Car replacement E-bike that fits me

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ZeroEm   100 W

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Car replacement E-bike that fits me

Post by ZeroEm » Jun 04 2019 6:20pm

I like learning and need or want transportation for store runs and trips out to the country side.
I want to see if building e bike will do this for me. My back is gone, 6’2” and 260lbs. I treat things better if time is invested.
Around yr 2000 I went to school and work on a bicycle around 15 to 30 miles daily for 2 yrs until bike was stolen. It was really good for me. Want to try it again and learn about E bikes.
Last eight years been limited riding a 26” bike I bought for $5.
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6 months ago bought a new box store damaged 29er.
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I like that bike but got the E bike bug. I helped my brother who rides a bike every where, put an e bike kit on his bike.
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BC 36V 500w E-bike kit

That is when I joined ES and ordered a full suspension, dual disk brake 29er and single wheel trailer.
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My mother rides bikes and I need some practice with e bikes, found a Schwinn Meridian on sale and ordered parts from Grin Tech and putting together pas trike for mom. Still needs flag and rear light.
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Before
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After

Bafang Mg311 standard 26” built front wheel
C4820-GR Higo
thumb throttle
24 pas sensor
CA 3
48V 14AH encased battery

One block or 1/10th of a mile on an e bike so far seems nice.
I don’t know much about good bikes vs lesser bikes so making my share of mistakes.
I did not want to build the 29er no rear suspension or disc brakes and load <=300lbs.
So I ordered the XP Pro, but after some reading on ES I wonder if it would even hold up.
ES-XP.jpg
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The plan is:
XP Pro AWD
203mm front rotor, 180mm rear rotor
2 x 1500w leaf-motors 7T slow
2 x 29” Alex 24 rims
74mm Sapim Strong 13-14g Butter Spokes
2 x Grins C7240-GR controllers
2 x 72V 25AH Ultra light battery packs from Cali bike
CA3-DP with shunt for two batteries.
4 TA from Grin 2 front and 2 rear.
Trailer maybe back rack.

Work is on going, lacing my own rims, first spokes were shorter than I like, longer ones are on the way.
Working on the spacing and TA for the motors.
While I am finishing the Meridian trike and working on the XP Pro. I ordered “Performer JC-26-X Recumbent trike” to build and see if my back likes it better. The goal is for me to find something that lets me peddle as much as I can but do the rest with out me being in unreasonable pain.

Comments and constructive criticism welcome.
The journey is more important than the destination!
2013 Nissan Leaf S 8 bars 4.9 miles/Kw

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neptronix   100 GW

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Re: Car replacement E-bike that fits me

Post by neptronix » Jun 04 2019 6:35pm

Not sure where you'd fit two 72v 25ah batteries on any bike chassis unless we are talking about a cargo bike. You're probably talking about over 50lbs of battery combined.

Watch out for calibike as they often lie about specs and substitute 'telsa cells' for low quality no name Chinese cells in a lot of, if not all of their packs. They also quote peak power as continuous power in their motors. Best to avoid companies with practices like that.

Dual 7T leaf motors on 72v is a very strange choice because on 72v you can never hit the top speed that one motor is capable of on it's own. Might only be good for 30mph... you can do that speed with a single 8lbs geared hub.

I hit 60mph on a 4T leaf using 72v... not much need for two of them!

BTW, a high powered motor on a front suspension fork is asking for serious injury.. I would not run over 500w on one.. the fork dropouts are not designed with taking any force in mind, other than say, the 25-33% of your body weight that bounces up and down on them.

Torque arms are of course a great idea!

You have a lot to learn, but hang in there.. you will get it in time.
Efficiency is everything :bolt:

My first major build: 1.6kW 8T MAC motor on a Trek 4500.
The new all-arounder: Leafmotor 1500w @ 4kW on a Turner O2 full suspension.
The monster scooter: 20" eZee on a Cannondale Semi Recumbent.
Whipper-snapper: ? on a lightweight BikeE Semi Recumbent

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ZeroEm   100 W

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Re: Car replacement E-bike that fits me

Post by ZeroEm » Jun 05 2019 12:07am

Thank you neptronix, the batteries are a problem in more than one way. Calibike talked me into them, wanted 52v. Don’t want to bash any company, Starting wondering about them when they sent me an email with tracking for these batteries, but the tracking was for a battery I had already received.

A cargo bike is what I need, but setting up straight will not work for me sad to say.
I need to keep the weight off of my back so leaning on the front leaves me pain free.

I started out with:
me and the bike will be 300lbs
now add motors batteries and trailer.
Not flat here hills nothing extreme.
Many days over 100F (50+)

Wanted the bike to pull 400-500lbs up a hill around 20-25mph in 105F with out over heating.
I have no interest in going 40mph on a bicycle at this time but I would like to have a range of 75 miles at 20-30mph.
So the thinking was two motors lose heat faster, geared hubs pulling over 300lbs wear out gears fast.

I have started to realize the over kill part and I may not complete this build. Do to mounting batteries, weak front forks, needing rear custom TP with trailer hitch.

I am in no hurry and will try a recumbent trike before I go to far.

This is why I decided to post now and hear the feed back.
The journey is more important than the destination!
2013 Nissan Leaf S 8 bars 4.9 miles/Kw

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Re: Car replacement E-bike that fits me

Post by neptronix » Jun 05 2019 10:45am

Right on. Sorry to crush your dreams but.... yeah :lol:

However, there is a situation where you can pull off what you're looking for with one motor. This is with a 45mm wide DD from MXUS, with statorade.
2019-06-05 09_16_05-Motor Simulator - Tools - Brave.png
https://www.ebikes.ca/tools/simulator.h ... t=B4823_AC

Mind you.. this is only going to work with a 20" wheel because of the power density advantage afforded to you by the small wheel and high RPM combo..

75 miles at 20-30mph is very doable and won't require 3.6kwhrs like you suspected ;)
Efficiency is everything :bolt:

My first major build: 1.6kW 8T MAC motor on a Trek 4500.
The new all-arounder: Leafmotor 1500w @ 4kW on a Turner O2 full suspension.
The monster scooter: 20" eZee on a Cannondale Semi Recumbent.
Whipper-snapper: ? on a lightweight BikeE Semi Recumbent

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ZeroEm   100 W

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Re: Car replacement E-bike that fits me

Post by ZeroEm » Jun 06 2019 4:46pm

Thank you for the chart, you got me over there to grins and I was comparing that motor to here xo DD45 motor.
I got to thinking on a recumbent I will not need as much and thinking about putting the rear black lighting on the trike and seeing what it will do, with a tempter sensor with roll back.

My batteries came in, they are bigger in person and the frame seems smaller so I will wait on that project and focus on the trike for now and see how it feels.
The journey is more important than the destination!
2013 Nissan Leaf S 8 bars 4.9 miles/Kw

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ZeroEm   100 W

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Re: Car replacement E-bike that fits me

Post by ZeroEm » Jun 09 2019 10:43pm

Recumbent trike arrived.
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put it together the next morning.
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did a short ride to check out steering, did not toe it in. Wheels are almost straight so will watch tire wear and adjust it toward toein over time.
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next morning put a few miles on it easy on my back. This may be the one that fits my needs.
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The rear frame is steel and wide, one of grins axel motors would fit nice here but going to see how the rear leaf motor fits.
need to put in tempter sensor and lace the motor in a rim.
now I need a new rim or think about using the one on the trike.
the trike rims had reinforced eyelets will research the rim then order spokes and maybe another rim.
I would like a fatter tire but the frame really narrows. need to spend some time measuring.
side01.jpg
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not a good pic but the tire can not be much taller.
The journey is more important than the destination!
2013 Nissan Leaf S 8 bars 4.9 miles/Kw

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Re: Car replacement E-bike that fits me

Post by Chalo » Jun 09 2019 10:54pm

Given that those are toe clips, not heel straps, do be conscious of the possibility of crippling yourself by running over your own legs. It's probably more likely than the battery fires that have us all spooked.

If there's no rear brake, you can use a smaller diameter wheel with a fatter tire.
This is to express my gratitude to Justin of Grin Technologies for his extraordinary measures to save this forum for the benefit of all.

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Re: Car replacement E-bike that fits me

Post by neptronix » Jun 10 2019 12:58am

Hmm, i wonder how strong that rear suspension is.. if it'd be twisty, etc with a big hub. How much power are you looking to push?

One of the smaller 30mm diameter leafmotors or MXUS 3004's would be hot stuff. A larger motor isn't necessary unless you want to go faster than say, 45mph, or have mondo mountains to climb.

I wasn't aware of that brand. Damn cheap for a rear suspension recumbent!
https://www.performercycles.com/recumbe ... uspension/
Efficiency is everything :bolt:

My first major build: 1.6kW 8T MAC motor on a Trek 4500.
The new all-arounder: Leafmotor 1500w @ 4kW on a Turner O2 full suspension.
The monster scooter: 20" eZee on a Cannondale Semi Recumbent.
Whipper-snapper: ? on a lightweight BikeE Semi Recumbent

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ZeroEm   100 W

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Re: Car replacement E-bike that fits me

Post by ZeroEm » Jun 10 2019 10:53am

I have a rear leaf motor, want to use the CA3 to keep power limited. it feels light weight bet if kept down under kw it will be all that is needed. Would like a more robust tire tube. could have clamp torque plates welded on to extend it a few inches or smaller wheel.
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2013 Nissan Leaf S 8 bars 4.9 miles/Kw

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www.recumbents.com   10 kW

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Re: Car replacement E-bike that fits me

Post by www.recumbents.com » Jun 10 2019 10:53am

Performer is a good brand. The folks there are easy to work with and will customize the bike for you. The have a lot of nice 2 wheel models too.

Warren

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ZeroEm   100 W

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Re: Car replacement E-bike that fits me

Post by ZeroEm » Jun 10 2019 11:02am

To be honest I was not expecting much for the price I paid, so far the only thing I don't like is the peddles screw in the wrong way, they will screw out if lose. They sent extra tubes, clips for the clipless and extra pieces for cables, anyway a box of extras.
The journey is more important than the destination!
2013 Nissan Leaf S 8 bars 4.9 miles/Kw

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ZeroEm   100 W

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Re: Car replacement E-bike that fits me

Post by ZeroEm » Jun 29 2019 2:00pm

Putting the rear leaf motor on the Blue Trike. Today I am wiring it up and found a 6th (white) small wire coming out of the motor.
I did not order a tempter sensor (did not know to do so then) the front LeafMotor did not have a white wire. Have read most of the Leaf Motor thread and don't remember anyone talking about wire colors.
The journey is more important than the destination!
2013 Nissan Leaf S 8 bars 4.9 miles/Kw

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ZeroEm   100 W

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Re: Car replacement E-bike that fits me

Post by ZeroEm » Jul 15 2019 3:44pm

Waiting on a data cable for my camera, then I will post some pictures of the trike.
Have the rear leafmotor running put 80km on it with the big battery on the rack, really sways around back there.
decided to move the battery between the front wheels and under my legs. Added three controls, regen, speed limits and levels of power. have only ran the motor at 1700w and up to 44km. I will see how fast it goes after second torque is bolted down. This motor is a 7T it was for my 29er at 72V.

I have a 5T Edge motor in the mail and swap motors at some point. We have a green way I ride and 16 - 24km is fast enough, but between the greenway and home I like to do the speed limit 32km.

after all the small Items are taken care of I will take it out of town. I have no pain riding this bike and love it have put 60 miles on it in a week that is more than 10yrs worth on my old bike.
The journey is more important than the destination!
2013 Nissan Leaf S 8 bars 4.9 miles/Kw

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ZeroEm   100 W

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Re: Car replacement E-bike that fits me

Post by ZeroEm » Jul 20 2019 11:17pm

B_Battery.png
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Battery on back rack with brown paper covering it!
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Before I moved battery between front wheels.

I now have over a 160 km on the bike. had to oil front bearing and chain.
Have been playing with toein but decided on no toein or out and watch the wear.
Now to get rid of the shimming. Front wheels inner spokes were tighter than the outer spokes I added tension to the outer spokes, now all spokes are tight. (did not build the front wheels but they are good, just a few spokes not tight)
Added more compression to the head bearings. This made it better if not fixed the problem. Noticed the front tires do not seat to the rims perfectly do not know if anyone worries about this or not?
Drove out of town this morning did not go above 35km, will start taking longer drives and when I trust the bike I will see how fast this 7T in a 26" will go, should be between 53-63km. getting 25w/mile will go back to km in my CA and start watching in KM.
The journey is more important than the destination!
2013 Nissan Leaf S 8 bars 4.9 miles/Kw

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ZeroEm   100 W

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Re: Car replacement E-bike that fits me

Post by ZeroEm » Jul 22 2019 10:35pm

This is the bike for me, can ride it until i'm tired with no back pain. The frame feels lite and flexible so worried that it will not last under my weight so I will lose some weight.
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Battery is in the bag, setting on a plexiglass tray with custom aluminum mounts/supports
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Have a switch to add reverse but worry that if shifter is moved while backing up it will damage the chain and components.
Battery is 72V 25ah and I have two but only one is mounted and does not interfere with peddling. The second battery can be put in the bag and will interfere with peddling. But I have a trailer with both hope I can make it to the Gulf coast and back, little over 300 miles. small solar would ensure that or a charge during the trip. Had this trike up to 50km tonight fast enough, longer road it might do 55km. Max amps was 29 have it set at 36 amps max and 2250 watts max battery peak amps 50-70.
Done with this bike for now going to get the xp pro ready to pull trailers, it will be my truck so I will not ride it much and everyone needs a back up bike.
later I will put the 5T Edge motor on the performer, thinking about 24" wheel.
The journey is more important than the destination!
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Re: Car replacement E-bike that fits me

Post by neptronix » Jul 23 2019 12:10am

Looks like a fairly quick and fun ride. But i bet you want more speed, don't you..

Next up... fairings? :)
Efficiency is everything :bolt:

My first major build: 1.6kW 8T MAC motor on a Trek 4500.
The new all-arounder: Leafmotor 1500w @ 4kW on a Turner O2 full suspension.
The monster scooter: 20" eZee on a Cannondale Semi Recumbent.
Whipper-snapper: ? on a lightweight BikeE Semi Recumbent

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Re: Car replacement E-bike that fits me

Post by amberwolf » Jul 23 2019 12:56am

ZeroEm wrote:
Jul 22 2019 10:35pm
Have a switch to add reverse but worry that if shifter is moved while backing up it will damage the chain and components.
Well, the simple fix to that is not to move the shifter. ;)

At one time I had a derailment problem at the in-frame IGH input sprocket on the SB Cruiser trike, but only in reverse, so I had jams and such whenever I even manually backed up the trike. Fixing that means that now I can backup with or without the motor just fine. I never use it for more than a few feet at a time, but when I do it's sure handy. ;)

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Re: Car replacement E-bike that fits me

Post by ZeroEm » Jul 23 2019 11:21pm

by neptronix » Jul 23 2019 12:10am
Looks like a fairly quick and fun ride. But i bet you want more speed, don't you..

Next up... fairings?
Been looking for a bigger ring gear, it has a 50T. I would like to drop the smallest ring and add up to a 60T. I can not peddle past 18 mph and it will do 30 mph. Spend most of my time between 8 and 15 but when leaving town want to run 20-25 mph. Have been thinking of a tail fairing maybe small solar canopy. What I have read it will give the most if that works out then.
The journey is more important than the destination!
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ZeroEm   100 W

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Re: Car replacement E-bike that fits me

Post by ZeroEm » Jul 23 2019 11:27pm

by amberwolf » Jul 23 2019 12:56am
Well, the simple fix to that is not to move the shifter.
Your right :lol:
Laying back does not leave me with much foot traction, don't back up more than a couple feet. But what about bragging rights? 8) "My bike has reverse!"
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ZeroEm   100 W

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Re: Car replacement E-bike that fits me

Post by ZeroEm » Jul 23 2019 11:42pm

Chalo » Jun 09 2019 10:54pm
Given that those are toe clips, not heel straps, do be conscious of the possibility of crippling yourself by running over your own legs. It's probably more likely than the battery fires that have us all spooked.

If there's no rear brake, you can use a smaller diameter wheel with a fatter tire]
Set up variable regen, so electric rear brakes. Would like to add small rear disc for a parking break. the rear forks really taper in so not sure if a 140 would not rub the forks.
I have clip on shoes and they work but yes was worried about breaking my legs but have forgot about it until you brought is up. :o You know I am just south of you 75 miles if you are still in Austin? maybe some year I will ride up there if I get in shape to do some thing like that. Would like to ride to Corpus Christi. Worried about break downs still can not walk that far. My trike has more range than my car. :oops:
The journey is more important than the destination!
2013 Nissan Leaf S 8 bars 4.9 miles/Kw

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Re: Car replacement E-bike that fits me

Post by amberwolf » Jul 24 2019 2:21am

ZeroEm wrote:
Jul 23 2019 11:42pm
Would like to add small rear disc for a parking break.
You can use the handbrake from a wheelchair. I did this on SB Cruiser's rear wheels, just clamping the brake module to the trike frame at the upper right corner of the wheelwell in this pic, where I can reach it from the seat:

Image

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Re: Car replacement E-bike that fits me

Post by ZeroEm » Jul 24 2019 4:41pm

[quoteby amberwolf » Jul 24 2019 2:21am
You can use the handbrake from a wheelchair. I did this on SB Cruiser's rear wheels, just clamping the brake module to the trike frame at the upper right corner of the wheelwell in this pic, where I can reach it from the seat:]
That's it thanks, need two one for my mothers trike and one for me.
Went to the bank across town 30 km. about ready to go carless just need to get the trailers and hitches lined out.
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Re: Car replacement E-bike that fits me

Post by ZeroEm » Aug 02 2019 12:41am

BlESPanner.jpg
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bought the smallest cheap bags for the back don't want to carry too much weight on that rack it was coming lose from carrying the battery back there.
BLESOverloaded.jpg
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Thought everyone would like to see what a load this little bike is under.
My two wheel trailer arrived, it should haul enough for me to go shopping now.
Need to make a type of torque arm that extends out back enough to mount my trailer hitches.
Next going to see if I can mount my batteries under the bike in a custom box, if need be put 24" wheels on the front but that depends on if it will throw my wheel aliment off to much.
Have not had time to hook up reverse yet.
Only have driven my car once in the last two weeks, have used the bike for everything.
The journey is more important than the destination!
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Re: Car replacement E-bike that fits me

Post by neptronix » Aug 02 2019 10:32am

Cool :thumb:

You're a stoic for riding in Texas heat this time of year.
I've found that the faster speeds a recumbent travels at makes for much more comfortable riding in the heat though, as long as temps are below 90F :thumb:

I think significantly larger front wheels might tilt you back too much and affect visibility. If you want more bump compliance, maybe a thicc 20" tire would be just the ticket. Of all motorcycle/scooter tires out there, the hutchinson spherus would probably hit the nail on the head; they come in 16 x 2.25", which in bike size is 20 x 2.25.

This is the problem with the faster speeds these motors allow us to travel at. Full suspension goes from being a nicety to a requirement.

And yes, mounting batteries on recumbents is a huge pain in the ass. Would like to see what solution you come up with.
Efficiency is everything :bolt:

My first major build: 1.6kW 8T MAC motor on a Trek 4500.
The new all-arounder: Leafmotor 1500w @ 4kW on a Turner O2 full suspension.
The monster scooter: 20" eZee on a Cannondale Semi Recumbent.
Whipper-snapper: ? on a lightweight BikeE Semi Recumbent

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Re: Car replacement E-bike that fits me

Post by ZeroEm » Aug 02 2019 1:22pm

by neptronix » Aug 02 2019 10:32am
Cool

You're a stoic for riding in Texas heat this time of year.
I've found that the faster speeds a recumbent travels at makes for much more comfortable riding in the heat though, as long as temps are below 90F

I think significantly larger front wheels might tilt you back too much and affect visibility. If you want more bump compliance, maybe a thicc 20" tire would be just the ticket. Of all motorcycle/scooter tires out there, the hutchinson spherus would probably hit the nail on the head; they come in 16 x 2.25", which in bike size is 20 x 2.25.

This is the problem with the faster speeds these motors allow us to travel at. Full suspension goes from being a nicety to a requirement.

And yes, mounting batteries on recumbents is a huge pain in the ass. Would like to see what solution you come up with.
Going to do a mock up for a "two battery" box under bike, between front wheels but set toward rear. (taller front tires to give box more room) if not some build racks below seat on each side of frame but it would be wide. each battery is 203mm X 431mm. One battery is now in the bag between my legs. Does not bother when turning, when peddling back of my legs just touch the top. But later I will want to carry both. Thought about caring the second in a trailer and just swapping them out. really don't need more power last time I looked was using 10w/km. I think the bike needs more camber that was another reason for taller tires, thought about getting a 24" for the back but you tried it and did not help much. In month or so going to put the edge motor in the back wheel and run it on this bike it should do 70-80 kph. (reason for 24" rear wheel)

My next trike should be full suspension but that is a ways off and don't have the money for it so I will ride slow. 25-50 kph
The journey is more important than the destination!
2013 Nissan Leaf S 8 bars 4.9 miles/Kw

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