Trouble shoot me!

you have a dmm, whats the battery voltage

39.4 v, though I don't know what dnm stands for.

Stu Summer said:

39.4 v, though I don't know what dnm stands for.

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digital multimeter.


Did you try plugging the "potentiometer" in again after messing with the wire connections? If you determined that is wasn't the pot, then you should proceed one step at a time. Why did you think it was the issue originally; were there symptoms you observed?

It seemed like when you wiggled it sometimes it worked again. But never consistently.

I don't know if the system uses the speed sensor on the wheel or the crank movement sensor to turn on assist. Does anyone?

Can you post of picture of this "potentiometer" ? If it really is a pot and not a type of throttle, then a regular hall sensor based throttle may not be a good replacement.

id put the multi meter probes in the controller/battery connector, turn on bike, watch the voltage on the multi meter, turn throttle and see if voltage goes to zero

Stu Summer said:

Could anyone help me stepwise trouble shoot this?

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Yes, but you will need to answer the questions below in detail to give enough information to start the process.

Without knowing much about how the bike is actually setup to work, the best recommendation I would have is to verify all of the wires and connectors everywhere on the bike are actually fully connected and able to pass signals.

The most common problem is corrosion within connectors, which can sometimes be removed by unplugging and replugging them all several times, being careful to only pull on the connector shells, and never on the wires.

The next most common is loose contacts in the plugs, where when you plug them in the contacts back out and just barely touch or don't touch at all.

Then there are broken wires, either inside the cabling, or right at the back of the connectors or at the exit from any housing or box or controller, etc., where flexing tends to stress the wires.

The next most common is damage to the axle wiring right at the axle exit. You may not be able to see this if it is pinched inside the cable housing, but there is testing that may reveal it if necessary.

Cycle Analyst V2,

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V2, or v3? It will give you the exact version when you turn it on. What does that screen say?
(with no answer, it is safest to assume it is a v3.x and is setup for cadence PAS and no throttle, with the knob being on the aux input controlling speed limit or current limit)

a crank sensor

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Which specific type? Is it one of those rings on the pedal crankshaft that just monitors cadence (how fast you pedal)? Or is it one of those inside the frame that replaces the pedal crankshaft and monitors torque and cadence?
Does this connect to the CA, or to the controller?
Which specific connector does it plug into?
(with no answer, it's safest to assume it plugs into the CA's PAS input connector, and that it is just a cadence sensor)

speed sensor

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Is this on one of the wheels? Just the little stick-type with a magnet on a spoke?
Does this connect to the CA, or to the controller?
Which specific connector does it plug into?
(with no answer, it's safest to assume it is wired directly to teh back of the CA and is the wheelmounted stick with spoke magnet)

and potentiometer (I think that is what its called. A knob at the handle bar determining how much assistance is available.

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Does this connect to the CA, or to the controller?
Which specific connector does it plug into?
(with no answer, it is safest to assume it is connected to the CA's aux input and setup in the menus to control speed limit or current limit)

It started to work intermittently.

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What specifically does this mean? Did it work on some days but not others? Or did it work under some conditions but not others? Or did it work unpredictably for unpredictable amounts of time? Or something completely different?

Do you have any information about whether it was crashed or fell over or experienced any particular thing or when the problem actually started? Any information could lead to the source of the problem (though it might not).

I thought it was the potentiometer. So I bought a throttle with the same 3 pin JST connector.

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First, disconnect that, and put the potentiometer back. They don't do the same things (or generally work the same way, if it's a hall based throttle which is the most common kind) and wouldn't connect to the same place, unless this is a much different setup than any I've seen before. The assist level pot (if it is one, and not a rotary switch for presets) is most likely connected to the aux-in of the CA and is most likely setup to change either the speed limit or the current limit, but could be any number of other things.

FWIW, just because it has the same connector doesn't mean it's wired the same, so unless you've already verified that the throttle is outputting the correct changing voltage range on it's signal wire when connected to that same JST as the knob, it could even be that it is connected so that it cant' output anything and cant' control the amount of assist, and may be locking out all assist just by being plugged in).


Once we have figured out how the bike is wired and setup to operate, we can start working out which parts are working and which are not.

thanks guys and especially Amberwolf. I will work on this tomorrow.

I would suggest some in-depth discussion with your friend on just exactly what he did to eff up your ebike.

Amberwolf, thanks for the detailed questions. I will try to answer them. I wiggled and checked all of the original connections (took the throttle addition out of the picture). This set up has a pedal/motion detector on the crank that goes directly to the controller. It is one of those rings that slips on the outside of the crank and has a detector mounted at the bottom of the seat tube. I sanded off the metal contacts a bit but they seemed fine. The potentiometer also goes straight to the controller. I picture is below. The CycleAnalyst is connected straight to the controller with the speed detector on the wheel going straight to the CA. The CA is version 2.23.



The system is set up so that one has to be pedaling and moving (wheel spinning) in order for the assist to come on. This curious thing happens: Nearly every time I switch on the power (CA lights up, red led shines on controller) and then pedal and spin the wheel, the motor clicks on for maybe 1/10th of a second. It is almost every time. This is with no deliberate wiggling any wires or connectors. It seems like an important clue.

Thanks again for your guidance!

Update: The EZEE controller LED is flashing 4 times, then stopping, then 4 times.....

Stu Summer said:

The system is set up so that one has to be pedaling and moving (wheel spinning) in order for the assist to come on. This curious thing happens: Nearly every time I switch on the power (CA lights up, red led shines on controller) and then pedal and spin the wheel, the motor clicks on for maybe 1/10th of a second. It is almost every time. This is with no deliberate wiggling any wires or connectors. It seems like an important clue.

Thanks again for your guidance!

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Can you unplug the Cycle Analyst DP plug from the controller, and then try it?

E-hp, I unplugged the CA and tried it. It did the same exact thing: a 1/10 second surge and then nothing, with the controller still flashing those 4 LED flashes.

Stu Summer said:

E-hp, I unplugged the CA and tried it. It did the same exact thing: a 1/10 second surge and then nothing, with the controller still flashing those 4 LED flashes.

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Makes sense. Reading the manual, seems like the Cycle Analyst V2.23 shouldn't be a factor, unless it had a short, or was limiting throttle output. Since unplugging it made no difference, then neither is the case, so it's narrowed to a controller or motor problem.

I would check the resistance on the potentiometer leads, and move the knob to see if it works as expected. Potentiometers can get dirty, causing intermittent contact, so you may need to replace it with a similar unit (the outer two leads should tell you the resistance of the pot). Given that it ran before, and became intermittent, I wouldn't change any of the wiring, but just check that nothing is loose.

So I bought a new potentiometer from Grin but it's not the problem. The system does exactly the same thing: a very brief pulse of power to the wheel and then nothing. What could cause this tiny pulse and then cut-off?

Thanks!

Stu Summer said:

Update: The EZEE controller LED is flashing 4 times, then stopping, then 4 times.....

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This would seem like a good direction to pursue.

From what I've read, it would seem to indicate that your throttle input is greater than 1vdc on start-up. But perhaps more information on your exact controller as in make an model, picture ETC.

See...
https://www.ebikes.ca/documents/eZee_Controller_Guide.pdf and
https://www.pedelecs.co.uk/forum/threads/ezee-liv-led-error-codes.1877/

The problem is technically you say you have no throttle... but an assist control? And a potentiometer to boot. :?

I'd do all troubleshooting with the CA removed from the system.

Does the error code go away with the pot removed? Or change to another code?

Can you give the voltage readings that come out of the controller to it? (with the pot removed)
Write down using test points 1,2, and 3. with multiple testing between the different points. And then each test point to batt ground. (6 results total, controller powered up)

Have you correctly identified the pot's wiper as well as it's resistance end connections to correctly wire it to the controller.
Verified with old pot, or get a wiring diagram included with the pot?

With the pot connected and powered. What voltage do you have between the wiper, (signal output) and batt ground?

I have seen this slight power surge on start if the throttle input is not what the controller is expecting, and trips a safety.
(which is a good thing...)


Regards,
T.C.

But perhaps more information on your exact controller as in make an model, picture ETC.

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The LED flashes means there's an error being communicated by the controller


According to the grin sheet for EZEE controller the original throttle was hall sensor based and now there's an error that the throttle signal at startup is too high, above 1V.

Could be:
- The throttle wiring is wrong, feeding full 5V to signal in throttle connector
- There's a short circuit somewhere in the throttle signal line
- You bought a potentiometer throttle instead of a hall based throttle and because of this the wiring is wrong and this causes the voltage signal to be too high. Since you bought it from grin i'd think this is not so likely.

Do the throttle wire colors match on the male and female connector?

Now, with the CA connected, I get 8 flashes, which according to your chart indicates a phase wire issue. With the CA disconnected I get 3 flashes and then 5 flashes, then 3 then 5..... indicating according to the chart a hall wire issue. I guess that means I need to open up the motor????

More advice is welcome. I have to learn how to test resistance and the other things mentioned.

Actually, it is the other way around.

Stu Summer said:

Now, with the CA connected, I get 8 flashes, which according to your chart indicates a phase wire issue. With the CA disconnected I get 3 flashes and then 5 flashes, then 3 then 5..... indicating according to the chart a hall wire issue. I guess that means I need to open up the motor????

More advice is welcome. I have to learn how to test resistance and the other things mentioned.

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First, provide a link to the part you purchased from Grin. Since it seems like your controller doesn't use a throttle in the normal sense, but a potentiometer to control the PAS assist level (pedelec), then it seems like an older system. Did you call or email Grin to tell them the problem, and they determined that was the correct part? I'm asking since it doesn't seem to be one of the systems Grin still carries. If you purchased the pot that Grin currently sells for the CA, then it may be wired differently than the what you controller needs.
From your original post, and your last, it looks like the same issue with bad continuity between your controller and motor. Did your friend crash the bike or anything that could have damaged the cable going into the motor? How did you fix the loose connections that you mentioned. I'd first use your DMM to test the old pot. If the old one still works, plug that one back in and troubleshoot from there. Recheck the wiring from the controller to motor again.

First, it would be helpful if you could actually read the chart.

You do NOT repeat NOT get 8, you get 3, then 5, which is a code actually listed in black and white and says something COMPLETELY DIFFERENT from what you think it is.

Also, just exactly WT actual F does "actually, it is the other way around" refer to?

Is English your primary language?

Finding out what your friend did to screw up your bike would save a lot of time and effort, unfortunately not yours but others trying to help you, so you likely will make no effort whatsoever to determine the source of the problem.

The CA is not necessary to solve the problem or run the bike. So remove it. Do this carefully, connect and reconnect several times while checking error codes each time. The blink code from the controller should not be affected, UNLESS you are bumping or tugging other loose connections, which if you could find out how bad your idiot friend crashed on your bike would be useful.