EV_Ron
100 mW
Hello endless sphere,
I bought a brand new, 500W rear hub motor this past December (still in warranty) from a well known seller in the U.S..
The problem is, after 40-50 miles, the hub case and wheel stopped turning, but I can hear the internals ("rotor"/"stator"?) spin.
The seller tech support said the cause this time was probably the SW900 LCD display and to buy a new one. I first complained about this display back in February. Then, the problem was, with display OFF, throttle and PAS would still operate the motor. This occurs both with SW900 and LED 810, and the clutch failure occurred with the LED 810 so, I don't see how it could be the LCD display and I asked them to explain... (I also poorly indicated my frustration, and they haven't responded.)
Up until the time of failure, the motor performed well both with the LED 810 & SW900, with more power than my Cute Q100, and probably more than my Q100H (stolen 5 years ago). I see 300-400W typically, and 700-900W during acceleration in PAS 3/4/5 or with full throttle. No other problems except the noise from the new motor, a whiny whir, similar to but about 3x louder than a Q100.
After hours of searching here, it seems the clutch has failed or at least locked up. At least six times I've tried d8veh's to "tangentially hit the tire forward" but had minimal success. By that I mean, a couple times- with the slightest throttle- the hub casing & wheel will now turn up to maybe 1mph, but at 2-3 mph it begins to groan a little bit and then the internal motor continues to spin, but it must overrun the clutch which stops engaging the 47.5mm gears & hub case. (I don't exactly know how this Sprague clutch works, or if the 87.8mm disc is the clutch or just the gear carrier. Is the large disc the clutch?)
I'm looking for ideas on a source for the larger clutch & gears spec'd below. There are no clutch-gear assemblies on their webpage, nothing on EMV, eBay, nor aliexpress. I did contact the seller but no resolution, yet. After 3 days now, I'd say they're ignoring me.
I opened the case and measured the clutch & gears multiple times. Everything looks perfectly normal:
I've searched all the dimensions numbers but nothing comes up for an assembly.
I've read many geared hub gear/clutch failure threads on E-S, but none discuss clutch/gears with these larger components:
Component measurements
1. Nylon gear diam. 47.5 mm
That's exactly 1.25x larger than the available 38mm nylon gears out there. I can find 47.5 mm gears on eBay for Bafang 8Fun motors, so it must be a thing, but there are no 47.5 mm gear & clutch assemblies and 87.8mm is not mentioned anywhere as a clutch diameter...or anything rise for that matter. I even checked 3-29/64" & 3-1/2" clutch assemblies (nearest 87.8mm equivalent), but nothing.
2. Nylon Gear thickness x 13.20 thick (typical gears are 12mm).
3. Clutch disc diameter x 87.8 mm
This is also 1.25x larger than all the 70mm clutches out there. Nothing is listed on eBay nor aliexpress.
4. Clutch disk thickness 10.2 mm
Stamped LM2012131
Having read that it's a closely guarded business secret about the manufacturer for this seller's motors (I've read MAC, MAC knockoff) does anybody know what gear set would work and a source? I've searched 10 different ways but the larger 87.8mm spec clutch assy. is not discussed anywhere that I could find, and I've checked E-S, ebike reviews, internet, seller's blog, YouTube.
Thanks.
More info (3-4 April):
I have maybe 40-50 miles on the motor, have only used it about 25 times for about 1-1/2 to 2-1/2 miles at maybe 10-12 mph, usually in PAS 2, sometimes 3. I may possibly use a more aggressive mix of throttle and stopping and starting pedaling, and use of brakes / motor cutout. I use the bike only in a big, flat, grass park in back of where I live. The ground is not rough, but it's not a putting surface, either. There are no roots, no ditches, no drops, and no jumps. I'm only 165, bike weighs about 50#, dual suspension.
From what I've read, it seems repetitive throttle/PAS on-off usage may be too rough for the clutch, which I guess is designed for constant speed?. I expect each on/off cycle has to repeatedly re-engage the clutch. I have not opened & inspected the clutch. The bike is dual suspension so there should be relatively little rotational impact due to wheels hitting anything.
I used the Q100 and Q100H the same way and they never failed (only the KU63/65 controller failed after 8 years, due to an internal 5V power supply, which was the reason for my upgrade.)
I did not know the winding count on this motor when I bought it and should have checked or asked, since I've read higher wind counts are for slower speeds requiring more torque like I need. Checking, I now see the spec'd RPM is 300 on their website, probably too fast for my purposes, but at this time, the clutch seems to be the component that failed, not the motor windings. And, the motor case always runs below 95F (cooler than a Q100) and the 500W controller runs at about 85F. I nearly always pedal with the motor adding maybe 100-150W.
The symptoms are no hub rotation even though the motor is whirring away inside. With throttle or PAS, the rotor(?) spins inside the case & sounds almost like normal, except the hub/casing does not turn. (4 Apr 22 update: with the motor and hub off the bike, if I connect the motor cable and turn the throttle, the axle turns just barely maybe 1/8 turn and when I stop the throttle the actual turns backwards about 1/8 turn (reverse EMF I guess?). If I turn the pedals a little faster I get a 1/4 turn of the axle, but there's minimal force.) There is no grinding or other noise, so I first assumed the gears were ok, and while waiting for an ebikeling response I opened the case: both nylon and metal gears appear perfect. (I do notice that most of the grease has piled up in 2 or 3 locations, so, the gear teeth surfaces apparently need very little grease.)
I'm using this motor with a "refurbished" 500W 36/48V ebikeling controller (never again) , at 41V down to 35V, I see 200-400W mostly, 550-750W occasionally and only momentarily at acceleration. I use both brake cutout (2-pin) & and PAS a lot and like them a lot.
Based on oneYouTube video, I just opened the case and after measuring the gears/clutch, I checked and everything turns easily, it's just that the motor seems to slip past the clutch. I tapped the axle twice and the silver clutch 5-6x with a plastic-headed mallet...I'd say 15-20# force? I...then powered up the motor and there is no change... hub case does not turn.
I bought a brand new, 500W rear hub motor this past December (still in warranty) from a well known seller in the U.S..
The problem is, after 40-50 miles, the hub case and wheel stopped turning, but I can hear the internals ("rotor"/"stator"?) spin.
The seller tech support said the cause this time was probably the SW900 LCD display and to buy a new one. I first complained about this display back in February. Then, the problem was, with display OFF, throttle and PAS would still operate the motor. This occurs both with SW900 and LED 810, and the clutch failure occurred with the LED 810 so, I don't see how it could be the LCD display and I asked them to explain... (I also poorly indicated my frustration, and they haven't responded.)
Up until the time of failure, the motor performed well both with the LED 810 & SW900, with more power than my Cute Q100, and probably more than my Q100H (stolen 5 years ago). I see 300-400W typically, and 700-900W during acceleration in PAS 3/4/5 or with full throttle. No other problems except the noise from the new motor, a whiny whir, similar to but about 3x louder than a Q100.
After hours of searching here, it seems the clutch has failed or at least locked up. At least six times I've tried d8veh's to "tangentially hit the tire forward" but had minimal success. By that I mean, a couple times- with the slightest throttle- the hub casing & wheel will now turn up to maybe 1mph, but at 2-3 mph it begins to groan a little bit and then the internal motor continues to spin, but it must overrun the clutch which stops engaging the 47.5mm gears & hub case. (I don't exactly know how this Sprague clutch works, or if the 87.8mm disc is the clutch or just the gear carrier. Is the large disc the clutch?)
I'm looking for ideas on a source for the larger clutch & gears spec'd below. There are no clutch-gear assemblies on their webpage, nothing on EMV, eBay, nor aliexpress. I did contact the seller but no resolution, yet. After 3 days now, I'd say they're ignoring me.
I opened the case and measured the clutch & gears multiple times. Everything looks perfectly normal:
I've searched all the dimensions numbers but nothing comes up for an assembly.
I've read many geared hub gear/clutch failure threads on E-S, but none discuss clutch/gears with these larger components:
Component measurements
1. Nylon gear diam. 47.5 mm
That's exactly 1.25x larger than the available 38mm nylon gears out there. I can find 47.5 mm gears on eBay for Bafang 8Fun motors, so it must be a thing, but there are no 47.5 mm gear & clutch assemblies and 87.8mm is not mentioned anywhere as a clutch diameter...or anything rise for that matter. I even checked 3-29/64" & 3-1/2" clutch assemblies (nearest 87.8mm equivalent), but nothing.
2. Nylon Gear thickness x 13.20 thick (typical gears are 12mm).
3. Clutch disc diameter x 87.8 mm
This is also 1.25x larger than all the 70mm clutches out there. Nothing is listed on eBay nor aliexpress.
4. Clutch disk thickness 10.2 mm
Stamped LM2012131
Having read that it's a closely guarded business secret about the manufacturer for this seller's motors (I've read MAC, MAC knockoff) does anybody know what gear set would work and a source? I've searched 10 different ways but the larger 87.8mm spec clutch assy. is not discussed anywhere that I could find, and I've checked E-S, ebike reviews, internet, seller's blog, YouTube.
Thanks.
More info (3-4 April):
I have maybe 40-50 miles on the motor, have only used it about 25 times for about 1-1/2 to 2-1/2 miles at maybe 10-12 mph, usually in PAS 2, sometimes 3. I may possibly use a more aggressive mix of throttle and stopping and starting pedaling, and use of brakes / motor cutout. I use the bike only in a big, flat, grass park in back of where I live. The ground is not rough, but it's not a putting surface, either. There are no roots, no ditches, no drops, and no jumps. I'm only 165, bike weighs about 50#, dual suspension.
From what I've read, it seems repetitive throttle/PAS on-off usage may be too rough for the clutch, which I guess is designed for constant speed?. I expect each on/off cycle has to repeatedly re-engage the clutch. I have not opened & inspected the clutch. The bike is dual suspension so there should be relatively little rotational impact due to wheels hitting anything.
I used the Q100 and Q100H the same way and they never failed (only the KU63/65 controller failed after 8 years, due to an internal 5V power supply, which was the reason for my upgrade.)
I did not know the winding count on this motor when I bought it and should have checked or asked, since I've read higher wind counts are for slower speeds requiring more torque like I need. Checking, I now see the spec'd RPM is 300 on their website, probably too fast for my purposes, but at this time, the clutch seems to be the component that failed, not the motor windings. And, the motor case always runs below 95F (cooler than a Q100) and the 500W controller runs at about 85F. I nearly always pedal with the motor adding maybe 100-150W.
The symptoms are no hub rotation even though the motor is whirring away inside. With throttle or PAS, the rotor(?) spins inside the case & sounds almost like normal, except the hub/casing does not turn. (4 Apr 22 update: with the motor and hub off the bike, if I connect the motor cable and turn the throttle, the axle turns just barely maybe 1/8 turn and when I stop the throttle the actual turns backwards about 1/8 turn (reverse EMF I guess?). If I turn the pedals a little faster I get a 1/4 turn of the axle, but there's minimal force.) There is no grinding or other noise, so I first assumed the gears were ok, and while waiting for an ebikeling response I opened the case: both nylon and metal gears appear perfect. (I do notice that most of the grease has piled up in 2 or 3 locations, so, the gear teeth surfaces apparently need very little grease.)
I'm using this motor with a "refurbished" 500W 36/48V ebikeling controller (never again) , at 41V down to 35V, I see 200-400W mostly, 550-750W occasionally and only momentarily at acceleration. I use both brake cutout (2-pin) & and PAS a lot and like them a lot.
Based on oneYouTube video, I just opened the case and after measuring the gears/clutch, I checked and everything turns easily, it's just that the motor seems to slip past the clutch. I tapped the axle twice and the silver clutch 5-6x with a plastic-headed mallet...I'd say 15-20# force? I...then powered up the motor and there is no change... hub case does not turn.
