Aerobic Cruiser Hybrid Cycle

itsmedc65

10 mW
Joined
Aug 28, 2012
Messages
32
Location
SW Cobb County GA USA
Bought my first brand new ebike on Saturday 10 August. An Aerobic Cruiser, AC for short.

THE PRODUCT BACKGROUND
I first found out about the product while searching around on this forum for ideas on converting my old beach “cruiser”.
The write up I saw on it was here http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=30421&p=440660&hilit=aerobic+cruiser#p440660

The company is only a few years old but is backed by Charles McVean who is both very wealthy and, based on some of the interviews I’ve seen on the web, very passionate about the product. This is their first generation e-bike which is promoted as a hybrid cycle and “The Outdoor Exercise Machine”. The bike appears well designed and well built. We will get into the details on it in a moment. Currently they are trying to move some inventory with an eye towards adding a new model and even have some demonstration bikes for sale. So price is variable depending on your selection of new, used or very used. I suggest contacting them and discussing what is available. There have been at least three e-bay auctions for brand new bikes. All three ended without the reserve being met but, the bidding has gone higher each time with the last one I saw ending at just over a thousand dollars.
I paid quite a bit more than that but really wanted this bike because of the large battery pack, full suspension and a desire to explore the benefits I have read about in a foot forward / recumbent style bike.

CONTACT INFORMATION
Website - http://www.aerobiccruiser.com/contact
email - info@aerobiccruiser.com
Call - 1-855-474-3322.
You might catch Blair actually in the office during normal business hours but, most likely he will return your contact within an hour or two. He has been very responsive and easy to deal with; even taking a couple of hours out of his Saturday afternoon to show me around the facility, answer my questions and most importantly insure I was familiar and comfortable with the bike before helping load it into the van. I did not get to see his personal AC but, he told me he has been commuting to the facility on it for a couple of years with no failures or glitches.

DELIVERY
Instead of having mine shipped I decided to drive from the west side of Atlanta, GA to Cordova, TN and pick it up. Even with having to arrange for a van and the gasoline it was slightly cheaper than shipping. More importantly, I wanted to have a test ride and check on the quality first hand before making that final commitment. The ride test was crucial to my decision since I had almost no experience riding a recumbent style bike and the bike is long and somewhat intimidating. When I picked mine up at the build facility near Memphis, TN I saw that they do have about 100 brand new ones fully assembled that appeared ready and waiting for shipment. I also saw several large racks holding bare frames, battery packs, enclosures for the battery and controller, motors and the various parts that go into building these bikes. I also got to see prototypes of a different model and noticed a bike mounted on the Dynojet roller dynometer for testing power output at the wheel.

MY LEVEL
Have been lurking on the forums for a couple of years and made the occasional post. My other ebike experience consists of:
Riding icecube57's Tidal Force S-750 as posted here http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=20398&p=645039&hilit=long+ranger#p632697 . That gave me a big EV Grin and a bad case of “I Want One”.
Next came the local purchase of a used GIANT Lafree step thru in nice condition but without any batteries. The idea was to get my wife on an ebike and then have an excuse to build one for myself. After getting the Lafree to work correctly one time I have been struggling to sort out a fault issue and am ready to just replace the factory controller and battery monitor board with a basic controller for the brushed DC motor.
I had bought some lipo to fit in place of the original lead acid on the Lafree but those are currently powering a BladeZ 450 I rescued from the curbside trash early this year. I had Chris make a harness for it to connect the Turnigy 4s1p lipo bricks in an 8s3p configuration. The scooter has been a fun and relatively cheap learning experience. The harness work that Chris did made switching the BladeZ scooter over to lipo a plug and play conversion. It also allows me to run in series at 29.6V nominal but charge the packs in parallel using an old laptop power supply putting out 16.5V. I also have a Tidal Force S-750 built up as pedal only bike that I intend to convert back to an ebike at some point.

But enough with the introduction, lets get to the good stuff.

First the “e” part of the ebike stuff and this is based mainly on what I see. Not much hard data yet; partly because of the rainy weather and partly because of needing to complete the installation of laminate flooring in the master bedroom. That will make my wife happy; and if Moma ain’t happy then nobody’s happy.

ELECTRICAL PARTS
Batteries - K2 Energy LiFePo 12s10p as a 36V 29Ah pack
Controller - ASI BAC1000
Battery / Controller Box - The battery pack and controller are housed in a large all aluminum enclosure with removable side panels.
- Enclosure also has the key switch and a 4 pin xlr charge port with a weather resistant cover.
Charger - made by High Power Technology in China and is fused with on/off switch and LED indicators.
- Model HP8204L3 for Li-ion batteries.
- Input 115/230VAC 60/50Hz 2.4/1.3A
- Output 36VDC/4A
Motor - MAC 500 watt, geared with disc brake and single sprocket
Dashboard - large screen CycleAnalyst from the spheres own hero (thanks Justin). The Cycle Analyst also has two cords; one with a male plug that carries pack voltage and the other with a female plug that is a communications cable for pulling data from the CA. http://www.ebikes.ca/drainbrain/CA_Large_V23_Update.pdf
Throttle – thumb throttle FT-21X mounted by the right hand grip but, with standard bike brake levers. So no ebrakes.
Connectors are nice automotive type with good weather tight seals both inside the enclosure and along side the inner edge of the swing arm. The ones along the inner edge of the swing arm are held in place with zip ties on to neat little tabs that I assume are welded on the swing arm.
Wiring – covered in a high quality sheathing and tucked neatly out the way.

ENOUGH FOR NOW ... more later

EDIT - Added a couple of pics that I finally got around to resizingBlair with paperwork for AC 8-10-2013 3-18-51 PM.jpgJust unloaded 8-11-2013 07-33-07 AM.jpg

EDIT - adding a picture showing some of the details of the enclosure for the battery and housing.
My apologies for the poor picture lighting but between the rain clouds, work day+3hours spent commuting and working on the laminate flooring home project I have not been able to get good daylight. Will post more pics and some ride data soon.

Not sure if the information and arrows I edited onto the picture is helpful or just clutters it up since there are 9 items being pointed out in the one picture.
The cover is held on by about a dozen allen head bolts with a captured washer/bushing arrangement. The velcro just helps stabilize the battery pack.
 

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Dennis,

Thank you for this very informative post!

I am glad to have met you and proud to have you as an Aerobic Cruiser end-user.

I hope to share this fabulous concept with many more people.

If any one has any questions about Aerobic Cruiser, or if you'd like pricing on the discontinued units, please do not hesitate to contact me.

Blair Hawkins - GM
Aerobic Cruiser Hybrid Cycles
(888) I RIDE AC
info@aerobiccruiser.com
 
Interesting recumbent...

contact1.jpg
 
David .... Emoped here ... aka Harley ... I am in North Georgia alot to. Can you contact me about your NOW longer term test an livability of the Aerobic Cruiser ... I may have interest ... we were on a very similair ebike journey. I too had a Giant LaFree, 2 actually..had better experience than you wrote about. Mine were ridden around Cumming from the Lake. 954-2 ZERO 5-3547 text or email thru the forum. Be Well !
 
blairhawkins said:
David,

Thank you for this very informative post!

...
@blairhawkins
My first thought was who is David? :? Then I checked the paperwork/receipt you handed me; yes, it says Dennis on there. :|
Ooops or what? No worries, I'm usually only good at remembering the first letter of someone's name myself. :)




spinningmagnets said:
Interesting recumbent...

@spinningmagnets
I agree that it is interesting even if the seat is a bit higher than most of the recumbent bikes but, that was part of what interested me in it. Lower than a traditional style bike but not so low and laid back as a typical bent bike.
The feet forward design bikes had caught my attention when I spotted an Electra Townie at the LBS a while back because of the big triangle space = lots of room for batteries in the frame. And of course there is a nicobie's sweet build of a Townie into an ebike http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=23701 and your post on the GBE ebike clone of a Townie http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=51381&p=762141&hilit=etownie.
When I found the Aerobic Cruiser (AC) post and started looking at it in more detail with its nice big LiFePo battery to give me the range and hopefully high life cycle I was looking for and the cleanly executed enclosure and wiring I just kept coming back to it in my mind. Especially after working thru several mockups in coroplast for battery boxes on my other bikes and adding up the cost of parts; not to mention my time for the labor. I also like amberwolf's build (crazybike2 I think?) but am not likely to take time to learn how to weld up my own. Plus, while I like to tinker with stuff, I know how easily I get sidetracked with family and house.
What I really like is to go riding so this seemed like the best option for me even though I bought it without a warranty as part of the deal I worked out with Blair. I figure I will be modding it sooner or later and was not concerned about a warranty once I had a chance to look it over in person and check on the parts being used. During the couple of hours I spent talking with Blair at the build facility in Cordova, TN he told me about how they go thru the MAC's doing a quality check and any needed fixes before reassembling them with a better refit of the parts plus putting thread locker on the fasteners.
The two big stumbling blocks I saw were the price and the length of the AC. After adding up what the parts would cost me in order to create an equivalent bike I was able to work out what I felt like was a fair deal with Blaine... or is it Blair :wink: . Even if I did hit up my dad for a partial loan so I did not have to load up a credit card. And after having ridden it, and my wife having tried it, I am finding it easy to adjust to the length. Have even figured out I can haul it in my short bed truck with its bed mounted tool box. I just need to get one of those axle clamp mounts and fit the mount on top of the tool box. Of course I will have to put the tailgate down but the bike should fit nicely.


emoped said:
David .... Emoped here ... aka Harley ... I am in North Georgia alot to. Can you contact me about your NOW longer term test an livability of the Aerobic Cruiser ... I may have interest ... we were on a very similair ebike journey. I too had a Giant LaFree, 2 actually..had better experience than you wrote about. Mine were ridden around Cumming from the Lake. 954-2 ZERO 5-3547 text or email thru the forum. Be Well !

@emoped
PM sent. And my name is actually Dennis; hopefully Blaine :? :wink: will edit his post with a correction. Glad to find another ebiker in the Atlanta vicinity. Do you know 'icecube57' or 'e-biker' who are also around the Atlanta area?
I presume it was you I was competing with for the Lafree I bought in Austell last year after the ebay auction failed to meet the reserve. I was trying to negotiate a better deal with Sue but she said someone in Cumming, GA had already offered to buy it.
Are you on lake Lanier? That is a nice area and I know a lot of people are happy the drought has ended. Just wish it had not switched over to record high rainfalls.
 
Yes there is an ebay listing right now with 1k+ "reserve not met" in bids, but the listing shows like 50 of these bikes lined up for sale. Some look to be abused a bit. Curious to see what one actually sells for. Apparently the seller does not like "Buy It Now" auctions!
 
RoadWrinkle said:
Yes there is an ebay listing right now with 1k+ "reserve not met" in bids, but the listing shows like 50 of these bikes lined up for sale. Some look to be abused a bit. Curious to see what one actually sells for. Apparently the seller does not like "Buy It Now" auctions!

Buy it now just added.

Why is it that forum folk are so aggressive? :D
 
1st ride report
I have put exactly 40 miles on the bike and have not charged it since picking it up in Cordova, Tennessee. The voltage when I got it home was at 39.9 and is currently sitting at 39.5 as I type this and Total Ah used is 15Ah.
Most of the miles were put on during a Sunday afternoon ride on 25 August 2013. The rest was put on during a couple of test runs using the route I take on a regular basis when I commute to the bus stop. I wanted to be able to make a comparison to my pedal bikes average speed for a ride I am very familiar with. Those short rides also gave me a chance to get more familiar with the bike and meant I would be less than three miles from home if something did go wrong.
My overall impression at this point is that I like the bike more and more every time I ride it. The suspension is starting to settle in and the rear disc and pads are getting seated in which is improving the stopping power at the rear. The front rim brake had good stopping power from the very first ride. Overall I would say it makes a good combination and the front fork and hub are ready to be upgraded to a disc brake anytime you wanted to. Having experienced the difference between the rim brakes on a typical big box store bike and one with a set of good brake pads I have a clear impression of the difference a good set of pads make with rim brakes. I have also read about the Avid BB7 setup that is used for the rear brake on this bike needing a little wear in period before they achieve best performance. My personal experience seems to be reflecting this as well. Pumping the tires up from 35psi to around 50psi also greatly improved the way the bike felt to me.
The Nexus 3 speed hub that is used is a mid-mounted transmission is perfect for 18-20mph in 2nd gear (direct 1.00) with my pedalling cadence combined with the motor. I have no idea what my cadence is; I just know the combination feels right to me. 3rd gear is great for letting me use my pedalling input when pushing the speed on up to the 25-30 mph range on the downhill sections. For a comparison, on my Bianchi I hit around 22-23mph on those same downhill sections with about the same amount of effort and my max speed on the Bianchi has been a touch over 30 with the gravity engine assist and max pedalling effort. Where the motor really makes a difference is on the uphill parts as most ebike riders already know. On the Aerobic Cruiser I am going in the 15-20mph range on the uphill sections that, on the Bianchi, I would only going about 6-8mph. When my wife took a short ride on the AC the day after I brought it home she was comfortable around 12-14mph in first gear and she has not ridden a bike in years. Her 5 foot 4 inch medium frame was accommodated as easily as my 5 foot 10 inch medium frame. I would put Blair at a bit over six feet tall and the bike fits him easily as well. All of this with nothing more than a simple adjustment of the seat along the sliding frame rail.
My only issues so far have been 2 loose fasteners and wishing I had a lower first gear at times. Even though the geared hub motor handles getting the bike moving using only the throttle even with my 200 lbs on board, I know for best effeciency and to help stretch the range I like to get the bike moving with pedal power up to about 7-8mph. This bike does not really need help with range because of the very large Ah pack but I'm the guy who has argured with his wife because her driving is less efficient than mine. So the only major upgrade I would look to make is putting in a Nexus/Alfine 8 or 11 speed in place of the 3 speed but, only because I like to be able to pedal easily at slow speeds without using the motor. I did practice some slow speed handling in the empty park and ride lot at the bus stop. After just a few minutes I could easily circle round and round in either direction within the confines of 2 parking spaces. I also practiced turning around at slow speeds in both directions and after a little experimenting could do that within the same width of 2 parking spaces. One technique I used would be familiar to most motorcycle riders which is where I learned it. The trick is to use the throttle to make the bike stand up if it feels like it is about to fall over in the middle of the turn. I have not tried turning my current pedal bikes at slow speeds in the same amount of space but think it would be hard to do it in much less space. Guess that is an experiment I will have to conduct.
I have been taking notes down of the Cycle Analyst readings on each ride and will put up some hard data for my next update.
 
Ypedal said:
If i remember correctly, Josh Kerson ( might have spelled that wrong ) was involved with this at some point was he not ?

@Ypedal
Blair did confirm that Josh was involved with refining the frame design.


blairhawkins said:
RoadWrinkle said:
Yes there is an ebay listing right now with 1k+ "reserve not met" in bids, but the listing shows like 50 of these bikes lined up for sale. Some look to be abused a bit. Curious to see what one actually sells for. Apparently the seller does not like "Buy It Now" auctions!

Buy it now just added.

Why is it that forum folk are so aggressive? :D

@blairhawkins
HEY ... whats up with $1750 buy it now price on the ebay auction ... that is less than I paid for mine. :evil: :p Do I get a partial refund :wink:

Seriously though, if I had the money I would go buy another one for my wife to ride.
Anybody want to buy a GIANT Lafree step thru for $1750? It looks great and has fresh batteries; I would also be willing to trade it for a used Aerobic Cruiser.
.
AC at bus stop left side stand up 2013-08-16.jpg

EDIT - Add some pictures

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Avid BB7 rear disc.jpg
Shimano Deore HB M525 VIAM Disc ready.jpg
 
Update on how the bike is doing ...

The Good and some data
The bike was fully charged when I picked it up and I have charged it one time since I picked it up.
On the initial charge I used 21Amp hours and traveled 45 miles total.
When I charged I monitored the progress with the Cycle Analyst which was interesting to watch. The charger is set-up to do a Constant Current of about 4.1 amps until it hits 42 volts and then goes into Constant Voltage mode. I watched it taper off the current until it got to less than 1/2 an amp (0.40) and then I manually stopped the charge. Next charge I will let it go until the charger shuts itself off. The total in was a bit more than the total out and I am not sure if that is because of accuracy issues at the relatively low amps used during the charge or other factors.
Charging Totals from the Cycle Analyst are:
23.29 Amp hours total in on one view OR if you prefer 23.995 Regen Amp hours (Regen Amp hours were at 0 zero when charging started)
40.1 volts 24 hours after charging was stopped.

On the usage side the current Totals / Averages are:
73 miles total
29 Amp hours total
15.7 Watt hours/mile average for the 73 miles
17mph average speed for 73 miles
That is with moderate to moderately hard pedaling but, does includes over 6 miles using only the motor and two motor only acceleration tests to 19.9mph. The motor only acceleration test showed 0 to 19.9mph in approximately 11 seconds on level ground with me at 210lbs. Most of the miles have been on the Silver Comet trail since I live just over a mile from it. The trail has an average grade of 2%.
The single longest non-stop ride so far was late the day after I charged the bike; I rode from home to the start of the trail in Smyrna, GA and back home. That ride was 23.76 miles used 7.771 Amp hours or 301 Watt hours at an average of 12.7 Watt hours per mile.
Bike has performed well with the only two issues. One of those issues being a self-induced unplanned modification on the first real ride. The other is most likely a manufacturing defect on one of the regular bicycle parts. More about both of those items in the section below headed as “The Interesting”.

The Interesting
First up is the unplanned modification I mentioned above, which was my fault and induced because of a pent up desire to go for a ride. The pent up part was caused by having had the bike for several days with only rainy weather and a home project commitment to complete. When I finally got a chance to go for a real ride my common sense went lacking. Basically, I went riding wearing loose legged baggy jeans with a slight cuff rolled in and no strap to hold the pants leg out of the way. The long down pointing part of the chain guard at the rear edge of the front chain ring snagged the cuff several times while pedaling. This tweaked the guard so it was contacting the right crank on every pedal rotation. If common sense had been available I would have done something to prevent it either before the ride or the first time or two it snagged. Instead I kept going until the unplanned modification became too obvious to ignore. It was easily fixed once I got home but resulted in having to use the motor only for about half of the return trip.
The other interesting thing that happened was with the front tube. It is a KendaQ and judging by the thickness and weight of the tube is a thorn resistant one. I had ran it awhile at 50psi and that worked well but was looking to improve the rolling efficiency and the front tire sidewall pressure is recommended for 85-110psi. So I pumped up the front to 85 and the rear to the 65psi recommended on that tire. Went on a 23 mile ride from home to the start of the trail in Smyrna and back. It was late afternoon when I left and fully dark by the time I got back. During the ride the only problems I experienced were the spray due to a lack of fenders, combined with that morning’s rain runoff across the trail, and finding that the Cat Eye reflector light is more useful for letting other people know where you are in the dark than actually lighting up where you are going. Oh… and that the Cycle Analyst screen needs an adjustment to the brightness level for night use; I’m thinking a piece of window tint cut to fit might work out.
The next day I am working on a taillight issue on my wife’s car when I hear a soft pop and a hissing sound I recognize as likely being a deflating tire. My initial thought was the pop-up camper had popped another valve stem because of the high pressures used for its tires. Actually, it was the front tube on the AC but it was an odd failure in that the rubber around the valve stem itself had split. Thinking back to the previous night I did remember hitting something on the trail in the dark because I heard it twang on the front spokes and slap the bottom of the frame. An additional possibility came up when I went looking at for a replacement tube of the same type from the same manufacturer. The feedback on Amazon revealed several similar failures of these tubes around the valve stem area. It appears Kenda may have been having a bit of quality control issue with the manufacturer of some of their tubes. One entry was from March of this year and a couple of others from experienced bicyclist over the last couple of years. The rear tube at 65 psi seems to be doing ok but, I may lower the pressure back down to 50psi for now and go get a spare tube for both wheels. For now I replaced the front tube with a Bell brand tube (China made) from the big box store but did opt for the self-sealing one. Will see how it does even though it was noticeably thinner than the Kenda one I took out.
Blair reported that they have been running several Aerobic Cruisers at 45psi with no problems from the Kenda tubes.


The Opportunities
The one issue I have that needs my immediate attention is the rear chain. The Aerobic Cruiser has 2 chains with one from the big 67 tooth front chanin ring back to a 21 tooth input on the Nexus 3 speed IGH that is being used as a transmission. The front chain has a nice spring loaded guide/tensioner but I do need to adjust the tension a little tighter on it . The rear chain runs from the Nexus 3 speed hub also on a 21 tooth sprocket back to the single 20 tooth sprocket on the hub motor. There is no tensioner on the rear chain and at times I pedal pretty hard to get maximum speed. This has stretched the chain slightly and was not something I had even thought about dealing with because it has been years since I had a bike without a derailleur. While I could adjust it by sliding the motor axle back a bit in the rear drop outs I know it is better to have it all the way up against the closed end of the drop out to reduce stress on the drop out and prevent problems. So I need to work up a simple tensioner to keep everything happy. Hopefully now that I’ve done the initial break-in stretch it will be good for a while once I set it up with a little tensioner.
 
Quick update on the need for a tensioner on the rear chain that goes from the Nexus 3 IGH to the rear wheel. I may eventually put a nice tensioner on but for now a redneck retrofit will handle the issue. If the picture looks like a section of 4 inch diameter schedule 40 PVC pipe that has been cut in half that is what it is. A few small holes drilled in the PVC and a few zipties to hold it to the swingarm and the problem is taken care of. I do still need to get an 18mm cone wrench to adjust the tensioner on the front chain.
 

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Updating the review with information about the bicycle parts of this bike.

- Standover height of the bike is aproximately 24 inches. With a VERY low center of gravity and is well balanced.
My wife and an older male friend who has a Prodeco X2 both commented on how nicely the bike handles.

- Weight measured on my decade old bathroom scale was 52lbs rear and 48 lbs front with the charger in the tailbag.

- Length - Aprox 65" inch wheelbase and 89" overall including the tires.

- THE SEAT - Made by Rans seat bottom and backrest and everyone who tries it loves it. And the design of the bike fram and seat mounting simultaneously adjust both height and distance from the pedals in a way that just works. The adjustment works for a wide range of leg lengths. The total range of horizontal for the seat bottom is 12" and that varies the vertical height by 5" over that range. My 5' 8" with a 32" inseam is adjusted right in the middle of the adjustment range of the seat bottom. And Rans offers a variety of bags designed to work with these seats.

- Handlebars - Made by Rans 3-Way Chopper adjustable for height as well as angle. That Rans guy makes some nice stuff that just works. I do notice a tiny amount of flex when I am really pedaling at max effort and pulling hard on the bars but then look at how tall they are and I have them adjusted up about 3" out of a possible 4.75" range. Rans offers a bag for these handlbars that acts as a fairing and is available from the Rans website for $133.35

- Headstem - Ritchey with what appears to be a custom handlebar clamp with 6 allen bolts

- Front Fork - Mekkam? MEKS (SASO) MK128-20DS adjustable suspension fork with mounts for both rim and disc brakes.
??? If anyone can provide more information on this fork for either adjustments or rebuilding please post it here or PM me

- Front Brake - Shimano Deore rim brake. With good pads and the Alex wheel it does a good job of stopping the bike.

- Front Wheel - 20" inch Alex DX32 laced to a Shimano Deore hub that has the mounting holes for a disc brake if you wanted to add it.

- Front Tire - Maxxis Grifter 20" x 2.1" with EXO protection

- Crankset - VERO FSA aproximately 175mm

- Pedals - Wellgo platform

- Front Sprocket / Chainring 67 tooth with Aerobic Cruiser logo cut into it

- Front chain tensioner / guide - tensioner arm engraved with "Aerobic Cruiser"

- Transmission - Shimano Nexus 3 speed hub mounted mid-ship with 21 tooth sprockets for input and output
- Shifter - Shimano Nexus 3 speed twist grip shifter

- Rear chain tensioner / guide - none from factory. Created a tensioner of sorts from a half section of 4" PVC pipe that also protects the swingarm cross brace from chain rub

- Rear shock - Marzocchi with 650 x 1.5 spring

- Rear Sprocket - 20 tooth on a MAC 7T hub motor

- Rear Wheel - 26" inch Alex DX32 Downhill

- Rear Tire - Maxxis Hookworm 26" x 2.5" inch

- Rear Brake - Avid BB7 MTN

- Brake Lever - Tektro (NOT ebrake equipped)

- Tail bag - Topeak MTX Quick Track
- Mirrycle bar end mirrors (2)
- Bike bell - Mirrycle Incredibell
 
Had a vistor this weekend and he took a ride on the AC and let me ride his latest build. Of course it absolutely blows the AC away on performance but that is to be expected with a vented GM MP2 running 18S (66v noninal) and 65amps thru a Lyen 12 FET controller that is to be expected. I had forgotten what it was like to ride a full on high caliber DIY ebike and it really put a big EV grin on my face. Of course it also has me itching to modify the AC but, I will have to start a mod thread when I do that.
So now that I have hijacked my own review I mainly wanted to say ...
Hopefully he will add his thoughts on the AC to the review at some point although he only rode it for a few miles. I am also aware of another ES member who was planning on picking up an AC and who I hope will add his experiences to the review.
 
My impression of the AC is that it was very loooong. Considering I have to transport my bike to wherever I ride recreationally this would be the first pitfall of the bike. Its wider than my car by 1+ foot on each side.

The comfort of the seat was top notch. I didn't get to dial it in to my comfort zone but the seat cushion was very thick and plush and the crank forward feel was weird at first but i quickly got used to it. There is the feeling that you are sliding off the seat which i think stems from it not being adjusted for me properly but it felt good having my whole butt supported instead of a bike seat making love to my sensitive taint.

The steering is definitely something to get used to. I'm a big guy with a bit of the gut and trying to get it to do a tight turn is very hard. Planning your turns and making them wide is the key to not making a fool out of yourself.

The speed on the AC is not fast at all but its something that you can surprisingly learn to deal with. It forces you to kick back and relax and enjoy the sights of your ride. Unlike my bike you have to be stiff and tense and ready to bail at a moment's notice.

The acceleration is smooth and gentle. There is no whiplash on take off it just just naturally engages the motor. The thing I don't like about it is if you find yourself needing to power through a situation you don't have the power,speed or torque there to get you through it but I take it as a sign you shouldn't do your dangerous feat anyway.

Top speed is around 21-22 with a little bit of help from an incline. The way it rides you know it was built for long distance touring.

The torque output is decent with the power of the motor topping out at around 1000w it does have SOME life in it but definitely with the curb weight of this bike and my weight it does require pedaling to maintain speed. The motor is there as an assist and I think its made with the expectation that you will pedal and they made it very comfortable to do so but this sorta kinda stomps on the appeal of an electric bike. I think it needs a little bit more guts.. not for speed but for torque. Dennis has the programming cable so i hope he can address this issue.

Its hard to get the bike rolling from a dead spot even in the lowest gear. You pretty much have to use the motor to assist on startup. You top out very quickly in the gears of the 3 speed nexus hub. You won't have a whiskey throttle incident on take off due to the tame engagement of the motor. It also seems like the tallest gear is a bit lower than I wanted. With the seating stance you feel that you can put much more effort than the gearing will allow which is a downfall.v

The balance and feel of the bike grows on you and the weight distribution and center of gravity is very low on this bike. The battery sits low and forward in the frame which balances things out a bit but I don't think balance is to much of an issue especially with the bike's long stance and COG.

Brakes felt good and tight and it could stop on a dime. No ebraking with the geared motor he has but the bike has a low speed and the stock brakes are very effective.

i was surprised to see a suspension fork and its a quality fork. Looked beefier than mine on my bike.

My final verdict is that if you have long trips where you don't interact with traffic much and want to go the distance and comfort is of the essence then this is it. Great for Dennis . Traffic isnt bad. He actually has alot of stores and stuff nearby to where he can ride and his actually be a useful alternative transportation. He is right next to the Silver Comet Trail.

For me I live on the busier side of town. No trails are around me. I have to transport my bike on my trunk rack on my car. The terrain and hills are motor killers here. I'm heavier so i tend to need more torque and speed and momentum to get through my area. People are homicidal so unless you are going a decent speed you are a greasy spot on the pavement. Since I have the need for speed it doesn't suit me that well in that department either. But again it goes back to being able to transport this thing. I could fix and tweak all the other pitfalls but the length of this is the deal killer.

Some reason i feel like i should close this out with the facts of life theme song.
 
IC, is the controler programable? My 8t hits 30= on 36v and over 35 on 44.
That's a 7t so i would expect more top end than you see.
I would also expect some more low ned being a geared hub. Heavy, yes but not a tank.

I've followed this thread but don't remember which controller it has. Would guess it's set a little soft and or limited top speed.

Dan
 
I picked the bike up from Blair almost two weeks ago at their assembly location and was impressed. Rode a little, was immediately convinced, and then we loaded it into the truck for the 500 mile journey back to KC. It was worth every mile, even driving through St Louis in the &*# raining rush hour!
Just when I thought I had found the ultimate alternative transportation in my Sun Trike X-3 AX with a Staton 35cc kit on it, I had to ride the AC. Another one in the stable along with a mid-drive Sun step through!
I first dialed the AC's suspension down front and rear and it is very smooth, unlike the trike. It corners like a dream on the 2.1 and 2.5 tires and seems to be made for both the road or paths. Living in MO, in a hilly lake community, it is getting a workout but my riding technic is improving. Down the hills in 2nd, then 3rd, cornerning fairly fast, up the hills, downshifting to 2nd, then 1st and only then, applying just enough throttle to crest the hill. I do also nudge the throttle at dead stop just to maintain balance and get up to a cruising speed in 2nd gear.
I let my neighbor ride and it is now referred to as the "Cadillac". It is very well, if not overly engineered (a good thing). I usually customize EVERYTHING but I may have met my match with this one. That said, I may add some things. A scooter windscreen for fall, some winter, and early spring riding, and a pannier rack for side bags. I believe the Sun EZ SC1 rack will fit under the MTX rack bag. It was made for underseat on the Sun EZ3 trikes but I am sure it will work for those wanting more cargo space. More on that later. I will probably add a couple more water bottle cages and and an AirZounds horn since I ride on the street a lot.
I did 3 short rides, then 12 mi, then 24mi, charging after each ride and not resetting the CA. Some of this is redundant, but here is some data from the CA in screen order:
1. 40.1V 1 or 2W 44.77Mi 22.54Ah 2. 40.1V 1W 2W .04A 22.54Ah 3. Watt-hrs 874.31 Wh/mi 19.4 4. %Regen 0.7% Regen Ah 0.1596 Fwd Ah 22.706 5. A min 4.65 A max 33.24 V min 37.1 6. MaxS 35.4 AvgS 16.0 2 hrs 47 m 49 s 7. Finally, what I would call the summary screen Cyclo 0 TotAh 23 TotMi 45
There is more info here than anyone needs but it does tell battery condition and approximate range per charge. My range figures to be approximately 65 miles, more as my pedaling, shifting and throttle technic improves.
In summary, this is one great ebike. suitable for commuting, shopping, exercising (if you want), and just plain recreation. Just be prepared to draw a crowd as i did yesterday. It is extremely well built, is smooth, very comfortable and everything works as it should. The Ebay buy it now price is a bargain. Get one while you still can. I'm glad I did.
 
DAND214 said:
IC, is the controler programable? My 8t hits 30= on 36v and over 35 on 44.
That's a 7t so i would expect more top end than you see.
I would also expect some more low ned being a geared hub. Heavy, yes but not a tank.

I've followed this thread but don't remember which controller it has. Would guess it's set a little soft and or limited top speed.

Dan

It has the ASI BAC1000 for a controller. I do have the configuration software and am ABOUT to order the cable. Even though the shipping and other fees from Canada are more than the cable. Oh well.

As for the settings impacting the performance I would guess there is a ramp rate and it is set soft/slow which helps the gears and clutch live longer especially with the weight of the huge pack and long frame. The flip side is everything does seem to be very well built.

As for the speed being limited... yes the bike has a little sticker that explains it meets this code and that code to be considered a low speed electric bike and I feel certain that is done in the controller as well.
 
UPDATE – I have put 136 miles total on the AC and charged the pack three times. It was fully charged when I picked it up at the Aerobic Cruiser facility in Cordova, TN. The last charge was after my ride described in this post. Leaving the bike on let me watch how the charger behaved. Was interesting the first time, less so the second time and I just checked it intermittently this last time. The simplified version is it charges at about 4 Amps and 42 volts during the Constant Current phase and then tapers to as little as 0.22 amps during the Constant Voltage phase. I have not been patient/diligent enough to see exactly what amps it terminnates the charge. But I did let it terminate completly on its own for one of the charges which it did completly. The resting voltage displayed on the CA after about 12 hrs is 40.1Volts and my cheapo harbor freight Cent-Tech multimeter showed 39.8 volts at the charge port.
In simple terms if you ride out 16Ah it will take around 4 hours to fully charge. And since it is a 12s pack according to the label on it, the resting voltage after charge works out to about 3.34 volts per cell and is just below the 3.38 Open Circuit voltage of LiFePo4. At least that is my understanding; see I told you it would be a simple explanation.
Really it means the pack should live a nice long life as long as you don't run it out of juice; and I plan on staying well below the 80% Depth of Discharge mark (aprox 23Ah for 80% by my SWAG).

SHEESH ... is this a review or a technical opinion session :shock: :D

The single biggest chunk of miles were put on Sunday when I did a test "commute" ride from home to the office and back. Was a 43 mile round trip that started with a full charge and a reset on the Cycle Analyst.

DATA for that trip shows:
40.1 volts - starting voltage approximately 12 hours after the charge completed
42.99 miles
17.952 Ah
690.16 Watt Hours
16.0 Watt Hours per Mile
32.15 Amps Max
37.6 Volts minimum
38.9 mph Max Speed (gravity is my friend and my enemy depending on which side of the hill I’m on)
17.9 mph Avg Speed
2 hours 24 minutes 00 seconds (2:24:00)
39.2 volts - Ending voltage when I stopped in my driveway. The voltage bounced up a bit after resting but I failed to write it down before I charged the pack back up.

THE BIKE
Tires where at 54psi front and 56psi rear. I did not weigh the bike but I was loaded and dressed for the trip much like I would be when going to the office. So I had my laptop bag bungeed on top of the tail bag and the tail bag was loaded with the charger, some tools, logbook and other miscellaneous items. Of course I also had a water bottle, keys, phone and wallet. What I DID NOT have was the locks I bought and still have to figure out the mounting for on the bike. A previous weighing on my decade old bathroom scale shows 48lbs front and 52 pounds read with the charger in the tailbag. Not done in an accurate manner but close enough for goverment work.

THE ROUTE
For the curious who like to look at maps you can see the route here (minus the first and last mile or so) http://veloroutes.org/bikemaps/?route=105504
The elevation image is more dramatic on the trail portion than I would have thought but seems about right for the road portion. First time I have used the site so maybe I did something to affect that.
On the ride to the office the first half of it is on the Silver Comet trail from around mile 11 to the trail head near Vinnings / Smyrna, GA. From there the ride turns down Atlanta Rd (going southeast) from where it meets Cumberland Pkwy/East West Connector all the way down to the Chattahoochee river and ends near the MARTA headquarters at the Lindbergh station just off Piedmont Rd in Atlanta. I took the same route both ways.

TIME
I started at 11:48AM Eastern time and was back at the house by 3:30PM. Stopped for a relaxed snack at the midpoint and then stopped by both LBS that are along the way during the return trip.
Plugs for the LBS’s:
The Silver Comet Depot (silvercometdepot.com ) is right on the trail around mile 5 or 6 at Floyd Rd. First time I had been inside.
Smyrna Bicycles ( http://www.smyrnabicycles.com ) is in a small strip of stores on Camp Highland Rd near the trailhead. Smyrna Bicycles does have an ebike by GIANT for rent but almost no takers according to the owner. He was helpful when I was trying to sort out my Lafree ebike by GIANT and seems like a nice guy. He also came out and looked at the AC and helped me confirm it takes an 18mm Cone Wrench to adjust the guide/tensioner on the front chain.
I have not been over to my LBS in Powder Springs since they moved to their new location near the Florence Rd / Silver Comet intersection around mile 13 but, Hamlet is a good guy so I want to give them a plug as well (http://www.boneshakerbicycles.com/ ).
Note: I have no financial interest in the LBS's and recieve no compensation from them. Although I do go visit Hamlet on occasion just to hang out and have bought a few things from him.

MY EFFORT
The ride was done with moderate to moderately hard pedaling under beautiful weather. I found I was adding from 1 to 3 mph to whatever the motor only speed was when on the Silver Comet Trail. On the road section some of the hills that would boost my max speed over 38mph on the return trip I was able to climb on the way to the office at 11mph at the top with full throttle and 1st gear pedaling. My max speed on the way in was a little over 34 mph on the same route. I did feel like I was able to add some pedaling assistance to gravity even at 35 mph plus. The motor assist is limited to 20mph but makes it a lot easier to maintain that plus a bit more with pedaling. Of course the motor also makes the uphill parts much easier. Got to love the gearing on those downhill sections from the 67 tooth front sprocket to Nexus 3 speed IGH as a mid-mounted transmission with 21 teeth in and 21 teeth out to a 20 tooth sprocket on the hub motor for the rear chain. If someone wants to calculate out the chain inches for all that feel free to post it.

WEATHER (PERFECT)
At the start of the ride it was 68 degrees Fahrenheit and 54 percent humidity with 7 mph winds and sunny skies.
At the midpoint it was 73 degrees Fahrenheit and 54 percent humidity with 7 mph winds and sunny skies.
End point was 73 degrees Fahrenheit and 47 percent humidity with no wind and cloudy skies

THE RIDE AND OTHER THOUGHTS
The trail was busy as you might expect on such a beautiful day which means paying extra attention, especially around kids and unsteady riders of any age. Several of the under 6 crowd pointed at the AC and commented with great enthusiasm. Also had a few other positive comments and conversations from riders and walkers. The bike definitely gets noticed as recumbents are still a minority of the bikes out there and this one is a bit different than the other "bents" on top of that. There were also a lot of walkers/joggers on the trail who I always try to give plenty of room; especially when they have earbuds blocking out the sounds around them. Traffic on the roads was light but the twin mirrors the bike comes with makes it easier to keep on eye on approaching vehicles. Of course the other big hazard is vehicles turning directly across your travel path. So I also had the factory installed Cat-eye reflector lights going front and rear. While I have additional lighting on my bag for the rear, a better headlight for the front is on order.
The only glitches I had with the bike was one self-induced but scary moment when the cranks felt like they had locked up. The motor was still able to power the bike along. Luckily the issue was caused by my having moved the twist-shift part way between 2nd and 3rd gear and that had caused the Nexus 3 speed IGH / Transmission to bind up until I moved the shifter. That happened about 20 miles into the trip and I have done it one other time shortly after I got the bike.
The other glitch was when the rear chain jumped off on the return trip home. It happened near the start of the Silver Comet trail just after the downhill section from Smyrna Bicycles but before you get to the Mavell Road parking area. I was able to slip it back on, wipe my hands on a rag I had brought along and pedaled / motored along without problem the remaining 11 miles home. It did re-enforce that I need to put a better chain guide / tensioner on the rear chain. Even though my redneck retrofit tensioner made out of a section of 4 inch pvc pipe has been working ok for the last 90 miles or so; at least until this happened. I already have an idea to use an old derailleur cut down to act as a guide/tensioner based on some of the DIY examples I have seen on single speed setups. I have thought about using a half link and shortening it up and even adjusting the position of the motor/axle. I may still do the half link but want to keep the motor firmly buried at the full depth of the rear fork dropouts to minimize any chances of axle spinout. I did check and tighten up both axle nuts just a bit before this ride. Probably over torqued them just a bit but better that than a little under torqued. As a side note the drop outs surface area for the axle measure 0.375 inches wide or thick using my dial-caliper.

Except for those two instances the bike performed wonderfully. My legs where tired the next day and would not have wanted to tackle the ride again but, I finished up my afternoon at the house climbing up and down a ladder to clean gutters and detaching some dead tree limbs hanging over the deck. I had previously noticed that riding this recumbent style bike does work some different muscles than a regular diamond frame (DF) bike and that was re-enforced the next day. There was some mild soreness in the hamstrings and glutes but just enough to let me know I had done a bit more than usual. If I had tried this on a non-ebike I probably would have had to come home and flop on the couch for the rest of the day and then not been able to walk the next day. At fortysomething I don’t bounce back like I used to.

One of the reasons I selected this bike was the desire to have a big enough battery pack to do my commute without needing to charge at work because I do not have a place I can charge on the bike without risking the charger going missing. If you go by the information given on the Aerobic Cruiser web site http://www.aerobiccruiser.com/innovation/ the 690 Watt Hours used would be 69% of the 1,000 Watt hours claimed for the battery pack. So this means I can do my commute with a little less effort and still stay below the 80% Depth of Discharge (DoD) that is supposed to help the LiFePo4 pack live longer. I believe the pack has even more capacity than that and at some point I will do a full discharge test with assistance from Chris at http://lipoconnectionsolutions.com/ . Chris (icecube) is my dealer of EV grins when a stock factory ebike or kit wiring is just not good enough. Yes, that is a shameless plug but, he has let me ride 2 of his high performance builds and I may need another EV grin fix soon. Plus I have plans to modify mine and am already familiar with the quality of his work so I feel comfortable plugging his site.
Once I sort out mounting the locks on the bike I plan on doing the commute during the week and enjoying the excitement of bicycling with Atlanta traffic.
Enough for now; more later.AC at MARTA 2013-09-29.jpg
 
Looks like Aerobic Cruiser is in clearing out the inventory mode. I see on eBay they are selling bare frames with the swingarm, rear shock and the speed sensor switch installed.
 
Dennis and I took a ride this past weekend. 44 miles round trip and I must say the cruiser is efficient as hell. I had double the voltage but half the AH he did. He was consuming 50% less power than I was. Not saying that we were putting forth the same amount of effort I was doing an honest bit of work also (looks around) ...from time to time. I consumed 21-22wh/mi he was doing 10-12wh/mi and we both averaged the same speed on our CA. He could have went another 30+ miles if he wanted to while my pack could barely do another 10-15 if i pushed myself and my pack to the limit. Its a very unfair comparison but this isn't the only time ive seen this efficiency imbalance happen. I must give a hand to recumbents and see how i can join the bandwagon.
 
icecube57 said:
Dennis and I took a ride this past weekend. 44 miles round trip and I must say the cruiser is efficient as hell. I had double the voltage but half the AH he did. He was consuming 50% less power than I was. Not saying that we were putting forth the same amount of effort I was doing an honest bit of work also (looks around) ...from time to time. I consumed 21-22wh/mi he was doing 10-12wh/mi and we both averaged the same speed on our CA. He could have went another 30+ miles if he wanted to while my pack could barely do another 10-15 if i pushed myself and my pack to the limit. Its a very unfair comparison but this isn't the only time ive seen this efficiency imbalance happen. I must give a hand to recumbents and see how i can join the bandwagon.

GENERAL THOUGHTS
While our ride was about the same distance as my round trip commute the first half was at a much slower pace than the commute and the second half was at about the same pace as the commute. The first half of our ride I rarely got out of first gear. The next day, or two, I also realized I had worked a bit harder than I do on my commute even with the slower pace. Doing a slower 44 miles spread over most of the morning is a bit different than doing 22 miles, working at the office for 9 hours, and then doing the other 22 miles. The commute is much easier on the body even tho it is at a higher average speed; or maybe I just worked that much harder on the trail ride. The watts used from the pack was definitiely much lower for a similar distance but, this ride also didn't include the roller coaster hills that are on the last part of the commute.
While I still have not checked how accurate the Amp usage measurements are, looking at the differences in pack voltage after it has rested and how far the bike has gone it seems to be reasonably accurate. Going along with Chris we were at least able to compare distance/speed readings directely against each other and they were consistently close. So we are either both right for that part or at least set-up to the same degree of error.
Saw parts of the trail I had not been on before and really starting to appreciate just how nice it is to have it so close by. Need to make a donation to the rail to trail foundation for sure.
While the pack might have been able to go another 30 miles with me working as hard as I had been that morning, there was no way I could keep working that hard. Now, if I went into pure fake pedal mode, then we both could have probably made another 15-18 miles but that would have taken the Depth Of Discharge (DOD) down further than I want to go if I can avoid it.

THE ROUTE
Mapped it on veloroutes ... http://veloroutes.org/r/106206
Silver Comet Trail from Florence Rd to the store by Coot's Lake; where they don't have biscuts on the weekend.

THE BIKE
Tires at 58 psi front and rear. Weight I would estimate at 120lbs while carrying tools, water, notebook and a small snack plus a slightly thinner 190lbs rider compared to when I first bought the bike. The tailbag was stuffed full but zipped shut with no problem. It did become clear that I really need to put fenders on. I had a white water bottle in the cage up front and it was covered in gunk before the first 10 miles were up and that was all on a paved trail or road.

THE WEATHER
The weather was cool almost to the point of being unpleasant at speed. I had on long pants a t-shirt and a long sleeve jersy over that and kept it on for the entire first half of the trip and part of the second. That was in spite of pedaling a lot trying to get and stay warm. Was really enoying the spots of relatively warm air where the old rail line goes thru deep cuts of rock.
Departure was at oh dark early (aprox 07:05 from Florence Rd trail head) with 54 F degrees and 58% humidity Winds at 9 mph. Did I mention it was still dark out.
Mid point near Rockdale GA at around 9:30 with 55 F / 56% / 8 mph and sunny.
End at the house a bit after 11:00 with 72 F / 50% / 10mph and sunny.

THE DATA
My data includes a couple of extra miles each way because of riding from the house to the start point where I met Chris.
It shows we were slow on the way out and a more normal pace on the way back; at least compared to my commute. It also shows I worked a bit harder than I have on my rides to the office with a lower power usage on both parts of the trip compared to the commute and also a lower average speed.

Started at 40.0 volts and CA reset. Life Totals on the bike at start of ride are 74Amp Hours and 179 miles.

MIDPOINT READINGS (compared with first half of the commute)
39.8 Volts (after about a 30 minute rest)
23.89 Miles (commute is 21.89)
6.3 Amp hours (commute has been about 8+)
244.2 Watt hours (commute has been over 300)
10.2 Watt hours / mile (commute is around 17)
30.39 Amp's Max
38.0 Volts Minimum
25.3 mph Max Speed (commute hits around 34)
14.3 mph Average Speed (commute is closer to 18)
1 hour 40 min (commute is around 1 hr 10 min)

END READINGS - Total for ride
39.0 Volts - bounced back up to 39.5 after 12 + hours later
47.78 Miles (commute is 43)
14.46 Amp hours (commute is about 18.5)
558.4 Watt hours (commute is over 700)
11.7 Watt hours/mile (commute is about 17)
31.2 Amps Maximum (commute is around 32)
37.6 Volts Minimum
28.7 mph Max Speed (commute is over 36)
15.4 mph Average Speed (commute is close to 18)
3 hours 06 minutes riding time (commute is around 2 hours 24 minutes)

Bike Totals 88 Amp hours and 209 miles so far


OTHER THOUGHTS
Better front lighting is on order from Grin Tech as part of an order Chris made. The redneck chain tensioner has been re-rednecked for improved performance (will post picture later). Have to order fenders and install them. Cable for accessing the ASI BAC1000 controller programing should be here tomorrow if UPS is to be believed and shipping / customs from Canada is stupid expensive. Improving my visibilty to traffic is in progress (pic's later). Time to start thinking about keeping warm while riding and maybe even a helment. Maybe a bit of di-electric grease in the "weatherproof" molex connectors as a bit of corrosion insurance would be a good idea. Need to get one of the other bikes going so my wife can join the fun.
 
44.1m 18s lipo 66v13.69 ah 956wh 21.6wh/mi - 9.8 peak Regen. 74A peak 32 mph top speed. 15.7 Avg 2hr 48min. My ride data for comparison.
 
A few pictures showing some details of the bike
- rear dropouts measure 0.360 or almost 3/8ths of an inch thick
- connectors are deutsch ipd on swingarm
- and inside battery box
- improving my visibility to traffic with vest over seat and bright head cover
 

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