I need a light enduro frame for next build....

I want enclosed battery and enduro look with175mm dropout swingarm.
Vector light comes to mind, but swingarm is only 135mm dropout....and rear swingarm a looks a bit shaky?
What other options are out there?
Not looking for speed, just something to explore Central Florida State Park fire roads (packed sand/gravel).
Would be mounting up a 1000W geared motor of some sort (Bafang RM-062-1000 variant on short-list).

i got a vector light 135mm swingarm. i think there's a wider version. swingarm looks thin but is triangulated, so is actually very strong. i picked a DD hub (QS 205 35h), a small geared hub might be too weak for this kind of build

fitting nicely inside are a 17s6p 18650 pack and a really small but powerful for its size kelly KLS7212

Very nice!
I have two options it looks like:
#1) Go hard-tail with fat-tire rear tire.....benifits: frames are cheap and plentiful. Disadvantages: I dont get enduro look and concealment (show-stopper) of battery/etc. not seamless.
#2) Go DD motor using Vector light frame...benifits: I get the light/stealth look I want. Disadvantages:Costs go up a bit and has DD drive.
I have my heart set on a geared-hub, so will see if another frame option pops up. Wide swingarm option is not wide enough and adds $199 to frame cost.
At the moment my target wattage for geared motor shoe-horns me into pig-heavy enduro frames with geared hubs. :-(
I've got questions about your build. I'll take them over to your build thread.
Thanks.
P

What battery the heart of the system are you going to use and what controller ? Geared no motors can melt So can D.D. but can take watts more power.

Check this out.....
Here is the "Fat" version of Light frame: https://eleek.com.ua/en/item/tovar-11-2-1-1-1-1/
I'll buy it from Vector today if they can source if for same price as 135mm Light version.
P

I have "fat version" of Vector Light frame.
I use 20s7p battery.

Um. "I want a lighter version of a pig-heavy and ugly bike because I prefer it to be ugly."

Bikes-- regular bikes-- are light by design. Suitcase bikes are heavy because they aren't regular bikes, and they don't have 150+ years of refinement behind them. In fact, they have none. They only have a suitcase full of batteries, and useless extra weight.

Why the 175mm dropout ? Chalo I think it started 203 years ago.

999zip999 said:

Why the 175mm dropout ?

Click to expand...

1000W geared Motor requires 175mm dropout.

This build is engineered to be a woods-bike for Florida forest roads and trails. Trails are often loose sand.
I want slow-speed torque offered by this geared motor. Also want fat rear tire.
Dirt bikes (prefered my KLX250, but cant use it) illegal in FL state and national forest bike trails, and must be plated for forest roads.
Other option is ebike....although will be pressing FL legal e-bike definition a bit.

Nixunen said:

I have "fat version" of Vector Light frame.
I use 20s7p battery.

Click to expand...

Nixunen, which motor and controller? All-in weight? What rims? Thanks. Nice build BTW. Very nice.

Fits a cassette and the disconnect helps in removing rear tire

999zip999 said:

Fits a cassette and the disconnect helps in removing rear tire

Click to expand...

Note the power cable is not run through middle of axle. Much stronger.

I use mxus 3k 3000w "fatbike clone" motor. Controller is Nucular 12F. Rims are from Robsson. 26" and 80mm wide. I use 4" tyres at front and back. Wider tyres works also, but i like that size. https://www.robsson.de/en/wide-rims/

Nixunen said:

I use mxus 3k 3000w "fatbike clone" motor. Controller is Nucular 12F. Rims are from Robsson. 26" and 80mm wide. I use 4" tyres at front and back. Wider tyres works also, but i like that size. https://www.robsson.de/en/wide-rims/

Click to expand...

Thanks for the details.

All that added weight of an Enduro ebike with such a small, low power hub motor.
You should look at going mid drive BBSHD/C3kw or Leaf 1500W, MXUS/QS 3kw for forestry back country riding.

markz said:

All that added weight of an Enduro ebike with such a small, low power hub motor.
You should look at going mid drive BBSHD/C3kw or Leaf 1500W, MXUS/QS 3kw for forestry back country riding.

Click to expand...

Did you read my post?
I said:
"I need a light enduro frame for next build..."
---and----
"Not looking for speed"

With that said, maybe you have an on-topic comment or suggestion vs recommend a 4.2 horsepower 32 pound boat-anchor DD motor?

PS: You say "All that added weight of Enduro".....you do realize that the enduro builds do not need to be heavy?
This enduro frame and swingarm weighs in at only 13 lbs. https://eleek.com.ua/en/item/tovar-11-2-1-1-1-1/

PSS: Mountain bikers typically get around the forest pretty well with just 200 average watts at the wheel human power. I figure 1000W will do quite nicely on a well engineered E-bike platform.

pullin-gs said:

markz said:

All that added weight of an Enduro ebike with such a small, low power hub motor.
You should look at going mid drive BBSHD/C3kw or Leaf 1500W, MXUS/QS 3kw for forestry back country riding.

Click to expand...

Did you read my post?
I said:
"I need a light enduro frame for next build..."
---and----
"Not looking for speed"

Click to expand...

I think it's fair to compare the geared fatbike motor to the next closest thing markz mentioned (Leaf 1500W).

The fatbike motor is lighter by about five pounds. That's significant, but it comes with tradeoffs. It's less efficient, so easier to overheat, and it rejects heat a lot more slowly than the Leaf motor. At 85Nm max torque, it has about 20% less than the Leaf's maximum, and more risk of heat damage when using its torque to the utmost.

The Bafang hub will build up into a much stronger, more reliable wheel, like for like, with more lateral bracing than the Leaf. That's a bigger deal than most people appreciate.

Bafang's motor is restricted to just the one winding, so you have to govern speed by changing voltage. Leaf is available with whatever winding you request, so they can tailor the motor to deliver optimum torque and efficiency at your desired RPM, without having to use unorthodox voltage.

It could require more current to get the best out of the Leaf motor, which might mean it takes more battery and controller to do the job. Choosing a high turn count winding can help mitigate this.

Even though the Leaf motor is very efficient, it's still kind of a bummer to pedal around when not powering it. The geared Bafang motor has an overrunning clutch, so it coasts much more freely (though still not as freely as a normal bicycle hub).

Overall, I think the geared hub motor is a better fit to your application, assuming you don't flog it too hard. But either one could be entirely satisfactory with the right setup.

Mountain bikers typically get around the forest pretty well with just 200 average watts at the wheel human power.

Click to expand...

That's average. Peak power for even a casual MTBer can easily exceed 1000W at times. That's one way in which a box-framed "enduro" bike can come up short, because it impairs effective pedaling by being too wide and ergonomically dorked up. A fit MTB rider may have more total wattage available than you do, to muscle up abrupt rises or through soft spots.

Chalo said:

Peak power for even a casual MTBer can easily exceed 1000W at times.

Click to expand...

Otherwise helpful analysis, but this is incorrect. No casual MTBer can exceed 1000W, let alone "easily".
Casual rider would have less than 10W/kg 5s and 5W/kg 1min sprint. 500W 5s and 250W 1min sprint for a 100kg rider.

pullin-gs said:

#1) Go hard-tail with fat-tire rear tire.....Disadvantages: I dont get enduro look and concealment (show-stopper) of battery/etc. not seamless.
#2) Go DD motor using Vector light frame...benifits: I get the light/stealth look I want.

Click to expand...

Chalo said:

Um. "I want a lighter version of a pig-heavy and ugly bike because I prefer it to be ugly."

Bikes-- regular bikes-- are light by design. Suitcase bikes are heavy because they aren't regular bikes, and they don't have 150+ years of refinement behind them. In fact, they have none. They only have a suitcase full of batteries, and useless extra weight.

Click to expand...

pullin-gs said:

markz said:

All that added weight of an Enduro ebike with such a small, low power hub motor.

Click to expand...

Did you read my post?
I said:
"I need a light enduro frame for next build..."
---and----
"Not looking for speed"

With that said, maybe you have an on-topic comment or suggestion vs recommend a 4.2 horsepower 32 pound boat-anchor DD motor?

PS: You say "All that added weight of Enduro".....you do realize that the enduro builds do not need to be heavy?
This enduro frame and swingarm weighs in at only 13 lbs. https://eleek.com.ua/en/item/tovar-11-2-1-1-1-1/

Click to expand...

I have to agree with Chalo and markz.
There is nothing light/stealth look to Vector, nor does it conceal the battery -- the whole frame is battery.
And it is intended for 10-15kW.

Eleek 13lbs is double what an equivalent bike frame weighs.

Neither make sense for 1kW. Use an actual light frame for 1kW.

Vector no longer has "light" frame in stock. Their supplier (Eleeke) does not even have it. They seem to be focusing on heavier frame options.
Change of plan: Looking at fat MTB options now that have 190mm offset.
Mongoose Hitch fat MTB ($300 bike from walmart...ditch everything but frame) steel donor frame would work in pinch.
Having trouble finding 26 inch wheel 19-inch Aluminum with 190mm offsets.
Would have liked to go this route, but is only 170mm offset:
https://www.framedbikes.com/products/framed-minnesota-2-0-x5-crankset-fat-bike-frame-kit

In MTB bicycle frames, a light enduro is 8 lbs including hardware, shock and BB. And, it does ride damn good as compared to a box frame.

pullin-gs said:

Vector no longer has "light" frame in stock. Their supplier (Eleeke) does not even have it. They seem to be focusing on heavier frame options.
Change of plan: Looking at fat MTB options now that have 190mm offset.
Mongoose Hitch fat MTB ($300 bike from walmart...ditch everything but frame) steel donor frame would work in pinch.
Having trouble finding 26 inch wheel 19-inch Aluminum with 190mm offsets.
Would have liked to go this route, but is only 170mm offset:
https://www.framedbikes.com/products/framed-minnesota-2-0-x5-crankset-fat-bike-frame-kit

Click to expand...

What is 190mm offest? Do you mean 190mm rear (frame/hub) spacing?

If you don't need gears, Walmart also has the equivalent Dynacraft Krusher for $200.

My initial thoughts of the OP when I first read this thread, and rereading the thread.

With such a heavy frame choice, and very small power I thought maybe the OP was concerned about the legislation for where he lives. Florida states 750W, then theres all that sillyness about classes of ebike

pullin-gs - "#1) Go hard-tail with fat-tire rear tire"
Unless you are riding conditions for a fat tire bike, I'd stay clear of fat bikes especially in Florida because I doubt you will be riding beaches most of the time, or muddy swamp land.

"This build is engineered to be a woods-bike for Florida forest roads and trails. Trails are often loose sand.
I want slow-speed torque offered by this geared motor. Also want fat rear tire.
Dirt bikes (prefered my KLX250, but cant use it) illegal in FL state and national forest bike trails, and must be plated for forest roads.
Other option is ebike....although will be pressing FL legal e-bike definition a bit."

So yeah I pegged it right from the top didnt I. However, even at 1kw, you'd be illegal because Florida is 750W.
I like the comment on must be plated for forest roads. LOLOLOL Then you want a motorcycle looking ebike with no plates on it.
I like the comment on pressing FL e-bike definition a bit, so you arent a Briton scared of the Bobbies. Aus, NZ seem to be the same. Whats the appetite for ebikes in Florida? Bunch of old people right? Bunch of crazy people right because of the countless Florida Man stories. Isnt there some very loose drinking n driving laws where you can drive a scooter or something. I'd kinda assume Fla is loose but depends on the district I guess, if the donut shop was open or not. Who knows.

At any place, you are better with bicycle looks and high power, than motorcycle looks and legal power.

markz said:

Unless you are riding conditions for a fat tire bike, I'd stay clear of fat bikes especially in Florida because I doubt you will be riding beaches most of the time, or muddy swamp land.

...So yeah I pegged it right from the top didnt I. However, even at 1kw, you'd be illegal because Florida is 750W.
I like the comment on must be plated for forest roads. LOLOLOL Then you want a motorcycle looking ebike with no plates on it.

Click to expand...

While I don't like the bulk of a fat frame, I think they're otherwise ideal for ebikes. Correct chainstay length and width for motorcycle rims and tires with full fenders/mudguards, and wide hubs with wide spoke flange spacing improve bracing angle/triangulation, allowing stronger wheels for the same weight, or lighter wheels for the same strength.

But yeah, you pretty much called it.

MadRhino said:

At any place, you are better with bicycle looks and high power, than motorcycle looks and legal power.

Click to expand...

Agreed -- not just for the rider himself, but for all of us.

markz said:

My initial thoughts of the OP when I first read this thread, and rereading the thread.

With such a heavy frame choice, and very small power I thought maybe the OP was concerned about the legislation for where he lives. Florida states 750W, then theres all that sillyness about classes of ebike

pullin-gs - "#1) Go hard-tail with fat-tire rear tire"
Unless you are riding conditions for a fat tire bike, I'd stay clear of fat bikes especially in Florida because I doubt you will be riding beaches most of the time, or muddy swamp land.

"This build is engineered to be a woods-bike for Florida forest roads and trails. Trails are often loose sand.
I want slow-speed torque offered by this geared motor. Also want fat rear tire.
Dirt bikes (prefered my KLX250, but cant use it) illegal in FL state and national forest bike trails, and must be plated for forest roads.
Other option is ebike....although will be pressing FL legal e-bike definition a bit."

So yeah I pegged it right from the top didnt I. However, even at 1kw, you'd be illegal because Florida is 750W.
I like the comment on must be plated for forest roads. LOLOLOL Then you want a motorcycle looking ebike with no plates on it.
I like the comment on pressing FL e-bike definition a bit, so you arent a Briton scared of the Bobbies. Aus, NZ seem to be the same. Whats the appetite for ebikes in Florida? Bunch of old people right? Bunch of crazy people right because of the countless Florida Man stories. Isnt there some very loose drinking n driving laws where you can drive a scooter or something. I'd kinda assume Fla is loose but depends on the district I guess, if the donut shop was open or not. Who knows.

Click to expand...

How long did you spend typing that up? You did not even address topic at hand. "
Lets try again. I asked: "I need a light enduro frame for next build....".
Thoughts?

FYI Florida is a sand bar. Of the 800 miles or so of Florida National/State Park forest roads, 50% of them are packed sand:


The other 50% are loose sand: Standard MTB tires do not do well on these