Another full suspension build

Show off your Ebike creation here.
Post Reply
User avatar
methods   100 GW

100 GW
Posts: 5113
Joined: Aug 08 2008 12:08pm
Location: Santa Cruz CA
Contact:

Another full suspension build

Post by methods » Nov 26 2020 12:16pm

I am looking around for a bike right now. Prices in Santa Cruz are always hugely inflated, and CL sucks for the most part over here (dead). CL in the East Bay was amazing thru the 2000's...

Anyhow

https://sfbay.craigslist.org/scz/bik/d/ ... 46682.html

There is an example of the sort of deal I look for. Older bike, lots of upgraded components. If you compare it to the average bike on the trail around here ($4k and up) it is a roach-bag. . . but. . . if you get on that thing and smash around :mrgreen:
00404_irxCHg7dCgr_0CI0t2_600x450.jpg
00404_irxCHg7dCgr_0CI0t2_600x450.jpg (54.06 KiB) Viewed 1806 times
Not concerned about where to mount the battery. That is easy to solve. I like mine lower than higher. I never put it over the front or rear wheel. I prefer not to have it high on the bar. Somewhere hanging in the middle was the best for me. I dont like the feeling of a bunch of weight (anywhere) high on the bike, and especially not over the front or rear wheels (Riding data I collected, your opinion is your opinion)

* Rear Air Shock - YES
* Front Air Shock - YES
* Hydraulic Brakes - YES
* Reasonable Rubber - YES
* Clickers - YES
* Waffles - YES

... Throw a hub on the back of that thing with a solid current limit and enough voltage to match KV for target top speed. . . and that will work out to be a bad-ass ride. Dude wants $400 bones. Looks like a deal to me.

I have a 10 turn coming with a temperature probe. . . So I guess I am looking at building a climber. I am sure I will be dominated by everyone with a mid-drive, but I like to keep it old-School some times. With thermal management I know I can climb the SC mountains* All depends on not making heat and getting the heat you make - OUT.

-methods
Increasing battery voltage and controller current limit will result in a non linear experience

User avatar
methods   100 GW

100 GW
Posts: 5113
Joined: Aug 08 2008 12:08pm
Location: Santa Cruz CA
Contact:

Re: Another full suspension build

Post by methods » Nov 26 2020 12:20pm

I have an ad out for buying broken Ebikes.

Guy contacted me saying that he has a mid-drive Cannondale that is missing the battery and wheels. Said he would forward more info, did not get it. No doubt some dubious goods. . .

I...
Recognize the superiority of the Mid-Drive for many performance situations. I am still also SUPER suspicious about how all of this will play out in terms of Durable goods. Will we be able to service and repair this stuff 10 years from now?

...

A 9C Hub Motor consists of

* Axle, quite simple
* bearings
* Stator assembly
* Cover plates
* Wiring
* Halls. . .

We have all taken them apart many times and (if possible) we know how to repair and modify. I hope it becomes true that we will know the internals of these mid-drive setups. . . but my guess. . . is that every company focused on incompatibility and as they fall into disrepair

They will go to the Land Fill

Time will tell, and I am in support of those companies that produce Durable Goods suitable for Home Repair*

-methods
Increasing battery voltage and controller current limit will result in a non linear experience

User avatar
methods   100 GW

100 GW
Posts: 5113
Joined: Aug 08 2008 12:08pm
Location: Santa Cruz CA
Contact:

Re: Another full suspension build

Post by methods » Nov 26 2020 12:29pm

Eh...
While I wait for folks to reply to my CL questions...

JUMP BIKES got destroyed by Uber.

* They pulled all the racks out
* They took away all the bikes
* They replaced the program with nothing (claiming COVID)

...

Dude - F'ing lame. Thanks a lot UBER. Almost as bad as the Coca-Cola company. You may or may not be aware that they bought out our long standing and local Odwalla ... only to kill the company.
Odwalla.png
Odwalla.png (83.79 KiB) Viewed 1802 times
Odwalla made all sorts of tasty protein drinks. Super Food, Banana Strawberry... they were around for many decades. Who knows what happens, but I bet the company was handed down, folks got greedy, cashed out, and now the bastards (big money) crushed one of the last sources of actual nutrition on the market.

FRUCK YOU COKE

FRUCK YOU UBER

I could go on for 30 minutes on the last time I tried to catch an UBER while at John Wayne Airport. It was the shadiest. . . and it proved to me that UBER is no longer in a position to responsibly take over the Cab industry. They left me standing there for 45 minutes... raising the prices over and over... trying to figure out how much I was willing to pay to go 2 miles.

A N Y W A Y

This is not methods RANT thread, this is a build thread. Lets get on to building. Remember while you build that we are on the absolute fringe of society, and that if you can build an ebike. . . you can service a Robot.

-methods
Increasing battery voltage and controller current limit will result in a non linear experience

User avatar
methods   100 GW

100 GW
Posts: 5113
Joined: Aug 08 2008 12:08pm
Location: Santa Cruz CA
Contact:

Re: Another full suspension build

Post by methods » Nov 26 2020 1:05pm

Batteries. . .

Sigh

I...
Have some Pouches here on my desk. I really prefer those large form-factor cells. These particular units are out of a sketch ol' Zero Pack (salvaged) but I am most interested in something that comes with bracketry. Uh... I guess those would be leaf cells or something like that?

I have always wanted to do a good distributed battery.
6 cells here
9 cells there
Heavy 8AWG linking them

... I am in the process of qualifying a new connector (Last time it was Anderson PP45 in 10AWG) this time it is the WAGO 221 rated for 10AWG
WAGO 221a.png
WAGO 221a.png (366.64 KiB) Viewed 1796 times
These come in two basic flavors

* Small
* Big

The big ones are significantly larger and rated for 10AWG
WAGO 221.png
WAGO 221.png (496.3 KiB) Viewed 1796 times
Look closely. . . there are various ratings. The highest of them are 41A continuous, but you are assured at least 30A continuous. I use these for HV work... as they are rated for anywhere from 300V up.

Anyhow

These connectors DOMINATE

* You just have to strip the wire, no need to crimp anything
* They can be very quickly applied and come in 2 thru 5 poles (great for parallel)
* They are spring loaded and clamp HARD - the real deal

I use them all over the place. I use the little ones for things like 22AWG maybe up to 16AWG... and the big ones for 10AWG

These are -> Field Connections*
Kind of like the Wire Nut is to the Electrician. . . but these are WAY, WAY, WAY better. I have already gone thru a full lifecycle (from first use thru upcycle) and I am totally stoked on them. :mrgreen:

(Credit to Mike and Jim from ChargePoint for insisting that they are rad and that I should use them - no regrets... and I just bought another 300)

I use them in AC Mains work (120, 240) as well as DC high current (Hobby Packs). I have everything at the Robotics Company terminated in these. . . so you can SUPER FAST adapt to anything. Just cut off the bullshit connector, strip, and plug in.

Gets the job done
... They can also be inspected from the side. You can see that the Insulation is inside, but not pinched

Anyway...
I am going to build an Ebike Test Platform out of these.

-methods
Increasing battery voltage and controller current limit will result in a non linear experience

User avatar
methods   100 GW

100 GW
Posts: 5113
Joined: Aug 08 2008 12:08pm
Location: Santa Cruz CA
Contact:

Re: Another full suspension build

Post by methods » Nov 26 2020 1:40pm

Leaf Cells. . .

A few Robotics companies ago I finally got some of these in hand.
s-l640.jpg
s-l640.jpg (35.44 KiB) Viewed 1787 times
They are stupid simple. Just 2S legos that you can slam together. At that time I evaluated the Leaf Cells as well as a Farasis brick wired for 14S instead of the Zero Motorcycle 28S (2P instead of 1P). The Brick was ... eh... obviously too large for any kind of sane ebike setup.

so
How about the Nissan Cells?

I am sure many of tried it and I have done no research. Lets see...

* Minimum of 14S, so 7 blocks
* 41AH
* Charge or discharge at 130A

Yea, that should do it
Something like 4 * 14 = 56V nominal, 56V * 41Ah = 2.3KWh
Sufficient

130A * 56V = 7.28KW discharge

...

Some random website for a starting point: https://bigbattery.com/product/nissan-l ... module-g1/

$40 * 7 = $280
Could that be right?
No doubt shipping and tax... so... take that same $280, head over to Hobby King

s-l640.jpg
s-l640.jpg (35.44 KiB) Viewed 1787 times
$280 / $34 = ~8pcs

14.8V * 5Ah = 74Wh
74Wh * 8 = ~600Wh

Now...
Since we are WAY outside of the SAG range... the C rating means nothing. All that really matters is available WH at a suitable voltage with minimal continuous current.

If my math is right (and it may not be) it looks like Hobby King will get me 600Wh of fussy-ass packs. . . and Nissan will get me 2.3KWh for the same price!

Eh... Could that be right? :confused:

(cross checking, Ebay... Back-math)

2.3KW / 7 = 328Wh a block
41Ah * 8V = 328Wh per block
Hrm...

$40 for 328Wh - is that $0.12 per Wh?

Meh - only half focused over here. Checking Fleabay
$360
6 modules shipped claiming 3KWH
6 * 328Wh = ~2KW (er...?)

Try another

Hrmmm 488Wh each?

Single Pouch Math
122Wh / 3.75V = 32.5Ah
122Wh * 4 = 488Wh

https://qnovo.com/inside-the-battery-of ... an%20store.

Hrm...
If I get 7 of those bad-boys. . .

7 * 488 = 3.416Kwh

yea

Not seeing how Hobby King can compete with that in any way. ...

methods Math :mrgreen:
Better to add margin than to try and make things look better than they are

GOOD
* High quality reliable cells
* Super easy to attach to
* Hard Case

BAD
* Super huge and bulky
* Super heavy load to carry
* Hard to fit on the bike

So... I am going to make a "wall" of Leaf Cells. So cells mounted side by side by side. . . See how that works. First step to any project?

GO BUY BATTERIES
(Doing that now)

-methods
Attachments
HardPack.png
HardPack.png (289.87 KiB) Viewed 1787 times
Increasing battery voltage and controller current limit will result in a non linear experience

User avatar
methods   100 GW

100 GW
Posts: 5113
Joined: Aug 08 2008 12:08pm
Location: Santa Cruz CA
Contact:

Re: Another full suspension build

Post by methods » Nov 26 2020 1:52pm

Always check CraigsList first. . .

https://sfbay.craigslist.org/nby/pts/d/ ... 04612.html

12 for sale
$80 each
Gen 1

Why $80, not $40?
(If you can not tell, I am just catching up here. I always do it by random depth charges, to get a feel for where things are at)

$89 per module
$75 per module
Different size and shape modules. . . Ok...

https://sfbay.craigslist.org/nby/pts/d/ ... 97807.html

$100 bucks for 500Wh module

https://sfbay.craigslist.org/sfc/ele/d/ ... 63680.html

Meh... blah blah blah... doing my research...

https://sfbay.craigslist.org/nby/pts/d/ ... 18407.html

Ok
Little industry cropping up. Prices all over the place. Although I HATE Ebay, that may be where I want to go here. Not sure. ... Eh... Maybe I need to buy a wrecked car instead :mrgreen:

*(build ebike, always start with Research)

-methods
Increasing battery voltage and controller current limit will result in a non linear experience

User avatar
methods   100 GW

100 GW
Posts: 5113
Joined: Aug 08 2008 12:08pm
Location: Santa Cruz CA
Contact:

Re: Another full suspension build

Post by methods » Nov 26 2020 1:53pm

Make Mistake, OK
Just... Keep checking your numbers... come out with right answer at end, all good.

-methods
Increasing battery voltage and controller current limit will result in a non linear experience

User avatar
methods   100 GW

100 GW
Posts: 5113
Joined: Aug 08 2008 12:08pm
Location: Santa Cruz CA
Contact:

Re: Another full suspension build

Post by methods » Nov 26 2020 2:10pm

Ebay Search:: "Nissan Leaf Battery Module"

G1, $80, Free shipping
G1, 8pcs, $450, $56.25 each shipped
G2, $125, 7.6V 64Ah, 500Wh advertized

Ok, so there is G1 and G2
G2 are 480... or basically 500Wh

500Wh goes for about $125 dollars
Used Goods***

G1, 6pcs, $360, $60 each, 3Kwh claimed, 3kw/6= 500Wh -> What gives?
Are folks advertising the G2 Wh for G1 modules?

Searching for difference
I hATE posts like this
https://www.elektricbikes.com/the-diffe ... batteries/

Why does everything have to be a frocking video? Can people not type? Grrr...

https://www.greentecauto.com/hybrid-bat ... ery-module

G1
38-43Ah
Call it 40Ah
7.6V * 40Ah = 300Wh

Oh... Ok...

... Dude
Been searching for an hour now. The interneat is SWAMPED with misinformation. I cant find a single straight answer on the top of the list. I happen to KNOW that among those who know, it is known... but for a "joe" trying to finger this out - FRUCK!

So... Lots of bad intel
Par for the course

-methods
Increasing battery voltage and controller current limit will result in a non linear experience

User avatar
methods   100 GW

100 GW
Posts: 5113
Joined: Aug 08 2008 12:08pm
Location: Santa Cruz CA
Contact:

Re: Another full suspension build

Post by methods » Nov 26 2020 2:12pm

Note
Putting all information in Youtube Video. . . fouls the pond. Like, duck poop in pond. Until there is full text search functioning on the Youtube videos... and until Youtube make promise to host for all time... why we want put our information into video?

Put information into text
Let Search Engine sift thru your text
Teach search engine to sort fact from non-fact by searching many source
Teach search engine to smell fart

:lol:

I swear people dont know what I am talking about. Sigh... weird generation.

INFORMATION
KEEP IT IN TEXT FORMAT

... carrying on

-methods
Increasing battery voltage and controller current limit will result in a non linear experience

User avatar
methods   100 GW

100 GW
Posts: 5113
Joined: Aug 08 2008 12:08pm
Location: Santa Cruz CA
Contact:

Re: Another full suspension build

Post by methods » Nov 26 2020 2:14pm

Goal:
Start from nowhere, figure out what the hell a Nissan Leaf Cell Module is.

G1
G2
Wh for each
How may Watt hour per dollar each
How much new
How much used
How many cycles. . .

yes, well trod subject... but I specialize in starting fresh. I like to see how long it takes to land on a good forum with a good thread. So far?

... Duck Pond fouled by Business Man

Duck poop on everything, cant find ass with mirror on stick. . . bending over... I grope with both hands... cant find ass.

Keep Looking
Long enough stick
Big enough flashlight. . . Eventually find ass with mirror on stick

-methods
Increasing battery voltage and controller current limit will result in a non linear experience

User avatar
methods   100 GW

100 GW
Posts: 5113
Joined: Aug 08 2008 12:08pm
Location: Santa Cruz CA
Contact:

Re: Another full suspension build

Post by methods » Nov 26 2020 2:17pm

For those who know what I am doing... Key word :: Disinformation Campaign

It is not always some supervillain conspiracy. Sometimes it is just some assholes doing what they do best.
Now...

I happen to KNOW that the Nissan Cells are the Shizzle for the particular Nizzle I am working on. I just need to complete my due diligence before spending $4,200.00 of someone elses moolah... so I can explain my Engineering Decision.

... along the way to that ->
Internet is being fouled by Business People. It was once run by Engineers. . . now run by assBots.

-methods
Increasing battery voltage and controller current limit will result in a non linear experience

User avatar
methods   100 GW

100 GW
Posts: 5113
Joined: Aug 08 2008 12:08pm
Location: Santa Cruz CA
Contact:

Re: Another full suspension build

Post by methods » Nov 26 2020 2:21pm

Eh...
I remember being at Zero and asking why they were rating their cells with an incorrect value.

Answer then?
"Because everyone else is, we have to"

Lol... shit answer for certain.
Good news?
They ended up going up and up and up in density, so by about now, I think they may have actually hit the original numbers. IIRC at the time, someone was multiplying the HVC voltage by the rated AH to come out with WH... when in fact... that is not correct.

... Passing time
... sigh... what to do with my time. . .

Oh yea
I want to buy a bunch of Leaf Cells

I have Tooling Cash
I am told to buy

* Solar Panels
* Inverter
* Large pile of batteries
* 2pcs Ebike that thrash balls

That is what head of Promotions wants, so that is what I am doing (sorta...). At this exact moment in time I am . . . expressing frustration with the reality of reality.

-methods
Increasing battery voltage and controller current limit will result in a non linear experience

User avatar
methods   100 GW

100 GW
Posts: 5113
Joined: Aug 08 2008 12:08pm
Location: Santa Cruz CA
Contact:

Re: Another full suspension build

Post by methods » Nov 26 2020 2:25pm

"Define Success and develop metrics for measuring your progress toward that"
* Build Ebike that is rad
* Build Solar Battery that is rad

"Define Requirements"
* Must use Leaf cells
* Must use Hub Motor
* Must DIY all of it
* Must use used solar panels
* Must go as used as possible on everything. . .

Ok
What to buy first?

Batteries are the most important and expensive part of a build. The more you buy, the cheaper they get. . . so buy them as a lot and make sure you dont get ripped off

OK

So... How much to buy?
$1k?
$2k?

Start with random number, see what happens. Watch out for Krooks!

-methods
Increasing battery voltage and controller current limit will result in a non linear experience

User avatar
methods   100 GW

100 GW
Posts: 5113
Joined: Aug 08 2008 12:08pm
Location: Santa Cruz CA
Contact:

Re: Another full suspension build

Post by methods » Nov 26 2020 2:42pm

Meh
Frustrated with my information searches.

Off to go sort the Camping gear.

Going Offroading this weekend in Hollister Hills if anyone wants to get into that sort of thing. I am taking an 89' 4-Runner. Guy I am going with has an insanely capable Jeep. My goal. . . just to keep up with him.

As for camping
... this year we are going Winter Camping. Goal is to fight the cold. . . so... Generator, Battery pack, heaters. . . cant always burn wood for heat. Sometimes you need to store energy (in gas can or battery pack) and discharge it to stay warm.

-methods
Increasing battery voltage and controller current limit will result in a non linear experience

User avatar
methods   100 GW

100 GW
Posts: 5113
Joined: Aug 08 2008 12:08pm
Location: Santa Cruz CA
Contact:

Re: Another full suspension build

Post by methods » Nov 26 2020 2:44pm

Note
I have been CRANKING PCB layouts day after day after day after day after day. . . and now the neurosis of that exercise is creeping out. I am enjoying being non-productive at the moment :kff:

...
Guy just texted me
I asked him for a Battery Reference, cash in hand
He told me to Bugger Off - its Thanks Giving

:mrgreen:

-methods
Increasing battery voltage and controller current limit will result in a non linear experience

User avatar
methods   100 GW

100 GW
Posts: 5113
Joined: Aug 08 2008 12:08pm
Location: Santa Cruz CA
Contact:

Re: Another full suspension build

Post by methods » Nov 26 2020 3:02pm

How we go after it (Garage Work). . .

[youtube]TKOOZOwpq0Y[/youtube]

-methods
Increasing battery voltage and controller current limit will result in a non linear experience

john61ct   100 GW

100 GW
Posts: 7579
Joined: Dec 18 2018 2:06pm

Re: Another full suspension build

Post by john61ct » Nov 26 2020 3:22pm

WAGO are the (far superior) wire nuts as far as Europe is concerned, great stuff where quick connect/disconnect is needed.

Still prefer crimped ring terminals and studded busbars for bigger more permanent cases.

_______
I share your dislike of substantial info trapped in YT videos always prefer text and a diagram or two.

For a tricky visual procedural howto sure, but minimum length, a minute or two, linked from the real info store.

Pentti M Reku   10 mW

10 mW
Posts: 28
Joined: Oct 29 2020 2:51am

Re: Another full suspension build

Post by Pentti M Reku » Nov 27 2020 5:25am

Hey, just a friendly reminder for anyone getting into these Nissan cells. Factor in the degradation in your wh/$ estimates! Unless sure, buy capacity tested modules from a reputable seller.

User avatar
methods   100 GW

100 GW
Posts: 5113
Joined: Aug 08 2008 12:08pm
Location: Santa Cruz CA
Contact:

Re: Another full suspension build

Post by methods » Nov 27 2020 10:37am

Ok, back on air.
First a word from our Sponsors::

"Woke up quick at about noon. . . Just thought that I had to be in Compton soon. I gotta get drunk before the day begins... Before my mother starts bitchin' about my friends"

-RIP Easy-E

...

Scrolling up, I see signs of life.
Pentti M Reku wrote:
Nov 27 2020 5:25am
Hey, just a friendly reminder for anyone getting into these Nissan cells. Factor in the degradation in your wh/$ estimates! Unless sure, buy capacity tested modules from a reputable seller.
Very good advice!
Thank you sir.

My first large battery purchase was $5k cash in a garage at night. Nearly all the cells turned out to have a tiny fraction of the 10Wh expected. Lessons learned are not soon forgotten.

I surveyed a dozen suppliers and found the following to be true

* Some are selling for a suspiciously low price. There I assume EOL cells.
* Some sellers are clearly calling out a usable WH or AH range guaranteed.
* Some sellers are shipping used goods and not even calling it out.
* Some folks can get the Modules direct from the factory on pallets.

All good to know.
In the good to know category, Ryobi has treated me QUITE WELL over the years. They did (thru Home Depot) sell me to bunk fast chargers, but HD replaced both of those and now I am back on track. I most recently got the hand held inflator... Slow but good is my review. SOOooooo much better than the air compressor.

Onward

Another member contributed the following::
john61ct wrote:
Nov 26 2020 3:22pm
WAGO are the (far superior) wire nuts as far as Europe is concerned, great stuff where quick connect/disconnect is needed.

Still prefer crimped ring terminals and studded busbars for bigger more permanent cases.
My favorite WAGO picture (other than the one posted) is this one
WagoWIN.png
WagoWIN.png (892.5 KiB) Viewed 1681 times
Who does not want to follow that work!?!?

As for Ring Terminals and busbars... thanks for the reminder. For me, I do not like crimping any kind of Ring Terminal that has a crappy plastic shield around the crimp area. I prefer closed to open crimp cups. For a crimper, in order:

* Battery Powered Crimper (Runs on a tool pack, does up and over #0000... super fast, the only way to win)
* Standard Hydraulic Crimper (can be slow and fussy, heavy)
* Mechanical Leverage Crimper (I have broken them in half, pinging people in the back of the head)
* Hand Tools (I dont use hand tools for crimping rings... unless they are sub 10AWG)
* Hammer Crimp (Only in an emergency)
* Torch and solder (I have done it. . .)
* Roofing Soldering Iron (A soldering iron the size of your arm, solders that shit in like a moment)

That is just the big stuff. For the smaller stuff, say 16AWG to 10AWG I prefer to visually inspect my crimps. For any crimp done by a hand tool I require

* Leveraged
* Ratcheting

I prefer

* Change-out tooling (multiple tool heads as opposed to multiple slots in one head)
* Release for the ratchet
* Most importantly, An alignment cup

On "Real Crimpers" (like a $420 Molex) there is a $80 add-on feature that perfectly aligns a crimp with its crimper. Always some sort of Clap-Trap that ... say... brings down a spring-loaded bar... that slides into a known gap in the terminal... that aligns it for depth and keeps it flat

(A good post would show pictures of all these things, I am not currently a good poster... but I post fact)

Back to Ring Terminals specifically

* I do not use raw copper as they corrode
* I prefer closed crimp... and I can fit what I can fit
* Where required I do at times over-fill open crimps, but you gotta do this only in a pinch
I leave my crimps EXPOSED and I do not back-shrink

Rational:

* Heat shrink costs money and takes time
* Ring terminals are by definition exposed
* Covering a crimp with shrink just hides the quality of the work

The only time I would heat shrink a terminal splice is for Strain Relief

* 4:1 Ratio heat shrink, sized VERY LARGE, and shrunk down >3X, for a THICK WALL
* Adhesive lined!!! and when we shrink that far, it goops out the front and back
* This becomes extremely rigid, so set your bends
* As robust as robust gets, non-reworkable

To contrast that -
When some clown uses thin wall heat shrink, sizes it almost exactly to the wire size, it shrinks a little, you can see every detail protruding thru...

Listen guys
Where we are using Heat Shrink to Protect
You grossly over-size the shrink to the work.
If it starts out with a 0.010" wall... and you shrink it... that wall ends up MUCH THICKER when you get down to the >3X ratios!!!

All direct burial and military type stuff will have properties like

* 4X Shrink Ratio
* Adhesive lined, water tight
* Oil and Solvent Resistant
* UV Resistant
* Abrasion Resistant
* Clear markings of Pedigree
* Expensive
* Very rigid once set - provides strain relief

:mrgreen:

Now we have a thread going. Thanks for lighting that off brother.

john61ct wrote:
Nov 26 2020 3:22pm
I share your dislike of substantial info trapped in YT videos always prefer text and a diagram or two.

For a tricky visual procedural how to sure, but minimum length, a minute or two, linked from the real info store.
My primary gripe is that it does not come up on a good Text Search.
My secondary gripe is that it focuses too much on Hollywood Bullshit.

We are squarely in the middle of NURD LAND over here. . . and looking cool earns ZERO POINTS. My hero's in life. . . are cool for reasons . . . that rarely show up in a Youtube Video.

anyhow
Thanks for chiming in guys. I get tired of the constant "Lurk ask question, Person Answer" thing. Every once in a while I like an excuse to perform an Information Dump. To spur this, we require Dialog.

Live the Dream

-methods
Increasing battery voltage and controller current limit will result in a non linear experience

User avatar
methods   100 GW

100 GW
Posts: 5113
Joined: Aug 08 2008 12:08pm
Location: Santa Cruz CA
Contact:

Re: Another full suspension build

Post by methods » Nov 27 2020 11:04am

Information and IP

Things that do not fall under IP that someone can own:

* Tools and Materials
* Anything falling under Test
* Methods and ways

Someone can own a "PROCESS" but they can not own a Method or a Way.

Nobody can own or control TEST. . . the ability to TEST is a HUMAN RIGHT

Tools and Materials which are available on the open market are FAIR GAME

...

Now I am going to cross-link some Internet hosted images. This is a NO-NO, but I am in a hurry. I will back the pics with links, so if they go dead in the future you can find them.

I use GOOGLE IMAGE SEARCH at least half the time. I search by Images***

Image
https://www.google.com/search?q=battery+powered+crimper

.
.

Image
Mechanical Leverage tool that sucks

.
.

Image
Hydraulic Crmiper, works plenty good

To get a good crimp we have to match

* Lug or Terminal (to)
* AWG of wire (to)
* Tooling head (to)
* Proper tool

The best will stamp the crimp with the die used.

You know you have F'ed up in some way if you find

* Razor sharp squish-out of lug on either side. DONT CUT THAT is my advice.
* Any crimp that will let go before the copper breaks

What we are after is a GAS TIGHT CRIMP. . . learned that in HighSchool. The failure of a crimp is NOT going loose (tho it can be)... in fact... the failure of a crimp is corrosion.

* Growing little crystals*

You can prove this with the Car Battery Test. Just leave your terminals shitty and eventually, one day, your car wont start. That is because a layer of non-conductive shit has grown between the contacts. To remedy this

* Remove the terminals
* Mechanically clean the posts and clamps
* Chemically clean the posts and clamps
* Chemically treat the posts and clamps
* Mechanically fasten
* Chemically over-coat this

Then... get the trickle charger (SLOW) going on the battery to bring it back up. If you were still at something like 8V... you can recover. If you were dead for any amount of time, recycle the 12V Lead Acid battery.

... Just went thru the above the other day. I have been running tests on Treated vs Untreated terminals. I have changed my procedure since the year 1995.

* I used to use water and not an antifreeze mix
* I used to pay no attention to my terminal quality

Well... that was bastard thinking. I had one engine rust out due to lack of Rust Inhibitor in the Antifreeze. I had another (Audi Turbo) overheat over and over on water. Once I added some antifreeze. . . ran like a jem.

So
Use chemicals other than water in cooling systems.

For Battery Terminals
I did a writeup the other day. The two chemicals I used... one was a terminal cleaner and the other was an overcoat. N E V E R spray the over-coat until A F T E R you securely fasten the terminals. If you spray it on first, you will have the opposite effect intended.

er... Three chemicals

* Terminal Cleaner
* Dielectric Grease
* Terminal Overcoat

If you count the sacrificial pads, three chemicals. Sacrificial battery pads are like Zinc on a steel fence. They are "easier to eat" for electrochemical process, so they "give up first" in the fight, further protecting your conductive interface. I now swear by those, and they work.

... You can protect an electrical contact by

* Using something like Gold
* Using something soft that scrapes away
* Using a Grease that is Dielectric
* Using an IP67 rated, air tight connector
* Using such clamping force that no gas can enter
. . . .

Ok, off to go to work. I am currently building custom USB-C cables that are IP66. In this case I am down-converting to USB 2.0 so I only need 4 wires. The trick here. . . is to always remember. . . that for traditional USB you have ONE DIRECTION

Traditional USB
* Upstream Facing
* Downstream Facing

For USB-C. . . not only can you flip the connector, but the protocol allows you to be Master or Slave (sorry for the reference). If downstream facing, you are master of a device. If Upstream facing, you are not in control.

...
USB-C can be used in place of Traditional USB in all applications!

* USB Mini
* USB Micro
* Anything found on an Arduino
* Anything that hooks to an FTDI chip
* Anything that takes a direct USB 2.0 connection. . .

All you have to do is short a few wires and add two resistors.

* Two resistors to ground (5.1K) indicate that you are Upward Facing
* Two resistors to 5V (about 50K) indicate that you are Downward Facing

In the selection of these values (which above assume a 5V power source, but it may be different) you can set the power limits for charge. Maybe half an amp, maybe much more.

:mrgreen:

Anyhow... you can take any standard Arduino file

* Remove the shit microUSB
* Place a GOOD QUALITY, THRU HOLE, HYBRID USB-C connector
* Add two resistors to ground
* Short a couple pins
* Attach D+ and D-
* Add +5V and GND

And... It appears for all practical purposes... as exactly the same as traditional USB 2.0

OK BYE

-methods
Increasing battery voltage and controller current limit will result in a non linear experience

User avatar
methods   100 GW

100 GW
Posts: 5113
Joined: Aug 08 2008 12:08pm
Location: Santa Cruz CA
Contact:

Re: Another full suspension build

Post by methods » Nov 27 2020 11:20am

Procurement of Materials

I only use JIT (Just in Time) suppliers for tools and materials. Up until last week, I had HomeDepot on my JIT list. I had them marked as "Walk in Only"... because their shipping SUCKS ASS. . . but... I have dropped HD from our JIT list.

Situation
* Showing 1 in stock
* Drive down there
* Get the run-around
* Nothing in stock

Turns out, there is a BHoLT (Black Hole of Lost Time) at Home Depot. If there is Quantity 1 in stock, it does not always trigger a re-order. Home Depot gets so much theft, that this happens regularly. I went down to purchase an EU2200i Generator. . . and. . . some clown had already hid it in the bushes or walked out the door with it.

Home Depot
Instead of making the situation right immediately. . . told me "It will be at least 2 weeks"

:shock: 8) :roll:

Eat a Phat One Home Depot
methods waits 2 weeks for N O T H I N G
Furthermore - Dropping you from our JIT "OK LIST".

. . .
Yea, so theft is a real problem at Home Depot. The folks working there, I think they get yelled at when they report it... so ... it is a subject of avoidance (just like in the Military - EH HEM m'fers). Get that ish under control.

so...
being that reality is what it is... I have to put Amazon back on the JIT list. Amazon was missing delivery dates so I dropped them for the last $50k in spend. LOL -> I have not bought ANYTHING off of Amazon in months.

But
They... do... offer a really good service

So
For today... I am putting Amazon back in play and my Generator is in the shopping cart for a PRIME assured delivery.

* I only buy from Prime
* I only accept 2 day maximum shipping (I prefer overnight)
* I prefer UPS over FedEx, I do not use USPS

:D

Yea. . . I work hardcore startups where Monday you find out something is needed that does not exist, and Friday you are putting things into service. To do this you have to have reps under your belt. Everything has to be lined up and executed. You ONLY use Trusted and JIT (pedigree) sources. . .

* I do not buy garbage of alibaba
* I do not drop-ship from China
* I do not buy from Mom and Pops websites
* I do not save $10 doing slow boat shipping. . .

Lol
I get it here, I get it right, shit gets done.

Anyhow
... I got there by doing the same in my hobbies for years and years. I know EXACTLY how to execute on a 5 day schedule and every single frocking time I let some greenhorn tell me different. . . (WE FAIL).

Word to the wise

* Reliability
* Safety
* Quality
* Value

Sort in that order if you want to win on a tight schedule every time. Once you have something working, you can go one of two directions

* Make it Cheaper
* Make it Smaller

If you want to make it smaller, price will likely go up.
If you want to make it cheaper, size will likely go up.
If you want to make it smaller and cheaper. . . . Reliability, Safety, and Quality will go down

Right?
Same ol tune.

-methods
Increasing battery voltage and controller current limit will result in a non linear experience

User avatar
methods   100 GW

100 GW
Posts: 5113
Joined: Aug 08 2008 12:08pm
Location: Santa Cruz CA
Contact:

Re: Another full suspension build

Post by methods » Nov 27 2020 11:39am

Know your Science

Every ebike needs a proper PH sensor*

Every search starts at GOOGLE and not down on the sellers website*

Every good search starts with key word "Arduino"

"Arduino PH Sensor"
Ok...
This means you are looking for

* Probe (Lab or Standard Grade)
* PCB (for signal conditioning)

If you want to take (any) $300 measurement for $30, then you are going to have to do some C.O.T.S. (Commercial Off The Shelf) Plumbing. COTS plumbing means

* Cables and Connectors
* Housing
* BYOA (Bring Your Own Arduino)

Where I am at. . . I usually spin my own boards. . . but for slam-together, I use COTS parts with minimal plumbing.

Seller:: Gravity
Makes really good value project stuff. You absolutely have to "Value Add" to get the stuff to work right (meaning wire it, code it, etc)... but if you want absolute simple, dead nuts working stuff... for a dime on the dollar... I use Gravity.

https://www.dfrobot.com/product-1782.html

That looks good
The Professional Probes are just ... a bit tighter in the measurement, more robust to extreme temperature and PH, last longer, more linear, go out of cal less.

If you have a cal kit, dont need it

so...
For doing expensive things on the cheap

* Search with Google
* Use key word "Arduino"
* Know your COTS Plumbing

:mrgreen:

Off to go do more shopping. I got the 150G reef tank cycled and running, now I need closed loop PH control on it if I am going to start breeding starfish again.

-methods
Increasing battery voltage and controller current limit will result in a non linear experience

User avatar
methods   100 GW

100 GW
Posts: 5113
Joined: Aug 08 2008 12:08pm
Location: Santa Cruz CA
Contact:

Re: Another full suspension build

Post by methods » Nov 27 2020 11:56am

Kits

I only buy a kit the "first time". After that, I "kit up". I just bought this crap.
PHsolution.png
PHsolution.png (246.92 KiB) Viewed 1673 times
PHprobe.png
PHprobe.png (360 KiB) Viewed 1673 times
We will see about the circuit. If it does not do well, I will modify it. Usually this means an LPF (Low Pass Filter) on the analog output. 4.78K in series with a 0.1uF ceramic to ground**

The probe... I prefer to design around as common of probes as possible. The clear Blue or Red probes... but... we will try this. I will NOT leave this in the solution. The procedure will be

* Get out the kit
* Calibrate the kit
* Take the measurement
* Clean the kit

:mrgreen:

What we are working on over here is **PH BUFFER** and most certainly NOT **PH CONTROL**. PH Control is what a chemical supplier likes you to do. This is where you keep adding acid and base in a retarded attempt to hold a given PH. What you in actuality want to do, is increase your PH BUFFER.... so... resistance to change in pH*

Doing so, will result in the win

eh... Same is true in many sectors. You can NOT listen to the marketing and business people. They are in the business of making profit by selling you shit that you do not need. Be smarter than that.

-methods
Increasing battery voltage and controller current limit will result in a non linear experience

User avatar
methods   100 GW

100 GW
Posts: 5113
Joined: Aug 08 2008 12:08pm
Location: Santa Cruz CA
Contact:

Re: Another full suspension build

Post by methods » Nov 27 2020 12:33pm

Making Major Purchases

When you are making a "major purchase" - say thousands to $49,999.00... you follow a procedure.

* Noodle it for a month or two. Really decide on your requirements.

* Must be Isolated
* Must be at least 200Mhz
* Must be at least 2 channel
* Must be Used (paying 50% or less)
* Must be very trusted name brand
* Must be procured thru a source that is known (no street deals)
* Must come with all the accessories, more is better

Then collect your desirements. Accessories are **very expensive** so know what you are looking for and find the person who bought the "kit and caboodle" -> Buy that one.

Desirements
* Battery Powered
* Some kind of case, water resistant better
* Extra stuff. . . like little clips and probes

Once I know the basics

* Need Case
* Requirements
* Desirements

I move on to the first bounding of the problem

* Set the price range
* Decide where you are going to buy it

...

I am doing a lot of High Voltage work now

* AC Mains in 120, 240, 480
* DC Live up to 1,000V
* Noise is a major issue

I need to be able to see noise in a system that is energized, out in the field, in a safe way

* O-Scopes are Earth Grounded and Probe to probe grounded
* O-Scopes require a 120V AC Source
* O-Scopes do NOT travel well in the back of a service vehicle
* O-Scopes rarely see more than 2 probes attached

PAUSE (gotta go handle something)
Will RESUME on "Downs election of Capital Purchases"

I just bought a -- B A D - A S S -- Scopemeter for field work. 200Mhz Isolated, battery powered!

-methods
Increasing battery voltage and controller current limit will result in a non linear experience

User avatar
methods   100 GW

100 GW
Posts: 5113
Joined: Aug 08 2008 12:08pm
Location: Santa Cruz CA
Contact:

Re: Another full suspension build

Post by methods » Nov 29 2020 9:39am

Systems Engineering

When you get to the point where you have done 1, 10, 100 singularity projects, you start to lean in to projects of more complexity. Systems Engineering is what it was called when I worked under Lockheed Martin for a decade.

...

Over here at SE, we are bringing together no fewer than 8 systems at a time. In the end (it all looks the same to me). Here are some weekend pictures, while I wait for parts and materials to ship.

Procurement

Even tho I am pissed at Home Depot for not properly executing on Stock Management, I still went over there and bought stuff on Rotten Friday.
SystemsEngineering_001.jpg
SystemsEngineering_001.jpg (789.86 KiB) Viewed 1584 times
* Ratcheting Boxends
* 2pcs Ryobi 4Ah, 18V pack
* 1pcs Ryobi bit set

While I was there I saw the Ryobi Ninja :mrgreen:
We exchanged a Virtual Covid Fist Bump, and I expressed great gratitude for the work they have done for the community. Like I always tell people. . . . "My old Blue Ryobi tools... that you can get for $5 at the Flea. . . STILL WORK with the newest packs they push out".

That is the extremely rare WIN WIN

...
SystemsEngineering_002.jpg
SystemsEngineering_002.jpg (606.2 KiB) Viewed 1584 times
Most of what I was after at Gaffle Depot was some Plumbing parts. Plumbing is important, and it is only going to get more important.

This particular material - PVC
The pipe is Inch and a Quarter ID <<ID>> in Schedule 40

Typically it is bonded thru the use of a Primer + a Chemical Welding goop. Traditionally ABS uses ABS glue and PVC uses PVC Primer then PVC Glue. ... Now there are glues that are cross-functional... between ABS and PVC. This may not cause you to grow a (fem)rection but if you are paying attention, it should*

...

Above are a few common parts that I use. At the top is a rubber adapter. These come in many shapes and sizes and that is how I generally adapt PVC to some random or unknown shit. Beware that the rubber coupler is NOT rated for any sort of pressure, so where you see me using it below.... it is actually under Vacuum :shock:

Coming down from that, a Union
You absolutely need to use Unions and they are nothing but a screw-together point with a phat O-Ring. They cost only a few bucks ($6 for these) and if you compare the cost of 1.25" hot tub hose, you will realize quickly that it is much cheaper to hard-plumb (WITH) breakaways, than to soft plumb. I rarely Soft Plumb PVC. I do often soft-plumb PEX

OH
ALERT
I had my first to PEX failures

* Rat Chew
* UV Failure

I dont want to go into it deep here, but the rat chew was reported by a farmer who ran the pex directly thru a wood wall. As the rats chewed the wood, they chewed the pex a little, springing a leak. SO - run the Brass (or whatever) when you go thru walls that are exposed to rats

The second failure was FRUCKING EPIC. I wanted to test the 100hr rating of direct UV. Uh... yea guys... failure was real bad. Hose broke up in sections (Crack, Crack, Crack, Crack). Held up for almost a year, then catastrophic failure when the hose got jostled.

SO...
If you are running PEX anywhere that is exposed, you absolutely must protect it from the sun. This particular PEX was red, 1/2", from Home Depot or Sketch Lumber. I may still have the brand, and it may have been off brand.

... Along those lines, I started using the large diameter flexible gas lines (Natural Gas, 1"). That stuff too is not rated for direct sunlight and I can attest that within 3 months of direct UV exposure the yellow over-coat bleaches out. It wont last, so I am replacing the patch that I ran the test on.

... Back on track

Final thing in the list (way above) is a "Quarter Turn Ball Valve". These are much harder to turn, more gross of a setting, but simple, cheap, and do not leak externally. I use these all the time and they come in metal and PVC. The PVC I use for corrosive liquids, but for gas applications I always use a metal valve. The valves come in RED and YELLOW. . . and my understanding (from way back when) is that some valves are set up to leak gasses that are smaller than the gas they are intended to hold (eh hem, information from LFP, unsubstantiated).

I use the Yellow valves, they cost about $10 and last forever if you slightly oil them.
SystemsEngineering_003.jpg
SystemsEngineering_003.jpg (250.5 KiB) Viewed 1584 times
So. . . Plumbing up some PVC with a dual purpose glue. The reason you may be interested, is 3D printing. I am sure folks have figured out that you can glue two 3D printed parts together. I am not sure if they have figured out all the solvents and glues and such.
SystemsEngineering_006.jpg
SystemsEngineering_006.jpg (272.56 KiB) Viewed 1584 times
Salt Spray Testing is what this is about. Specific Gravity of 0.026.
SystemsEngineering_007.jpg
SystemsEngineering_007.jpg (355.82 KiB) Viewed 1584 times
* Purple Primer = Trusted but stains
* Gray Fast Set = Seperated on me, went to clumps, I dont trust it, used it on one joint, I use other colors usually
* All Purpose = Under Evaluation for....

* Set Time
* Strength
* Strength over time
* Resistance to corrosives/solvants
* Can life
* Can life after opening. . .

See how this works? Notice above some of my cans have RUST on the top. Right?
Pay attention.

...
SystemsEngineering_008.jpg
SystemsEngineering_008.jpg (371.01 KiB) Viewed 1584 times
So above I did one joint in Gray (known BAD!) and the rest primed followed by Multi. I dont know whether you are supposed to prime first with multi, but I do... because that is what the Union Guys will do. Best to find out ASAP.

... I am building clap-trap assemblies that fit together like Lego's. The key to this. . . is building a SLOT and not a HOLE where things come thru a bulkhead (eh hem). You then cover the slot (or oversized hole) with a PLATE... but to show the old way, I did it below with nothing but a hole saw.

Clearances on this are 0.020 depending on room temperature. You CAN jigsaw the vertical piece in and out, but you have to hit just the right angles*
SystemsEngineering_010.jpg
SystemsEngineering_010.jpg (470.89 KiB) Viewed 1584 times
-methods
Increasing battery voltage and controller current limit will result in a non linear experience

Post Reply