached like a power tool battery. They can also be enclosed in light aluminum, much like a lipo bunker. In this way, lipo fires can be (hopefully) contained and the damage minimal.

EDIT: Maybe 10ah is too big, maybe 5ah is more ideal.

RomeoEG said:

One other thing worth mentioning that I remember reading in the Urban Mover build thread is to incorporate a counter balance for the air stem of the tire tube otherwise it wobbles at speed.

Click to expand...

ooh yeah i forgot about that... its actually quite important.. i used 5 gram self adhesive weight and it really makes a lot of difference ..in the v3 wheels i incorporated the weight into the wheel rim...which worked well but all the added machining just added to the cost ..

They look nice, looking forward to see the final product. I really like how us nonproducers/sellers can influence the product!

I just got myself a set of skike wheels and machined them to fit the skate trucks. They can take quite high pressure which I think can be a criteria for long range as well.

Having a MTB myself I think you won't really want to go offroad with smaller wheels than MTB ones and the motors below the deck. Also, belt drives are said to be vulnerable to dirt and debris which would make it not the best for offroad. So I agree with beetbocks that they will be best for rough road/tarmac. So making them less wide could be better.

Have you thought of making them fit bigger bearings or use a outside bearing diameter and thickness that is available for 8 and 10 mm ID alike? You could supply the bearings as well and the wheels could fit for MTB trucks should someone want to use them.