Adventures On The Cheap

Thanks, I just ordered a pair.

I'm concerned that they won't be enough, this freewheel seems to be pretty deep, but we'll see when they arrive.

Raketemensch said:

Thanks, I just ordered a pair.

I'm concerned that they won't be enough, this freewheel seems to be pretty deep, but we'll see when they arrive.

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As long as they just clear the freewheel, you can use any old M14 / 9/16" washer for additional space if you need it.

E-HP said:

As long as they just clear the freewheel, you can use any old M14 / 9/16" washer for additional space if you need it.

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When you say "just clear," do you mean that they should fit inside the freewheel? In my head that makes the most sense -- they would butt up against the axle inside the freewheel and extend just past it so that the freewheel spins freely without touching the dropouts.

The ones I have (the ones you listed above) almost fit inside, but not quite, which obviously won't work.

The flat washer(s), which ARE readily available in hardware stores(they might even be Amer. Standard size, doesn't matter w/ washers), go between the the spline end of the cassette/free whl. and the inside of the dropout. it rests against the recessed bearing and the bare metal of the dropout, moving the end of the spine away from rubbing. Since the overall width is slightly more, the chain stay might have to be spread a little during whl. install.
It's NBD

In case pictures are better for you, I found this on google. One of my bikes required a freewheel spacer (washer labeled O) inside the smallest gear to keep the chain from rubbing on the dropout. Thankfully it came with the kit, and I installed everything in this order minus the metal tube, which I've never seen a kit use before.

thundercamel said:

In case pictures are better for you, I found this on google. One of my bikes required a freewheel spacer (washer labeled O) inside the smallest gear to keep the chain from rubbing on the dropout. Thankfully it came with the kit, and I installed everything in this order minus the metal tube, which I've never seen a kit use before.

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Yup, picture is really helpful. For the DNP freewheel, "O" needs to be a small enough diameter to fit inside the freewheel hole, since the axle shoulder doesn't extend beyond the freewheel due to it's width. I needed "O" to clear the freewheel, plus another regular washer to get chain clearance. Sounds like the "O" washers still have too large a diameter, although I had ordered the same ones and they fit, barely. Might be something that can be addressed with a file or sand paper if the diameter isn't too much larger.

Yup, I use a 28-11t DNP freewheel on both of our bikes. A bench grinder would be faster. If you were near me, I'd just give you the spare washer that came with my kit.

Even the "Q" spacer can be used unmodified if it is installed w/ the tang facing inwards.

I actually have a few Os, but they don't fit inside the freewheel. I wish I had a bench grinder so I could just take a little off of them, maybe I can stop by a friend's house this weekend and take them down a little.

Should there be a metal tube?

Thanks for all the help everyone, the picture was extremely helpful.

I installed everything in this order minus the metal tube, which I've never seen a kit use before.

I used one of the "C" washers (not pictured) when I first got my DNP, while I was waiting for the "O" to be delivered. It worked, but I didn't trust it, and when I replaced it, you could see it was starting to open up, and would have failed. It worked OK for a week though.

I had a c-washer, but I can’t seem to find it. I have the proper spacers coming from Grin, I finally bit the bullet and spent $15 shipping on 2 washers.... They arrive Thursday, and it should be a really quick swap now.

I finally extended my battery wires yesterday so that I could move the controller to the rear rack. I think it looks cleaner, but the big win is that I can put this thing on a bike rack again.



Obviously the wires behind the seat are a mess. I had planned to pass them through a bag, but the fit is too tight. I think I’m just going to end up with a black Velcro wrap around them to tighten them all down to the rack. I have some MT30s here to get rid of that huge terminal block on the phase wires, but I just didn’t feel like soldering yesterday.

Oh, and I got the Hookworms on. It was just too damn hot to ride, though. Today and tomorrow are supposed to be even worse.

I also contacted the Amazon seller for the other spacers, as well as leaving a review, with this picture, which I believe explains why the spacers I bought don’t work:



They appear to be almost half a mm too big.

I ordered a 3mm spacer as well as a 5mm one, figuring one of them would have to be right. I’m glad I did, because I ended up needing both. At this point I’m practiced enough that it only took me about 15 minutes to pull the wheel, swap the freewheel and remount it.

It works great now, though. I just went for a quick shakedown ride, and it’s nice to have the smaller gear for sure. There’s also a good feeling just from having all 8 gears on the shifter be usable.

I am still going to get a new crankset with a replaceable chainring for the front, as the 42t on there right now is definitely too small. I’ll start out with the 48t that the crankset comes with, which will most likely be enough anyway.

Once I get that on I’ll bring this thing to the LBS to get the derailleur tuned — I’m horrible at it. It’s close right now, but not quite ideal.

We’re getting pretty far past the solstice now, too — time to install the 82v headlight I picked up...

Good work. Must have needed both spacers because you have an 8-speed freewheel, which I forgot.

I also had to swap out the crankset from 42T to 48T on my wife's bike. I've read that the curvature of the front derailleur is supposed to match the largest chainring, but I didn't want to bother buying a new one, since she never uses the smaller chainrings anyway. I was barely able to get it to a place where it worked for all three chainrings though.

Thanks! Turns out it was well worth the effort.

That little 11t makes suuuuuch a difference for me. I use Strava, so I don't have a speedometer, but I'm pretty sure I'm still able to pedal at ~25mph. Maybe a little less.

I went for a longer shakedown run yesterday and stopped a couple of times to make sure everything was good and tight, as I broke 40mph on hills a couple of times. One of the best things about ebikes for me is that most of my rides finish up with a long, sloping, not-very-steep downhill run of probably 2 miles to my driveway, so I usually just dump the rest of my battery that I've so carefully saved by trying to maximize my pedaling for an hour or so... So I just crank the throttle and do 40 for a couple of miles down a road with a 40mph speed limit. Last night there were two cars staying probably 4 car-lengths back just watching. I felt like a god, until I forgot to downshift from 24th before the hairpin into my driveway, and couldn't pedal, and had to walk-of-shame my bike up to the garage.

I also wanted to see how the Hookworms would do on dirt, and hauled ass down one of my favorite local dirt roads -- wow, this thing is fun. I grew up riding motorcycles through the woods, and skiing through the woods, but both of those things take loads of preparation. Now, though, I can just get on my bike after dinner and bomb around the area and get that same pushing-the-limit, should-I-really-be-doing-this adrenaline pump. I spent probably the next 20 minutes trying to process just how much fun that was.

I still have 42t in the front, which is really close to enough, so I think 48 should be fine, and a lot easier to find than 50. Especially since there's already a 48t crankset on another bike in the garage -- this adventure IS supposed to be on the cheap, after all.

So I ordered the Park crank puller tool, and next weekend I'm going to try to swap them. I'm pretty sure they're both square taper, but either way I'll find out.

when i do this i always feel like some "no fun Nancy" is calling the cops on me trying to ruin my fun and day.

bakaneko said:

when i do this i always feel like some "no fun Nancy" is calling the cops on me trying to ruin my fun and day.

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When you do what, try to conserve battery?

Raketemensch said:

bakaneko said:

when i do this i always feel like some "no fun Nancy" is calling the cops on me trying to ruin my fun and day.

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When you do what, try to conserve battery?

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No, go 40 mph and beat cars off the line hard.

We're in Wildwood, NJ for the week. We bought a big cargo hitch rack for the car, without thinking about the fact that, like, that's where the bike rack goes? Expert planners, here. Let us plan your next wedding!

The hitch rack is awesome, I have to admit, we got every single bit of beach crap that we need (4 boogie boards, 4 beach chairs, umbrella, umbrella anchor, pails and shovels and a big beach wagon for dragging it all) into it, so I couldn't possibly make the argument for the bike rack, but... Come on, man. I live in the mountains, and for every 10 miles I ride there's an average of 1,000ft of elevation changes. I want to try this sea-level shit again! Flat stretches of road as far as the eye can see!

We also have a soft cargo bag that we put on the roof, though, so after some scheming around the packing, I managed to fill it with bedding and clothes, all soft stuff. Then I threw my bike on top and bungie corded it to hell and back:



Damn, that back rim is heavy as hell to get up over your head and onto the roof safely.

Even if I sleep in until 9 or 9:30 I still have an hour to an hour and a half before the kids are up and ready to do anything, so I took off for a ride this morning, and got 11 miles in pretty quickly -- at home that'd be around 1200ft of elevation change, but this morning it was a total of 7 feet. Woo!

The best part, though, is that I now understand what everyone is talking about with being able to keep up with, or beat, traffic from a stoplight. Damn, that's fun. But the drivers here are... sort of...

Well, it's New Jersey, so you pretty much risk your life every 20 feet or so. Some dude in a Mercedes stared me straight in the face as he turned left in front of me and nearly took me out. I was tempted to chase him down, just to make him run for it, but I didn't want to risk more lives.

After that it was pretty chill, a nice stretch in a nature preserve, then back around some great expanses of salt marsh. Then I got lost for a bit, which is always my favorite thing to do in a beach town, because no matter what you''ll eventually hit some landmark that tells you exactly where you are.

It was nice to get a 10+ mile ride in and still have the energy for the slog to the beach and back, dragging that huge-ass cart, never mind the 3 or so hours playing in the surf with my kids and the dog.

Tomorrow I'm going to try to get to Cape May and back.

I would highly recommend crank-down cargo straps rather than bungee cords for stuff you like to keep.

Bungees have a bad habit of crimps or knots or whatnot failing under bouncing loads / repetititititive pulling, so the cord comes out of the spring/hook.


I've carried lots of cargo on lots of platforms (mostly bikes and trailers, but moved a fair bit of stuff with other people in their trucks/cars), and way too many bungees, even when not overstressed or aged, came apart and let stuff move/come off/ etc.

Cargo straps can break too...but that has only happened once to me, and it was the metal hook itself that broke while tightening it.

Thanks, that’s sensible advice. I’ve had them fail myself and didn’t even think of it. I need to pick some up for a trailer I built anyway...

It's been an amazing summer on this thing -- waning daylight hours suck. My oldest starts junior high tomorrow, which means not only getting up early again, but getting up an hour earlier than the last 7 years. Bleh. We went camping this past weekend, and having an ebike at the campground is just the bomb. There were some nice trails all through the woods around it, so I spent some time out there with my wife and my youngest, trying not to be a jerk and whizzing by them on all the hills.

My 6th grader wants to start riding to school now, which is nice. That means that on my mornings to get up with him I'll ride with him to the school, then continue on my own for morning rides around town. That part I'm almost looking forward to, despite the fact that I've finally worked out a job that lets me sleep until almost 9:30 every morning, which is my ideal hours. Whoever decided to let morning people rule the world was an idiot.

There haven't been a lot of modifications to the bike, which is a good thing, it means I'm almost "done." I've got the 48t gear on the front now. I changed out the crankset myself (ended up using a gear puller on one that refused to budge otherwise), but fell apart at adjusting the front derailleur, so I brought it to my LBS and paid $100 to have it all tuned up and adjusted. That seemed reasonable, and they got the front derailleur working despite the fact that it's meant for a smaller chainring, but the rear derailleur is still a mess. I've gotten used to the fact that I should stick to the even-numbered gears.

My latest top speed (which doesn't use the motor at all) was 47.6mph according to Strava, and I was still pedaling (albeit very quickly), so I think I'm done with gearing.

I'll be adding the front light soon, and am googling around for a high-volt tail light as well, because of the stupid darkness. Whoever decided to let nighttime happen was an idiot.

I've also been eyeing a Kelly sinewave controller for $150, but not for any particularly good reason -- it would be nice to be quieter, but the bike isn't that loud now. And it'd be nice to have brake regen, but from everything I've read it's not a ton of charge created, and the downhills without brakes are the best part, so... I'll still consider it, and probably will one day bite the bullet, but I have the feeling it'll turn into a fidgety thing that I end up adjusting all the time and trying to find the right settings, whereas right now the thing just Goes.

The final thing I'd like to do is find a way to charge this UPP battery to 85% instead of full, but the BMS is built-in. I'm not sure how to handle that yet. The Satiator looks nice, but is a lot of money and I'm sure it'd be possible to build something that will cut off power earlier.

Which reminds me, I need to go plug that sucker in...

thundercamel said:

In case pictures are better for you, I found this on google. One of my bikes required a freewheel spacer (washer labeled O) inside the smallest gear to keep the chain from rubbing on the dropout. Thankfully it came with the kit, and I installed everything in this order minus the metal tube, which I've never seen a kit use before.

Click to expand...

Hey man, I did some work recently, and have to apologize that I lied earlier! My ebikeling 1500w rear motor with 11-28 7-speed DNP freewheel has 1 tabbed washer inside the dropout on the left, and 2 flat washers PLUS 1 tabbed washer inside the dropout on the right! The 4 washers total really make it a 2 person job to install while fighting the dropouts. I believe my wife's 1000w motor with the same freewheel took one less washer, and is easy to do with one person.

Glad you're having fun! Pedaling to 47.6mph sounds incredible! I can only contribute pedaling up to 30mph, with 48t front 11t rear 700x38c tire, which is like 80rpm cadence according to the sheldon brown gear calculator. That's already super fast pedaling to me.

I also hope to get a regen capable sinewave controller eventually, though I have my eye on the Phaserunner instead of Kelly for variable regen with an extra throttle. Charging to less than 4.2 volts per cell is supposed to be accomplished within the charger rather than the BMS, though it can be done with a smart BMS. I read that most chargers have an adjustable potentiometer inside for tuning the final voltage, and that was true with my cheap Vruzend charger. I've kind of ended up with your attitude this season anyway, because I enjoy using the battery a bit more with it fully charged every time.

I have links to inexpensive high voltage head and tail lights on the first post of my build thread. The performance is great, but the headlight bracket is weak, and the tail light required a piece of electrical tape over the white center section.

I'd love a phaserunner, but it's twice the cost. The hackability of the Kelly would've totally sucked me in as a younger man, but now i'm old and just want things to work...

Thanks for the heads-up on the Vruzends! I'll definitely pick up a 52v and spin that little potentiometer. It might even be worth just opening up my current charger and seeing if there's one in there. Maybe I'll do that tonight. Using a 48v charger on the 52v might be worth it too.

It looks like I might be getting a bonus for referring someone for a job at work, which I'm going to use to build a second ebike for the family, to bring someone with me when I roll out.