Need motor recommendations for cargo bike

M

Moustachemiks

1 mW
Joined
Jul 12, 2021
Messages
17
Hi everyone!

I’ve been trying to come up with a great construct for an electric cargo bike meant a for carrying either a grown person or tools and materials for carpentry.

I’ve read around and so fare, what I’ve seen is that the Bafang 1000w BBSHD could be an option, however, I am inexperienced in this field and stumbled across the board. Read a few posts and decided to try ask for advice.

I’ve attached a photo of the bike.
Edit. It was too large. Below is a gallery of the bike type.

The frame is hardened aluminium.

https://www.batak.dk/batak-i-det-frie

All hints, tips and tricks is highly appreciated!

As of now I only have the frame. Will get wheels, breaks etc, when I’ve decided on a motor.

Cheers!
M
 
No expert here either, but I do know the BBSHD is considered rock solid if you can make it work! The fact it has a built in controller means you don't have to figure out that piece too. It SOUNDS like a good plan, but suggest you keep asking questions until you are satisfied it really is.
 
ef18f87c5d7ffcd3b5cfd5f075ff7fff.jpeg

Denmark is flat, and that bike has a small front wheel. You have an especially favorable situation for a front hub motor.

There are tradeoffs that come with a crank drive like BBSHD. It wears out chains and sprockets very quickly, and it's likely to wreck your internal gear hub. On a bike like the one you've linked, it will hang low and be subject to damage when rolling over edges and obstructions.

I think you'd be much better served by a geared front hub motor like MAC, using a voltage and motor winding that gives you the top speed you want.
 
Chalo said:
ef18f87c5d7ffcd3b5cfd5f075ff7fff.jpeg

Denmark is flat, and that bike has a small front wheel. You have an especially favorable situation for a front hub motor.

There are tradeoffs that come with a crank drive like BBSHD. It wears out chains and sprockets very quickly, and it's likely to wreck your internal gear hub. On a bike like the one you've linked, it will hang low and be subject to damage when rolling over edges and obstructions.

I think you'd be much better served by a geared front hub motor like MAC, using a voltage and motor winding that gives you the top speed you want.
Click to expand...

The point of low hanging, wear and tear and Denmark being flat are some really good points!

I guess my only concern with a front hub motor is - will it really deliver enough torque? (Not even knowing how much I will need).

I have no intentions of not pedalling and just throttling forward. My daily commute is done on a racebike at the moment, so I guess I’m looking for a motor where I get the feeling of being powered/assisted forward without it being a scooter. If you know what I mean?

Thanks!
 
Chalo said:
ef18f87c5d7ffcd3b5cfd5f075ff7fff.jpeg

Denmark is flat, and that bike has a small front wheel. You have an especially favorable situation for a front hub motor.

There are tradeoffs that come with a crank drive like BBSHD. It wears out chains and sprockets very quickly, and it's likely to wreck your internal gear hub. On a bike like the one you've linked, it will hang low and be subject to damage when rolling over edges and obstructions.

I think you'd be much better served by a geared front hub motor like MAC, using a voltage and motor winding that gives you the top speed you want.
Click to expand...

Can you link to a front hub mac motor? Seems I can only find rear-wheel hubs. Is it possible to use a rear on the front?😊

EDIT.. i found this. Does it look promising?

https://ozo-electric.com/en/front-wheel-hub-motor-bike/140917-front-mac-motor-1000w-1500w.html

Also, what do you mean by motor winding?

Thanks a lot! I appreciate it :)
 
Check ebikesca for a front MAC and tutorials that will explain winding.
 
Moustachemiks said:
2old said:
Check ebikesca for a front MAC and tutorials that will explain winding.
Click to expand...

Thanks! :bigthumb:
Click to expand...

Note that the front GMAC from Grin Tech doesn't have a one-way clutch, so it doesn't coast freely. You should get either the non-Grin version or see if Grin will furnish one with a clutch.
 
Chalo said:
Moustachemiks said:
2old said:
Check ebikesca for a front MAC and tutorials that will explain winding.
Click to expand...

Thanks! :bigthumb:
Click to expand...

Note that the front GMAC from Grin Tech doesn't have a one-way clutch, so it doesn't coast freely. You should get either the non-Grin version or see if Grin will furnish one with a clutch.
Click to expand...

Do you know if the product I linked to looks any good? And is it normal that some motors (like this in the link) is restricted to using their Ozo Sinewave controller? I sent them a mail asking if its T6;T8, or T10 :roll:

Thing is I need to find a european dealer to avoid extremely high import taxes from US.
 
Moustachemiks said:
EDIT.. i found this. Does it look promising?

https://ozo-electric.com/en/front-wheel-hub-motor-bike/140917-front-mac-motor-1000w-1500w.html
Click to expand...

That's a good one for you. At 48 volts, it will have a top speed a little over 35 km/h. If you want to be closer to EU speed restrictions, run it on 36 volts.
 
Chalo said:
Moustachemiks said:
EDIT.. i found this. Does it look promising?

https://ozo-electric.com/en/front-wheel-hub-motor-bike/140917-front-mac-motor-1000w-1500w.html
Click to expand...

That's a good one for you. At 48 volts, it will have a top speed a little over 35 km/h. If you want to be closer to EU speed restrictions, run it on 36 volts.
Click to expand...

It appears it was sold out :(
Guess I’m back hunting for a front hub motor.. bummer 😅
 
Moustachemiks said:
Thing is I need to find a european dealer to avoid extremely high import taxes from US.
Click to expand...
Try this URL https://www.goldenmotor.com/contact/dealer.html
If you scroll down the page you will find a list of 54 Dealers in the EU.
You may not want a GM hub but they should have other bits and pieces on offer as well.
 
LewTwo said:
Moustachemiks said:
Thing is I need to find a european dealer to avoid extremely high import taxes from US.
Click to expand...
Try this URL https://www.goldenmotor.com/contact/dealer.html
If you scroll down the page you will find a list of 54 Dealers in the EU.
You may not want a GM hub but they should have other bits and pieces on offer as well.
Click to expand...

Amazing! Thanks 🤙🏻
 
I stumbled across this one:

Is it an advisable front hub?

https://www.devi-motion.com/webshop/e-bike-kit/p-1/D1000875.html
 
Moustachemiks said:
I stumbled across this one:

Is it an advisable front hub?

https://www.devi-motion.com/webshop/e-bike-kit/p-1/D1000875.html
Click to expand...

Golden motors has two lines of E-Bike Hub motors.
"Magic Pie" is a direct drive hub available for front or rear.
"Smart Pie" is a geared hub available for front (they had both in the past but I believe they discontinued the rear version).
The current version of the "Smart Pie" is 24 Amps. I do not not know what the "Magic Pie" is running.

Both "Magic Pie" and "Smart Pie" use the same controller that is build into the hub (user replaceable).
It will run 36, 48 or 52 nominal voltage batteries.

Worst thing about ALL Golden motor hub motors is their atrocious wiring harness. Seven feet (2 meters) of mostly useless cable between the front Axle and the handlebar throttle. I have a six year old Smart Pie. That cable is my major complaint.

You can also get them shipped direct from China via Air Express ...
so it is not cheap (shipping can cost more than the hardware)

Note: This particular vendors seems to ONLY stock motors for 16-20 inch wheels.
Front wheel 20 "/ Rear wheel 26"

Just looked at the picture Chalo posed. A small wheel and long cable would work for that bike.
Personally I prefer geared hubs but there are some here that would only consider direct drives.
 
LewTwo said:
Worst thing about ALL Golden motor hub motors is their atrocious wiring harness. Seven feet (2 meters) of mostly useless cable between the front Axle and the handlebar throttle.
Click to expand...

Might be a blessing in disguise for someone running a front load cargo bike.
 
Chalo said:
Might be a blessing in disguise for someone running a front load cargo bike.
Click to expand...
Until they need to remove the wheel. The first cable section is over a meter long.
 
I Think I might have turned my eyes back towards a bafang mid drive and then equip it to an internal rear gear wheel modified to gates belt.

However, how fast do you recon a 36v 500w bbs02 would be? I think I can fit it between the frame (above the crank). That way it won’t hang low and be exposed.

Seems I can’t get my hands on a Mac front motor hub without dealing through alibaba etc., which I’d prefer not to due to bad quality parts etc.

Any thoughts?
 
Moustachemiks said:
I Think I might have turned my eyes back towards a bafang mid drive and then equip it to an internal rear gear wheel modified to gates belt.
Click to expand...

Mid drives eat up chains and sprockets. That's just the deal. Drive belts aren't as robust as chains, and don't tolerate heavy use as well. It seems inevitable that using a belt with a BBS02 will sign you up for frequent and expensive parts replacements. If you go this way, give your belt drive the best possible chance by using the largest sprockets that will give you the ratio you want.

There is also a likelihood that motor power will crunch up your internal gear hub. The hub might have a maximum input torque rating, and if so you should estimate and compare your maximum pedal plus motor torque at the wheel.
 
Chalo said:
Moustachemiks said:
I Think I might have turned my eyes back towards a bafang mid drive and then equip it to an internal rear gear wheel modified to gates belt.
Click to expand...

Mid drives eat up chains and sprockets. That's just the deal. Drive belts aren't as robust as chains, and don't tolerate heavy use as well. It seems inevitable that using a belt with a BBS02 will sign you up for frequent and expensive parts replacements. If you go this way, give your belt drive the best possible chance by using the largest sprockets that will give you the ratio you want.

There is also a likelihood that motor power will crunch up your internal gear hub. The hub might have a maximum input torque rating, and if so you should estimate and compare your maximum pedal plus motor torque at the wheel.
Click to expand...

Thank you once again, Chalo! I really appreciate your replies!
I'm soooo torn between a front hub and a bafang mid drive. I guess my greatest concern is that I know Bafang is reputed for solid and robust units and high quality, and after spending endless time searching for a Mac front hub in europe (to no avail), I can't seem to seperate the sheeps from the goats in regards to different front hubs :D Especially when it comes to geared front hubs without any drag when manually pedalling etc. PAS is important to me.

I guess I will go with a reinforced chain after all and disregard the belts. In my head it was a brilliant idea, however, I'm glad your experience can seprate those brilliant ideas from actual good ideas :D
 
That's a bunch of BS about mid-drives eating driveline components. I've used a BBS02 for six years off road on pretty tortuous trails, riding a couple of times a week and am on my second drivetrain. I'm using a 30 tooth Luna chainring and Shimano Altus level 8-speed derailleur, freewheel and chain. I ride the steepest hills in socal although most probably only average 7% or so for the 10 mile ascent, and always shift carefully.
 
I have used a Bafang g311 front wheel motor in a tandem (175kg total weight with two riders), no reliability problems for the short while we had it when kept at low to normal power ranges (i.e. helping while we mainly pedal), and is relatively quiet, freewheels etc. This version is sold for 36v in a 26 inch wheel, so you could run it at 48v for the smaller front wheel with a different controller. You can test the impact of different versions of the motor, voltages and wheel sizes here: https://ebikes.ca/tools/simulator.html?motor=MG310_STD&mass=150&wheel=20i

I bought mine in the EU from here: https://www.atmparts.eu/p24_eu/eshop/de/2W/FWD25036C15-26 I guess they would also provide helpful advice on 48v running, tell you the winding of the version they sell, and maybe even fit it to a small rim for you.

RE a Grin (ebikes.ca) GMAC motor without a clutch, I believe if you use it with a cycle analyst and Grin controller, you can set it to provide a tiny amount of power all the time so that it feels the same as freewheeling, and you will recover with regen more than that tiny amount, plus benefit from regen brakes with heavy caargobike loads to assist the standard brakes.
 
matmaxgeds said:
I have used a Bafang g311 front wheel motor in a tandem (175kg total weight with two riders), no reliability problems for the short while we had it when kept at low to normal power ranges (i.e. helping while we mainly pedal), and is relatively quiet, freewheels etc. This version is sold for 36v in a 26 inch wheel, so you could run it at 48v for the smaller front wheel with a different controller. You can test the impact of different versions of the motor, voltages and wheel sizes here: https://ebikes.ca/tools/simulator.html?motor=MG310_STD&mass=150&wheel=20i

I bought mine in the EU from here: https://www.atmparts.eu/p24_eu/eshop/de/2W/FWD25036C15-26 I guess they would also provide helpful advice on 48v running, tell you the winding of the version they sell, and maybe even fit it to a small rim for you.

RE a Grin (ebikes.ca) GMAC motor without a clutch, I believe if you use it with a cycle analyst and Grin controller, you can set it to provide a tiny amount of power all the time so that it feels the same as freewheeling, and you will recover with regen more than that tiny amount, plus benefit from regen brakes with heavy caargobike loads to assist the standard brakes.
Click to expand...

That`s awesome. Thanks for the links! 👍
 
2old said:
That's a bunch of BS about mid-drives eating driveline components. I've used a BBS02 for six years off road on pretty tortuous trails, riding a couple of times a week and am on my second drivetrain.
Click to expand...

2old said:
That's a bunch of BS about mid-drives eating driveline components. I've used a BBS02 for six years off road on pretty tortuous trails, riding a couple of times a week and am on my second drivetrain. I'm using a 30 tooth Luna chainring and Shimano Altus level 8-speed derailleur, freewheel and chain. I ride the steepest hills in socal although most probably only average 7% or so for the 10 mile ascent, and always shift carefully.
Click to expand...

Well, I have my own experience of BBS02 which is very different, plus the experience of the handful of other BBS02s and BBSHDs I've installed for friends and customers. None of them get very long service out of a chain, cassette, or chainring either. They ride more than a couple times a week, though.

It makes sense. Even the BBS02 is running at a much higher average loading than a pedal drive. That's not going to be inconsequential for a system as tightly optimized as a bicycle.

Maybe you don't use a chain checker, or otherwise assess the condition of your drivetrain parts? I have a regular customer like that. By the time his BBSHD cargo bike comes in with a problem, it's so eaten up that a lot of replacement parts are required. (He also wears out his disc brake pads until the backing steel backings tear up the rotors.)
 
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