The Incredible Shrinking Rockhopper

simonov

1 W
Joined
Sep 10, 2019
Messages
56
Location
Reno, NV
Last month I decided to buy the Specialized Rockhopper Sport 29 my local bike shop was advertising on their website. It was a XXL size with hydraulic disc brakes, both features of high importance to be (I am 6'5" tall). The bike was fitted to me (a new stem was installed) and I was very happy to ride home on the first bike I've ever owned that seemed to fit me well.

However, when I got home I noticed the disc brakes were mechanical, not hydraulic (and worked no better than my other bike's rim brakes, which I thought were deficient, but I guess that's just how mechanical bike brakes are). So I took the bike back and got a big runaround about how I was looking at a 2022 model on the website but the bike they had in inventory was a 2021 model and since they were a small business they could hardly be expected to keep track of things like that, etc, etc (I decided not to mention I've been running my own small business for almost 20 years and still found their behavior inexcusable). Long story short, I paid them $200 to take the bike back and order a 2022 model with the hydraulic brakes. I picked it up yesterday.

While I rode my new bike to work I noticed it didn't feel as big as the bike I traded in. My ass kept trying to slide back, whereas I remember fitting perfectly on the other bike. The sticker on the bike said XXL, but that didn't mean anything. So I pulled out a yardstick and started measuring the bike, comparing it to the geometry specifications I found online.

As I measured I noticed many of the dimensions were incorrect. In some cases it did indeed seems as if I had an XL instead of a XXL, but other dimensions didn't match either size. Then I realized I was looking at Specialized's "Bike Archive". I opened the current page for the Rockhopper and noticed some of the dimensions were different. In fact, almost all the dimensions that changed between 2022 and whenever the other page referenced were smaller:

Code:
XXL Dimensions (mm)             2017     2022    XXL Δ
-------------------------------------------------------
B-B Drop                         69       62     -10%
B-B Height                      305      310       2%
Bike Stand-Over Height          895      853      -5%
Chain-Stay Length               450      440      -2%
Crank Length                    175      175       0%
Fork Length (full)              515      515       0%
Fork Rake/Offset                 46       46       0%
Front-Center                    702      770      10%
Handlebar Width                 720      740       3%
Head-Tube Angle (degrees)      71.0     68.5      -4%
Head-Tube Length                140      135      -4%
Reach                           441      485      10%
Saddle Width                    143      143       0%
Seatpost Length                 400      400       0%
Seat-Tube Angle (degrees)      73.0     73.5       1%
Seat-Tube Length                560      560       0%
Stack                           677      654      -3%
Stem Length                      90       70     -22%
Top-Tube Length (horizontal)    648      679       5%
Trail                            80       97      21%
Wheelbase                     1,144    1,203       5%

Now the main dimension that should matter to me is the front-center, which apparently got longer. But depending on how the angle is measured, that could be mitigated by the reduced head-tube angle, placing the handlebars closer to the seat. But I'm not sure how the angle is measured. The reach is longer too, so maybe that compensates for the other changes. It doesn't feel longer. I dunno.

Meanwhile, some of the measurements I took off the bike are unrelated to the published specs. The top tube is almost two inches shorter than the 679mm advertised length. I suppose that might have something to do with why my ass is sliding back off the saddle.

I understand specs are subject to change, but I am irritated that all almost the changes went one way, for smaller riders. And as any of you big guys know, it is getting pretty exhausting having to live in a world that seems to be made for dwarfs. For example, though I spent most of the 1990s flying, I can no longer travel by air without buying a First Class ticket (Business Class for international), and not because I've gotten any bigger. I really thought I had hit the jackpot with my new bike.

However, I concede I could be imagining things. I'm going to take the bike back to the shop this weekend and compare it to the 2021 model to see if there really is a significant difference.
 
simonov said:
However, when I got home I noticed the disc brakes were mechanical, not hydraulic (and worked no better than my other bike's rim brakes, which I thought were deficient, but I guess that's just how mechanical bike brakes are).

No, that's how mediocre bike brakes are. Lame brakes come in all styles, including gratuitously hydraulic. Good strong brakes also come in all types. I recommend Avid BB7 with slick stainless cables and sintered metal pads.


The top tube is almost two inches shorter than the 679mm advertised length. I suppose that might have something to do with why my ass is sliding back off the saddle.

Effective top tube length is measured center to center, from the top of the head tube back to the seat post along a horizontal line. This dimension can vary quite a lot from the actual end-to-end top tube length.

The need to slide back on the saddle may be more a function of a steeper seat angle than of the top tube length. Recent MTBs have slacker head angles and steeper seat angles than what used to be typical.

If your issue with the bike is about you fitting your body on it, you can swap in a longer stem, higher handlebar, and/or a seatpost with more rear offset. I've been doing these things for 35 years now to make mass market bikes fit me.
 
Well, I absolutely love the hydraulic brakes. I actually skidded yesterday, like when I was a kid using coaster brakes.
 
simonov said:
Well, I absolutely love the hydraulic brakes. I actually skidded yesterday, like when I was a kid using coaster brakes.

Yeah, they'll work fine until the tiniest amount of the stuff pushing on the back of the pads works its way around to the front of the pads. Then they'll become weak and noisy.

Not only do cables stay where you put them, but they don't ruin brake pads if they touch them.
 
I had much better racing reliability with Avid cable brakes. The cable doesn't boil on you unexpectedly when doing 100mph into a corner entry.

I did end up hydraulic though, but with a moto GP bikes front end and dual rotors, and that was the safest best brakes I ever still have experienced under all braking situations and fatigue. It also weighs more for the braking setup than some complete pedal roadsides, and the cable disc caliper was the next best option for a ton lower mass. Well adjusted hydros can feel better though (in the pre-boiling time).
 
liveforphysics said:
The cable doesn't boil on you unexpectedly when doing 100mph into a corner entry.

I assure you that will never, ever be a concern for me.
 
Chalo said:
~until the tiniest amount of the ~

Not only do cables stay whe~


Random ridiculous unrelated force info from the brain of Dog Dip.

I have a cable brake ( well, linkage rod) on a lawn mower that runs in case fluid and is steel on steel. Can stop that 18hp, 600lb mower from 13mph like its a big rig truck with an air loss. Lock em up in an instant. Friction pad area is smaller than a bicycle brake.

lol. Who needs hydraulics. Huh. Lol. What you need is good heat shedding ability. For a good brake. I have not found a bicycle brake yet that is anywhere near up to the task. I warp the rotors on my bike in 2? 3? seconds and they get crazy wavy... Look like a big wave spring.... When they get black/blue hot. Slow down gently a few times and they go back to occupying one plane.

... And these are good name brand downhill rotors.. and four piston calipers...

...not that bicycle bling junk rotors that are thin as aluminum foil and trash blinged out designs.... holes everywhere copy-of-Galfer-waves.. those things are super junk.

I get them red, ( my Hayes 8 inch rotors on my bike) easy, a thousand times or more by now. 100$ rotor. They are trash. I have boiled my ( mineral oil base) fluid for sure before when I tried to push the limits..... lever just falls to the bar. ....goes flat. I can do it in a mile. You can really beat up on rotors with an ebike.

Ok back to the subject at hand.
 
I have not found a bicycle brake yet that is anywhere near up to the task......
Well, that would be because the “task” you are giving them is not what they were intended for !
How heavy is your “bicycle” ?
What weight does it have to stop ?
How fast do you ride it ?
Use a brake that suits the application.
 
Bicycle fit issues is the biggest drawback to ordering a bike without being able to test ride it. Some get lucky, to some it doesn't matter so much. If you are "hard to fit" it's better to buy a bike from your FLBS or local online, where you can testride.

Like Chalo mentioned above, you can probably get the bike to fit you better with accessory stem/handlebars/seatpost.
 
Hillhater said:
How heavy
What weight
How fast
Use a brake that suits the application.

98lbs is the bicycle..
I am 175lbs so...

.. 273 lbs gross weight..

.. to fast for bicycle brakes. Yeah its the speed. My bike is kinda a joke after one month of +50mph speed. Everything is wearing at an extreme fast rate... the tires, the wheel bearings, the head bearing, the struts and bearings... the creaks, the shimmies.. the wobbles.. come and go time to time.. but.. Yeah. You are right. About 2x the speed of a good long lasting ebike. From 35mph average speed to 50mph average speed has overcome all things " bicycle" on my ride.. and I need to turn it down or get a better one. This speed is beating it up a little for sure. The 33lb motor in the rear tire does not help much.

The brakes performed good up to 35mph... I have MT-520 by Shimano and I never had any problem with them taking the heat.. They could handle the small hub motor fine... ect. Then I installed a big motor and ruined my ebiking experience.
 
For the OP - 6'5" here and I agree it does take some searching to find a comfortable bike ...and the frames do change over the years ...and I agree, they do seem to be either getting smaller, or seem to have less options in larger sizes. My main riding bike is a GT avalanche XXL from ~2010. They don't seem to have any XXL frames anymore. I grabbed a Luna X1 in size XL a couple years ago - already a pretty big frame and I enjoyed that, too. Now it seems they don't have an XL version anymore.

Anyway, sorry to hear about the brake 'run around'. Though one thing to consider - at least for me - is that if you have a frame you are happy with, lots of little bits can be upgraded. Specifically in the brakes, there are all sorts of pad combinations, caliper piston counts, rotor diameters, cables, hydros, etc.

I'd also note that brake performance can often improve with some wear / break-in. Often with a freshly assembled brake, the pads aren't aligned to the rotor and perfectly mating with the surface. You may even have to do a quick scuffing of the rotor surface and 're bed' the pads for better stopping.

But either way - It might even be worth going back to the frame you like and upgrading brakes. That is why I stick with my old GT. I've been through sets of tires, brakes, rotors, bearings, chains, cogs, pedals, cables, derailleurs, bottom brackets, and more, but man, I love that old bike!
 
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