Forever running magnet motor?

Jan Christian said:
What the hell is this? Great fraud?
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Probably, if they are claiming something will continue forever without any external energy input, because all systems are lossy.

It might take a REALLY long time to notice, if losses are mnimal, but it will still slow down.

And if you attempt to make it do any work, without some external energy source, it'll stop even faster.


I can't see the videos (wifi bandwidth / problems) so I don't knwo what claims they areactually making, unless you care to psot them here.
 
From youtube description:
Turkish retired police officer he spend all his retirement money and in 2 years he was able to perfected this magnet powered motor. At the end of the video he takes the motor a part and shows all plastic parts filled with magnets. There are no hidden wires, no batteries attached. He is using propulsion power of the rear earth powerful magnets.

I see there are tons of these claims on youtube now but when someone duplicates them it does not work. Just search free energy magnet motor. It looks like fraud to me, but why waste peoples time.
 
why would they need to start it all the time again IF it REALLY takes energy out of nothing? it should turn FASTER and FASTER if nothing slows it down. so what is that propeller for? for show affect? or as load?
what STARTS the motor? do you need power to start it? if so (as this is what physic's laws say) then the wind flow created must be smaller then the power needed to start it. i don't know how much power a fan running at 2krpm for some hours needs. but this has to be (at least) the amount put into the machine during start.
 
Never bother to examine the details of anyone's information if they are presenting such a device as they are fundamentally impossible (violating the most basic laws of physics) and can safely be dismissed out of hand as a scam or a dream.
 
Punx0r said:
Never bother to examine the details of anyone's information if they are presenting such a device as they are fundamentally impossible (violating the most basic laws of physics) and can safely be dismissed out of hand as a scam or a dream.
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you are not right. who knows maybe it's magic unicorn horn dust??? or some tinker bell poo that makes it turn? you shouldn't call something nonsense before you considered all solutions!! :roll:
 
There are many things through time which is considered impossible but today is normal. For example the cold fusion devise from Rossi. Almost everybody thought it was a scam but now it may turn out to be real: http://www.extremetech.com/extreme/191754-cold-fusion-reactor-verified-by-third-party-researchers-seems-to-have-1-million-times-the-energy-density-of-gasoline
 
When I was a little kid playing with dad's crystal radio, he told me that a perpetual motion machine was a physical impossibility. He was an aircraft engineer who finished college interupted by a stint as a pilot during WWII. I still believe what he said, so it must be a hoax. :wink:
 
This is a portable system that generates electrical power via an accumulator that provides the initial motion for the system. Two batteries are used in this system and the system is kept working via the initial motion provided by these batteries. There is no need for another transformer. This device works using its own mechanism and there is no need for additional devices. In this way, a continuous electrical power generation is possible. This device can work without connecting it to a network so it is possible to use it at places where electricity does not exist. Moreover, when connected to the entry of a building, the need for a network is avoided. This system generates electrical power independent of a network.
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http://www.rexresearch.com/yildiz/yildiz.htm

Then right after the abstract he states that there are two accumulators. He's also getting ~12V @2.5a out of his device and his 'accumulator' just happens to be a nice fat 12V SLA.
He also mentions that his temp sensors are his hands...

I don't buy it...
 
hehe:) 12V Sealed Lead Acid Battery. Yes that was luck. I see at the bottom of the link you can donate money. So if he can get the scam going he can probably live of it.

But I like to dream. Imagine if it was true. You could almost travel for free around the world. Imagine the design perfected so you could get 15 kw from 15 kg. I would strap it to a wakeboard and ride around all day.

I wonder if he is paying electrical bills.
 
Jan Christian said:
There are many things through time which is considered impossible but today is normal. For example the cold fusion devise from Rossi. Almost everybody thought it was a scam but now it may turn out to be real: http://www.extremetech.com/extreme/191754-cold-fusion-reactor-verified-by-third-party-researchers-seems-to-have-1-million-times-the-energy-density-of-gasoline
Click to expand...

Don't be suckered. Anyone can get something published on the internet. It is also not hard to get verification of your experiment/phenomenon by a small number of seemingly qualified scientists (the technical nature of some people make them overly credulous). A phenomenon is only verified if it is repeatable by independent people. The more widely it is repeated, the more believable it is. Until then it is unproven and suspect.

I lack the knowledge of physics to declare it impossible on the grounds of violating known laws. However, anyone who's attended school can point out the obviously conflict between the idea of perpetual motion and basic physics.

Let's not forget that Uri Gellar's various powers were "proven" under "controlled" laboratory conditions, by well-educated scientists operating at an eminent university and with CIA funding. Their findings were published in prestigious journals. Unfortunately they were also incompetent and couldn't add up. Gellar's powers were lately revealed (by other scientists) to be simple trickery.

The point is that there will always be someone who was wrong about almost anything. To quote them is not any kind of proof of the failings of science. I recall a retort to the oft-spoken phrase "well, science doesn't know the answer to everything", of "that doesn't mean you can just fill in the gaps with any old nonsense you like".

Cold fusion in the linked web article? Extremely unlikely to be found to be anything other than deception or poor experimental design
Perpetual motion? Even less likely, since it's been actively disproven for donkey's years
 
Punx0r said:
Let's not forget that Uri Gellar's various powers were "proven" under "controlled" laboratory conditions, by well-educated scientists operating at an eminent university and with CIA funding. Their findings were published in prestigious journals. Unfortunately they were also incompetent and couldn't add up. Gellar's powers were lately revealed (by other scientists) to be simple trickery.
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Gellar was exposed by James Randi, live on the Johnny Carson show back in the 70's.
 
Well technically it wouldn't be endless, as well as it needs a physical force to get it started. The theory behind this machine is that the magnets are capable of spinning the shaft without outside energy. Technically, yes something like this is possible where you only have to start it once every so often than it uses that energy very sufficiently. magnet generators are very possible and simple to the idea. Wither or not this can be applied to power cars and transportation is unknown and unlikely. These machines have to follow the laws of physics meaning that even when they are almost friction-less there is still other outside forces that come into play. These generators can be a sufficient source of energy for homes, but not practical for a lot of force being applied ex: the weight of a car, ect. Nikola Teslas Coils and his wireless towers prove that we can have free energy by gathering it from around us. His last experiment before being shut down was building a tower that was harnessing the power of the air and lightning. If you've seen some engineers who have remade his motors you can see this concept. The basics of Teslas towers is that any flowing molecules in the area would generate power. Static friction in the air. He proved that you can send electrical currents wirelessly. Now if we were able to replicate these said towers into the clouds the same concept would apply as a lightning rod except it would transfer the energy. There are free floating molecules in the air, and it is possible to collect them as a source of power.
 
Tesla was a talented engineer and experimental physicist, but became increasingly deranged as he aged. It is a mistake to take something on faith simply because it has his name attached to it. Small amounts of electrical energy is harvestable from the atmosphere from known sources of electromagnetic radiation - it is no more free energy than solar or hooking up to your neighbour's electric meter.

r3volved said:
Gellar was exposed by James Randi, live on the Johnny Carson show back in the 70's.
Click to expand...

My knowledge of the subject comes from the 1980 book "The Psychology of the Psychic" by David Marks. He mentions Randi several times, and IIRC was advised by him how to detect Gellar's tricks during experimental testing. I didn't realise Randi had already outed Gellar on TV... Marks did apply correct statistical analysis to debunk the earlier experiments "proving" Gellar's claimed abilities using the original experiment data.
 
Geller keeps coming back.
For a while he was peddling shopping channel crap. Now he considers himself an illusionist or something along those lines (... just ambiguous enough to not specifically say 'magic powers'). It could have been the 80's though...I was just a wee lad then and never saw Carson.

James randi is one of my skeptic influences.

But it is true that Gellar fooled many a scientist...took a magician to take him down :)
 
Punx0r said:
Tesla was a talented engineer and experimental physicist, but became increasingly deranged as he aged.
Click to expand...


He was believed to be deranged when he suggested AC (by the existing foundation of "sciences"). He was believed to be deranged when he suggested 3p brushless motors. He was believed to be deranged when he developed air-core coupled transformers. He was believed to be deranged when he transmitted RF. He was believed to be deranged when he demonstrated his radio-controlled boats before "radio-control" was a thing. He was believed to be deranged when he said he would subject himself to millions of volts with lethal current levels at a frequency that wouldn't hurt him. He was believed to be deranged when he suggested he could using RF to penetrate the atmosphere and summon lightning. He was believed to be deranged when he made the first extra-planetary radio-telescope and was able to listen to the RF noise from other stars.

Essentially, through Tesla's life, he was a few decades ahead of what the "scientific community" had awareness of, and hence was called a crackpot for everything he suggested that transcended the current "conventional delusion of science".
 
Having just done a little reading from the top of Google, I'm reassured that Tesla was an extremely intelligent man and a sound inventor. However, just to list a few examples of misattributed inventions and subjects on which his theories were incorrect:

* Tesla did not invent polyphase AC power, nor the 3-phase motor. He persisted with 2-phase despite others having already demonstrated the advantages of 3-phase
* He did not invent the transformer
* He believed high-frequency RF would penetrate water and detect submarines. High-frequencies cannot penetrate water
* Niagra falls was not the first commercial AC hydroelectric plant
* His proposals for free wireless electric power distribution were nonsense
* He believed the waves from his RF transmitter travelled at nearly twice the speed of light
* He believed he had received radio communications from intelligent beings on other planets
* His mechanical oscillator, which he claimed could destroy buildings was nonsense. He was quoted as claiming it could be use to literally crack the Earth in two
* He claimed exposure to RF would make students more intelligent
* Let's not even consider the merit of his "Death Ray", which he claimed he had built
* He believed squishing his toes 100 times each night stimulated his brain cells
* He rejected the idea of subatomic particles and that there was no such thing as electrons and they had nothing to do with electricity
* He believed in the Ether as the means of transmitting electrical energy
* He disagreed that matter could be converted to energy
* He rejected Einstein's Theory of Relativity, stating that space had no properties and could not be curved
* He claimed to have developed a complete theory of gravity when he had done no such thing
* He fervently believed that the principles of eugenics should be forced on the population


The myth is always greater than the man. Memory is selective and biased. Stories become greater with the telling.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nikola_Tesla
http://www.edisontechcenter.org/tesladebunked.html
http://www.teslauniverse.com/nikola-tesla-patents-787,412-transmitting-electrical-energy
 
What is this? Is that supposed to be a lesson in misinformation?

All your claims come straight from a single source (edisontechcenter.org which just happens to be about Tesla's competition in the current wars) with no supporting evidence outside of this site.

If you were reading your sources, you'd have noticed that the wiki provides evidence contrary to your claims. One patent out of 110 does not provide evidence for either the success or failure of wireless power transmission.
 
Magnets have stored energy in them. That is, the electrical energy used during formation to orient the molecules in a polar orientation. This Yidniz motor is simply harvesting that stored energy, which can be considerable in modern rare earth magnets. However, if you constantly put the magnetic fields of the magnets in opposition to each other, it will slowly disrupt the polar orientation of the molecules and it will eventually run down. If such a machine could exist it would disprove the laws of thermodynamics that have served us so well in understanding how the universe works.

I have some little neodymium magnets at my desk. So I am doing an experiment right now to tape two of them together in opposition to each other. It was hard to hold them still to tape them because they repel each other pretty strongly. I'll leave it sit overnight like that and see if the repelling force is diminished in the morning. If so, it will be pretty good evidence that this motor is yet another hoax.
 
Be consistent: I quoted from three sources ;)

Yes, one source is dedicated to Edison, another to Tesla. I'm no more interested in reading an Edison-fanboi article than a Tesla one. The article on the Edison is critical of Tesla but did not actively promote Edison over him. Much more importantly, it cites dates and the names of the inventors and Patent in support of its arguments and as such are verifiable.

If I contracted myself please tell me where. I wrote the list in a hurry and will gladly admit to any error. I just hope you're not expecting me to cite sources to support the theories of the divisibility of atoms, general relativity, conversion of matter to energy, the speed of light, or to disprove those of the Ether or the relationship between foot exercises and neural growth :D

Everyone is wrong sometimes. The best are just wrong less often.

For what it's worth, I think Tesla was less of a crackpot than Freud.
 
Punx0r said:
Having just done a little reading from the top of Google, I'm reassured that Tesla was an extremely intelligent man and a sound inventor. However, just to list a few examples of misattributed inventions and subjects on which his theories were incorrect:

* Tesla did not invent polyphase AC power, nor the 3-phase motor. He persisted with 2-phase despite others having already demonstrated the advantages of 3-phase
* He did not invent the transformer
* He believed high-frequency RF would penetrate water and detect submarines. High-frequencies cannot penetrate water
* Niagra falls was not the first commercial AC hydroelectric plant
* His proposals for free wireless electric power distribution were nonsense
* He believed the waves from his RF transmitter travelled at nearly twice the speed of light
* He believed he had received radio communications from intelligent beings on other planets
* His mechanical oscillator, which he claimed could destroy buildings was nonsense. He was quoted as claiming it could be use to literally crack the Earth in two
* He claimed exposure to RF would make students more intelligent
* Let's not even consider the merit of his "Death Ray", which he claimed he had built
* He believed squishing his toes 100 times each night stimulated his brain cells
* He rejected the idea of subatomic particles and that there was no such thing as electrons and they had nothing to do with electricity
* He believed in the Ether as the means of transmitting electrical energy
* He disagreed that matter could be converted to energy
* He rejected Einstein's Theory of Relativity, stating that space had no properties and could not be curved
* He claimed to have developed a complete theory of gravity when he had done no such thing
* He fervently believed that the principles of eugenics should be forced on the population


The myth is always greater than the man. Memory is selective and biased. Stories become greater with the telling.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nikola_Tesla
http://www.edisontechcenter.org/tesladebunked.html
http://www.teslauniverse.com/nikola-tesla-patents-787,412-transmitting-electrical-energy
Click to expand...


As a guy who has read a dozen or so books on Tesla's life, including all his own autobiography writings, I can tell you Edison has been hiring teams of PR folks to create anti-Tesla smear campaigns since the day Tesla walked out on Edison after he delivered exactly the re-designed motor with the performance improvements he claimed he could give, and Edison told him to go suck eggs rather than pay him the $50k or whatever he had promised. Also, if you read his autobiography, the submarine detection was through magnetometer based detection, but as magnetometers weren't a thing people knew about yet, and with Edison paying people to launch a string of anti-Telsa slanderous newpaper articles written by folks who knew nothing.

http://listverse.com/2012/06/07/10-ways-edison-treated-tesla-like-a-jerk/
 
However, we will never know what things really were like, and there is no way to know.

History is written by whomever is left to write it, and it's always someone's spun BS. Just look at the american and world history taught in the public-indoctrination system. (schools)
 
Jimw, I'm not sure it's even doing something as clever as extracting the energy stored in the field of a permanent magnet, which seems like a hard thing to do. Your point did prompt me to do a little casual reading though and it seems energy storage in super-conducting electromagnetics is a real commercial practice. Apparently the magnets for the Large Hadron Collider store ~800kWh :D
 
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