Trek Lime is NO lemon: video duds #37A and #37 in place now

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Trek Lime is NO lemon: video duds #37A and #37 in place now

Post by Reid Welch » Jun 28 2009 2:39am

This is not an ebike, but it could become a candidate for a front-drive ebike. Not likely I will ever do an e-conversion.

This thread, I did not know where best to place it, being a review-dissection of a manual cruiser bike.
ADMIN: move this thread if you feel it is in the wrong place, please?

I wanted a manual bike of unusual (quirky), yet solid design;
a spare bike to use when my ebike is down for "reidrepairs"
((I like to break the Stealth Cruiser I call DOM)) add one "o" and you've pegged me and that bike :twisted:

So
I got a Trek Lime: a slow-seller, a fine little Edsel :P for future collectors.

HERE is where I acquired the bike,

and why I chose the LIME over the myriad of surely-better e-bike-conversion choices.
~~~~
repeated link from another thread: the Trek Ipod-like sell-a-blurb:
http://www.trekbikes.com/lime/
Mouse over "Meet Lime" after the page loads.
See "how it works". Look at the cheap but simple color accessory options ($20US kits) My Lime is ALL black.
Remove the rubber hub covers: bright chrome hemispherical hub covers: sharp looking against the gloss black.
The Lime owner can go chrome or black or green or pink, etc. I like to go bare chrome hub covers for now.
~~~~
The rear hub internal geared unit is the tried-and true Shimano three speed, with, I think, internal coaster braking;
I don't know these things yet. No pictures found yet of the basic Shimano three speed guts;
does it use wedging-tapered-hard-steel-shoes like the fixed-gear, coaster brake, Sunkruiser?

The Lime: IT IS NOT DEAD SILENT when coasting: a click click click of ratchets and pawls: a minor let down, that slight noise.

On the other hand, my Sunkruiser with its 1908-style internal expanding brake shoes, is ratchet-free,
does not make a sound, and does not slip, and it will not wear out, I just about bet you,
because I have made it grease-able at will, at any time, no take-apart again, ever
(thin, white, lithium grease, injectable from time to time, to flush the internals of wear products and water or grit).

A Shimano or other new-tech internal geared hub is not so easily servicable.
Perhaps not to be considered for regular take-downs, but the Shimano brand can be serviced if that's ever needed;

How many gears do =you= need? Multi-gearing, even if it were only a low and then high gear, is a help in any manual bike,
and vital if you have grades, hills or headwinds to beat, and no e-power assist.
I can actually do just great with a fixed gear coaster here,
although, two gears are better, and three is like the magic number for this time-flattened, old Florida guy.
Here's the real deal, though about internal multi-geared hubs, great article by the late, great Sheldon Brown:
http://sheldonbrown.com/internal-gears.html
~~~~~
I like a silent coaster brake bike, like my Sunkruiser e-conversion single-speed rear hub:
absolutely silent and without drag at all;
the old lore of draggy internal-brake hubs is somewhat false;
my Sunkruiser's cheap, century-old rear coaster is powerful braking, and no click,
no noise, no drag.

OK...Shimano, the practical, affordable, multi-speed rear hub. No derailleur crap-ola.
No rim brakes to wear out your rims. No disk brake. Works in the wet as it does in the dry: skids the rear tire just grand.
LEAN BACK when you brake a rear brake-only bike, and want to stop PDQ (pretty damned quick).

But the Shimano, or any other brand of internal geared unit,
even the olden-time Sturmey-Archer, etc, three speed, must be quite complicated,
relative to the fixed-gear Sunkruiser coaster brake.

See how the uppah-crust seven and eight speed Nexus hubs come apart and go together here below?
Click next and next and next, of Sheldon Brown's superb reproduction of the official Inter-Eight Nexus manual?
Looks like a barrel of rocket science fun, huh? (I joke).
This is high tech machinery, to enter into only by the brave, or the foolish, or for the very well-versed senior mechanics:
http://www.sheldonbrown.com/nexus8/pages/02.htm
Click next and next and nexus...many fine pages of pictures and procedures.

_______________
enough for an opening post...

Please, please, add your thoughts, pro or con, as you please; your experience is wanted here.
Last edited by Reid Welch on Aug 06 2009 8:09pm, edited 32 times in total.
Who, or which one would I be, were I a great man?
NICK LUCAS
SANDY POWELL
GEORGE FORMBY

DREW PEARSON
Ans: the man atop: NICK, for sure!

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Re: Trek Lime: initial impressions review

Post by Reid Welch » Jun 28 2009 3:13am

#2: mostly errata and anecdotal stuff:


Practical Matters

Why do I need more than one, or even three speeds? It's FLAT here in Miami. Why eight, or even seven gears,
as is generally wanted as a minimum gearing-range for folks who cycle semi-seriously----?
Original safety bikes of 1890 had but ONE gear, period.

I am not a cadence-calculator-upper. Therefore, three speeds is more than plenty for this pup.
Low is default-at-start, and it is so useful in as you start off. Low gear is a great boon, even, especially, on the flats: gets you across an intersection from the standing start, fast.
This is exactly what made Model T such a joy to drive: launch FAST in low,
then at about ten mph max, drop Model T into direct (high) gear, which was purely, simply, Direct Drive, crankshaft to driveshaft. Super-simple and mechanically efficient, that 1908 T design, good for 19 production years; just not so "versatile" as three speed, then four speed autos...or the much later bikes' up-to-22 speeds, etc.

At, say, about eight mph, (all adjustable) Lime shifts silently, with a cadence change to tell you so, up to second gear.
Recall, again please? The early bikes all had but one gear, generally gear-inched for 8 to 12 mph riding:
low-enough geared to manage the hills, yet, high-enough geared to keep you faster than the average horse; your
running up to decades of miles for hours on end.
A horse could not do that; the horse could not manage many miles in a day
at any faster than a swift walking pace.

To the present: we go faster, than, say, eight-per: click: Lime ripenes from middle gear, to high (third) gear,
and then you can spin easily up to about 18 miles per hour, estimated, no cyclometer on this bike, yet, if ever.

In brief summation: Lime rides very sweetly, brand new, first day.

It auto shifts nicely, though at first, my sample did not shift from low gear =at all=.
Why? There is a nearly-secret turn-pot adjustment. My Lime had its setting defaulted, I suppose, at the "N" mark,
which simply disables all shifting out of low gear. "N" means what? "No shifting"? :twisted: "Noodle nanny"?

Nothing in the generic Trek manual or at the online sales site/s, or the bike shop (closed for the night, but they would know).
I had to figure that N out: five minutes; screwdriver to fit the plastic slot of the plastic pot screw head, recessed,

click, click the potentiometer, which is located below the chain enclosure, in a small cover-box; the Lime's "computer" inside;

and though no-one seems to know or tell: the auto shifting is adjustable by electronic potentiometer adjustment;
and that no-instructions-included is a sales-feature failure, to have made no note to the user, a major/minor mistake of Trek's doing.
I just about bet you that many Lime buyers took home their purchase, rode for ten minutes, got no shifting, did not know of the pot,
were dismayed, "this is malarkey!" and returned the bike to the LBS for refund or upgrade to a different bike.

I will be playing with the adjustments. But Lime's self-powered electro-shifter seems to be NOT finicky,
nor do the wide-spaced ratios bother me one bit. Three gears is just grand. I would not want even seven speeds.
Do you all recall the first seven and then ten speed bikes? Oooooo: hadda have one. Mistake here. I hated the early
multi-geared, derailleurs here in Miami: filthy-dirt-magnets, chain dropping, shift only whilst riding, and only about three gears
were ever used.

LIME : It's like driving a three speed automatic transmission car. Pretty slick for a basic bike!

NO handlebar controls, no cables on the bars, no front or rear brake levers on the bars.
Room for an Incredibell, reflector, and a bike light if wanted, whatever you want.
Clean looking, did I say that...about five times before, already?
STYLISH, without flash: phat hubs with dome-shaped, bright chrome caps, fully functional, but also cover-able with your optional-use
of any of a half-dozen colors of rubbery-stuff accent trim caps.

I don't plan to water-soak this bike, ever, if I can avoid it...
...more on that topic of "sealed" bearings, bikes and water/sand/mud/ over time, later.
I don't plan to add fenders, either: it is to be a fair-weather pleasure bike.
Clean, delicious looking lime: looks edible but not like a fairy-tinkerbelle bike. It looks masculine and no-nonsense.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


A three speed Shimano Nexus, Trek's smart choice for Lime, is surely simpler and more robust than the seven or eight gear super-Nexus models:
New Shimano three speed hubs are stock on a fair number of SoCal cruisers (Dynos and Electras for example), so they are available. I don't have any direct experience with new models of any these hubs, but I do with (1) older Sturmey Archer 3-speeds (50's through 70's; I've had 3 different bikes thusly equipped), (2) Shimano Nexus 7 (I've currently got three bikes w/ 'em) and (3) SRAM 5 and 7 (my wife's two bikes). I've never had to service any of them and have had minimal problems, most of which usually can be solved by correct adjustment. I find the Shimano Nexus 7 to be smoother in some gears than others, probably a design issue more than anything else. All things considered, logic would tell you that a three speed should be more reliable and easier to service than a more complicated 5,7 or 8 speed model. However, I don't find that a three speed hub gives me enough range for some of the hills I need to deal with daily, so I typically go with a 7-speed, which is becoming more common on city commuter bikes in the US now. Sturmey makes 5 and 7 speed models now too, but I've never seen one. Maybe Pashley is using them on some bikes, but you'd have to go to Canada to buy one of those.
source: http://www.bikeforums.net/archive/index ... 51021.html

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Is the Lime to be an Edsel of the bike world?

IF so, Lime is a very pretty Edsel, but I don't think it an Edsel, not, after reading all the comments,
and it =is= a cool-dog engineering/styling/price point accomplishment,
whether it turns out to be a long-term sales-failure or not.
"My 26 year old daughter has tiny hands and cannot handle brake levers";
"My 71 year-young wife cannot grasp the concept of manual shifting..."
ME: I grew up on single speed cruisers. I hate, hate, hate, levers and shifters of any sort on a handlebar;
I'm allergic to complexities not truly needed here, for me, for my kind of riding. I do not need a front brake, period.


Trek Lime is one, good, clean looking, sweet ride...
plus, I'm gonna make it even better (for for my likes) in time:

Trek's Bontrager Hank Slicks are the future upgrade: silent, easier rolling, strikingly handsome tires, GRIPPY, too.
I love the Big Hanks the most, of all tires. They are robust, yet supple, free-rolling, no nonsense, smooth-patch silent running,
like tires of the year 1900: bike tires on paved roads of asphalt or old-time "macadam" need NO tread, says Sheldon Brown and other certified experts.

I may not be able to fit a Big (2.5" wide) Hank to the front, narrow fork
, but the regular-width Hank will fit.
OTOH, there's definitely width-room for the phat-version Hank for the rear.


----
constant edits are my rule, to fix errors such as comma toes' hangnails, etc.
Last edited by Reid Welch on Jun 30 2009 1:36am, edited 25 times in total.
Who, or which one would I be, were I a great man?
NICK LUCAS
SANDY POWELL
GEORGE FORMBY

DREW PEARSON
Ans: the man atop: NICK, for sure!

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Reid Welch   10 MW

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Re: Trek Lime: initial impressions review

Post by Reid Welch » Jun 28 2009 3:14am

Parking space for lots and lots of pictures of the automatically-shifting Trek Lime.

This will be fun from here on out, with less verbiage :roll: , I promise


TBC

r.
------

edit: you see that I lie...a lot!
Last edited by Reid Welch on Jun 30 2009 1:37am, edited 1 time in total.
Who, or which one would I be, were I a great man?
NICK LUCAS
SANDY POWELL
GEORGE FORMBY

DREW PEARSON
Ans: the man atop: NICK, for sure!

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Reid Welch   10 MW

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Re: Trek Lime: initial impressions review

Post by Reid Welch » Jun 28 2009 4:08am

Coral Way Bicycle Shop, in business since 1942. Busy as bees; no slack time there ever.
Therefore, CWBS must be good, eh?
My late father and his father certainly patronized the place some sixty-odd years ago.

Do you know that they gave me a superb deal? I mentioned this discount fact, their gift to me,
in the other, non-technical, Lime Thread. There you see the principles of this good shop.


(image of the bike in detail, and image of the invoice to be put here on a not-rainy day when I can take pictures all outdoors).

WHAT A GREAT LBS, to give me such a favour! They even paid the mandatory sales tax; would not let me pay tax.
That break, hugely appreciated, was above and beyond any expected kindness. They owe me nothing, never did.
Who, or which one would I be, were I a great man?
NICK LUCAS
SANDY POWELL
GEORGE FORMBY

DREW PEARSON
Ans: the man atop: NICK, for sure!

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Reid Welch   10 MW

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Day Two, Twenty Miles, A Bit Dusty

Post by Reid Welch » Jun 29 2009 12:52pm

Click the thumbnails, please? The casual pictures came out pretty good for hand-held work

note: I did not wipe down the new bike for the photo session.

begin:
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Last edited by Reid Welch on Jun 29 2009 1:14pm, edited 1 time in total.
Who, or which one would I be, were I a great man?
NICK LUCAS
SANDY POWELL
GEORGE FORMBY

DREW PEARSON
Ans: the man atop: NICK, for sure!

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Reid Welch   10 MW

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Re: Trek Lime LITE: now with sexxy pictures, clickable

Post by Reid Welch » Jun 29 2009 1:03pm

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_________
title correction; this is the downscale "Lite" version. It does not have the stowy-cargo seat (I would not want that, anyway,
and I would not want a five speed Shimano, if that's what the pricier LIME actually features (can't tell from the published data).

Also, wherein we learn that this world is no longer "national" in scope, but inter-woven, culture-to-culture, thread-to-weave, as in a former brand of socks, "Interwoven", USA name brand; "interwoven" meant that they, that brand, would not un-ravel if holed; darn it.

Now, the world is not "national" in any business sense any more.
The pictures, USA TREK, et all, so-prove.

The word is Interwoven, as in the old-time brand name of superior-quality socks. Puppets, none of us!
Last edited by Reid Welch on Jul 03 2009 6:36pm, edited 4 times in total.
Who, or which one would I be, were I a great man?
NICK LUCAS
SANDY POWELL
GEORGE FORMBY

DREW PEARSON
Ans: the man atop: NICK, for sure!

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Reid Welch   10 MW

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grouping #3

Post by Reid Welch » Jun 29 2009 1:04pm

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notes here because I can't seem to insert text between the mini-images without breaking the code

#1: rear wheel chain adjuster, dust-capped. One on each side.

#2: the hub covers here are in bold chrome. LIME comes standard with snap-over hub covers for colour accenting.

#4: is that chainwheel of steel? I hope so.
Steel is a much better-wearing chainring metal than :x aluminum. You all know this, of course!
my pal, mr. magnet, will soon tell what that ring is made of. :wink:

#5: have not been into this yet; it is the shift computer and linear-pull motor that physically yanks or releases the bowden cable going to the Shimano Inter Three coaster brake, wide ratio internally geared hub.

#6: nobody on the net, not Trek, not anybody, not the beleaguered LBS, has told you before now, that if the slotted "pot" adjuster is aimed at "N" you get NO shifting out of low gear:
in "N", you get permanent low gear, useful at times, I guess, but for what terrain-type?

Shifter sensitivity: that pot-slot CLICKS through various, marked positions, as seen in photo #6.
N equals: always in low gear. Successive clicks INCREASE the shift sensitivity. I am liking the max-setting best, so far.
WHAT IT DOES, almost surely, is simply set a 'trigger point', where and when the linear-pull motor yanks or releases the bowden cable.
NB: the POWER to do this small work comes via a brushless magneto in the front hub: the faster the front wheel spins, the sooner or surer, the shifter motor ticks up or down. You just pedal. No controls on the bars, whoopie!

That is to say: You hit a 5% grade. Your bike and you slow down. Less voltage from the front hub "generator", so, the autoshifter drops the LIME into low gear. Now you pedal easily up the little hill, albeit not so fast, right? :D
Next we crest the grade and begin, perhaps, a coasting descent. You are, perhaps, not pedaling at all.
WHAT HAPPENS: as the bike reaches about eight mph of its own accord, SHIFT to second. And at about 12mph, SHIFT to third.

Summation: the design is super-simple, common sense, is not "brainy", really, but entirely dependent on front wheel rotation speed in conjunction with the pot setting.

It works VERY WELL: just get on the little bike and ride! No thought of shifting needed. It will prove to have some minor drawbacks:
you cannot "lock" into second or third gear. And always, from a standing start: you commence in low, automatically, which is a Good Thing.

I like the LIME so far, so very well

----
Dear Trek people: I do think that a bit more sales skills would have made this bike a sure winner.
People don't know about the shifter adjustment, for instance. If I were Mr. Average, and got this bike for my wife,
BACK TO THE STORE I WANT A REFUND, because the shift-pot was set to "N", which made the bike a single speed LOW geared cruiser, only.

OTOH,
LIME works well and it looks good, not prissy or fussy. It is fairly priced. Three gears are plenty for most riders.
WIDE ratios are ideal for casual bikers like me. MINUS POINT: the tires are not ideal for comfort/pleasure riding.
So I am throwing away (giving away) the Bontrager Cruizer tires, in favor of Bontrager Hank Slicks, red walls.
THOSE are some pretty sweet looking and easy-rolling, cushy tires, perfect for my needs, but not so great for folks who
drive over beds of glass shards, etc. TREAD IS USELESS on bikes that are to be ridden on asphalt pavement or hardpack macadam.
TREAD is useful only in pulling through muddy, slimy, snowy, slushy crap.

Put slicks on this Lime, and I shall have the "ideal for me" manual-for-now, AUTOMATIC SHIFTING (wowie!) bike.
Perhaps later I can electric-motor it....but....not this year, maybe next year. I like it just as it is: a spare, regular bike.


________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
PURCHASE DAY, this past Saturday, 5:30 PM EST: ISMAEL, ALBERTO, RAMON. seated: The Scorcher, age 55, not healthy like you'd think.
Image
:wink: it's just a snapshot, but look at the details, unintended: "stop shop", and, on the telly: Obama, un-Barackoken!
Last edited by Reid Welch on Jul 03 2009 6:39pm, edited 11 times in total.
Who, or which one would I be, were I a great man?
NICK LUCAS
SANDY POWELL
GEORGE FORMBY

DREW PEARSON
Ans: the man atop: NICK, for sure!

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Reid Welch   10 MW

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#4, then more automatic-shift LIME info to come

Post by Reid Welch » Jun 29 2009 1:04pm

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----
mini review, twenty miles,
have yet to get and mount Bontrager Hank Slicks
in place of the OEM tread-o-horror :wink: tires.

=The bike rides well
=It weights just about 22lbs
=It auto shifts just like a common car!
=Overall, I am liking my black Lime

To come in greater detail of explanation: how does the shifter work?
How well and surely does it shift?
How does the automatic action come to action?
Is it simple and reliable, long term?
Water proof?

Handling, general riding impressions: so far, so very good.

Can it become a light duty e-bike some day? The front fork is steel, the frame, aluminum.
Last edited by Reid Welch on Jun 29 2009 2:51pm, edited 1 time in total.
Who, or which one would I be, were I a great man?
NICK LUCAS
SANDY POWELL
GEORGE FORMBY

DREW PEARSON
Ans: the man atop: NICK, for sure!

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Re: Trek Lime: now with sexxy pictures, clickable

Post by liveforphysics » Jun 29 2009 1:17pm

I also like a 3spd wide ratio hub. Having a steep hill climbing gear, a cruse gear, and a high speed gear is all I ever seem to use on a bike even when I have 27spds or whatever available on the bike.

I think you got yourself a fine machine in your lime purchase.

I'm extremely fussy about what I ride, and I would cruise that around for relaxing trips around town.

Good choice Reed.

-Luke
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Each mutagen vapor exposure includes a dice roll for reproductive genetic defects in your children.

Each engine start sprays them into a shared atmosphere which includes beings not offered an opportunity to consent accepting these cancer experiences and defective genetics life experiences.

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Re: Trek Lime: now with sexxy pictures, clickable

Post by John in CR » Jun 29 2009 3:00pm

Nice bike. Just 2 questions:

1. What's the gearing range?

2. Since they have his & her versions, why'd you get the wrong one. If you want to be Dorothy, then you gotta do it right. :wink:

John

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Re: Trek Lime: now with sexxy pictures, clickable

Post by liveforphysics » Jun 29 2009 3:16pm

John in CR wrote: Since they have his & her versions, why'd you get the wrong one?

John

He's saving those models for you ;)
Each carcinogen vapor exposure includes a dice roll for cancer.

Each mutagen vapor exposure includes a dice roll for reproductive genetic defects in your children.

Each engine start sprays them into a shared atmosphere which includes beings not offered an opportunity to consent accepting these cancer experiences and defective genetics life experiences.

Every post is a free gift to the collective of minds composing the living bleeding edge of LEV development on our spaceship.

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Re: Trek Lime: now with sexxy pictures, clickable

Post by Reid Welch » Jun 29 2009 3:21pm

John in CR wrote:Nice bike. Just 2 questions:

1. What's the gearing range?

2. Since they have his & her versions, why'd you get the wrong one. If you want to be Dorothy, then you gotta do it right. :wink:

John
First answer: I do not know the gearing range. It is not published so far as I know.
I'll work out the gearing by turning the crank and rear wheel whilst spinning the front dynamo wheel...
HUMOUR BREAK:

:twisted: Now, LISTEN, you clanking, tin-tainted fraud (jk insult), I may be "Dorothy", but this is a MAN's bike, not the LIME for ladies frame.

Yes, it comes in a step-through frame too.

This, though, is the the He-Man-Woman-Haters' Club frame, sez me!

For special friend John in Costa Rica; John is the Tin Woodysman. fechter makes his bow as Glenda. Heh!

"I don't know how it works!" (that would be Trek Middle Management)

There ain't no place like home. I am home now, happy endings, with a LIME and soda,

cheers,
"Dorothy", or just plain ol' Spanky.

:D
Who, or which one would I be, were I a great man?
NICK LUCAS
SANDY POWELL
GEORGE FORMBY

DREW PEARSON
Ans: the man atop: NICK, for sure!

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Re: Trek Lime: now with mathurin-style sexxy pictures!

Post by John in CR » Jun 29 2009 7:30pm

Spanky,

Sharing the gearing ratios would be great. Sorry if I pegged you wrong figuring that the step through with an accessory like a white woven basket with lime colored flowers on it was up your alley. After decades in New Orleans and Costa Rica I'm accustomed to far less conservative Dorothys.

John

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Re: Trek Lime: now with mathurin-style sexxy pictures!

Post by Reid Welch » Jun 29 2009 10:49pm

Thanks, John. I knew I could joke hard on you, you being a good sport like fechter and everyone else here.

I am learning by slow increments: The LIME is Trek's version of this Shimano-developed system.
http://www.bicycling.com/article/1,6610 ... -1,00.html
There are at least two other bike brands using the same auto-shifting three speed coaster.
The guts of Coasting consist of an electric control box, located under the Lime's bottom bracket, that measures speed, and a dynamo front hub that powers the control unit and shifts up or down. Shift speed can be adjusted somewhat by the rider, but generally, first to second happens at about 7 to 8 mph, and second to third at roughly 11 to 12 mph. One flaw: The three gears could be closer in ratio, but that would likely have you struggling on hills or spun out at 10 mph. To counter this, first gear is quite low, while third is relatively high. The downside of such broad gearing is that there are marked jumps in cadence between shifts.
That wide spacing is not a downside for this rider. And I had not read/found the shift-speed numbers online before just now;
I see that my LIME shifts at just about the speeds I earlier said: L to M at about 8 per, and then to H at about 12 per.
It cruises easy at 16mph or so, and can surely hit 20mph if you are willing to spin like mad. It's, overall, a good compromise/choice
of minimal gears, wide spaced, and you drive it like you do a three speed automatic car: pedal, backpedal to stop. Wait...
I have not had a pedal car since I was four... :)

I like the ipod-like "so clean" look of the Lime.
Mine does not have the stowaway seat; it is the less expensive version, apparently, the "Lite" (says "Lite" on the frame)
I cannot tell what other differences there would be in the full priced Lime: a ding bell standard? Stowaway seat,
and solid, instead of cut-through plastic platform pedals. The shop had two, only, on the floor. I wanted the black,
and I did not find the silver one with its stowage seat to be a comfy seat for me.

Now, at this writing, the Lime is inverted, on the floor, on a clean blanket. I'll get some decent close up pictures of the guts.
Red-striped-wall, manly-looking, Bontrager 2.3" wide Hanks arrive on Friday. I will mount them myself.

Note that the stock tires, as featured in the advert link above, are spec'd as heavy duty, puncture resistant, with grossly thick tubes.
We'll see if those tubes are what I want to keep; I have standard quality spare tubes. I want supple tubes.
The OEM tires are not ideal for pleasure riding; they are like the tires that are fitted to all new cars sold in North America:
all-terrain, mud and slush tires. I don't need such things on my auto; I use "summer tires", like the Goodyear F1 type: quiet and
very grippy on wet roads; just not good for ice or slush, which we do not have here. Dragsters run slicks, don't they? WHY?
Now you know: rubber to the road in the most efficient form possible: a bike tire is round in cross section and cannot hydroplane.
It needs NO tread for road work.

More images to come. Much to look for...through Shimano now, I guess, because, surely, they know and publish the gear ratios of this hub.
-------------
Thanks for following along, folks. This thread was at the top as I posted, so I am not stealing attention from more worthy reviews.

Thanks for any and all inputs, including jokes and jibes like... "You got a whaaaaat? WHY?"

A: because it's simple and technically cool and different enough to appeal to the gadget-addict in me.

More images soon IN THIS POSTING SPACE. Thanks, all!

Another thing that sold me on the LIME is so arcane, so odd to anyone reading this far: the handlebars. I will have to look through thousands of pages, but I have seen this EXACT handlebar described, named, and explained in one of the mid-1890s cycle magazines.
It is truly a classic, beautiful handlebar. It can also be dropped, if one wants to "scorch", go aero, as they used to say then.
I won't be doing that. I just like that tender touch, that nod, to the great, simple bikes of the distant past. And three speed hubs with coaster brake (?) appeared, if I am not mistaken, in the year 1903. What's old is new: now the geared hub unit auto-shifts.

I like the mix of old and new, obviously.
r.


_____________addendum:
Electric shifting may be the coming thing, according to a reporter of Shimano progressions:
http://www.bicycling.com/article/0,6610 ... -2,00.html
Plus, as Soucek says: "At what point is the shifter wireless to the junction box?
Cables would just go from the battery to the [derailleurs],
nothing goes up to the handlebar. That would be slick."
Good. I've got a nothing goes to the handlebar bike with this first-foray into electric shifting, LIME.
Last edited by Reid Welch on Jun 30 2009 2:05am, edited 2 times in total.
Who, or which one would I be, were I a great man?
NICK LUCAS
SANDY POWELL
GEORGE FORMBY

DREW PEARSON
Ans: the man atop: NICK, for sure!

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Now to get more shiftless....

Post by Reid Welch » Jun 29 2009 11:57pm

My gosh, Shimano is working very hard to make electric shifting the norm in the not-too-distant future:
http://www.google.com/search?q=shimano+ ... =firefox-a
choose a link and marvel at it all.
___________
I wish I did not just have an inherent dislike for derailleur bikes. Nuvinci, Shimano, etc: you have an ideal, straight chainline.
Dislike, rage against the way derailleurs are dirt and filth magnets, hard to clean, hard to service, wear out front (aluminum!!!) chain rings, etc...they are simply mechanical monstrostities,

sort of like ancient ICE engines with fully exposed guts and grease cups and oil cups: I love antique engines like everybody does;
cool to look at. However, we don't ride antique ICE stationary engines with their exposed, delicate parts, though mud, dirt, water, nor jump over logs, etc.

I had a Schwinn Varsity ten speed back in the late sixties, when I was thirteen. I pretty much disliked it.
My prejudice is old and not entirely well-founded. I just remember that of all the derailleur bikes I've used, (only a handful),
those that were not in perfect working condition, really were a pain in the...crotch

__________________


edits/corrections: the usual, to clarify Endless :P Fear forums' reid-verbiage
Last edited by Reid Welch on Jul 02 2009 5:51pm, edited 6 times in total.
Who, or which one would I be, were I a great man?
NICK LUCAS
SANDY POWELL
GEORGE FORMBY

DREW PEARSON
Ans: the man atop: NICK, for sure!

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Re: Trek Lime: now with mathurin-style sexxy pictures!

Post by Zoot Katz » Jun 30 2009 12:00am

Reid Welch wrote:. . . Another thing that sold me on the LIME is so arcane, so odd to anyone reading this far: the handlebars. I will have to look through thousands of pages, but I have seen this EXACT handlebar described, named, and explained in one of the mid-1890s cycle magazines.
It is truly a classic, beautiful handlebar. It can also be dropped, if one wants to "scorch", go aero, as they used to say then. . .
My understanding of the origin of "scorch" as applied to bicycling, implied gravity propelled mayhem with your feet off the pedals of your ordinary.

Screaming "NO BRAKES" while charging at a group of gropes is always fun.

I salvaged the most beautiful handlebar off a Polish made ladies Sears single speed. It looked too effeminate for a man to ride. The bike was stolen but I still have the handlebar awaiting a new build. Flipped it would be aero and being narrow might be a better choice than mustache bars for the next build. I'd have to hack the NOS Suntour bar-cons to get them to fit.

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Flaming the Scorchers of the ancient '90s

Post by Reid Welch » Jun 30 2009 12:12am

"Scorchers", wild young men on the public roads, were despised by the league of Wheelmen,
whose main aim was to force into existence, better roads for bikers, and to make cyclists socially acceptable to walkers.
It was just before the automobile came along, that golden age of biking progress: and fraternity was most valued by all;

"Miss Jones is taking up the bicycle!" "Great! Another convert. The more ladies we get on bicycles, the better for all of us;
less social resistance to this new and safer "horse."


But, "scorcher", oh, that was a term of real insult: "He's a fool, that scorcher;
counterproductive to the bicycling community".

Should make an historical thread someday, selecting particularly interesting articles and poems and images
from the old magazines (google book search). It's great to dig and find that our roots are so similar, then and now.
We want bike paths and tolerance from the OTHERS (today the OTHERS are ICE cold monsters).

---
This is totally off topic, but I've done it to myself. OK. Here is a salient point for ALL of you ebiker and trek bikers and so forth:

WE MADE MODERN ROADS HAPPEN in the USA in particular. WE BICYCLERS, beginning in 1879, lobbied and cajoled without cease, for decades, all local and federal officials.

BETTER ROADS came. Yeah, and so, then, just then, came the automobile. BIKES WERE QUICKLY FORGOTTEN in the USA.
The roads, which BELONG to us all, were usurped by automobilists. THIS IS HISTORICAL FACT.

We were there first, with the most energy and can-do. Autos merely took advantage of the cyclists' efforts of decades.

I ride in the middle of untraveled roads. It is MY road, not some cop's road or Hummer's swerve-cell-phone-o-glide path.
I ride in the middle of untraveled roads for my own life's safety. I clear over to the side when a car approaches.
I listen for ICE wagons and get out of their selfish, murderous way.
Who, or which one would I be, were I a great man?
NICK LUCAS
SANDY POWELL
GEORGE FORMBY

DREW PEARSON
Ans: the man atop: NICK, for sure!

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Re: Flaming the Scorchers of the ancient '90s

Post by Zoot Katz » Jun 30 2009 12:27am

Reid Welch wrote:"Scorchers", wild young men on the public roads, were despised by the league of Wheelmen,
whose main aim was to force into existence, better roads for bikers, and to make cyclists socially acceptable to walkers.
It was just before the automobile came along, that golden age of biking progress: and fraternity was most valued by all;

"Miss Jones is taking up the bicycle!" "Great! Another convert. The more ladies we get on bicycles, the better for all of us;
less social resistance to this new and safer "horse."


But, "scorcher", oh, that was a term of real insult: "He's a fool, that scorcher;
counterproductive to the bicycling community".

Should make an historical thread someday, selecting particularly interesting articles and poems and images
from the old magazines (google book search). It's great to dig and find that our roots are so similar, then and now.
We want bike paths and tolerance from the OTHERS (today the OTHERS are ICE cold monsters).

---
Women and children bring a lot of civility to Critical Mass rides.

I always have to laugh when the self righteous anal retentive types accuse me of "giving cyclists a bad name".
Fukit, our name's been mud since day one.
The LAW of old is long gone, it's now the LAB. They have bike racks and stickers on their cars and call you names if you're not wearing a funny hat.

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Back now to the nascent, baby Trek/Shimano

Post by Reid Welch » Jun 30 2009 12:37am

This LIME bike and its two or three affordable siblings of other makes,
are harbingers of YOUR ebiking future: how obvious it will be to have Shimano-type electronic shifting,
so that a Cyclone-type of drive motor can run, at all times, at its speed and load of maximum electrical efficiency.
And you won't need to use your brain: it will shift at all times, just at the right times, either indexed, or NuVinci-like,
and maximize your limited battery power, and get you home when hands must be gloved against freezing temperatures;
no futzing with indexed shifters or twist-shifters, etc.
Just a thumb or other type of throttle on the bar, and a grip-lever for a front brake.

Automatic shifting is here, now, and for cheap, in entry-level bikes like the intrepid, unprepossessing, Trek LIME.
Make your own hay of the Coming Thing? Harvest the benefits that are growing to maturity, fast.

Now, let me get into that LIME's front wheel magneto and post images...
then come images of the Shimano "brain" motor that does the shifts.
Who, or which one would I be, were I a great man?
NICK LUCAS
SANDY POWELL
GEORGE FORMBY

DREW PEARSON
Ans: the man atop: NICK, for sure!

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The Shimano magneto/dynamo power supply for autoshifting

Post by Reid Welch » Jun 30 2009 1:20am

Pictures are in upload. You will please to click the thumbnails, if interested?
This is Shimano's engineering and manufacture.
It is the first on the market, ever, of its type: power supply, no battery needed,
to make a servo or linear-pull motor yank a shifter cable.

The pictures will explain all.
NOTE: the simple electrical plug was LOOSE and just barely on its spring-prong socket.
I will increase the prong's spring pressure, and polish bright the contacts, and plug the plug back in with
Dow Corning silicone plug valve grease (it's thick, inert, and my jar of the stuff, stolen from the USN, dates from about 1950.
It is exactly as fresh as when new, this kind of "grease": prevents corrosion/tarnish. THE magneto or dynamo or whatever it is,
produces two things: voltage and current. The contacts must be clean and bright for proper, reliable operation. We are going to
detail this small, vital unit, and make it weather and time-proof.

What are the bearings inside? Cartridge? Or cup and cone with labyrinth seals? I suspect the latter will be the case.
Will find out soon, and post more thumbnails.

What an EASY front wheel to remove and replace: need only a 10mm Allen wrench!
The tire swap to come in a week, will be a cakewalk.
OK. The thumbnails should be ready now. I can only put ten or fewer images to a posting form,
and I have something like twenty pictures already to show. Next two forms:
Last edited by Reid Welch on Jun 30 2009 1:31am, edited 1 time in total.
Who, or which one would I be, were I a great man?
NICK LUCAS
SANDY POWELL
GEORGE FORMBY

DREW PEARSON
Ans: the man atop: NICK, for sure!

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OFF with its head!

Post by Reid Welch » Jun 30 2009 1:22am

Right hand thread for the hub cover socket screw/wheel fasteners:

Image
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image
Who, or which one would I be, were I a great man?
NICK LUCAS
SANDY POWELL
GEORGE FORMBY

DREW PEARSON
Ans: the man atop: NICK, for sure!

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more of the process:

Post by Reid Welch » Jun 30 2009 1:23am

Image
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image
Who, or which one would I be, were I a great man?
NICK LUCAS
SANDY POWELL
GEORGE FORMBY

DREW PEARSON
Ans: the man atop: NICK, for sure!

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more...to come...to come apart next: to see the bearings

Post by Reid Welch » Jun 30 2009 1:24am

Image
Image
Image
Image

TBC
Who, or which one would I be, were I a great man?
NICK LUCAS
SANDY POWELL
GEORGE FORMBY

DREW PEARSON
Ans: the man atop: NICK, for sure!

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pause for reflection and a physical R & R

Post by Reid Welch » Jun 30 2009 2:17am

Little break of pace.

There is, or was, or never will be a lasting squirt, for I don't know if the LIME will remain indefinitely in the Trek range;
They could give up on the concept if it does not sell well-enough.
Models come, models go. Why order fifty thousand units,
if it takes a year or three to sell them all; and often they must be discounted, it seems, or they gather dust at the LBSs.
Sheeple in Kansas buy 48 speed (jk) mountain bikes with full suspensions front and rear for roads flatter than a chess board played upon by dead mad hatters; this is what they (sheeple) do! (jk). Serious Sunday Lycra Packers, 280 pounds on 12lb. road bikes, hunched, all of them, craned necks, are the same:
18mph sheeple to be shorn (by intelligent marketers) of their excess fleece...that means, money, honey).

People are sheeple; that's the problem with new-concept stuff.

There are two versions: LIME and LIME LITE. I thought on purchase day, that I was getting the upscale LIME:
stowage seat, poor little ding bell (no equal of the even smaller, Incredibell). And it =seems=,
but I am not at all sure, until I talk to a genuine Trek corporate advisor,
that the pricier version of LIME offers a five speed Shimano, if this demonstrator is telling the truth:
http://link.brightcove.com/services/pla ... 1155303290
(it is a female giving a Lime basic video demo. I think she says "five speeds" in her talk...yes FIVE gears in the LIME, and three in the LIME LITE)
CTRL and press the + key to ENLARGE the player, if wanted.
PS: I love women. She is not only attractive, but has a good, basic voice. HOWEVER, her diction is poor at times, unclear speech,
and she ruins the demo with her American-style FLAT monotone. It puts you to sleep!
For instance, as she approaches the upgrade, instead of merely-only-flatly noting (youaresleepyalready),
that the grade causes the bike to SLOW, and auto-downshift, she intones...onnnnnnnnes......(bagpipes of mourning are droning).

She SHOULD say, "Wow, watch this: I'm hitting a grade. I'm thinking of that hot pasta dinner for my husband.
No brainer! The LIME shifted-down for me and I climbed that grade with my weak-girly legs, no sweat! And on the downgrade,
CLICK, it went back to high gear, just like that! I love the LIME SHIMANO concept! THIS is the way to ride a bike; not have a bike that rides YOU."

(that's how to sell new and unfamiliar concepts, clearly, excitingly, to new markets)

~~~~~~~~~~~~~

ARE there five speeds to the top-level LIME? I don't live in San Francisco.
I don't need nor want five friggin' gears. I am glad I have only three speeds in this LIME LITE.
That's plenty for my wants, and gets me over our local, antique, tiny arch bridges, just fine!


______________
edits: spilling kerrections
Last edited by Reid Welch on Jul 02 2009 6:18pm, edited 5 times in total.
Who, or which one would I be, were I a great man?
NICK LUCAS
SANDY POWELL
GEORGE FORMBY

DREW PEARSON
Ans: the man atop: NICK, for sure!

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Reid Welch   10 MW

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Re: Flaming the Scorchers of the ancient '90s

Post by Reid Welch » Jun 30 2009 8:24am

Zoot Katz wrote:
Reid Welch wrote:"Scorchers", wild young men on the public roads, were despised by the league of Wheelmen,
whose main aim was to force into existence, better roads for bikers, and to make cyclists socially acceptable to walkers.
It was just before the automobile came along, that golden age of biking progress: and fraternity was most valued by all;

"Miss Jones is taking up the bicycle!" "Great! Another convert. The more ladies we get on bicycles, the better for all of us;
less social resistance to this new and safer "horse."


But, "scorcher", oh, that was a term of real insult: "He's a fool, that scorcher;
counterproductive to the bicycling community".

Should make an historical thread someday, selecting particularly interesting articles and poems and images
from the old magazines (google book search). It's great to dig and find that our roots are so similar, then and now.
We want bike paths and tolerance from the OTHERS (today the OTHERS are ICE cold monsters).

---
Women and children bring a lot of civility to Critical Mass rides.

I always have to laugh when the self righteous anal retentive types accuse me of "giving cyclists a bad name".
Fukit, our name's been mud since day one.
The LAW of old is long gone, it's now the LAB. They have bike racks and stickers on their cars and call you names if you're not wearing a funny hat.
Thank you, Zoot! I actually did not see your input until just now. Worked on writing last night until tuckered out,
then just woke up a half hour again. Now back to sleep, to dream with the chickens and foxes. I would never mean to intentionally miss responding to any of your postings. You cannot ever de-track a thread like this one (any thread of this grey-coated stealer of eggs in the night);

derailled, hisself,

r.
Who, or which one would I be, were I a great man?
NICK LUCAS
SANDY POWELL
GEORGE FORMBY

DREW PEARSON
Ans: the man atop: NICK, for sure!

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