Surron throttle not usable for slow speed

TS81

1 mW
Joined
Jul 27, 2021
Messages
17
Hi,

I purchased my surron a few days ago. The 2021 street legal model. I life in germany. It's limited to 45km/h. It has the X-Controller.
Overall the bike is good. I expected a bit more range from the battery. But anyway.
But a real big problem is the throttle. It's ok for idle and full throttle. But anything in between is very very fiddly. In germany we have a lot of zones where only 30km/h is allowed. It is nearly impossible with this bike. Any bump on the road naturally results in some small movement on the throtthle (maybe 1mm). On the surron this results in short and heavy boost. Is seems the throttle does not define thrust but speed, which isn't the way a throttle should work. Driving 30km/h onehanded is not possible because of the twitchy throttle. Even 1 mm of twist on the throttle leads to a short increase in speed so you have to always ride two handed.

I guess this must be a technical issue. Because I did not see any test video on youtube mentioning this issue. If this would be a general issue, there sould be videos about this arroud?

What is your expirience with the throttle and dosage? Is there a way to setup the throttle? In the past I had a self build MTB with a cyclon motor (also 2KW) of power. The throttle was much more usable.

cheers
Timo
 
Yes, the controller behaves like it has "speed command", so even the slightest change in throttle can give a full power surge. It seems worse when the speed limiting is engaged. It does take some getting used to. What you want is a "torque command" throttle so a small sudden increase does not result in a huge power surge.

I don't think there is any easy way to fix this. A different controller, like the ASI can be programmed to do this. I tried using a Cycle Analyst to do this but the latency of the system was too long and was very unstable (dangerous).
 
Thank you for the reply. This is exactly what I am experiencing. I really thought the x-controller is smoother compared to the standard controller. Or was that issue even worse with the standard controller? Or was that issue introduced with the digital wrist throttle? In the past it was a cable based wrist throttle. I actuall spend about 300€ more only to get a surron with x-controller. So I really don't want to swap the controller. I am from germany. For several years only the surron with the standard controller was available for a street legal version. Now also the x-controler is available for street legal version. So I purchased one. Now I am very unhappy with the "speed command" throttle. Normall a throttle really should be a "torque command" - ALWAYS :cry:
Do you think I will get used to it? I actually don't see anyone complaining about this (youtube, ...). So maybe I only have to ride more? In the past I had only thumb throttle on an self build ebike (cyclon 2KW and a 400 petrol quad). There I had no issue with the throttle at all.
 
TS81 said:
Thank you for the reply. This is exactly what I am experiencing. I really thought the x-controller is smoother compared to the standard controller. Or was that issue even worse with the standard controller? Or was that issue introduced with the digital wrist throttle? In the past it was a cable based wrist throttle. I actuall spend about 300€ more only to get a surron with x-controller. So I really don't want to swap the controller. I am from germany. For several years only the surron with the standard controller was available for a street legal version. Now also the x-controler is available for street legal version. So I purchased one. Now I am very unhappy with the "speed command" throttle. Normall a throttle really should be a "torque command" - ALWAYS :cry:
Do you think I will get used to it? I actually don't see anyone complaining about this (youtube, ...). So maybe I only have to ride more? In the past I had only thumb throttle on an self build ebike (cyclon 2KW and a 400 petrol quad). There I had no issue with the throttle at all.

I do think a thumb throttle would make it less annoying.
 
Do you know any thumb controller compatible with the surron? I searched but did not find one with is definitly working. I am able to solder cables. No problem. But the voltage an signals must be compatible with the surron.
 
Most standard hall throttles will work with the Sur-ron.

I've had both torque and speed command throttles and each has it's advantages. It does take some getting used to.

One other thing that may be worth trying is tweaking the throttle zero. If you need to advance the throttle more than a tiny amount to get the motor to start, it will make the twitchiness problem worse. You want just enough dead band at zero so the motor doesn't move. This is done by adding a trimmer pot in series with the throttle ground, usually a 500 ohm, 10 turn works with most systems. Adjust the pot until the motor barely starts to move, then back off a little. The dead band may vary with temperature, so you want enough so it never moves.
 
throttle zero is fine. No need to change this.
Is it possibble to switch to torque command with the x controller? Or is the only way to try another throttle. Do you have any recommendations for a good one (thumb or wrist)?
 
surron controller is programed to speed throttle, you cannot change it. It also bothered me a bit at first, but I got used to it. When I want to start slower and not at full power, I just turn the throttle gradually.
 
How about adding a thumb throttle just for slow riding, and set/limit the range from 1V-2V. Use the original throttle for normal riding, and the thumb throttle for those lower speed situations. If the thumb throttle is set for a narrower voltage range, but over the full physical range, it should be easier to control.
 
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