How Leili stole and lied to me (most known frame company)

R

rg12

100 kW
Joined
Jul 26, 2014
Messages
1,591
Hey Guys,

Wanted to share my horrible story with you guys so you would never get screwed like me.

So, I have been working as a business with Leili Vehicle Parts importing the frames they make and also motors and other stuff (they are the manufacturers of the most common Chinese enduro frame out there, just google "Leili frame").

In the last order I made I have ordered extra frame covers set (it's the sides+top and bottom plastics of the frame) and told them to ship it to a company I started working with that does hydrodip graphics in China.
The frames came back to Leili with the graphics looking amazing (received photos from the hydrographics service).
So far so good.
Then, the representative that is the one who I am in contact all the time named Jelly suddenly went from replying to me within a few hours to not replying for a few days.
I told Jelly that I need some forms in order to have my forwarder pickup the goods asap but no reply.
Then when Jelly replied she said that one of the frame plastic covers set that came back from the hydrographics service broke (there was one that looked exceptionally amazing and of course it was that one).
Then I asked how did it happen? but she dodged the question about 3 times and kept talking about other things.
Then I got super pissed and told her to answer my question and then she said that they opened my package because they wanted to see how it came out (my personal stuff that was already paid for and came back from a place that packed it well) and one engineer left it on the table and a metal shelf fell on it.
Then I was like, this is bs, a set consists of 4 big plastic parts, did all of it break?
Then dodging again, so I asked her to send a photo of the part that broke and to put everything in my box and I will use it for a photoshoot from the other side.
Then she replied that everything is in the trash.
Well, I'm the last guy to believe this total China bs, so I went all out on her and then her boss Kevin sent me an email.
That Kevin guy amazingly admitted that they took the covers because they liked them and used it in an exhibition of theirs and that they will send me a new black set instead.
The nerve of those a** holes!!
Bottom line, these low life Chinese scumbags lied to me, stole from me and probably will do what they do best at duplicating my ideas and making me profit less from my originality.
This Kevin guy and the poor little Jelly girl received an email that I'm not sure google translate knows how to translate to Chinese from the cursing overload (like trying to censor a rap song).
They can be sure that the next time I come to China I'm dropping by to pay an unpleasant visit to those shallow mofos.
 
Do you have a photo of the result? I am curious to see how it came out.

Finally from what I've heard from other stories it's difficult to trust 100% Chinese companies.
 
icherouveim said:
Do you have a photo of the result? I am curious to see how it came out.

Finally from what I've heard from other stories it's difficult to trust 100% Chinese companies.
Click to expand...
 
aha it looks cool! I think there are shops in every country that can print this for you and to stick it on the side panels. Isn't it possible?
 
icherouveim said:
aha it looks cool! I think there are shops in every country that can print this for you and to stick it on the side panels. Isn't it possible?
Click to expand...

It's not the problem, I already have a service for it, the point is that they that something nasty and I'm not going to let it go.
 
What is it that makes you feel entitled to your pick of whatever this manufacturer comes up with?

I work for a manufacturer, and we've sold prototypes and demo units and other stuff that probably should have remained in house, but all the same, it was our choice to do it. If we had chosen instead to keep some first article for ourselves, well, it is ours to keep. We made it. It's not great business to tell a customer to wait, but it is the maker's prerogative.

You can always make your own if you don't like that. Or you can get an agreement in writing.
 
I don't think that's what happened. It seems Leili sold standard covers, delivered to a third party who did the paint spec'ed by RG then they were delivered back to Leili simply to forward them to RG (presumably as part of a larger shipment of other stuff direct from Leili).

The whole thing is unscrupulous, but unfortunately not unusual by the standards of China.
 
Punx0r said:
I don't think that's what happened. It seems Leili sold standard covers, delivered to a third party who did the paint spec'ed by RG then they were delivered back to Leili simply to forward them to RG (presumably as part of a larger shipment of other stuff direct from Leili).

The whole thing is unscrupulous, but unfortunately not unusual by the standards of China.
Click to expand...

Yes, that is correct, Leili didn't do the graphics, I don't mind them touching merch that was bought from them, but they took something that came back from a hydrographics business in China and opened the box out of curiosity, liked what they saw and took it to an exhibition of theirs while lying to me that a metal shelf fell on it and everything is now in the trash.
 
rg12 said:
Hey Guys,

Wanted to share my horrible story with you guys so you would never get screwed like me.

So, I have been working as a business with Leili Vehicle Parts importing the frames they make and also motors and other stuff (they are the manufacturers of the most common Chinese enduro frame out there, just google "Leili frame").

In the last order I made I have ordered extra frame covers set (it's the sides+top and bottom plastics of the frame) and told them to ship it to a company I started working with that does hydrodip graphics in China.
The frames came back to Leili with the graphics looking amazing (received photos from the hydrographics service).
So far so good.
Then, the representative that is the one who I am in contact all the time named Jelly suddenly went from replying to me within a few hours to not replying for a few days.
I told Jelly that I need some forms in order to have my forwarder pickup the goods asap but no reply.
Then when Jelly replied she said that one of the frame plastic covers set that came back from the hydrographics service broke (there was one that looked exceptionally amazing and of course it was that one).
Then I asked how did it happen? but she dodged the question about 3 times and kept talking about other things.
Then I got super pissed and told her to answer my question and then she said that they opened my package because they wanted to see how it came out (my personal stuff that was already paid for and came back from a place that packed it well) and one engineer left it on the table and a metal shelf fell on it.
Then I was like, this is bs, a set consists of 4 big plastic parts, did all of it break?
Then dodging again, so I asked her to send a photo of the part that broke and to put everything in my box and I will use it for a photoshoot from the other side.
Then she replied that everything is in the trash.
Well, I'm the last guy to believe this total China bs, so I went all out on her and then her boss Kevin sent me an email.
That Kevin guy amazingly admitted that they took the covers because they liked them and used it in an exhibition of theirs and that they will send me a new black set instead.
The nerve of those a** holes!!
Bottom line, these low life Chinese scumbags lied to me, stole from me and probably will do what they do best at duplicating my ideas and making me profit less from my originality.
This Kevin guy and the poor little Jelly girl received an email that I'm not sure google translate knows how to translate to Chinese from the cursing overload (like trying to censor a rap song).
They can be sure that the next time I come to China I'm dropping by to pay an unpleasant visit to those shallow mofos.
Click to expand...

China is the one of the worse countries when it comes to stealing creative works and intellectual property. Hence why in many IT industries, China(as well as india) companies are not trusted with anything besides basic program development.
 
Honestly it sounds to me that if they were really out to "steal" your IP, there would be much easier and insidious ways to get it done. For one the manager wouldn't have admitted taking your work to their exhibit. It sounds to me more like a low to mid-level employee doing his/her own thing and mucked things up.

I'd imagine an IP thief would've politely said "xiexie" and return your stuff and kept maybe the computer file or something.

As an aside, IP is really an "evolving cultural concept" in certain parts of the world. Being from PRC of the chopstick-wielding / rice chomping stock myself, I did not bat an eye way back when I photocopied nearly all my text books ... in college. I only started buying "real text books" in their eye-watering price when I entered professional school.

Anyway, blasting them here only gives you psychological comfort (and that helps!) But to get your proper compensation, know this: these days even PRC is trying to at least "appear" respectful of IP. Call up some local offices that oversee the factories. If the factory is as big an "OEM" producer as you say it is, then chances are it is located in the Yantze Delta or Pearl Delta. There are "supervising bodies" in these places so that your rights are not entirely trampled upon without recourse.

Just my 2 cents.
 
axca said:
Honestly it sounds to me that if they were really out to "steal" your IP, there would be much easier and insidious ways to get it done. For one the manager wouldn't have admitted taking your work to their exhibit. It sounds to me more like a low to mid-level employee doing his/her own thing and mucked things up.

I'd imagine an IP thief would've politely said "xiexie" and return your stuff and kept maybe the computer file or something.

As an aside, IP is really an "evolving cultural concept" in certain parts of the world. Being from PRC of the chopstick-wielding / rice chomping stock myself, I did not bat an eye way back when I photocopied nearly all my text books ... in college. I only started buying "real text books" in their eye-watering price when I entered professional school.

Anyway, blasting them here only gives you psychological comfort (and that helps!) But to get your proper compensation, know this: these days even PRC is trying to at least "appear" respectful of IP. Call up some local offices that oversee the factories. If the factory is as big an "OEM" producer as you say it is, then chances are it is located in the Yantze Delta or Pearl Delta. There are "supervising bodies" in these places so that your rights are not entirely trampled upon without recourse.

Just my 2 cents.
Click to expand...

Thanks alot but my idea is not some registered patent, I didn't invent anything.
About the fact that they took the thing to an exhibition shows how much they don't give a damn and do whatever they want like the wild west and don't even afraid of admitting it.
Only the weirdo Chinese mindstate tells them it's normal to admit that.
It's the same logic as having some company representative of half the companies in China telling me all about her private life after about two messages...
One even told me that she was a virgin and stuff...yeah, they go deep ;)
 
rg12 said:
About the fact that they took the thing to an exhibition shows how much they don't give a damn and do whatever they want like the wild west and don't even afraid of admitting it.

...

One even told me that she was a virgin and stuff...yeah, they go deep ;)
Click to expand...

You know I haven't been back to the old country for 15+ years and I totally get that from your point of view. It is downright disrespectful. The way you perceived it was like in the cartoon my daughter was watching the other day where the character said "we don't care enough about you to even lie to you" ...

But in this day and age, if it is as egregious as you stated and it is black-and-white in e-print, then I'd hope you have some recourse. Even the old Mafia is trying to look like legit business, at least to some these day.

As to the Missy, she is lonely and needs help, and clearly thinks you can help, and won't you help? :roll: China is not Kansas these days, and the average jet-setting "Laowei" is surely no Dorothy.


P.S., I see two utterly outlaw countries in this day and age who genuinely seem not give a d@mn when push comes to shove:

One is this so-called "Perky-eared Rabbit County", a.k.a. PRC.

There other, viewed from Canada, truly one of the best countries in the world if not the best and nicest (save the weather), guess is who? That one is a digression. I don't even bother reading Globe And Mail any more. It's much less depressing coming here.
 
I read your full story, because i was only interested in the name Leili and what they did.

I have a few questions for you. You say you import their frames and they are in China.
You import their frames TO where, USA? Canada? UK?
The reason I ask is because couldn't you have bypassed Leili completely?
You said you have or you sent your panels off to get dipped or made, also in China.

Atleast now you know Leili's true intentions. I hope your idea is not copied to the masses, but that's doubtful.

rg12 said:
China I'm dropping by to pay an unpleasant visit to those shallow mofos.
Click to expand...
 
rg12 said:
Yes, that is correct, Leili didn't do the graphics, I don't mind them touching merch that was bought from them, but they took something that came back from a hydrographics business in China and opened the box out of curiosity, liked what they saw and took it to an exhibition of theirs while lying to me that a metal shelf fell on it and everything is now in the trash.
Click to expand...

Bypass Leili for now on when it comes to outside work being done and deal with the shipping cost the best way you can.

Thing is if you want to still buy frames from Leili, you may have to look the other way otherwise the business relationship between you two will strain.



About the fact that they took the thing to an exhibition shows how much they don't give a damn and do whatever they want like the wild west and don't even afraid of admitting it.
Only the weirdo Chinese mindstate tells them it's normal to admit that.
It's the same logic as having some company representative of half the companies in China telling me all about her private life after about two messages...
One even told me that she was a virgin and stuff...yeah, they go deep
Click to expand...

wild west - yes but this is not news. China hacks NASA, JPL, Boeing who ever they can get into, on government approval. The smaller fish (like the Balkhash perch aka Perca schrenkii in Lake Balkhash and Alakol) will do whatever it takes to make money, stealing from anyone to make a Renminbi (RMB) which is their currency.

I laughed at that comment. A few things come to mind TBH, she wanted a free ride to a first world nation. The dream of 99% of the worlds population in non-first-world countries. On a side note for that topic, I know of a handful of people who wanted an easy bride. The first was early 2000's where a co-worker traveled to Russia in hopes of obtaining a bride, I dont recall how fruitful his efforts were. Recently I know of two people, one now works in an asian country and married a 20-30yr old while he is in his 50's or 60's. He is doing what he loves, so I dont know if its the cost of living the reason he moved. Second one also married an asian, he is a long haul truck driver, but a decent looking however short man. Not sure how he got that one, he seems happy.
 
No longer working with Leili.
The frame covers were sent back to them because I send all of my merch there for one sea shippment (about 8 different suppliers in total) and I sent it to them because I buy the physically heavier stuff from them so it makes more sense rather than have hundreds of killograms of products sent to a supplier who I buy only battery cells from that come in a few little boxes.

about the private conversations, yeah it's sad (not related to Leili), they are treated like machines, they work 24/7 for no money and they have an old minded mentality of getting married to have sex, have a kid and hate their life.
Either you be the boss or a slave (saying that from what I've learned from private conversations with them)
Once this little asian girl (well, they are all little) in a battery business offered a price that was not too competitive so I passed the deal and then she said "well, we don't have to talk only about business, we can be friends..."
Then another one sent me out of nowhere photos of her drawings...
Weirdo town...
 
rg12 said:
........so I passed the deal and then she said "well, we don't have to talk only about business, we can be friends..."
Then another one sent me out of nowhere photos of her drawings...
Weirdo town...
Click to expand...
Hey, on the bright side, you can pay a lot of money for that kind of phone chat .. ! :lol:
...but,..also be aware of the "honey trap" ploy for business blackmail.......it happens !
 
Hillhater said:
rg12 said:
........so I passed the deal and then she said "well, we don't have to talk only about business, we can be friends..."
Then another one sent me out of nowhere photos of her drawings...
Weirdo town...
Click to expand...
Hey, on the bright side, you can pay a lot of money for that kind of phone chat .. ! :lol:
...but,..also be aware of the "honey trap" ploy for business blackmail.......it happens !
Click to expand...

Haha, they are the ones sharing too much, I'm not going to go "oh yes, I too am a lonely virgin"
 
So after all the above conversation what is the conclusion? Are they good or bad people? Can endless sphere users trust them for business or not?
Was is it just a bad incident that happens once every 100 years?
 
Hey, so what about finding a reputable company to bypass Leili, perhaps a 3rd party to triage all your products until your ready to load the stuff into the sea can.
 
Kraynasher said:
Well, at least you're not apart of that toxic company anymore.
Click to expand...

He, like me, is part of a toxic nation, and should not trust others from elsewhere to be acting without malice towards him. It's our birthright to be mistrusted for good reasons. Just sayin'.
 
It doesn't matter if they do this once in a while or all the time, it's enough that a company behaves like that once and I'm done with them.
I already have a new place to go to which I already know and they even gave me better prices (much better) so screw Leili.
 
rg12 said:
axca said:
Honestly it sounds to me that if they were really out to "steal" your IP, there would be much easier and insidious ways to get it done. For one the manager wouldn't have admitted taking your work to their exhibit. It sounds to me more like a low to mid-level employee doing his/her own thing and mucked things up.

I'd imagine an IP thief would've politely said "xiexie" and return your stuff and kept maybe the computer file or something.

As an aside, IP is really an "evolving cultural concept" in certain parts of the world. Being from PRC of the chopstick-wielding / rice chomping stock myself, I did not bat an eye way back when I photocopied nearly all my text books ... in college. I only started buying "real text books" in their eye-watering price when I entered professional school.

Anyway, blasting them here only gives you psychological comfort (and that helps!) But to get your proper compensation, know this: these days even PRC is trying to at least "appear" respectful of IP. Call up some local offices that oversee the factories. If the factory is as big an "OEM" producer as you say it is, then chances are it is located in the Yantze Delta or Pearl Delta. There are "supervising bodies" in these places so that your rights are not entirely trampled upon without recourse.

Just my 2 cents.
Click to expand...

Thanks alot but my idea is not some registered patent, I didn't invent anything.
About the fact that they took the thing to an exhibition shows how much they don't give a damn and do whatever they want like the wild west and don't even afraid of admitting it.
Only the weirdo Chinese mindstate tells them it's normal to admit that.
...
Click to expand...

I actually thought it was encouraging that a manager would fess up to it and wondered as well if it was something an individual employee did. Sometimes people who work for you, do stupid things. Did they ultimately get your part back to you or offer to compensate you in some way?
 
Garen said:
rg12 said:
axca said:
Honestly it sounds to me that if they were really out to "steal" your IP, there would be much easier and insidious ways to get it done. For one the manager wouldn't have admitted taking your work to their exhibit. It sounds to me more like a low to mid-level employee doing his/her own thing and mucked things up.

I'd imagine an IP thief would've politely said "xiexie" and return your stuff and kept maybe the computer file or something.

As an aside, IP is really an "evolving cultural concept" in certain parts of the world. Being from PRC of the chopstick-wielding / rice chomping stock myself, I did not bat an eye way back when I photocopied nearly all my text books ... in college. I only started buying "real text books" in their eye-watering price when I entered professional school.

Anyway, blasting them here only gives you psychological comfort (and that helps!) But to get your proper compensation, know this: these days even PRC is trying to at least "appear" respectful of IP. Call up some local offices that oversee the factories. If the factory is as big an "OEM" producer as you say it is, then chances are it is located in the Yantze Delta or Pearl Delta. There are "supervising bodies" in these places so that your rights are not entirely trampled upon without recourse.

Just my 2 cents.
Click to expand...

Thanks alot but my idea is not some registered patent, I didn't invent anything.
About the fact that they took the thing to an exhibition shows how much they don't give a damn and do whatever they want like the wild west and don't even afraid of admitting it.
Only the weirdo Chinese mindstate tells them it's normal to admit that.
...
Click to expand...

I actually thought it was encouraging that a manager would fess up to it and wondered as well if it was something an individual employee did. Sometimes people who work for you, do stupid things. Did they ultimately get your part back to you or offer to compensate you in some way?
Click to expand...

They said that they will send a black set to the hydrographics service and ship it by air (was my request) and they agreed and then stopped replying to all my messages.
 
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