Pas reverse direction ?

Jay2903

1 mW
Joined
Feb 5, 2022
Messages
15
Hey guys, hoping to get some help with bike im trying to set up.

I have a hub with an integrated pas, a kT controller and KT display. I connected it all up but when I turn the pedals forwards it doesn’t do anything however the motor kicks in when I turn the pedals backwards.

I tried changing the pas settings through the display but that made no difference.

Any ideas ?

HUB https://www.sharpbike.com/product/electric-bicycle-brushless-gear-motor-with-cassette-mt05c/
 

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docw009 said:
That's not an LCD5 display in your picture, but the obvious thing to do is to flip your integrated PAS sensor over, so it spins in the other direction.

type2.jpg

The pas sensor is integrated into the hub so I can’t flip it.
 
E-HP said:
If C1 is 00, 01, or 03, then change to 05, 06, or 07; or vice versa.

I dunno if I’m making a boneheaded mistake but I’ve tried every setting under c1 there’s 10 rather than 7, all of them only operate when I turn the pedals backward.
I haven’t touched any other settings. Is there anything else I might need to change ?
 
The Sharp webpage doesn't specify which kind of PAS sensor it is. There are several variations that provide different kinds of signals. It's also possible there is a wiring fault, etc.

Is there more than one wire for the "cadence" (pulse) signal? Does it also have a torque sensor, or just the cadence? (the site doesn't say, just says "with" for PAS, nothing about type, signals, wiring, etc)

What is the specific and exact wiring you have setup for the system? Posting a complete diagram of controller connections you have made might help us help you figure it out.

Your other thread appears to be for the same system? It might be good to move those posts into this one to keep all the info together for those trying to help you.
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=49&t=115453

I tried to copy the information on the Sharp page but they block it, so I had to copy it from the source of the page, hence all the extraneous HTML:
<p><img class="alignnone size-full wp-image-25604" src="https://www.sharpbike.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/10/Sharpbike-electric-bike-brushless-gear-motors.jpg" alt="Sharpbike-electric-bike-brushless-gear-motors" width="750" height="423" srcset="https://www.sharpbike.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/10/Sharpbike-electric-bike-brushless-gear-motors.jpg 750w, https://www.sharpbike.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/10/Sharpbike-electric-bike-brushless-gear-motors-300x169.jpg 300w" sizes="(max-width: 750px) 100vw, 750px" /></p>
<p><strong>Core Data</strong><br />
Position: Rear Motor<br />
Wheel Diameter (Inch): 16″-28″<br />
Construction: Gear Drive<br />
Rated Voltage (DCV): 36/48V<br />
Rated Power (W): 250W/350W<br />
Reduction Ratio: 1:4.4<br />
Rated Efficiency: ≥82%<br />
Max Torque (Nm.): 35/42Nm.<br />
Surface Color: Silver/Black<br />
Weight(Kg): 2.68Kg<br />
Noise Grade (dB): ≤55dB<br />
Operating Temperature (℃): -20-45<br />
Hall Sensor: With<br />
Integrate speed sensor: With<br />
<strong>Integrate pedal assit sensor: With</strong></p>
<p><strong>Mounting Parameters</strong><br />
Brake Type: Disc Brake/V brake<br />
Installation Widths (mm / OLD): 135<br />
Cabling Route: Shaft Side, Left<br />
Freewheel: 7-10S/11S(Cassette)<br />
Spoke Hole: 36H<br />
Spoke Specification: 12g/13g</p>
<p><strong>Tests & Certifications</strong><br />
Salt fog test(h): 24/96<br />
Waterproof Grade: IP54<br />
Certifications: CE</p>
<p><img loading="lazy" class="alignnone size-full wp-image-25986" src="https://www.sharpbike.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/03/sharpbeco-electric-bicycle-gear-hub-motor.jpg" alt="sharpbeco-electric-bicycle-gear-hub-motor.jpg" width="750" height="332" srcset="https://www.sharpbike.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/03/sharpbeco-electric-bicycle-gear-hub-motor.jpg 750w, https://www.sharpbike.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/03/sharpbeco-electric-bicycle-gear-hub-motor-300x133.jpg 300w" sizes="(max-width: 750px) 100vw, 750px" /></p>
 
Haven’t got much experience with his kind of stuff but the wiring seemed straight forward. There’s 9 wires coming from the hub 5 hall 3 motor and 1 pas. I connected them up to the controller accordingly by color. There’s three wires for pas from the controller so I connected the black to a ground and the red to the positive for the display. Then theres 4 wires from the display that I connected by color to the controller.

I think my last post had basically the same information about the components.

I naively thought all pas sensors were the same and I’d be able to just connect it all up to this controller and ride of into the sunset. Bit wrong it seems 😕
 
Well, that's a new design, I see what you mean about the integrated hub. Is there a separate cable for it? Seems dumb to me. PAS sensors fail, and now you gotta take out the motor?



stupid.jpg

So why not buy the PAS unit in my earlier picture, or another one if you don't like the all-in-one, and use that on your crank? If it's a KT controller, with a compliant LCD, it will be able to recognize the magnets for a regular PAS.

If the KT cannot read your hub mounted PAS sensor, no one can.
 
Jay2903 said:
Haven’t got much experience with his kind of stuff but the wiring seemed straight forward. There’s 9 wires coming from the hub 5 hall 3 motor and 1 pas. I connected them up to the controller accordingly by color. There’s three wires for pas from the controller so I connected the black to a ground and the red to the positive for the display. Then theres 4 wires from the display that I connected by color to the controller.

I think my last post had basically the same information about the components.

I naively thought all pas sensors were the same and I’d be able to just connect it all up to this controller and ride of into the sunset. Bit wrong it seems 😕
I haven't seen any discussion regarding that particular style of integrated PAS sensor on this forum. Frankly, based on how it's integrated, I don't see how it can be anything by a torque based PAS sensor, which very few controllers suppoort. Most controller support cadence based PAS sensors, so you may need to add cadence based PAS sensor to your bottom bracket, which is likely the most economical and least complicated way of getting PAS up an running.
 
E-HP said:
I haven't seen any discussion regarding that particular style of integrated PAS sensor on this forum. Frankly, based on how it's integrated, I don't see how it can be anything by a torque based PAS sensor, which very few controllers suppoort. Most controller support cadence based PAS sensors, so you may need to add cadence based PAS sensor to your bottom bracket, which is likely the most economical and least complicated way of getting PAS up an running.

It has some magnets integrated into the free hub lock ring and a sensor in the axle which is why I thought it was cadence and some setting for the KT controller would get it to work.
 
docw009 said:
Well, that's a new design, I see what you mean about the integrated hub. Is there a separate cable for it? Seems dumb to me. PAS sensors fail, and now you gotta take out the motor?



stupid.jpg

So why not buy the PAS unit in my earlier picture, or another one if you don't like the all-in-one, and use that on your crank? If it's a KT controller, with a compliant LCD, it will be able to recognize the magnets for a regular PAS.

If the KT cannot read your hub mounted PAS sensor, no one can.
It has got magnets like a regular pas, thats why I don’t understand why it won’t work. I might buy that pas just to see if it’s the integrated pas causing the problem.
 
E-HP said:
Can you post a pic of the wiring harness and connector of the cable coming from the motor?

From the hub is a 9 pin male Juliet connector.
 

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5 hall lines 3 motor wires and 1 pas wire from the motor to the controller
 

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docw009 said:
Well, that's a new design, I see what you mean about the integrated hub. Is there a separate cable for it? Seems dumb to me. PAS sensors fail, and now you gotta take out the motor?



stupid.jpg

So why not buy the PAS unit in my earlier picture, or another one if you don't like the all-in-one, and use that on your crank? If it's a KT controller, with a compliant LCD, it will be able to recognize the magnets for a regular PAS.

If the KT cannot read your hub mounted PAS sensor, no one can.

Not only that, but it also makes the hub thinner and less powerful as well. Hell, it's probably even heating up a lot easier as well potentially burning up the hall sensors. I wouldnt drive that hub beyond 250W.

@Jay2903
As for the PAS thing. There is absolutely no way your KT controller cannot do it in reverse. Don't you have a manual for it somewhere? I find it odd that you have 10 settings, maybe for whatever reason your KT controller has some menus shifted so it's maybe somewhere else like in C3 or similair. Something is defnitely off here.
 
Danishblunt said:
Not only that, but it also makes the hub thinner and less powerful as well. Hell, it's probably even heating up a lot easier as well potentially burning up the hall sensors. I wouldnt drive that hub beyond 250W.

@Jay2903
As for the PAS thing. There is absolutely no way your KT controller cannot do it in reverse. Don't you have a manual for it somewhere? I find it odd that you have 10 settings, maybe for whatever reason your KT controller has some menus shifted so it's maybe somewhere else like in C3 or similair. Otherwise make a picture of the KT computer and upload it here, maybe someone knows the specific model.

The hub itself is pretty standard, the sensor is inside the axle and the magnets in the Cassette ring.

Yea I’m a bit suspicious of the display, nothing seems to change through those ten settings, I tried changing every C setting that has more than 2 options to setting 4 but no change.
I uploaded an image of the controller and display I’m using.
 
Jay2903 said:
Danishblunt said:
Not only that, but it also makes the hub thinner and less powerful as well. Hell, it's probably even heating up a lot easier as well potentially burning up the hall sensors. I wouldnt drive that hub beyond 250W.

@Jay2903
As for the PAS thing. There is absolutely no way your KT controller cannot do it in reverse. Don't you have a manual for it somewhere? I find it odd that you have 10 settings, maybe for whatever reason your KT controller has some menus shifted so it's maybe somewhere else like in C3 or similair. Otherwise make a picture of the KT computer and upload it here, maybe someone knows the specific model.

The hub itself is pretty standard, the sensor is inside the axle itself and the magnets in the Cassette ring.

Yea I’m a bit suspicious of the display, nothing seems to change through those ten settings, I tried changing every C setting that has more than 2 options to setting 4 but no change.
I uploaded an image of the controller and display I’m using.

Maybe try to reset your display and see what happens. I had exacly your problem only even worse, because not only did I have to reverse the direction of the peddling but also had to do it extremely hard. Once I played with the settings its now very responsive and works on the right direction without me having to touch the PAS sensor at all. I have a really hard time believing that your computer cannot do it in reverse unless there is somewhere a bug in the software of the computer.
 
Jay2903 said:
5 hall lines 3 motor wires and 1 pas wire from the motor to the controller

Never seen red/white and black/white wires coming out of a KT controller. I've owned a dozen of them, and have four different styles. I saw your nine pin cable, and there should be three phase wires: blue, green, yellow, five Hall sensor: red/black for power plus yellow, blue, and green. The sixth wire is white for a speed sensor. All of this normally either comes out of the KT as a waterproof connector, or they adapter the nine pin cable using 3 bullets for the phase wires and a rectangular 2x3 fro the six signal wires.

This is probably not a new kit. but something you acquired used? Perhaps someone spliced in the KT and never got it working?

Just thinking that if you run the PAS signal signal thru an inverter, it might be recognized as a forward signal when you pedal forward. I'm not going to look at the waveforms. Be easier to plug in a PAS sensor on the crank.
 
docw009 said:
Never seen red/white and black/white wires coming out of a KT controller. I've owned a dozen of them, and have four different styles. I saw your nine pin cable, and there should be three phase wires: blue, green, yellow, five Hall sensor: red/black for power plus yellow, blue, and green. The sixth wire is white for a speed sensor. All of this normally either comes out of the KT as a waterproof connector, or they adapter the nine pin cable using 3 bullets for the phase wires and a rectangular 2x3 fro the six signal wires.

This is probably not a new kit. but something you acquired used? Perhaps someone spliced in the KT and never got it working?

Just thinking that if you run the PAS signal signal thru an inverter, it might be recognized as a forward signal when you pedal forward. I'm not going to look at the waveforms. Be easier to plug in a PAS sensor on the crank.

Yea you were right that I don’t think that was a Kt controller, I’m sure it said Kt in the listing. Anyways, I bought another one and and wired it up. It works in the forward direction now but a bit weirdly. It kicks in kind of randomly and only at low speed. I tried the other two settings under c1 and no difference really.
Do you know what other settings I should change ?
 
Jay2903 said:
Anyways, I bought another one and and wired it up. It works in the forward direction now but a bit weirdly. It kicks in kind of randomly and only at low speed. I tried the other two settings under c1 and no difference really.

If it started working pedaling in the right direction, that's a good sign. Intermittent or random often points to a poor connection. Make sure all of the pins in the JT connector are seated and the connectors are making good contact for starters.
 
E-HP said:
Jay2903 said:
Anyways, I bought another one and and wired it up. It works in the forward direction now but a bit weirdly. It kicks in kind of randomly and only at low speed. I tried the other two settings under c1 and no difference really.

If it started working pedaling in the right direction, that's a good sign. Intermittent or random often points to a poor connection. Make sure all of the pins in the JT connector are seated and the connectors are making good contact for starters.
Yea all the connections are good. I thought it was a settings problem because it’s not entirely random, it cuts in at a certain point then stops and the faster you pedal the less it does.
 
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