Mongoose Envoy Cargo BBSHD Jumbo Shark

Goal was to build a bike capable of completing this route starting and ending at the top of a 400 foot hill while carrying a cargo load of groceries without arriving sweaty and to be able to haul a 35 pound dog without using a trailer. It would be locked in front of a market or a park bike rack for an hour or so regularly and needed to survive the Seattle rainy season.



I considered modifying my old mountain bike. It wasn't up to the cargo task. Then I went over to Radpower Bikes in Seattle for some test drives. The geared hub models would climb a hill on the test route similar to my commute but they were all fat tire models with smaller cargo capacity. The 72lb Radwagon with a DD hub wouldn't go up the hill. I thought a 20" wheel model like Xtracycle or Sweet Curry with a DD hub added might work but $2200 seems to be some kind of arbitrary magic number for these folks which would put the whole bike into the same price category as a turnkey Bosch from a dealer. Bike Friday were playing hard-to-get with the haul-a-day. The Tern at $4-$5K was not something I'd want to street park.

Then, the $750 Mongoose Envoy became available in the US. Ordered it and got a nicely packed bike within a week. Specs as shipped were different than on Mongoose web site. 180mm front brake was nice. Lots of lugs on the rack and fender. Comes in at just over 40lbs with the lower rack assembly and cargo bags removed. Added a BBSHD, 48v Jumbo Shark, Lekkie 42T chainring and some eBay 48v lights for a total cost of $2100.



Worked out well. Climbs a half mile of 12% grade with the dog on the back at 10mph without hesitation. Max speed on the flat with moderate pedaling is 28mph. Tucking my head and arms close to the bars without pedaling actually goes faster at 30mph. And with the battery removed I feel comfortable leaving this for a few hours locked on a city street.

BBSHD Install notes for the Envoy:
- Drilled a hole in the down tube to re-route the rear shifter cable from below to above the BB
- Had to extend the speed sensor by patching in 6" of new wire
- The BB is 73mm and fits the 68mm BBSHD well without shims/spacers. Perfectly centered cranks.
- Chainline with either Lekkie 42T or stock steel 46T is perfect. Luna 42T will rub tire.
- Empty front shifter frame cable routing leaves a good spot for lighting wires
- Added an 8sp rear shifter to use the Bafang ebrake levers and removed existing shifter/levers

Next step is to make some better panniers and add a proper switch for the lights.

Got the sewing machine out and mad panniers / cargo slings. Not sure this will work as well as I thought. Aluminum panniers of the sort used on touring motorcycles may be a better choice. Got to figure out how to bend some sheet metal now.

While working on the lights with the battery off, learned that the motor retains quite a charge even when un-powered. Wow! Hope I didn't hurt anything. The charger connector sparks when plugging it into the battery also. Not sure if that is normal.

Hyak said:

While working on the lights with the battery off, learned that the motor retains quite a charge even when un-powered. Wow! Hope I didn't hurt anything. The charger connector sparks when plugging it into the battery also. Not sure if that is normal.

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Looks great, and I bet it's a pretty smooth ride.

I had something similar happen this weekend when soldering some (battery voltage level) wires for my lighting. Battery was disconnected, but residual charge from the controller's capacitors was still present. Big arc, and my fingernails was all black from the vaporized insulation, but no injuries.

The sparking is normal, but you can buy anti-spark connectors if it bothers you.

How's this setup working out? I'm thinking about a frame swap on my e commuter, and the Envoy looks like a good option.

Do you wish you had front suspension?

I'd been waiting for someone to do this exact build, thank you! As soon as I saw the Mongoose Envoy on KevCentral's YouTube channel I thought, "What a perfect bike for a BBSHD." Your bike is beautiful, and your install looks super clean.... I'm definitely following this post, don't want to miss updates. Thanks again for posting.

Hyak said:

Got the sewing machine out and mad panniers / cargo slings. Not sure this will work as well as I thought. Aluminum panniers of the sort used on touring motorcycles may be a better choice. Got to figure out how to bend some sheet metal now.

While working on the lights with the battery off, learned that the motor retains quite a charge even when un-powered. Wow! Hope I didn't hurt anything. The charger connector sparks when plugging it into the battery also. Not sure if that is normal.

kre.JPG

Click to expand...

if I plug the charger in and its turned on before plugging it into the battery, no more spark

How's it working out? Very well..

Do I wish I had front suspension? Definitely not. The 2.35" tires are plenty cushy for the road and path. I ride full rigid MTB or a drop bar cross bike on the local trails, so am adapted to it. The loaded longtail Envoy does return a solid thump jumping curbs due to inability to unweight the rear tire, but I try to avoid that.

Changes since last post are some 3D printed phone and light mounts. Plus added a laser cut and engraved rear deck. The most useful addition was drilling out a small hole next to the button that turns on the display light and filling it with glow paint so I can find the proper button in the dark.

It's been raining for months non-stop here in the Pacific Northwest, so there's only 400 miles logged since purchase. Had 1 flat tire at speed. Went through 1 long and completely soaking rain storm. Had 1 fully drained battery with 400 feet of 12% grade yet to climb and was able to stay in the saddle grinding it up without too much effort. With temperatures in the forties F the range seems to be reduced 20% or more. I hope it will recover in the spring. Still runs fine and have had no motor or drive-train issues.

With some practice hitting the motor's efficiency sweet spots it goes faster than I thought. Over 40mph on the flat with aggressive pedaling. 35 no pedal in a tuck. 15 up my big hill. It comes with 11-34 in the rear and I reduced from stock 46 in the front to a 42, but if I didn't have the big hill to climb, 46 would be just right.

A few notes on the Envoy discovered late. It's great to have so many mounting lugs all over. Several of them were crudely cut from the factory and just spun on first removal. They are in place now only due to liberal application of thread-lock. The crank arm threads were also crudely cut. One was so loose I had to replaced it. The brake hardware is roughly made which makes it time consuming to adjust. Once adjusted it works fine with very good although squeally stopping power. Both panniers have broken with the same failure. The sewn threads on mounting straps unraveled. Lost one load due to this and have now discarded both. Love the bars, grips and saddle.

Nice looking E-Bike, also waiting for someone to build one.

Nice build! In November 2019, I converted my Envoy to electric with a Bafang 500W motor. And soon will be crossing 500 miles ridden.

I went with a hub motor to maintain the factory setup. The factory 3x8 drive-train is geared like an 18 wheeler. For exercise (and to generate body-heat in these winter months), at times I ride the bike powerless. On the flats you barely notice the extra weight of the motor and battery. And on hills, the Envoy is a real climber though each stroke of the pedal might not get you too far.



Like other Envoy reviews, I had to readjust everything out-of-the-box. I swapped the front brake for a TRP HY/RD hydraulic and the rear with a BB7 that I had from another project. No more squealing.

I replaced the factory 8-speed cassette with the SunRace 11-40t as originally spec'd at the Mongoose website. *** Important Edit *** After blowing up my rear derailleur, I downgraded back to the factory spec 11-34t. The fit is too tight for a 40t (even with additional chain links) and it looks like I'll need a hanger extender to support a larger cog and I haven't sorted that out yet. *** Update *** I replaced the Shimano shifter and derailluer with a 9-speed MicroShift Advent shifter/derailleur/cassette combo. For now, I'm still running a 11-34t cassette, but the derailleur is spec'd up to 42t for those wanting a super climbing gear.

My most recent upgrade was an Ergotec Double Flex3 kickstand. It's almost a perfect fit. You need to cut the bolt down a bit and I used JB Plastic Weld to shim up the remaining 2 mm rear gap. The bike is super stable now on the kickstand.



Links:

1. Bluenergy: BAFANG Rear Wheel 500W 48V Hub Motor with SW102 Display

2. Ergotec Double Flex 3 Kickstand

3. TRP HY/RD Road Hydraulic Disc Brake Caliper Black with 180mm Rotor

4. MicroShift - ADVENT Right Trigger Shifter 9 Speed w/bearing

5. MicroShift - ADVENT Rear Derailleur - 9 Speed w/ Clutch
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Hyak, would you mind if I added your pic of the Envoy with a BBSHD to an envoy article?

Not at all. Please do.

How’s the torsional frame stiffness on the Envoy? I would imagine it’s fine, as it is a cargo bike, but I want to be able to put a little bit of weight in panniers, stand and pedal with e assist and not feel like the frame is potato chipping under me.

Have not noticed any frame flex. Even with a passenger or cargo on the back it is quite solid. Have never ridden a bike that felt this stable at speed before. The rims are narrower than I'd like which is visibly unnerving, but no issues there. The one thing it won't do well in terms of stability is hands free. There's a steering stabilizer installed that induces an oscillation if you take both hands off the bars. Sometimes I like to ride a few hundred yards upright to un-kink the back, adjust the helmet, or whatever and it's just not possible with this bike. Could remove it, but then the wheel would flop around when parked. Of the two options I prefer to leave it in place.

Awesome. Assuming I get one of these, I'll see if I can figure something out for no-hands stability, as I like to do that as well. Maybe just changing the preload on the stabilizer spring would do it, or using a Cane Creek Viscoset, which is a headset with a small amount of built in damping. https://www.canecreek.com/product/viscoset/ As long as they offer it in ZS44 fitment.

Thank you for the post. I also ride with my dog and I really like the extended rack with the wheel moved further back. One of our issues is when I wear my backpack Cecil sits almost sideways because my backpack gets into his space. His box is only a few inches behind by seat. With the Envoy there is plenty of room on the rack for a dog to stretch out. I needed a full suspension bike that was able to fit in standard airline suitcases but once we settle and find a new home I would like to convert a cargo bike to an 8 spd stretched hardtail with long rack, front suspension, seat post suspension, 3" street tires, and a mid drive motor. I like that it has disc brakes but I am not sure if I will like mechanical now that I am used to hydraulic.

I wonder if a 3" tire would fit on the back if the fender was removed? 2.4 or 2.5 is not a bad width either but I would want to change out the rims anyway as I prefer 35-40mm rim width for 2.5" and 45-50mm for 3" tires.

If you want to go back to the 46t sprocket for more speed Sunrace makes an inexpensive 8spd 11-40t cassette. I am running one on my bike now with a tsdz2 750w mid drive. I like the wider gear spread and when not climbing hills or riding in pedestrian areas I only use 4th through 8th gears. I had no problem upgrading my bike from 32-11 to 40-11 but I had to use a derailleur extender.

I hope your pup is enjoying his rides!

I bought a Mongoose Envoy, moved my rear hub e-assist kit onto it and have been using it for about the past month.

As others have said, it's a fantastic package to turn into an e-bike. It's solid, has tons of cargo options, includes huge panniers (imperfect, but work), a million riv-nuts for attaching whatever you want, etc. Also as noted elsewhere, the stock kickstand is too narrow. I swapped it out for a side kickstand that I had from my previous e-bike. The stock brakes work, but suck, as they pulsate very noticeably. I ditched the front shifter, and replaced the front brake with a hydraulic system, which is way better. The drivetrain is better than I expected, and I'll only swap the shifter when I swap the rear brake to a hydraulic unit (the stock brake lever and shifter are integrated).
The stock tires look impressive, the air volume is huge, and the tread looks like a great balance between fast rolling and enough edges to bite when things get a little sandy, slippery, etc. I haven't used them, though, as my wheels came from my other bike, and are 650b/27.5" with 46mm wide tires, vs the stock 26" x 2.4". For reference, my 650b x 46 tires are about the same outer diameter as the stock 26" x 2.4" tires.
For the price of this complete bike, especially considering it includes large panniers that work, it's impressive and recommendable.

Future possible mods: a frame bag between the seat tube and rear wheel, replace the rear mechanical disk brake with a hydraulic version, maybe integrated lights

stanmiller said:

Edit *** After blowing up my rear derailleur, I downgraded back to the factory spec 11-34t. The fit is too tight for a 40t (even with additional chain links) and it looks like I'll need a hanger extender to support a larger cog and I haven't sorted that out yet. *** Update *** I replaced the Shimano shifter and derailluer with a 9-speed MicroShift Advent shifter/derailleur/cassette combo. For now, I'm still running a 11-34t cassette, but the derailleur is spec'd up to 42t for those wanting a super climbing gear.

Click to expand...

I did the same thing, I blew my derailleur but I then put on a link extender and I have a couple thousand miles on it without any derailleur issues. I guess it is no longer a concern for you with the new 9 speed, and since you are using a hub drive you don't need to worry about using a thinner 9 speed chain. But for anyone else upgrading to the Sunrace 11-40T 8 speed cassette you want to order the link extender as well.

John and Cecil said:

I did the same thing, I blew my derailleur but I then put on a link extender and I have a couple thousand miles on it without any derailleur issues. I guess it is no longer a concern for you with the new 9 speed, and since you are using a hub drive you don't need to worry about using a thinner 9 speed chain. But for anyone else upgrading to the Sunrace 11-40T 8 speed cassette you want to order the link extender as well.

Click to expand...

What extender did you use with the Envoy? The JGbike one bundled with the SunRace 40T cassette wasn't compatible with the Envoy's derailleur hanger. Then I tried a Wolftooth Roadlink. Same thing - it didn't match up. Next I bought an extender branded 'Risk' and it would bolt on but ultimately it hung too low for the chain to clear the kickstand.

With the MicroShift Advent, there's just enough clearance.



And if you keep the three chainring configuration, even with the tallest rear cog at 34T, you still get very good 'gear inches' performance. When I installed the 40T cassette, I wasn't familiar with gear-inches as a way to gauge climbing ability.

This is a good article about gear-inches along with rider feedback in the comments.

Granny Gear Inches: Ride Now, Save Your Knees For Later
https://bikepacking.com/plan/granny-gear-inches/

Here's the difference between 34 and 40T cogs.



And what you might expect with a single chain ring.


BikeCalc.com - Calculate Gear Inches
https://www.bikecalc.com/gear_inches

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Anyone think the Lightning Rod Big Block cojld work on this frame?

Maybe XL version?

stanmiller said:

What extender did you use with the Envoy?

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Sorry, I have a different model bike not the Envoy. I believe my extender is the jgbike one as well. I thought they were compatible with all bikes but I guess not

Completed the Microshift Advent group upgrade with the 11-42T cassette. Seamless. Shifts great and climbs vertically.



MicroShift ADVENT H09 Cassette - 9 Speed, 11-42T, Alloy Large Cog
https://www.treefortbikes.com/MicroShift-ADVENT-H09-Cassette-9-Speed-11-42T-Alloy

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Hey, I am working this as part of my first eBike retrofit build and I have a question.

I got a Mongoose envoy and some of the quality seems a bit crusty. The brake levers had stripped screws for example and the rear derailleur mount was slightly bent. At this point, I am attempting to remove the BB using a BB removal tool (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0822G1VD4/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o03_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1) and a wrench. The BB seems to be either glued in there or screwed in with a significant amount of torque. I can't seem to get it off turning CCW from the non-drive side.

Has anyone here had a similar issue with this bike? Any tips for getting the stock BB off?

If I recall correctly, it's normal for one side of the bottom bracket to be reverse threaded on bikes. I've done the job twice, once each on two different bikes.

This video says it's the drive side that's reverse threaded:
[youtube]xUtOeFJJycg[/youtube]

Usually a few taps of the wrench with a rubber mallet work to remove a decade old BB. Much of the Envoy was assembled without any lube so it's no surprise me that this new BB is sticking. On initial assembly I noticed a dry headset dusted with aluminum shavings so decided to completely re-assemble the whole thing properly.

Since last post I've replaced the Mongoose brakes with the TRP Spyke mechanical. That eliminated squeal under light braking and fade under very heavy braking. Added a left side mirror. Battery is doing better with warmer temps.