daymak throttle problems.

ynot

100 W
Joined
Mar 5, 2022
Messages
105
Bought a brand new daymak Florence trike for the wife for Xmas, since we bought it at auction and not from a dealer daymak will not help us.
Rad for example will honor their warrantee no matter where you bought the bike as long as you can show that it is not stolen, daymak not so much.

The motor is Bafang with a Bafang OMT-M3 display.
Problem: she wants to use throttle only as she cannot start the trike with pedals and the PAS gets the trike going too fast for her. We can program the trike to run on throttle only but the controller reverts to PAS only, when it is restarted after shutdown.
Downloaded the Bafang manual for the programming and it is a little bit different from the one on the trike, the trike only shows 18 parameters and the manual shows 20 parameters. Do not need the the top 2 but wonder if there are any other differences causing the throttle lockout,
It is a pain to have to re program the trike every time she wants to go riding, would appreciate any help.
 
Would really appreciate a hand here, have not opened the cover on the controller, would it help if we unplugged the PAS. Should I be thinking of changing the controller or the display?
The motor is a 500watt Bafang front hub, and the display is a Bafang OMT-M3
If swapping the controller is recommended suggestions would be welcome.
I do have a data cable, but the use of it is over my head.
My favorite wife was thrilled with the trike at Xmas, but now not so much.
 
Since its a consumer item, sold to the masses with an incorperated company only wanting to limit their liabilities

Welcome to Propreitary Systems

I do not know much about Daymak, but there are stroes around me.
That RAD ebike I see everywhere may be different, as it could be an Amazon product and no recourse for consumers for serious problems. Some of you will say, Amazon and Ebay are easy to retrun items, that is not a serious problem folks. Think about who do you sue? Ebay/Amazon sellers if you can reach their assets if they arent incorperated wont have muchstuff to take for the problem they caused.

Just something to think of when buying ebikeshit

One solution is to take the stock controller out and install a generic controller where you can use pas and/or throttle, your choice, DAYMAK doesn't make that choice for you. Is your Daymak a hub motor or mid drive? When I was in Daymaks local store years ago, they sold 12+ if not 15+ different models. It seemed to me as though, you just become an authorized dealer when if you want to sell Daymak as the store I went to had a side hustle on for parts and batteries.
 
THe first thing I'd try is just disconnect the PAS to see if it then defaults to throttle, or if it just errors out. (I expect the latter, but hope for the former).

If this doesn't work, then:

What assist levels does it have? A number of controllers preinstalled on OEM bikes I've seen have a throttle-only mode, often level 0 of the assist, but sometimes it's the highest level.

If this doesn't work, then:

What happens if you disconnect the display entirely, and just jumper from the battery positive wire on the controller connector for the display to the "KSI" wire (keyswitch / ignition)? I don't know which pin is which on that specific controller, but if it's a standard bafang pinout it should be like the one on the left in this image:
https://manual.eggrider.com/assets/images/cables/eggrider_v2_display_pinout.png
eggrider_v2_display_pinout[1].png
so the Power Lock pin 5 and Battery positive pin 3 are what you need to connect to turn the controller on without the display attached. Some controllers use a different pinout, and if so you can damage things by hooking them up the way teh Bafang uses.

To test which of at least teh two shown above it would be, you'd take the battery off the bike, then use a multimeter set to continuity or the lowest ohms setting. Black meter lead on the bike's battery cradle connector positive pin, red meter lead to each pin on the controller connector until it reads it's lowest reading, or beeps. Note which pin that is. Now move black meter lead to the cradle negative pin, and do the red meter lead on each pin of controller connector again, same process. Now you know which pins are battery and ground, you just need to find out which are data, and the remaining pin is the KSI / power lock pin. That's tougher. :(

With a multimeter, to test which are data lines, you'd need access to the controller's insides (or the wires inside the cable / connector to the display), while having the display plugged into the controller, *and* the system powered on, so that you can use the voltmeter to measure the wires to see which ones have around 2.5v on them--those are the data lines. However, if you already have it opened up, you can directly measure voltages on *all* the wires to this connector, and then you simply need to connect the two that both have battery voltage on them when the system is powered on from the display. Doing measuring with the power on and things disassembled has risks (zapping you, frying ebike parts, etc), however.

If the pads the wires are soldered to on the controller board (or display board if you open the display instead) are marked in a recognizable "plain" way, this may tell you which are which without doing any measuring with or without power on. (taking things apart also has risks of damaging parts...but it's less risk than doing it with power on ;) ).



I suspect that it's not saving the setting at power off because it's specifically designed not to save any setting that makes it operate differently than the OEM factory defaults. That may not be the case, but it certainly makes things easier for support personnel--they just tell you to turn it off and back on and then it "magically" works like it did before, if the problem was a user-altered setting (which is a fairly common problem and fix for quite a lot of technology).


I doubt that changing the display would make a difference, but it is possible that for this system the settings are stored in it rather than the controller. It's more likely you'd need to change them as a set (displays and controllers aren't widely intercompatible; parts from OEMs may have different firmware on them than even the identical hardware for non-OEM (or different OEMs) versions, so even if they connect up they may not operate as expected).


If you want the pedals to be able to control the speed of the trike as easily as the throttle does you can do what I did on my SB Cruiser trike to do this. The Cycle Analyst v3 from http://ebikes.ca can take the input from the existing PAS sensor (and throttle) and output just a pure throttle signal to any old dumb controller that has the power level you want from the Daymak, based on whatever settings you choose in it (including power and speed limits if you like).

It also can monitor battery info, which is useful for troubleshooting problems when they occur, if you want that feature.

I would recommend the CA-SA version, so it comes with an external shunt for battery current monitoring (and hooking up to power to run it), and it's own separate wheelspeed sensor.

If you get the plain CA version you'd need to wire up a connector on your controller (opening it up, locating solder pads on the board, and soldering wires to them) to use all it's features.

ATM I'm using one generic dumb controller and one Grinfineon, both controlled by the one CAv3 from my PAS cadence sensor (with the throttle also connected to it for times I can't pedal or at least not hard enough to get started). Each controller runs one of the rear wheel hubmotors.
 
ynot said:
Problem: We can program the trike to run on throttle only but the controller reverts to PAS only, when it is restarted after shutdown.

So to restate the symptoms, you set P10 = 1 at the start of each ride, but when you shut off the bike, it reverts back to P10=0, correct?
 
That is one of the first steps you do in troubleshooting, visual check and check the connectors and if all else fails hard wire it. Then if you get deep into the weeds, your check continuity of wire with your dmm but thats a last resort or just something to do and see. Another last resort is flashing the display if it can be done. By that time, its best to have bought a $30 controller online, use your bafang motor and....hope yours isnt Propreitary gets and locks in peoples balls. Dream customer or ebike in shed customer.

Buy a KT display/controller kit if you really want the display
There is the three speed wire for most other generic controllers, more features like cruise control where if the throttle doesnt move while riding for 5-15 seconds it engages the cruise at the speed your going, but I find the cruise disengages if set to slow and going up a hill (more load, higher amps)
I have a 3 speed wire on my non KT,,,,, generic controller, never used 3s. You can buy 3 position switch for the handle bars. Also remember there is the Cycle Analyst (CA), expensive yes. Also remember controllers need that CA plug.

I have had very good luck with these controller, I dont do displays. No bling bling eye catchers for me tyvm.

Well, might as well be useful then ramble on.
KT Display - https://evfittinggreentime.aliexpress.com/store/313864
I have no personal experience with PSW Power but read good things about them, and some bad things but the good outweigh the bad - https://www.pswpower.com/






The motor is Bafang with a Bafang OMT-M3 display.
Problem: she wants to use throttle only as she cannot start the trike with pedals and the PAS gets the trike going too fast for her. We can program the trike to run on throttle only but the controller reverts to PAS only, when it is restarted after shutdown.
Downloaded the Bafang manual for the programming and it is a little bit different from the one on the trike, the trike only shows 18 parameters and the manual shows 20 parameters. Do not need the the top 2 but wonder if there are any other differences causing the throttle lockout,
It is a pain to have to re program the trike every time she wants to go riding, would appreciate any help.
 
ynot said:
Would really appreciate a hand here, have not opened the cover on the controller, would it help if we unplugged the PAS. Should I be thinking of changing the controller or the display?
The motor is a 500watt Bafang front hub, and the display is a Bafang OMT-M3
If swapping the controller is recommended suggestions would be welcome.
I do have a data cable, but the use of it is over my head.
My favorite wife was thrilled with the trike at Xmas, but now not so much.

Controller and display (in most cases) MUST be matched!

The Bafang motor in question (if the web site pictures are accurate) is a geared hub motor, so there is little doubt the controller is made by a 3rd party, and uses programming blessed by the bike manf. That programming (internal to the controller) has you locked out by the sounds of it.

So yes, changing the controller AND display likely a good idea here, and me being a fan of the KT controllers, that's the one I would endorse.

It must be understood that Bafang geared hub motors use a third party controller (no built in controller), while the Bafang mid drives use a built in controller (by Bafang). The built in controllers, depending on the generation, would be programmed using a "cable".

Regarding unplugging the PAS sensor, the signal from that sensor may be what is allowing the power to be turned on, allowing the throttle to work. You can try unplugging it, but I have reservations regarding your luck with that plan. Not that I've never been wrong before....
 
E-HP said:
ynot said:
Problem: We can program the trike to run on throttle only but the controller reverts to PAS only, when it is restarted after shutdown.

So to restate the symptoms, you set P10 = 1 at the start of each ride, but when you shut off the bike, it reverts back to P10=0, correct?

Yes that is exactly what happens, its like there is a nasty little gremlin living in there.
 
@AHicks,@Caleb, @Amberwolf.
Thanks to each of you as well as E-HP.

Am using 3 KT controllers now, one on my bike and two on my trike, they seem to be pretty seamless.
Will give some serious thought to swapping the daymak controller for KT & display.
Problem with my ability to do MM checks is that at 79 yo my hand is too shaky, and when I look at the maze of wires coming out of the controller, each with it's own set of connectors I have to realize that troubleshooting wire by wire is not a possibility. With the KT controller/display set up, I can simply buy a KT - t4 cable and everything is plug and play. Did some soldering yesterday to put diodes on the charging wires of my bike batteries and the connections look as if they were done by my 5yo grandkid. Used to be able to solder a stone setting on a ring for m'lady, but am not whiii-iining.
If I am going to swap controllers I will have to have help unless I can use KT cabling.
Thanks again, you guys are the light at the end of the tunnel.
 
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