Adventures On The Cheap

I managed to wrangle $400 out of the budget for my birthday this year, to pick up a 1000w motor and a battery. In the end I hit $432, and got:

a 1000W 26'' rear wheel hub motor for $142
a UPP 52V 13Ah 30A batter with BMS for $289

I have an older Diamondback Topanga, a medium-range mountain bike from before Dave Matthews peaked, when Kurt Cobain was still alive, etc. I think I bought it in 1992. It took less than an hour to get everything installed and wired up -- I only had to solder two wires, and the battery mounted on the water bottle screws, and so I had to do a quick test run instantly, before I even had the back brakes working again. Really not the best idea, but I survived, and the initial 1/4 mile shakedown run went fine, except for all the facial pain from The Grin.



The frame is still solid, but because the derailleur and shifters were cheaper, they had plastic adjusters on them, which have both broken. This morning, the first nice day with free time in the 3 weeks I've had it, I managed to get things adjusted so I can change 2 gears on the back and between 2 sprockets on the front. Not ideal by any stretch, but certainly rideable.

I don't own a stand, nor do I have the budget for one, but it hit me that I could put the bike rack on the car and just throw it on there, which worked perfectly.

The wheel kit was pretty much as cheap as it gets. As you can see in the photo above, the bag for the controller is way too small. I can't even zip it up with just the controller in there, never mind all the wiring that's still hanging out... That will get sorted with time, I'm still not sure if I'm going to move it to the post behind the seat or not, so I'm not getting too crazy about it yet.

The controller is a 12fet, which is great for such a low price (IMHO), but it didn't come with a screen, so I'm just judging the battery level by the red/yellow/green lights on the twist throttle. I wanted a thumb, but whatever, it's not a big deal.

So after adjusting the derailleur as well as I could and getting the back v-brakes working again, I took it out for its first real shakedown run today, thinking I'd head to the local general store and back. One of the main reasons I picked this thing up is that the roads are *really* hilly around here, and being old and somewhat out of shape, I couldn't really ride anywhere.

Things were going well, so I rolled right past the store, taking a right onto a little road that leads to a few miles of dirt road where we take the dog for off-leash runs. I had never seen the far end of it, so I kept my eye on the battery lights, and rolled right out the other end. I started onto a loop to head back home, then remembered a HUGE hill that I didn't want to attempt, so I turned around and headed back up the road the other way.

In the end, I rode 13.27 miles, and did 1,170 feet(!) of elevation changes, with an average speed of 16.5mph, with a top speed (downhill, no motor at all) of 44.5mph. My battery was still green on the flats, dipping to yellow (half) on hills. I realize that this was the first full charge of the battery and it's going to go downhill from here, but it's a UPP and should have some stamina.

Most importantly, I'm still in awe of how much fun it was. When I was a kid I lived in a beach town, so everything was level, and I covered probably 10-15 miles/day in the summer, just getting to friends' houses, swimming holes, hangout spots, ice cream, etc. In my 30s I started riding motorcycles, and loved the hell out of being out in the world instead of inside a car, getting to smell everything, soaking everything up...

But this -- this is just amazeballs. I pedal a lot just to have things quieter, so I can hear the world around me. I had tried listening to music back in the motorcycling days, but it ruined the experience for me, I want to hear the world around me as I go. At this pace you notice so much more, and it being springtime in New England... it's just gorgeous. I've driven these roads a hundred times and not noticed things I saw today.

Long story short -- I spent ~$400 on a thing that I wasn't entirely certain about, and it's my new favorite thing. You all understand, right?

Next steps are:

1) Slime the tires
2) Statorade for quietude and longevity
3) Find a screen that will work with this controller
4) Torque arms
5) Get out and ride more

Number 5 is the most important, of course. This thing is working and in decent shape, so I don't need to do a ton of work on it. It's just really tempting to do so.

I'm also keeping my eye out for bikes with full suspension and at least mounts for disc brakes. I'm going to look at a Mongoose tomorrow, and bringing my battery to see if it will fit in the downtube spot for the water bottle:



It has vbrakes, but the front fork has disc mounts, so I could add one later. My braking situation makes me a little nervous right now (with these 45mpg hills around here), and the roads are just trashed coming out of winter. There are some roads where I'm swerving around potholes as much as I would on a trail.

If I can fit the battery on that downtube then I can just mount the controller behind the seat, which would be nice and keep some weight both forward and low. Still waiting to hear from the guy selling them, though.

The only issue is I don't think I'll be able to get it on the bike rack without the straight top tube. I think there are adapters that make that possible, but I haven't looked around yet.

I just spotted this guy for sale locally -- it's a little out of my price range, but just imagine all the gear you could stash on it:



Of course, there's no way in hell I could get that sucker on the rack.

Next steps are:

1) Slime the tires
2) Statorade for quietude and longevity
3) Find a screen that will work with this controller
4) Get out and ride more

Number 4 is the most important, of course.

Click to expand...

Except for #4, don't bother.
1)Those tires use tubes and sealant doesn't work well in tubes. Maybe if something like a thorn gets stuck in the tire/tube, it might seal the hole, but the majority of time, whatever made the hole will come out, or worse yet, the tube gets torn and it's over. Not to mention the unholy mess sealant makes when you take the tire off.
A much better approach is to change over to a premium "flat resistant" tire like the Schwalbes or WTB's and if there is one avail. and room to install it, an extra thick tube.
2)No need to fix a problem you don't have, nor will ever have. At the power levels you are running, that motor will outlast the rest of the bike. And as the theme of your post seems to be pointing at, it's not like that motor costs a lot of money.
3)The display, like the ones on the sine wave controllers, or a Cycle Analyst can be fun and informative for newbies, but are not really necessary. The only important thing to know is miles traveled and battery power consumed. Assuming the indicator on the battery is reasonably acurate, you just add a cycle computer to know the distance traveled. Or, if you are like most of us, you cover the same routes, you will soon know how far you can go before you can turn around. The best way to deal w/ "range anxiety" is to carry enough batt. capacity that it's never an issue.

I'm also keeping my eye out for bikes with full suspension and at least mounts for disc brakes. I'm going to look at a Mongoose tomorrow, and bringing my battery to see if it will fit in the downtube spot for the water bottle. I has vbrakes, but the front fork has disc mounts, so I could add one later. My braking situation makes me a little nervous right now (with these 45mpg hills around here), and the roads are just trashed coming out of winter. There are some roads where I'm swerving around potholes as much as I would on a trail.

Click to expand...

At those speeds, you should be nervous on what you are riding now. I don't see any lights, but as summer is nigh, you will likely add some and ride at night. Hit one of those potholes and you will be in a "World of Hurt".
Since you have not filled out your profile, we do not know where you are, but in most areas of the States, there is a vast supply of used mountain bikes and one of the best values in Ebiking are used mountain bikes.
As they have recently moved to larger and larger wheels, quality models that have 26" wheels have fallen out of favor. Add to this the fact that many mountain bikes are bought by people wanting to try out the sport, only to find that it is a lot of work and park them after 3 or 4 rides, make them a much better alternative to a Wally World bike that is going to fall apart in the first year. 26' whl.s or a slightly porky curb weight, things that turn off the serious trail guys, are not a concern for an ebike donor and this makes their loss, out gain.
I bought both of my bikes in mint condition for less than half of their MSRP. Both high quality w/ a good equipment selection and both w/ Fox shocks. Mountain bikes as far back as the early 2000's make good donor bikes. It could be, you could fit your batt. pack in frt. of the down tube and still not have the tire rub. Many MTX bikes have water bottle mounting lugs on the frt side of the down tube as well as in the tiangle. See my frt mounted batteries on my bikes linked below.

motomech said:

Except for #4, don't bother.
1)Those tires use tubes and sealant doesn't work well in tubes. Maybe if something like a thorn gets stuck in the tire/tube, it might seal the hole, but the majority of time, whatever made the hole will come out, or worse yet, the tube gets torn and it's over. Not to mention the unholy mess sealant makes when you take the tire off.
A much better approach is to change over to a premium "flat resistant" tire like the Schwalbes or WTB's and if there is one avail. and room to install it, an extra thick tube.
2)No need to fix a problem you don't have, nor will ever have. At the power levels you are running, that motor will outlast the rest of the bike. And as the theme of your post seems to be pointing at, it's not like that motor costs a lot of money.
3)The display, like the ones on the sine wave controllers, or a Cycle Analyst can be fun and informative for newbies, but are not really necessary. The only important thing to know is miles traveled and battery power consumed. Assuming the indicator on the battery is reasonably acurate, you just add a cycle computer to know the distance traveled. Or, if you are like most of us, you cover the same routes, you will soon know how far you can go before you can turn around. The best way to deal w/ "range anxiety" is to carry enough batt. capacity that it's never an issue.

Click to expand...

Thanks for that info. I know the tire fix debate rages on, I've seen some nice people get really heated with each other about it. I actually just finished doing it about 10 minutes ago, so I guess I'll find out how bad it gets :]

I may throw more battery at the motor eventually, but now that I've ridden at 52v, I don't think it'll be necessary. If I do, I'd have to get another controller anyway, and the statorade can hold out until then, I guess. It's really the hills that concern me, there are often times when I'm pedaling really hard even with full throttle.

I've been using Strava for a cycling computer, and right now the screen turns off but I have a USB port on the battery, so that'll give me everything but battery life anyway. I like the idea of having an odometer, but it's not by any means necessary.

motomech said:

At those speeds, you should be nervous on what you are riding now. I don't see any lights, but as summer is nigh, you will likely add some and ride at night. Hit one of those potholes and you will be in a "World of Hurt".
Since you have not filled out your profile, we do not know where you are, but in most areas of the States, there is a vast supply of used mountain bikes and one of the best values in Ebiking are used mountain bikes.
As they have recently moved to larger and larger wheels, quality models that have 26" wheels have fallen out of favor. Add to this the fact that many mountain bikes are bought by people wanting to try out the sport, only to find that it is a lot of work and park them after 3 or 4 rides, make them a much better alternative to a Wally World bike that is going to fall apart in the first year. 26' whl.s or a slightly porky curb weight, things that turn off the serious trail guys, are not a concern for an ebike donor and this makes their loss, out gain.
I bought both of my bikes in mint condition for less than half of their MSRP. Both high quality w/ a good equipment selection and both w/ Fox shocks. Mountain bikes as far back as the early 2000's make good donor bikes. It could be, you could fit your batt. pack in frt. of the down tube and still not have the tire rub. Many MTX bikes have water bottle mounting lugs on the frt side of the down tube as well as in the tiangle. See my frt mounted batteries on my bikes linked below.

Click to expand...

I picked up a pretty bright light that was well-recommended, I just haven't wired it up and installed it yet. Nor have I figured out how to power it off of this controller, as I'm going to have to step down the voltage somehow. Maybe off the USB port.

[EDIT] Actually, the light can take 12-80v, so that makes things easier...

I was watching Craigslist for used bikes, but it seems like the Facebook Marketplace has much lower prices. In a year or so I might pick up a $4-500 bike, but for now I'm looking for an el cheapo with suspension and at least the potential for disk brakes. I don't intend to ride trails, but smoothing out some of these horrible roads would make a huge difference.

Do you not run into issues with kicking up rocks/water onto the batteries with them mounted below the tube?

I've got some unknown connections from this controller that aren't documented at all. PAS, brakes, motor and battery are all accounted for. I've got these 4 left -- two are single blue wires, one is black and red (aux power? is it full power?), and one is black/red/white/yellow, which I'm assuming could be for a display?


[edit]Apparently, connecting the blue wires together limits the output.

Another 20 miles and 1604 feet of elevation changes (with a max of 1465 above sea level) today. Once again, the green “Full” light on the throttle would dip on big hill climbs by the end, but I’m getting over my range anxiety.

I also managed to set up Strava so I wasn’t overtaking the local records... I felt kinda bad about that.

Once you start doing something like this you learn that some of your assumptions were off. I’m starting to wonder if, with my riding style and location, a touring bike might make more sense. A shock seatpost and suspension stem could soften the roads around here. I don’t know, just thinking out loud.

I definitely want to get some suspension, though. And probably discs. I almost picked up a bike this afternoon, but decided to wait a few weeks and see if the price goes down — what I have right now does the job, even if it’s really only a 4-speed at the moment with a hard tail and no suspension fork.

Raketemensch said:

Once you start doing something like this you learn that some of your assumptions were off. I’m starting to wonder if, with my riding style and location, a touring bike might make more sense. A shock seatpost and suspension stem could soften the roads around here. I don’t know, just thinking out loud.

I definitely want to get some suspension, though. And probably discs. I almost picked up a bike this afternoon, but decided to wait a few weeks and see if the price goes down — what I have right now does the job, even if it’s really only a 4-speed at the moment with a hard tail and no suspension fork.

Click to expand...

I know that feeling. I started with the plan for a berserk downhill bike (of course ignoring that I'm almost 50) and found myself converting it halfway in a much better touring bike.
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=98811
I even ended up with a handle bar like they have on those grandma-style bikes from the netherlands

BUT, I'm very happy about my advanced suspension, as it gives a very safe and comfortable, yet fast ride.
Go for a suspension bike, I'd say.

btw. i really enjoyed your style of writing!

elias

elias said:

I know that feeling. I started with the plan for a berserk downhill bike (of course ignoring that I'm almost 50) and found myself converting it halfway in a much better touring bike.
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=98811
I even ended up with a handle bar like they have on those grandma-style bikes from the netherlands

BUT, I'm very happy about my advanced suspension, as it gives a very safe and comfortable, yet fast ride.
Go for a suspension bike, I'd say.

btw. i really enjoyed your style of writing!

elias

Click to expand...

Ha, thanks! That thing is beautiful.

I tend to get completely obsessive about new things like this (3D printing, drones, beer making, etc) and spend hours digging through forums and articles and building up huge lists of things that I want/need...

My wife’s been giving me That Look about this, and I’ve honestly been worried about it myself — I know I can go off the deep end with hobbies.

So last night I finally sat down to write a list of all the stuff I’d want to feel like I’m “there.” I was kind of amazed at how short it was:

1) Full suspension
2) Disc brakes
3) Regenerative braking

The regen brakes aren’t even a requirement, to be honest. I’m still not sure how well they’d pay off, but I *do* spend half my time rolling down huge-ass hills around here.

I made an offer on a K2 Attack about 45 minutes away, and I’m waiting to hear back. That alone would take care of 1 and 2.

I also found a RisunMotors 1500w controller with regen for $42, so I’m considering ordering that once I’ve got a better bike under me. I have to admit that I’ve been reeeeally tempted to pull the trigger on a couple of Mongoose FS bikes nearby, but I guess the Mongoose of 2019 just isn’t the incredible brand it was when I was riding BMX.

Raketemensch said:

I have to admit that I’ve been reeeeally tempted to pull the trigger on a couple of Mongoose FS bikes nearby, but I guess the Mongoose of 2019 just isn’t the incredible brand it was when I was riding BMX.

Click to expand...

You can say that again! Mongoose used to be an entirely respectable manufacturer, responsible for making influential and high quality bikes like the Moosegoose, Kos, and Mongoose ATB. Then it was bought by Pacific Cycle, a manufacturer best known for making bicycle-shaped objects that sell though big box stores. Today's Mongoose bicycle has fulfilled 100% of its design purpose as soon as somebody pays money for it and carries it away from the retailer. There's no grounds for complaining about the bike's shortcomings after that, because its job is finished.

Sad, really.

I just noticed that you also work on motorcycles. I've got a 1982 Silverwing in the shed that needs maybe a 2 days more work to be registered and ready to roll.

I thought it'd be nice to have a little 500 for tooling around all these country roads here, but after this weekend, I don't think I'll be needing it.

So, patience paid off -- I picked up a K2 Attack 1.0 today for $120. It's full suspension, with disc brakes, and, most importantly, has a frame style that will still allow me to use the UPP battery on the water bottle braze-ons:



I feel like a 12 year old getting a new bike. I was halfway to picking it up when I realized that I hadn't asked about the frame size -- I'm 6'4", but I figured worst-case I could just get an extended seatpost and a stem riser. As it turned out I didn't need to worry, it's actually even bigger than my Topanga.

I started digging around to see what I needed to do to add the brake disc to my hub, and couldn't find anything in google. After a few minutes I thought, "Well, maybe that's because it's too obvious to bother putting together a blog post about," and went out to look at the hub on my old bike in the garage -- yup, 6 screws, standard size, done and done.

I had started to transfer the disc to the new wheel:

...when I realized that a) I was out of blue Loctite, and b) it was Date Night.

Since being married is FAR nicer than having a homemade electric moped, I wisely stopped for the night.

This morning before work I test-mounted the wheel with the new bike, and it looks like I'll just need to make some minor adjustments to the caliper. I don't think the adjustments on these Tektros are as easy as the calipers in the video, but I guess I'll find out at lunchtime.

With a full rear suspension I can't really have a rear rack for the controller to mount on. I'm still trying to figure out where that will go, maybe a seat post tail rack? But then I lose that space for my tool kit and stuff. It was hanging in a bag on the other bike, but then it's not getting enough cooling wind. I'm also going to shoe-goo a piece cut from an old mouse pad to the underside of the battery mount to stop the vibration and noise there. It should be lessened a lot from the hardtail, but whatever I can do to protect the battery is good, right?

Nice score on the bike!, not the most travel but its technically full suspension! Good triangle room...likely need to invest in a good shock some day. My GT avalanche which was my first ebike build also came with a WTB seat I love those things

edit I noticed you are 6'4" that same as me, that frame would be too small for me by the looks of it, you may need to extend the seat post and stem to accommodate you

skeetab5780 said:

Nice score on the bike!, not the most travel but its technically full suspension! Good triangle room...likely need to invest in a good shock some day. My GT avalanche which was my first ebike build also came with a WTB seat I love those things

edit I noticed you are 6'4" that same as me, that frame would be too small for me by the looks of it, you may need to extend the seat post and stem to accommodate you

Click to expand...

Thanks! The seat is currently all the way down, so there's lots of room for raising it. I'm looking at shocks, but this one will do for a while, I think. I'm not going to be trail riding, the roughest stuff will be dirt roads, or even lots of the paved roads around here are as bad as dirt roads. I'm going to give the seat a few weeks, but I also have one I love on my current bike, so there'll eventually be a shoot out. Or a butt-out. Or something.

The disc is mounted, the caliper is set, the derailleur is in good shape, and I pedaled it around for a bit today to get a feel for it. I bought it from a... heavier guy, so the preload's all cranked up and it feels pretty good.

I used E6000 to glue a 4" length of plastic tubing (split open) under the battery mount because I don't want it vibrating, since I couldn't find an old mouse pad. I have the mount up as far as it will go, but I am going to need to cut 2-3mm off of tabs on the slide lock things on the battery mount, as it *just* barely doesn't fit as is. Or maybe I'll just drill out the mounts a little bit further so as not to weaken the battery's staying ability. That'll be tomorrow.

The grips on the new bike will be easy enough to get off, but I installed the grips that came with the kit on the old bike, and they're crappy hard plastic and will be interesting to remove. There are no end-caps, so I'm hoping to get some vice-grips locked onto the ends and just twist them off. I think on the new bike, which has locking grips, I'm going to just take off the right-hand one, slide the twist throttle on, then cut down the grip enough to account for the twist throttle and see how that works, rather than use the crappy plastic things.

I'm considering mounting the controller to the underside of the frame, using the battery mount.

Then it's just plugging in a few things and she's off for a test run.

If you raise the seat as much as you can, it should be possible to fit a seatpost rack and have room for your bag AFAICT. Seems advisable to have the controller "out in the air" and not susceptible to road debris.

About your unused connectors on your controller:
I think the housing with black and read can be just full voltage out for alarm. Just measure it. If you want, you can probably use it for the lights. The other with four wires can be for alarm too, or maby for a display as you said.
The two blue can be self learn, cruise control, or maby less power or something like that.

You can try to connect them together with the wheel in the air, if it spins it is self learn :wink:
If you have the brakes connected to the controller, you can try it on the road, if it is cruice it will keep your speed after you have kept it for a few seconds.
If it is limited power, you will notice..

You may very well have regen in the controller, the best thing is to open it up and look at the treads about different controllers.
I have a no name controller that turned out to be the same as the newer greentime controllers. After a little soldering I had powerful regen that gave 30A of regen at higher speeds.

j bjork said:

You may very well have regen in the controller, the best thing is to open it up and look at the treads about different controllers.
I have a no name controller that turned out to be the same as the newer greentime controllers. After a little soldering I had powerful regen that gave 30A of regen at higher speeds.

Click to expand...

Nice, thanks, I'm hoping to do that soon. The blue wires definitely limit the power when connected, and I'll hit the red/black with a voltmeter this weekend.

This is the 3rd Bjork reference I've run into so far today, I need to go put Homogenic on...

Meanwhile, it's all somewhat buttoned up for the moment, enough to ride, anyway:

I drilled out the slots on the battery mount for the braze-ons/water bottle to be able to slide it up further, and that worked out really well. I really wish I could turn it around so that the battery was mounted in the intended direction, as it would make the battery wiring much easier when I get the tail rack for the controller (which should be arriving next week, $18), but I'll live with this.

The wires are really packed in there and unprotected right now, and the controller is just cable-tied with some protection (and padding) to the top bar, and there's really nothing protecting the wiring right now. It's very much just rigged-up, but it's still kind of amazing how much I was able to fit into the triangle of a full-suspension bike.

So I took it out for a spin. The suspension is awesome. I mean, it's probably not the best compared to some people's rigs, but for riding rough pavement the difference is yuge. And the brakes are great, although I can tell already that I'm going to go through pads...

The gearing is wonk, though. I couldn't find a metric tape measure at the time, so by transmuting inches I think the largest front sprocket is 175-180mm? The one on my old bike seems to be 200mm.

I'd love to get ahold of something even bigger, though. There are times on a lot of downhill stretches around here, not even really steep ones, when I wish I had more gearing to be able to pedal more. I guess this thing is geared for grunt and not speed, but wow. I'm not sure how big they can get, so I'm going to do some digging around tonight. It definitely won't work out this way, even rolling uphill here with the slightest of throttle my feet are just spinning without engaging.

Still though, this thing rides beautifully otherwise and I'm very happy with the purchase.

Alright, apparently they're not measured in diameter, but in teeth. This one is only 42T, I definitely need more.

The K2 has a Suntour XCC-150 crankset, and the chainring is riveted, so I'm going to need a new crankset, not just a chainring.

This K2 has a 42T, and my old Diamondback had a 48T, and I still wanted more sometimes, so I'm going to try to find a 50T with a square taper and internal BB.

I took it out for a quick 9mile ride before dinner, and it's very rideable, but the gearing is really lacking. I also definitely need to raise the seat, and I have to move the right-hand controls inward a little, as the shifter is hitting against the throttle.

The WTB seat is pretty nice, but my bony ass misses my cheapo plushie.

My youngest can now ride my wife's old Giant MTB, we went for a quick ride this afternoon to test that theory, so I think it's going to get electrified as well, then anyone in my family can come on rides with me.

This K2 has a 42T, and my old Diamondback had a 48T, and I still wanted more sometimes, so I'm going to try to find a 50T with a square taper and internal BB.

Click to expand...

Pretty sure a 50T big chainring will hit on the chain stay and even a 48 may not have enough room. You might use a wider bottom bracket to add clearance, but I'm not sure a crappy square taper would be the way to go.
If you can get a 46 T chainring on it and add an Enoch DNP free whl. w/ an 11T sm. gear, you will have enough geraring to pedal along above 20MPH.
Sometimes buying a cheap bike ends up costing more than a quality used bike.

I pedal along at 20mph easily with 48/14 gearing on a 700c wheel-- with long 196mm cranks. If you can get the cruise speed you want without using an 11t sprocket, do it. Your chain will benefit from using the largest small sprocket that works.

Thanks for the advice, everyone. The 48T on my old bike (the diamondback I started with above) just about did the job, and I could live with that.

I found a decent Shimano crankset that should work and get me back to 48T with a replaceable chainring. That will at least get me back to where I was, and make the 50T a reasonably inexpensive experiment later.

I’ll measure the chain stay clearance before ordering, tho. I’m also wondering if the cranks from my Topanga would work, at least to see if 48T will fit. I’ll have to dig around and see if they’re square too.

I know people say that you have to pour money in when you start with a cheap bike, but I don’t think that’s a “cheap bike” thing — I think people pour money into expensive bikes, too.

I’m also going to pick up the park tool crank puller as well, it’s relatively cheap and people seem to rave about it.

It looks like the swingarm on this bike was designed to allow a larger chainring, as I have another 4-5mm before rubbing would occur. It looks like a 42T chainring is 110mm, although now I'm not sure how that works out. So far googling has just become more confusing, but I only put maybe 10-15 minutes into it.

Meanwhile, this bike originally had an 8-gear cassette, but I just dropped the 7-gear hub wheel in place when I got it. I've just been very careful not to switch to 8th gear.

That 8th gear is an 11t, which is way smaller than my smallest gear right now, so it should help a lot with my gearing issue.

My issue now is that I've never swapped cassettes before, and I'm not sure if I can swap these, or which tool I should grab from Park, since there appear to be multiple types.

This is the original on the bike:


And this is the one on the hub motor:


To my amateur eye these look pretty standard, 12 splines, and I should be able to swap them with this tool:

https://smile.amazon.com/Park-Tool-FR-5-2GT-Cassette-Lockring/dp/B06ZYFVDJQ/ref=sr_1_7?keywords=park+tool+cassette&qid=1558975951&s=gateway&sr=8-7

...but I also have a habit of assuming these things, then ordering this from Amazon that won't work in my particular case for :reasons:.

It looks like your hub motor uses a freewheel and not a cassette. You can't swap them.

RunForTheHills said:

It looks like your hub motor uses a freewheel and not a cassette. You can't swap them.

Click to expand...

Ah, lockring vs non-lockring is how you can tell. Thanks! TIL....

This was quite helpful to understand the difference:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qcgz3-XyNkI

I have 8-speed shifters on this bike, but I'm still a little nervous about whether I can cram an 8-speed freewheel in there, like this guy:

https://smile.amazon.com/DNP-Epoch-Freewheel-Nickel-Plated/dp/B007A8RS7I/ref=sr_1_3?keywords=7+speed+freewheel+11t&qid=1558982771&s=gateway&sr=8-3

It'd be nice to be able to use all 8, and to get down to 11t.