Upgrading Prebuilt: Michael Blast Greaser

I was looking for a mode of transportation that would work for me and that was available for me to try before buying. This led me to purchasing a 350W Michael Blast Greaser from a local power sport shop in July and when the weather was good enough for me to ride it was a great first electric. I want to boost it's abilities and make a fun commuter for inner-city as well as being able to ride to neighbouring towns and cities. Here is an overview of my project, all input is appreciated.

Requirements:
-Abide by Canadian Laws- rated 500W, >120kg bike weight
-Ability to reach 50km/h with 170lb driver
-Carry a passenger at 30km/h
-Minimum 50km range, would like to double or triple

Wants:
-Regenerative braking
-Integrated brake and signal lights, horn(s) (quiet for paths and loud for road)
-Improve suspension
Front fork suspension worth it?
Custom plunger shock unit attached to rear? (BMW R25)
Seat suspension?
-Improved aesthetics
Cafe racer seat attached with custom seat post
Custom fibreglass shells+faux tank for electronics/storage
Wiring a different display unit into existing electronics, such as: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32851537129.html

Current Bike Specs:

Motor: BAFANG 350W Geared Brushless Rear Hub Electric Motor
Battery: Samsung Lithium Ion 36Volt13Ah
Propulsion: Pedal assist via 12 magnet cadence sensors with twist throttle
Gears: 5 speed motor assist with 7 speed Shimano Acera
Brakes: Tektro Hydraulic Auriga (180 mm front / 160 mm rear)
Controller: Control freak 18Ah
Trip Computer: LCD 5 speed display
Frame: A6061 Aluminum Tig welded
Fork: Double Down Chromolly / CNC Alu Made crown set
Stem and Handle bar: Promax Aluminium
Tires: Duro, Beach Bum 26’x 3.00, 15-36PSI
Weight capacity: 260 lbs (118 kg)
Product Weight: 63 lbs (28.6 kg)

Pictures:

View attachment 2



Other Notes:
I bought this bike because I was diagnosed with a disease similar to MS and didn't feel safe driving a car anymore. Originally I was looking for a scooter with a motorcycle aesthetic but the Greaser was a better fit and in my price range at the time, it's been great to ride around town. I can't do the metal work so I'll be talking to local fabricators, however I do enjoy making and I will try my hand at the fibreglass. I also own a 3d printer for producing plastic parts up to 200mm³.

Update 29/12/19:
I'm going to break up this project into three parts: integrated signals/headlight, seat+shell, and system upgrade. Working through these in order will let me budget for the motor and battery while still making progress on the looks, storage, and safety.
Update 03/01/20:
Really liked the simple spring suspension for the seat from: https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=92640, implemented it into my own plan.



Planned System Upgrade:
Motor: GMAC10T
Controller: Baserunner
Batteries: Hailong jumbo case 14S6P, Hailong case 14S5P

Laird_Mac said:

Requirements:
-Abide by Canadian Laws- rated 500W, >120kg bike weight
-Ability to reach 50km/h with 170lb driver
-Carry a passenger at 30km/h
-Minimum 50km range, would like to double or triple

Click to expand...

30mph (50kmh) is going to take up to three times the power you're wanting to limit to, on the flats with no headwinds.

Assuming the "18Ah" in the bike controller specs you give really means 18A, at 36v, then what you already have is already able to output almost 650watts, at least at peaks such as starts from a stop or hill climbs, at it's highest assist levels, if those are actually programmed to use that power. (you'd have to use a wattmeter to verify actual power output from the battery, or a dyno to verify actual power output from the wheel).


Keep in mind the below is data from a simulation, so real world results could be better or worse, depending on actual equipment used, and actual conditions.

Simulator using a common "500w" motor, took a 72v battery pack to get the speed needed, using 100% throttle to get 51kmh (meaning as the battery discharges it won't reach 50kmh anymore, just at full charge and for a short bit after you start riding). Takes almost 1500w battery power, aroudn 1200w motor power.
https://www.ebikes.ca/tools/simulator.html?motor=M2707&autothrot=true&hp=0&batt=B7223_AC&throt=100

Range...it gives an estimate of 28.4 Wh/km, and estimated range of 58 km for a 23Ah 72v pack (whcih is pretty large and can be heavy, it would be around four times the size of what you have now). So for three times that range, you'd need about 70Ah at 72v (about 5kwh). I have a 2kwh pack on the trike that is between 35-40lbs, and size of a stack of hardback books. You'd need something two and a half times that, so up to 90lbs, and rather on the huge size. Mine is in a trike under the seat, easy to find a space for--not so easy on a "regular" bike. (long cargo bikes, maybe, depending on design).

If most of your riding is at much slower speeds, it'll take less power, requiring less battery, again assuming no wind and completely flat roads. Using the same simulation, but only going 30kmh, it's only around 11.2wh/km, giving it a 151 km range with just the 23Ah pack.
https://www.ebikes.ca/tools/simulator.html?motor=M2707&autothrot=true&hp=0&batt=B7223_AC&throt=41.6

If your terrain or weather conditions are less optimal, it'll take more power, requiring more battery.

Neither of the simulations accounts for acceleration from a stop, either, which takes much more power the more mass there is to acclerate (going uphill is the same). So if you have frequent stops and starts, it's going to take more power (potentially a lot more) for a heavy mass than to just accelerate once and keep going.

-Regenerative braking

Click to expand...

Requires DD hubmotor in the wheel (which makes suspension less effective). Front hubmotor is more effective at braking, easier to install, but for higher torque you need effective torque arms or plates on the dropouts to prevent breaking them or spinning out the axle in the dropouts (with the potential for a serious crash if the wheel comes off).

-Integrated brake and signal lights, horn (quiet for paths and loud for road)

Click to expand...

Lighting is easy; there's a number of threads around here including especially Teklektik's thread on that, that have details on exactly how to set this up and even what parts to buy, or you can poke thru my SB Cruiser and/or CrazyBike2 threads for ways to do this with scavenged / DIY parts.

You should use a bell, not a horn, on bike / shared paths. A horn (even "quiet") is often frightening and generally rude.

Save the horn for the roads where a bell woudln't work anyway, and use a car horn so it can be heard inside a vehicle with a loud stereo running, and they will know what the sound means (even if they still ignore it).

-Improve suspension
Front fork suspension worth it?
Custom plunger shock unit attached to rear? (BMW R25)
Seat suspension?

Click to expand...

How bad are your roads? If theyre really good, suspenson won't matter much, and you can keep it unsuspended. If they're typical, you're going to want good full suspension for 30MPH, especially with the weight you're going to be carrying. Cheap suspension sucks at higher speeds on worse conditions. If they're really bad, you might need a completely different bike to start with, that's already designed for these conditions, speeds, and weight.


You're probably going to want to ensure the brakes you have can handle stopping higher mass from higher speeds. Tires may need to be changed to something with really good grip for the conditions you'll be riding in, especially if there's ice--might want studs. Losing traction during emergency braking really really sucks, especially if you're trying to dodge something in front of you or make a turn.

Wiring a different display unit into existing electronics,

Click to expand...

That page doesn't open for me (shows basics but doesnt' load any text or images), but depending on what you want it to do, displays are often specific to controller brands and models. If you want a different display you generally have to use the controller that comes with that display. I strongly recommend buying display and controller from the same place at the same time, to ensure they are compatible--it's happened where different versions of the same brand/model of display/controller don't correclty communicate.

If it's just a speedometer/etc display that could be used with any bike or vehicle, and your controller doesnt' require a display to set it's levels/functions/etc, then you can wire it in however the display says to do so. SOme of them require specific voltage input, or specific speedometer input, so you would also have to provide those to it.

But if your controller is a common type where you use the LCD controls to change assist levels, etc., you'd have to replace that with a different controller that doesn't use an LCD/etc in order to get rid of it's display completely. (it *could* be kept, and just hidden inside your "tank", for times when you must access it's settings and such, and just wire the buttons out to be accessible). SInce you're going to upgrade the controller for higher power and voltage anyway, it's somewhat irrelevant, but thought you should know how these usually work.

With my stock bike I'm still able to hit 38km/h in optimal conditions on full throttle. I've never rode a bike on a highway before, I have friends that are cyclists that can help me adjust to the riding conditions once things are nice out but they also have to be available. The furthest I could see myself riding is 50km before charging, but it is something I want to try and push in the future. This is still a bit of an early build concept and the warranty for the electronics ends in a year, I was planning on replacing the hub, controller, and battery at that time. I had been looking at ebikes.ca for parts but I didn't know which would be best suited.

I assumed that having the regen on the front would be better and had been playing with the idea of a twin hub+controller build but after looking through the forum I thought it wasn't worth it in many aspects. Is regen worth the work of installing the hub in the front and the other modifications?

The roads vary a lot, with the ones in the worse condition having the least traffic for some of the longer rides I want to take. I have no plans on riding when there's ice on the roads, my last ride was in November and while my tires could grip some ice I still wiped out when trying to stop in front of my house.

Doing a build from scratch was another thought but I wanted to try and make this bike work, as it was a pretty sizeable investment for me. The speed isn't as important as the distance, but the most important speed is initial and I know that will increase with a new controller+battery.

Laird_Mac said:

With my stock bike I'm still able to hit 38km/h in optimal conditions on full throttle.

Click to expand...

Which means that it is indeed around 650w system, not just 350w, though the hubmotor itself may indeed be rated to be used at a max of 350w continous (and could overheat if used long enough at nearly twice that power).

This simulation (of the same DD hubmotor as above, rather than trying a geared hub) shows around 38kmh takes about 650w battery power,
https://www.ebikes.ca/tools/simulator.html?motor=M2707&autothrot=true&hp=0&batt=B7223_AC&throt=55.6

I assumed that having the regen on the front would be better and had been playing with the idea of a twin hub+controller build but after looking through the forum I thought it wasn't worth it in many aspects. Is regen worth the work of installing the hub in the front and the other modifications?

Click to expand...

You can have regen in the front or back, but most of your braking power is in front due to weight transfer, so it's more effective in front if it's strong enough to break traction in the rear. There are many kinds of regen braking, some stronger than others, and some more controllable.

Most just use on/off regen, either full braking or none.

Proportional regen is available on a few controllers, including the Grinfineons that ebikes.ca currently sells, as well as their Phaserunner. This means you can use the brake lever to engage braking mode, and then use the throttle to control braking amount. (I'm working on a method to use a brake lever to do the entire thing, but time hasn't been available to work on it with the holidaze and otehr stuff).

Whether regen is worth it depends on what you expect out of it. You can use it to get a tiny amount (a few percent) of your power back, rather than wasting it as heat on brake pads/rootrs. You can use it to reduce wear on the mechanical brakes. Or both. Some versions of regen actually *use* power to make braking harder; these will be stronger and may be able to brake down to zero speed; most generate power in the braking process but only go down to a few MPH before useful braking ceases.

You'd ahve to check the manual or specs for any particular controller to see what it's braking is like. The only ones I've seen with charts and such that really let you predict how it will behave are the Grin tech ones.

I personally prefer multi-WD motor systems because of redundancy, becuase I am not capable of pedalling my bikes/trikes by myself for enough distance / etc to be useful anymore. So redundancy is important to me. It may not be to you, so 2WD may not be worth it for that reason.

But 2WD can accelerate twice as fast (and sustain twice the load without overheating) if that's important to you. (assuming two identical systems). I also prefer them for this reason. WIth differnet motors/systems in each wheel, the sharing is different and the results are different, but you stil get more acceleration than with either individual. You can simulate 2WD systems on that simulator, too.

Doing a build from scratch was another thought but I wanted to try and make this bike work, as it was a pretty sizeable investment for me.

Click to expand...

FWIW, it's probably simpler to build a whole new bike for the new purpose, and keep this one as a spare, since you really can't use much of anything off of it out of the expensive electronics and battery and stuff, and the cost of upgrading the actual bike to do what you want (suspension, etc etc) might be higher than finding a good used bike that already has as much of that stuff as possible.

The total cost of the new bike might end up a little more this way, but you will still have the old one as a complete working bike you can either use as a spare for when the new one is not working, or you could sell it as a complete working bike rather than as parts.

If you like you can work out the cost difference, once you figure out the system you want to use on the new bike, between replacing all the old stuff on the old bike or just starting over.


Oh, also, I forgot to change teh controller int eh previoulsy linked simulations, so it was only using 20A current limit, which means it could probably go faster on the same throttle for the faster simulation. you can experiment with athat stuff on the simulator to see what you'll be able to do with particular equipment, and / or get an idea of what stuff you'll have to have to do what you want under all of your conditions. Just make sure to read the whole page first, so you know what all the stuff and settings are, so you get accurate results that you can understand.


Youv'e got a year to pick out your stuff and develop your ideas, so plenty of time to decide what you want to do.

I think waiting for faster speeds until I have a bike with proper suspension is what I'll have to do. I'm still planning on changing the shell as it got in the way of the bit of peddling I do and the seat as I want to enhance the cafe racer aesthetic as well as carry a passenger. If I still wanted to make some upgrades to this bike's electrics, should I just look at increasing the AH and buy more batteries? Overheating was something that I thought about but assumed the controller would handle anything from going catastrophic.

Laird_Mac said:

If I still wanted to make some upgrades to this bike's electrics, should I just look at increasing the AH and buy more batteries?

Click to expand...

That just gives you more range, and makes the system put less load on each one.

Overheating was something that I thought about but assumed the controller would handle anything from going catastrophic

Click to expand...

.
Most motor systems don't have a thermal sensor in the motor / system in htte controller to read and react to it. Yours probably doesn't.

The controller's current limit of 18A (presumably) means that it can provide more power than the motor can handle, continuously. So it can't stop the mtoor from overheating, it's actually what would cause it.

IF the controller only has a *peak* current rating of 18A, and it's continuous rating is say, 9A, then it would only run at full power for some short period, and then cut that to about half of that power. How long? dunno--you'd ahve to test it.

But if the controller doesn't do that, it'll just keep pouring current into the motor, and eventually overheat it.

You can monitor temperatures externally, with one of those laser-dot thermal-sensor handhelds, checking it periodically, but it will take time (minutes, at least) for the heat built up inside to soak thru the layers of metal/etc to reach the outside where you can measure it. It's possible to damage a motor before that happens. (done this)

DD hubmotors have a shorter heat path than geared do, so less time to soak thru to measure from outside, but they are still vulnerable to heat damage.

I opened up the shell to see how things are setup inside:

There seems to be a lot of unused space and the shell is twice as wide as the battery. I wasn't able to figure out how to remove the battery itself, I have a key for it to unlock and I see what looks like a button to depress but nothing seemed to be working. As for overheating I've seen thermal fins added to hubs before, is that a practical way to manage heat?
The bafang controller has an unused cable for regenerative breaking, would adding these brake levers and splitter make it work?
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32853578944.html
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32889504903.html

I figured out how to remove the battery, the controller will just take a few screws. There are only three wires that come from the controller and they run through the frame of the bike.
View attachment 1

Laird_Mac said:

As for overheating I've seen thermal fins added to hubs before, is that a practical way to manage heat?

Click to expand...

as i said above, a geared hubmotor has multiple layers of stuff for heat to pass thru, so it takes a while for the heat to get to the outside where fins woudl help. until then it's just building up isnide where it can damge things.

a dd motor is more direcdt heat path.

there are threads about cooling hubs with oil, ferrofluid, statorade, atf, mineral oil, etc. all sorts of things, and a thread by justin_le with specific testing of some fo these.

The bafang controller has an unused cable for regenerative breaking, would adding these brake levers and splitter make it work?

Click to expand...

no because its' a geard hub with a freewheeling clutch. this is why it can easily spin forward withotu mtoor power, where otherwise it'd be difficult to do. try hand spinning the wheel backward and youll see what i mean.

so if you brake the motor it ust stops the motor, not the hweel.

amberwolf said:

-a geared hubmotor has multiple layers of stuff for heat to pass thru
-a dd motor is more direcdt heat path
-there are threads about cooling
-no because its' a geard hub with a freewheeling clutch

Click to expand...

Thank you for all the information. I want to keep things simple as this is my only current independent mode of transportation. I've figured out the wiring harness for thecontroller:

From the controller the thinnest wire leads to the pedal sensor, while one wire leads to the motor and the other leads to a splitter.

The three wires at the top go to the lcd, throttle and the unused brake sensor. The wire leading right powers the front LED headlight and is probably the best way for me to power integrated signal lights. I can't find any information about the specs of the LED so I don't know how much power I have to work with for a signalling circuit.

Is it possible to add more battery to a controller/battery setup like this safely without opening it up?

After a lot of gusto I was able to get the connection to the LED off and found a red 2-pin connector, I'm assuming to find available voltage for a circuit I would just use a multimeter with those two pins? (edit: found out that it is not possible) I'm also looking online for another 2-pin cable so I do as little damage to the existing electronics as possible.

edit: I was only able to find one website with the 2-pin connectors
https://hilleater.ca/2-pin-higo-style-e-bike-headlight-y-splitter-cable/

The reason why I wanted a 72V system was because I was under the impression the higher the voltage, the better the efficiency. I think it would be best for me to upgrade the controller/batter/motor so I'm less likely to burn out the motor under the riding I do. After looking through the options and I think my best option is buying a battery and hub motor kit though ebikes.ca.

that bike is a Chinese knock off of the $5000 rayvolt. I have a similar set up that your looking for on my giant stiletto except my rear is a 24x3.0 kenda flame, its a hard tail so I have a cruiser seat with springs to soften the ride.
range is about 60km at 32km/h, stop and go traffic and im always going up a hill just to go down a hill
top speed mid 60? km/h and I don't pedal.
2-14s4p batteries, Samsung 25r. each battery is 52v10ah so 20ah will get me 60km range
1- phaserunner controller, best feature I think is the regen, its strong at braking.
1- crystallite hs3540 DD motor, im running around 2000watts, im not crazy about the motor, it runs good and good power but its a bit of a pig on electricity at higher speeds and don't like the axle, the mxus v3 turbo, 3000watts, has slightly better range and a better axle.

you seem concerned about Canada regulations, here in BC, 32km/h max speed on level ground with wide open throttle. its 500 watts for motor and I think 1500wh battery and youre not allowed to double, just you on the bike.

so youre saying my bikes illegal and it is but if your not riding like a moron the cops don't bug me at all, never actually. my other bike has a 1200watt mxus xf40 DD hub with phaserunner and same batteries,running at 2000 watts. top speed is in the 50s km/h and its getting better range probably 70km. I bought the xf40 from grin for $250, im in a 20 inch wheel but they have the xf40 for bigger rims, then spokes are $60? I got my 24x3.0 weinmann rim from them the phaserunner was $380? if you ask they have cosmetic defects for a little cheaper, im cheap so both of mine have a cosmetic defect somewhere?

xf40, phaserunner, rim, spokes, v4 torque arm and they laced the wheel was $900 cad youll probably need a programming chord and a cycle analyst too but if you buy from them it can come programmed. batteries, learn to make them or expect to pay around $1500 or more

goatman said:

-you seem concerned about Canada regulations
-but if your not riding like a moron the cops don't bug
-batteries, learn to make them or expect to pay around $1500 or more

Click to expand...

I'm just concerned about the word of the regulations and how I can "technically" follow them while getting the most out of my bike. Once upgraded I'll probably be taking it to the local police station to educate them about it, but I understand the sentiment of not riding like a moron.

Building my own battery has been on my mind, I don't have the means for spot welding but I have seen battery pack cell holder/casing that I could print. However since this is my only current bike I think I should use something tried and true over self made.

edit: Is buying an empty shark style case and then filling with my own cells a viable option? I have great placement for two of them.

I would never take my bike to the cop shop, lol. its registered with garage 529. battery you could get another case or just get cell holders. I don't like how tight those cases are. or the contact prongs either.

Grin is suggesting a GMAC kit which seems to fit, since I'm planning on using Hailong casings the Baserunner would be the best controller to go with as it should fit my needs as well as fit within one of the cases. They also suggested the RH212 kit if I wanted direct drive. I've also ordered some electronics for the integrated turn signals that will also give me a headlight with a high beam.

I ran the motor/controller/battery plan through the calculator: https://www.ebikes.ca/tools/simulator.html?motor=GMAC10T&autothrot=false&hp=0&batt=cust_52_0.2_27.5&throt=100&cont=cust_45_80_0.03_V&mass=130&blue=Nm&frame=mountain
It doesn't have the amount of speed I was expecting.

Laird_Mac said:

I ran the motor/controller/battery plan through the calculator: https://www.ebikes.ca/tools/simulator.html?motor=GMAC10T&autothrot=false&hp=0&batt=cust_52_0.2_27.5&throt=100&cont=cust_45_80_0.03_V&mass=130&blue=Nm&frame=mountain
It doesn't have the amount of speed I was expecting.

Click to expand...

You need to go with the 8T to even get close.

I can't wait for phase 2. I've always wanted to try fabricating with fiberglass at some point.

amberwolf said:

This simulation (of the same DD hubmotor as above, rather than trying a geared hub) shows around 38kmh takes about 650w battery power,
https://www.ebikes.ca/tools/simulator.html?motor=M2707&autothrot=true&hp=0&batt=B7223_AC&throt=55.6

Click to expand...

Off topic, but just so I can see if I'm reading these graphs right, it looks kind of like 550w. Should it be where the load line intersects the power line?

I know I am late to the show, but I have installed suspension forks on my two cruisers (Felt - one with an air Rock Shoxx XC32, and one - the electric one - with Rock Shoxx Domain) and it made them much more comfortable. I could also highly recommend the Brooks B190 (have them on both Felts) for a saddle, very comfy, but you want a Cafe Racer seat so...
With these two mods it is the closest you come to a full suspension ride on a hard tail frame, especially with a seated position. IMO a hard seat is only good with a normal riding position where you could help with your joints.
So a suspension fork is a sweeeet mod, makes a huge difference, get one. I got my forks used, very happy with them, both around 150$ each. Keep in mind that with a MTB fork you could keep your front wheel, but with a downhill triple tree fork you will need to relace it to a through axle hub (I used Shimano Zee).

E-HP said:

amberwolf said:

This simulation (of the same DD hubmotor as above, rather than trying a geared hub) shows around 38kmh takes about 650w battery power,
https://www.ebikes.ca/tools/simulator.html?motor=M2707&autothrot=true&hp=0&batt=B7223_AC&throt=55.6

Click to expand...

Off topic, but just so I can see if I'm reading these graphs right, it looks kind of like 550w. Should it be where the load line intersects the power line?

Click to expand...

the power level for a specific speed under the conditions set in the simulator is where the dotted vertical black line is, going up from the box at the bottom with the speed in it.

all of the parameters relevant to that particular speed line are shown in the boxes at the bottom, and they change realtime as you move the line/change the speed.

to see a different speed, grab and move the line, or turn off autothrottle and change the throttle percentage, etc.

amberwolf said:

the power level for a specific speed under the conditions set in the simulator is where the dotted vertical black line is, going up from the box at the bottom with the speed in it.

all of the parameters relevant to that particular speed line are shown in the boxes at the bottom, and they change realtime as you move the line/change the speed.

to see a different speed, grab and move the line, or turn off autothrottle and change the throttle percentage, etc.

Click to expand...

Thanks, this is really helpful. It looks like the "Battery Power" must be adjusted for the controller losses/efficiency, since although motor power is 537W, the battery power is 648W. I need to pay more attention to those table values

yeah, it bases all that stuff on parameters of each type of motr or contorller or battery.

you can go to the bottom of each of those dropdowns and make your own custom one with some of the parameters if you know what to put in there.

as i say whenever i refer anyone to the simulator, read the *entire* page to see what evertyhing is and how it works. then play with different systems to see the interrelations between different htings.

it's an interesting way to learn how all these thigns work together, and how to pick a system that does what you need it to without being overkill (and overbudget :lol: ).

The cafe racer seat arrived today:



My initial plan is to have posts fabricated like the ones on the saddle seat, and then use the clamp on the seat post. This will let me adjust it's positioning to test the best fit. The fenders on the bike are too small compared to the seat. I've been looking for where the best place to buy fenders that provide more coverage and have only found hollandbikeshop.com other than amazon, but everything seems too small for a 3" cruiser tire.

edit: found these http://store.ruff-cycles.com/ruff-cycles-bicycle-parts/wheels-tires/fenders/ruff-cycles-fender-set-26-inch-black.html

Great post. Would love to have an update on progress, possibly with pictures. Thanks.

How has this progressed? I have recently ordered a blast and am looking to upgrade the motor/battery with either a dillenger or Luna kit.