CSC 1500w Rear Hub build

spaceship

1 W
Joined
Mar 21, 2022
Messages
62
Location
Vancouver Island, BC
Been interested in building a diy e-bike for several years and finally pulled the trigger on an ebay special, branded as CSC conversion kit, 26" rear wheel 1500watts. I picked up a UPP Triangle battery 52V-20ah with 50A BMS to go along with it and a couple torque arms off amazon. I tuned up this 90s cro-moly steel Marin and got the kit installed. It all came together nicely and is a lot of fun

20220320_180532.jpg
20220320_180522.jpg

I was a little worried the bike would feel sketchy going the rated top speed of 50-60kmph, but the bike feels good cruising at the top speed. I was also worried that the v-brakes wouldn't be good enough but with new brake pads there is tons of stopping power and I can stop very fast if I want to.

I have to say I'm really happy with my first ebike, and of course I immediately need to try and make it better! I'm happy with the top speed (although I wouldn't complain if it went faster) but I'd really like to try and make it torquier. I don't really have a specific range that I am trying to achieve and want to make the ride fun first and foremost!

I'm thinking that upgrading the controller is a thing to consider. The display shows it pushing around 1600w on full throttle but not any more than that. My battery supposedly has a 50A BMS, and it seems like people get away with pushing a lot more than 1500w through these motors in short bursts anyways. The kit came with a generic "14 mosfet 35A controller" Can anyone recommend a good option for upgrading the controller? would the KT 18mosfet 45A controller be a good choice? square wave or sinewave?

20220321_175105.jpg

From what I've read there are only a few dozen motor manufacturers that get rebranded by a hundred sellers, is there a way to identify what motor I have? Here are some pics if anyone can help shed some light. And is there a way to figure out how many turns this motor has? So far what I've read is more turns = more torque but also more heat.

20220321_175923.jpg
20220320_222227.jpg

The UPP battery seems good so far, and was a good value. The case is rugged and it came with a 4A charger. UPP told me that it contains Chinese 18650s at 2500mAh. So at 20Ah that would make this a 14s8p battery. To max out the 50A BMS the cells would need a discharge rate of 6.5A, I'll have to try and find out about that spec.

Any helpful information appreciated! Thanks!
 
52v x 35a is 1820w so thats about right.

It is a nice ebike, the foam padding is a nice touch. Controller bag is a cool thought, but it needs air flow, just keep an eye on it.

Get a 52v 50a controller next if you want more watts.

See the thing with having a triangle bag for the battery is the big calf muscles of the leg cover it up, plus you have black on black on black which is good for hiding the battery. Black motor sticks out a tad, but no big deal. If it becomes one, just cover it up with a rear rack and dirty, moldy pannier bags.
 
spaceship said:
The UPP battery seems good so far, and was a good value. The case is rugged and it came with a 4A charger. UPP told me that it contains Chinese 18650s at 2500mAh. So at 20Ah that would make this a 14s8p battery. To max out the 50A BMS the cells would need a discharge rate of 6.5A, I'll have to try and find out about that spec.

Any helpful information appreciated! Thanks!

I have that pack, UPP 14S8P of generic 2500mAh cells, but with a 35A BMS, which is probably the right size. The pack could supply 2000W climbing 20% for maybe a half mile whenever I needed it to (~40A), but with a fair amount of voltage sag. 50A continuous isn't going to happen and probably a quick way to kill the pack.
 
E-HP said:
I have that pack, UPP 14S8P of generic 2500mAh cells, but with a 35A BMS, which is probably the right size. The pack could supply 2000W climbing 20% for maybe a half mile whenever I needed it to (~40A), but with a fair amount of voltage sag. 50A continuous isn't going to happen and probably a quick way to kill the pack.

I havn't ran the battery very much yet but I contacted UPP and they provided this information: they are generic 2500mAh cells with 3C discharge rate. So by my understanding this means each cell can discharge up to 7.5A. Meaning that in a 8p configuration the pack should be able to deliver 60A all together, in which case the 50A BMS would be the limiting factor. I don't plan on running it this hard continuously, more so for short bursts of acceleration.
 
calab said:
See the thing with having a triangle bag for the battery is the big calf muscles of the leg cover it up, plus you have black on black on black which is good for hiding the battery. Black motor sticks out a tad, but no big deal. If it becomes one, just cover it up with a rear rack and dirty, moldy pannier bags.

I like the idea of being stealth and was looking at triangle bags, but the battery is pretty heavy and am unsure that straps would hold it securely enough. The foam was just what the battery came packaged in, im going to keep my eyes out for some black foam to use instead. I've been reading about and seeing videos of battery fires lately, so want to make sure my battery is well secured and not bumping around or vibrating a bunch
 
spaceship said:
I like the idea of being stealth and was looking at triangle bags, but the battery is pretty heavy and am unsure that straps would hold it securely enough.

I use the bigger ~3/8" cable ties to secure the battery. I used regular cable ties for a couple of years without issues, but had a few snap is a couple of crashes, so switched to the wider ones, which have survived a couple of falls already. No padding since the hard case is pretty close to a press fit into my triangle.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B08K4PTCW1/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o01_s00?ie=UTF8&th=1
I think the hard case would break before these do.
 
The zip ties from home hardware stores suck, go to a fastener store for heavy duty zip ties with a rated weight or go hose clamps.
 
So far I'm having a lot of fun on this, happy with how it came together quickly and didnt cost too much. Im getting a range of 40-50km range going full throttle, some climbing and carrying around my 240lb mass.

I habe around a little with the programming settings on the controller. Is it right to assume I have a KT controller, since the sw900 is a display for KT? Are there any threads that might elaborate more on the different programming parameters? Is it possible or worthwhile to shunt mod this controller, or just use it until I upgrade?

20220321_175105.jpg
 
Yeah the CSC 1500w is a good motor. That was the first hub motor I built for my first DIY build. Still use that motor on a 2000W peak mountain bike setup. Used to have the motor on a 5 kW set up and never smoked it. It definitely got hot but I kept a close eye on the temps. Also UPP is a great battery for the price :thumb:
 
Eastwood said:
Yeah the CSC 1500w is a good motor. That was the first hub motor I built for my first DIY build. Still use that motor on a 2000W peak mountain bike setup. Used to have the motor on a 5 kW set up and never smoked it. It definitely got hot but I kept a close eye on the temps. Also UPP is a great battery for the price :thumb:

Awesome, good to hear that you're still using it. Do you have any more detailed specs on this motor? Or do you know if it is just a rebranding of another motor that is more talked about, like is it the same thing as the Leafbike motor I see mentioned?

Yes, the UPP battery is great for the price. I don't have any comparison point, but I am happy with the performance and range I am getting. So far I have been riding mostly paved roads, using full throttle no pedaling at the top or mid power settings, 40-60kmph speed, and climbing some hills I am getting between 40-50 km range off a full charge. Which is pretty good I think as I am a big guy about 240lbs.

For now I'm enjoying it as is, but I'm sure I'll get interested in updating the controller and battery soon. Do you have any recommendations on this based on your experience?
 
E-HP said:
spaceship said:
Is it right to assume I have a KT controller, since the sw900 is a display for KT?

No. The SW900 works with Bafang controllers
:thumb:

Ok is see, so if I was looking to upgrade the controller I'd have to look for a new display too? Unless I pick another bafang controller I guess
 
spaceship said:
E-HP said:
spaceship said:
Is it right to assume I have a KT controller, since the sw900 is a display for KT?

No. The SW900 works with Bafang controllers
:thumb:

Ok is see, so if I was looking to upgrade the controller I'd have to look for a new display too? Unless I pick another bafang controller I guess
There's other kits that use the same line of controllers and display (e.g. Voilamart), but basically the SW900 works with that line of controllers (DC Moto) that come with many Bafang kits, and the Bafang BBS** mid drives (which is why I assume Bafang makes the controllers)
 
spaceship said:
Awesome, good to hear that you're still using it. Do you have any more detailed specs on this motor? Or do you know if it is just a rebranding of another motor that is more talked about, like is it the same thing as the Leafbike motor I see mentioned?

Yes, the UPP battery is great for the price. I don't have any comparison point, but I am happy with the performance and range I am getting. So far I have been riding mostly paved roads, using full throttle no pedaling at the top or mid power settings, 40-60kmph speed, and climbing some hills I am getting between 40-50 km range off a full charge. Which is pretty good I think as I am a big guy about 240lbs.

I’m not really sure if they make their own stuff or if it’s rebranded. I know when this motor is ran at 72 V when fully charge at 84 V it hits about 51-52 mph. If we have the same winding, which I’m sure we do, I would doubt that company makes different motor winding options.

spaceship said:
For now I'm enjoying it as is, but I'm sure I'll get interested in updating the controller and battery soon. Do you have any recommendations on this based on your experience?

Well the first thing I upgraded with that kit was a better controller. I had that same black zipper bag that contained the controller with the kit I purchased from Amazon. The controller that came with the kit for mine said 40+1. It worked out OK but does get a bit warm when running full throttle.
For that motor I purchased a Sabvoton 7280. 60 DC amps, 150 rated phase, 200amp max phase. It had OK acceleration but after upgrading the controller and then upgraded the motor lol it never ends it’s like a domino effect :lol:
From that motor I went to the MXUS 3k 5T.

I currently run that csc motor on a 48v 30ah battery. But I use the controller that came with the kit. The controller and motor still work like new I’ve had it for a couple of years.
 

Attachments

  • 730C2212-BABC-4D51-89B5-A39D43A55B8E.jpeg
    730C2212-BABC-4D51-89B5-A39D43A55B8E.jpeg
    2.9 MB · Views: 1,295
  • B7B0B20A-D068-476A-9593-8BA3C82185E7.jpeg
    B7B0B20A-D068-476A-9593-8BA3C82185E7.jpeg
    2.1 MB · Views: 1,295
Something to consider if you’re planning to upgrade to better performance with harder acceleration and more torque. Your bike frame is just fine with your current set up but if you start upgrading the components you need to consider how much torque that frame can handle especially because it’s a hard tail. When you get into higher performance set ups it’s better to have rear suspension, that way there’s some give to the frame and you’re not stressing that rear part of the frame as much.
Looks like you have a nice set up with that 52 V battery, I would personally leave it the same. If you want something with more performance just start with a new bike maybe downhill mountain bike. You definitely don’t wanna snap the the frame going too fast or having too much torque, it happens.
 
I've been watching the local used market and managed to pick up this Kona for a good price. I was actually after a different bike for $250 but was too late, however the seller offered this up for $50 and I couldn't say no. The cranks and pedals are pretty crappy but I can swap some parts from my current bike

20220405_193059.jpg

Its got mechanical disk brakes, and with threadless headset I could have the option of upgrading forks (although not sure if I would bother). The one thing that concerns me is that it is aluminum (vs the steel of my current frame), although the drop outs do seem fairly beefy and I'll be using a torque arm on each side.

20220405_194706.jpg

Ill swap everything over this weekend and see how I like it. Also picked up a thumb throttle to try instead of the twist throttle that came in the kit.
 
Eastwood said:
Looks like you have a nice set up with that 52 V battery, I would personally leave it the same. If you want something with more performance just start with a new bike maybe downhill mountain bike. You definitely don’t wanna snap the the frame going too fast or having too much torque, it happens.

I just dont have the budget for an expensive downhill bike. Maybe if I find something 10-15 years old for a great deal, but everyone here in BC is looking for good deals on mountain bikes, so stuff is usually priced high or goes quick. If (when) I am going for something with much more power I think would go the stealth bomber frame route like you did in your build. How do you like that frame?
 
spaceship said:
Eastwood said:
Looks like you have a nice set up with that 52 V battery, I would personally leave it the same. If you want something with more performance just start with a new bike maybe downhill mountain bike. You definitely don’t wanna snap the the frame going too fast or having too much torque, it happens.

I just dont have the budget for an expensive downhill bike. Maybe if I find something 10-15 years old for a great deal, but everyone here in BC is looking for good deals on mountain bikes, so stuff is usually priced high or goes quick. If (when) I am going for something with much more power I think would go the stealth bomber frame route like you did in your build. How do you like that frame?

Yeah downhill bikes are definitely expensive.

The bomber frame is great. Definitely my favorite bike I’ve own including motorcycles. With the bomber frame it gets expensive, especially if it’s done right. I mean you can buy one prebuilt from China for 3K-ish but it won’t have the performance and plus a bunch of cheap parts. Just the battery alone gets pricey. I have 40 ah battery. Would like to build something closer to 60 amp hours when this one starts to die off. I keep spending money on this bike I have to stop :lol:
I’m nowhere near rich, I’m just obsessed :lol:
 
I would rather have a big battery for all my needs that is matched to the motor for just the right cruising experience, the final bike its on can wait, any bike will do to get the kinks worked out. Downhill bike would be good if you have lots of triangle space for the battery.
 
spaceship said:
I've been watching the local used market and managed to pick up this Kona for a good price. I was actually after a different bike for $250 but was too late, however the seller offered this up for $50 and I couldn't say no. The cranks and pedals are pretty crappy but I can swap some parts from my current bike

20220405_193059.jpg

Its got mechanical disk brakes, and with threadless headset I could have the option of upgrading forks (although not sure if I would bother). The one thing that concerns me is that it is aluminum (vs the steel of my current frame), although the drop outs do seem fairly beefy and I'll be using a torque arm on each side.

20220405_194706.jpg

Ill swap everything over this weekend and see how I like it. Also picked up a thumb throttle to try instead of the twist throttle that came in the kit.

Need to be careful there with the threads on the hub cutting into the aluminium dropout. They're normally sharp and can chew through the soft frame alloy in no time.

I put stainless shim steel in to protect it a bit but honestly that's not really enough.
 
:)
mxlemming said:
spaceship said:
I've been watching the local used market and managed to pick up this Kona for a good price. I was actually after a different bike for $250 but was too late, however the seller offered this up for $50 and I couldn't say no. The cranks and pedals are pretty crappy but I can swap some parts from my current bike

20220405_193059.jpg

Its got mechanical disk brakes, and with threadless headset I could have the option of upgrading forks (although not sure if I would bother). The one thing that concerns me is that it is aluminum (vs the steel of my current frame), although the drop outs do seem fairly beefy and I'll be using a torque arm on each side.

20220405_194706.jpg

Ill swap everything over this weekend and see how I like it. Also picked up a thumb throttle to try instead of the twist throttle that came in the kit.

Need to be careful there with the threads on the hub cutting into the aluminium dropout. They're normally sharp and can chew through the soft frame alloy in no time.

I put stainless shim steel in to protect it a bit but honestly that's not really enough.

Yeah I had dropouts that looked very similar to this on a Schwinn mountain bike. I used a file and made the dropout deeper. The threads didn’t bite into the aluminum too much, but paired with torque arms. Once the threads bit into the aluminum them they found their home and didn’t move around too much.
 

Attachments

  • 4BF07D1A-918D-401B-88BC-1EFA279EEA1A.jpeg
    4BF07D1A-918D-401B-88BC-1EFA279EEA1A.jpeg
    2.9 MB · Views: 1,157
  • FDC5A7D3-9BA0-4BE7-A6C4-5A48C1F209E5.jpeg
    FDC5A7D3-9BA0-4BE7-A6C4-5A48C1F209E5.jpeg
    3.1 MB · Views: 1,157
I started swapping over to the new frame and when I was mounting the hubmotor wheel it started getting really stiff to turn. I opened the hub to investigate and it seemed like it was off center and sticking to/rubbing on the magnets. I was able to get the hub covers back on and it seemed to re-center itself and turn fine after but is a little odd. I did get a similar sensation a few times while riding it since new, what could cause that? Some sort of physical interference? I'll have to pick up a gear puller to completely remove the stator and take a look.

20220409_170858.jpg
20220409_170854.jpg

I was able to see that the stator is labeled 12x5 which I assume means 12 wire 5 turns? I don't have a complete grasp of what it means but useful to have the info.
 
spaceship said:
I started swapping over to the new frame and when I was mounting the hubmotor wheel it started getting really stiff to turn. I opened the hub to investigate and it seemed like it was off center and sticking to/rubbing on the magnets. I was able to get the hub covers back on and it seemed to re-center itself and turn fine after but is a little odd. I did get a similar sensation a few times while riding it since new, what could cause that? Some sort of physical interference? I'll have to pick up a gear puller to completely remove the stator and take a look.

20220409_170858.jpg
20220409_170854.jpg

I was able to see that the stator is labeled 12x5 which I assume means 12 wire 5 turns? I don't have a complete grasp of what it means but useful to have the info.

Sounds like bad bearing, would change them out. I’ve had this issue a few times. In fact my new hub motor came with a faulty bearing. It had some roughness when I would turn the wheel. These companies mass-produce these motors and they’re probably not checking for each bearing to make sure they’re functioning correctly. Just swap them out. Normally the size is printed on the black dust cover but you could also use a caliper to measure.
 
I continued converting over to the new bike. I cut and drilled the torque arms to to screw directly into the drop outs. They should work well enough for now, I might try and make custom single piece ones later.

20220410_154548.jpg
20220410_154553.jpg

Overall its coming together nice. Going with throttle and display only, no brake sensors or pedal assist. Also trying switching to a thumb throttle instead of twist. There is less space in the triangle so I had to change where I am mounting the controller and I ditched the controller bag. The connections are more exposed now, but I will try and figure out something to enclose them and tidy it up a bit. I also gave the controller a coat of black paint. Again I used a bit of foam to pad the battery a bit from vibration/shock, this time I used some insulation tubes for copper plumbing

20220410_182934.jpg
20220410_182954.jpg
20220410_182940.jpg

I did take it for a short test ride with only the front brakes and one thing I noticed was when braking hard using only the front brake the front weel is tweaking to the side quite a bit, to the point of nearly rubbing against the fork. I've read that this is either because of the quick release spindle not holding tight enough, or the forks flexing, or the wheel flexing, or a combination of.

20220415_100606.jpg
20220415_100615.jpg

What do you guys think, is it worth it to upgrade the fork and maybe front wheel on this bike, or just save up for a better overall bike? If so what sort of fork would be a good option? The current fork is 1 1/8" straight.
 
spaceship said:
What do you guys think, is it worth it to upgrade the fork and maybe front wheel on this bike, or just save up for a better overall bike? If so what sort of fork would be a good option? The current fork is 1 1/8" straight.
Addressed on your other dup post on this subject. :)

Somebody will probably come along shortly to ask you to combine the double posts.
 
Back
Top