Mark_A_W's DH Team/MAC Shanghai/64v Headway build

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Re: Mark_A_W's DH Team/MAC Shanghai/60v Headway build

Post by full-throttle » Mar 30 2010 5:51am

Hyena, I wouldn't refuse an offer like that :wink: BMC V2-S is a MAC (or Puma if you like) with most of the bugs ironed out.

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Re: Mark_A_W's DH Team/MAC Shanghai/60v Headway build

Post by Hyena » Mar 30 2010 6:50am

voicecoils wrote:Come up and have a ride on the BMC V2-S powered Kona
Where's up ? I'm keen for a ride but unfortunately am tied up with my sisters wedding this long weekend.
I should have my Norco back together in another week then I'll race ya :twisted:
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Re: Mark_A_W's DH Team/MAC Shanghai/60v Headway build

Post by Mark_A_W » Mar 30 2010 7:26am

full-throttle wrote: with most of the bugs ironed out.
Famous last words....

Check your keyway/key and gear pins after a few weeks at 37A.
Under construction: Giant DH Team, MAC Shanghai, Infineon 18 FET controller, 64v Headway battery. LINK!!

Retired: Kona Dawg Dually + Bomber Triple Clamp forks with Nine Continents front hub motor, 48v 10Ah Headway LiFePO4 Pack + 12v 10Ah Headway LiFePO4 booster pack (nominal 64v).

Powered by the sun :)

Dead: Jamis Dakar frame, Mongoose Pro Downhill frame, cooked Lipo booster pack....and various other bits and pieces...

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Re: Mark_A_W's DH Team/MAC Shanghai/60v Headway build

Post by voicecoils » Mar 30 2010 8:27am

Mark_A_W wrote:
full-throttle wrote: with most of the bugs ironed out.
Famous last words....

Check your keyway/key and gear pins after a few weeks at 37A.
I will check. I'm not running as high a voltage as you with my 15S lipo pack so peak power ends up being about the same as your 20 cell lifepo4 setup limited to 28.5A.

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Re: Mark_A_W's DH Team/MAC Shanghai/60v Headway build

Post by AussieJester » Mar 30 2010 8:46am

Hyena wrote: unfortunately am tied up with my sisters wedding this long weekend.
Oh mate... :: sigh :: :mrgreen: Always the "bridesmaid" never the bride... :mrgreen:

I was greasing up some wheel bearings over the weekend with molybdenum grease and found my tin of straight graphite, i
wonder if half a cup of this would go in a geared frock Mark instead of oil? I thought it might stay in the frock a little longer than the oil that was mentioned 'leaked' a lil? Just a thought anywayz...

When we getting pics of the oober L337 fiberglass battery box mate im very keen to see how it came out?

KiM

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Re: Mark_A_W's DH Team/MAC Shanghai/60v Headway build

Post by Hyena » Mar 30 2010 6:58pm

voicecoils wrote:I'm not running as high a voltage as you with my 15S lipo pack so peak power ends up being about the same as your 20 cell lifepo4 setup limited to 28.5A.
Cool, I also have a 15S lipo pack I'm using on one of my bikes so it'll be interesting to compare how they perform.
Your BMC has the composite gears though right ?
AussieJester wrote:Oh mate... :: sigh :: :mrgreen: Always the "bridesmaid" never the bride... :mrgreen:
Stop spamming the forum with photoshopped pictures of me you asshat :lol:
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Re: Mark_A_W's DH Team/MAC Shanghai/60v Headway build

Post by Mark_A_W » Mar 30 2010 7:19pm

Here are some almost up to date pics.

Changes since these pics:

- Box is 15mm narrower (and recentered to suit)

- 3mm Stainless Tube struts added to rear mudguard, drilled into the protective plastic bosses I added near the axles


Notice I added RC balance connections to the Cells. Now I can check all cell voltages easily with an RC cell monitor. Turns out the BMS is balancing quite well....or the cells have a natural tendency to sit at 3.31v. Even the 4 cells without a BMS sit at 3.31v, despite being individually charged to ~3.65v.
Attachments
box1.jpg
box2.jpg
box3.jpg
box4.jpg
box5.jpg
box6.jpg
box7.jpg
box8.jpg
box9.jpg
Under construction: Giant DH Team, MAC Shanghai, Infineon 18 FET controller, 64v Headway battery. LINK!!

Retired: Kona Dawg Dually + Bomber Triple Clamp forks with Nine Continents front hub motor, 48v 10Ah Headway LiFePO4 Pack + 12v 10Ah Headway LiFePO4 booster pack (nominal 64v).

Powered by the sun :)

Dead: Jamis Dakar frame, Mongoose Pro Downhill frame, cooked Lipo booster pack....and various other bits and pieces...

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Re: Mark_A_W's DH Team/MAC Shanghai/60v Headway build

Post by doc007 » Mar 30 2010 8:23pm

Wow your case came out very nice!

I noticed from the pics that you're riding with clipless pedals. Any particular reason why you chose clipless over regular pedals?
Build log: Kona DH Stab Primo, 20s2p, 9C 8x7, Greentime 15fet 4410 50A
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Re: Mark_A_W's DH Team/MAC Shanghai/60v Headway build

Post by AussieJester » Mar 30 2010 8:40pm

Oh veeeery nice Mark the battery enclosure has come up a freakin treat mate !!
Looks very slick all installed in the frame too, very pro mate well done
to all those that contributed to the making of it too...

KiM

p.s im glad i have a 32in monitor those pics when you clickz on them are HUUUGE hahaa...nice :-)

EDIT: forgot to ask also Mark...what method did you choose to keep the container together?

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Re: Mark_A_W's DH Team/MAC Shanghai/60v Headway build

Post by adrian_sm » Mar 30 2010 9:33pm

I vote you paint your forks black. The red standards out too much, against the new battery box.

Then it will look sweeeeeeet. :D

- Adrian
Image
Build #1 ~28kg ~ 700w Avanti Hardtail Crystalyte 408, 48V10Ah Headway. ~5500 kms to date. (retired)
Build #2 ~30kg ~2000w Giant AC Dually Crystalyte 408, 48V10Ah Headway + 6s10Ah LiPo = 70V. ~15000 kms to date [SOLD]
Build #3 ~13kg ~2000w Commuter Booster <1kg Friction Drive
Build #??? ~21kg ~1500w Adrian's Bafang BPM Hardtail MTB Bafang BPM code12, 15s LiPo, ~40kph, ~30kms

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Re: Mark_A_W's DH Team/MAC Shanghai/60v Headway build

Post by AussieJester » Mar 30 2010 9:59pm

I likez the red forks...the battery box could be done in the same blue as the frame perhaps? Either way it looks schweet as is IMHO. Very professional looking outfit i think.

KiM

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Re: Mark_A_W's DH Team/MAC Shanghai/60v Headway build

Post by Mark_A_W » Mar 30 2010 10:06pm

I didn't get a choice on the colour, it was black or black. But it was free. 2 pack.


I'm not pulling the forks apart. They are red and staying that way, and they go faster.


At the moment the box is sticky taped together. Today I'm thinking a little black 20mm webbing and some press studs (aka click buttons) in the corners...tomorrow..well I dunno.

The other choice is sticky velcro, slit in half and laid either side of the join. Then a non-sticky velcro "wrap" around the whole lot.


Sorry I forget to resize the pics....
Under construction: Giant DH Team, MAC Shanghai, Infineon 18 FET controller, 64v Headway battery. LINK!!

Retired: Kona Dawg Dually + Bomber Triple Clamp forks with Nine Continents front hub motor, 48v 10Ah Headway LiFePO4 Pack + 12v 10Ah Headway LiFePO4 booster pack (nominal 64v).

Powered by the sun :)

Dead: Jamis Dakar frame, Mongoose Pro Downhill frame, cooked Lipo booster pack....and various other bits and pieces...

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Re: Mark_A_W's DH Team/MAC Shanghai/60v Headway build

Post by AussieJester » Mar 30 2010 10:13pm

Mark_A_W wrote: The other choice is sticky velcro, slit in half and laid either side of the join. Then a non-sticky velcro "wrap" around the whole lot.
....
I'm guessing its a pretty 'tight' press fit anyways? I like the press stud idea, depending on how often you need to gain access velcro could also be good, after ripping it apart couple dozen times i find it loses alot of its 'sticking' power... Would drilling ~ 3 holes on each side epoxing a nut on the inner side of the enclosure and popping the bolts through be a possible option maybe? Few neat cap screws would look neat and go with the pro-look finish of the box...Even you have to admit though Mark it is a bettr look than your duct taped pack ... i know i know you are believer of the tape hehee...best of luck with the fastening of it anywayz :-)

KiM

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Re: Mark_A_W's DH Team/MAC Shanghai/60v Headway build

Post by Mark_A_W » Mar 30 2010 10:51pm

I need to be able to open it twice every day to charge.


It's a tight enough fit that half a ball on a leaf spring (ball detent) would probably work fine.
Under construction: Giant DH Team, MAC Shanghai, Infineon 18 FET controller, 64v Headway battery. LINK!!

Retired: Kona Dawg Dually + Bomber Triple Clamp forks with Nine Continents front hub motor, 48v 10Ah Headway LiFePO4 Pack + 12v 10Ah Headway LiFePO4 booster pack (nominal 64v).

Powered by the sun :)

Dead: Jamis Dakar frame, Mongoose Pro Downhill frame, cooked Lipo booster pack....and various other bits and pieces...

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Re: Mark_A_W's DH Team/MAC Shanghai/60v Headway build

Post by Hyena » Mar 30 2010 11:15pm

Mark_A_W wrote:I didn't get a choice on the colour, it was black or black
Painted by Henry Ford hey ? :)
You might have mentioned it earlier but whats the other box under your controller ? Given the current you're running that big 18 fet controller is a bit of overkill. Have you thought about using a little 9 fet ? You could fit it up between the seat post and mudguard and it'd be more out of harms way too.

As for opening it to charge, can't you put a neat little charing port on it somewhere ??
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New FUTR and Hyena special edition Beta frames now available!
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Re: Mark_A_W's DH Team/MAC Shanghai/60v Headway build

Post by Mark_A_W » Mar 30 2010 11:24pm

The 18 fet is total overkill. But I got it cheap from Voicecoils, and it's programmable, and I fitted my CA shunt inside it (I could have converted the CA to direct plug in, but to be honest it's better with a shunt - more accurate, more reliable). 12 Fet would be a better match to the motor.

I'm running it at half it's current capacity. But you never know, I might fit an X5 one day.

The box below the controller contains my DC-DC converter for the lights (ebay: Hitron, $14 landed).


A charging port is tricky currently. I have a 16 cell pack with BMS and an XLR charge connection - perfect for a port.

But I have 4 more cells with both a single 12v charge connection (dc plugpack style) for unbalanced charging, and a big 6 Pin XLR connection for single cell charging. The 6 Pin XLR has a male socket, which is not good for a charge port.

It's messy...

I hope to fit a 20 Cell BMS and use a 20 cell charger = one connection....one day.
Under construction: Giant DH Team, MAC Shanghai, Infineon 18 FET controller, 64v Headway battery. LINK!!

Retired: Kona Dawg Dually + Bomber Triple Clamp forks with Nine Continents front hub motor, 48v 10Ah Headway LiFePO4 Pack + 12v 10Ah Headway LiFePO4 booster pack (nominal 64v).

Powered by the sun :)

Dead: Jamis Dakar frame, Mongoose Pro Downhill frame, cooked Lipo booster pack....and various other bits and pieces...

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Re: Mark_A_W's DH Team/MAC Shanghai/60v Headway build

Post by Hyena » Mar 30 2010 11:50pm

Hmmm ok that charging situation DOES sounds messy! Can't you just charge up at 20S voltage and let the BMS handle the balancing of the 16S it's watching after the fact ?

Have you got a link to your DC-DC converter ? I had a look on ebay but couldn't see any specific hitron ones.
I've got a charger from an old motorola brick mobile phone that outputs 1.5a @ 5v but it's not really powerful enough for my main SSC P7 headlights.
www.HyenaElectricBikes.com
Aussie high powered e-bike kits and custom performance ebikes
New FUTR and Hyena special edition Beta frames now available!
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Re: Mark_A_W's DH Team/MAC Shanghai/60v Headway build

Post by Mark_A_W » Mar 31 2010 1:02am

Item 130353756516


If I'm getting a 20 cell charger, then I'm getting a BMS to match. I don't fancy charging 16 cells with a bms and 4 without, all at once.
Under construction: Giant DH Team, MAC Shanghai, Infineon 18 FET controller, 64v Headway battery. LINK!!

Retired: Kona Dawg Dually + Bomber Triple Clamp forks with Nine Continents front hub motor, 48v 10Ah Headway LiFePO4 Pack + 12v 10Ah Headway LiFePO4 booster pack (nominal 64v).

Powered by the sun :)

Dead: Jamis Dakar frame, Mongoose Pro Downhill frame, cooked Lipo booster pack....and various other bits and pieces...

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Re: Mark_A_W's DH Team/MAC Shanghai/60v Headway build

Post by AussieJester » Mar 31 2010 1:44am

Hyena wrote:
Have you got a link to your DC-DC converter ?
Remeber the one i have/told you about Hyena...48-72v to 12vdc converter ? 25 bucks...can find link if required, actually check your
pms i sentz it too you...tiny unit about size of smoke packet...in an enclosure same as the Infineons...

KiM

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Re: Mark_A_W's DH Team/MAC Shanghai/60v Headway build

Post by Mark_A_W » Mar 31 2010 7:14am

If you want to run led headlights/flashers, then you need 6v, not 12v. Some leds drivers will run at 12v, but they just burn it off as heat.


The Hitron converter has 3.3, 6, and 12v outputs. I'm pulling 40w out of the 6v line.


And it's only 60x60x10mm. My box is bigger than that as I added a capacitor (so the flashing led didn't change mode when I turn on the 4 headlights), and it contains the connections and a switch.

It's also a heatsink, as I'm pulling 40w out of a 30w dc converter, and it gets warm without a heatsink.
Under construction: Giant DH Team, MAC Shanghai, Infineon 18 FET controller, 64v Headway battery. LINK!!

Retired: Kona Dawg Dually + Bomber Triple Clamp forks with Nine Continents front hub motor, 48v 10Ah Headway LiFePO4 Pack + 12v 10Ah Headway LiFePO4 booster pack (nominal 64v).

Powered by the sun :)

Dead: Jamis Dakar frame, Mongoose Pro Downhill frame, cooked Lipo booster pack....and various other bits and pieces...

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Re: Mark_A_W's DH Team/MAC Shanghai/60v Headway build

Post by full-throttle » Mar 31 2010 9:56pm

Disaster. I'll let Mark tell the story when he's done reassembling the motor with the fresh set of metal gears, here are the pics:
gears1.jpg
gears2.jpg
gears3.jpg
gears4.jpg

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Re: Mark_A_W's DH Team/MAC Shanghai/60v Headway build

Post by Mark_A_W » Mar 31 2010 10:21pm

Yeah, the plastic gears lasted 3 days.


And I was running less current, and going easy...ok, easier.


Interestingly, they failed with a CRACK, but on a tiny little bump, barely under power, at walking pace.


What's concerning is the little steel key, which sits in the keyway on the axle, and stops the freewheel assy rotating, was completely flogged out. Unfortunately the keyway on the axle is a bit rough too - the axle is hardened, but not that hard.

The freewheel/gear assy should sit on a SPLINE, not a single KEY.

I made a key out of some bar stock, and the freewheel is no longer rocking back and forth ~15 degrees.


I have 3 steel gears from Full-throttle to get me home, then I'll take them out to give back to him.


Nylon gears are no good. Steel gears are no good.



Edit: Gears 3.jpg above shows my steel gear, after 200km's, running greased. It is showing serious wear. It is not being reused.
Under construction: Giant DH Team, MAC Shanghai, Infineon 18 FET controller, 64v Headway battery. LINK!!

Retired: Kona Dawg Dually + Bomber Triple Clamp forks with Nine Continents front hub motor, 48v 10Ah Headway LiFePO4 Pack + 12v 10Ah Headway LiFePO4 booster pack (nominal 64v).

Powered by the sun :)

Dead: Jamis Dakar frame, Mongoose Pro Downhill frame, cooked Lipo booster pack....and various other bits and pieces...

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Re: Mark_A_W's DH Team/MAC Shanghai/60v Headway build

Post by voicecoils » Mar 31 2010 10:52pm

great :shock:

but...they've failed in the hands of an excellent Mechanical Engineer :wink: perhaps a real solution will come out of this? We need to figure out how to make the motors handle 1.5-2kW peak loads, even if it's beyond the design limit, otherwise they're not that useful to a *power commuter*.
Last edited by voicecoils on Apr 01 2010 12:59am, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Mark_A_W's DH Team/MAC Shanghai/60v Headway build

Post by AussieJester » Mar 31 2010 10:55pm

Mark_A_W wrote: Nylon gears are no good. Steel gears are no good.
Damn Mark :-( Whats your next course of action? I spoke with Matt.P yesterday and
he is keen to get one of the MAC motors so he will be keenly
watching your progress no doubt, i just emailed him with this recent news.
Time to hunt down a machinist to crank out some higher quality gears from some more
durable material is it?

KiM

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Re: Mark_A_W's DH Team/MAC Shanghai/60v Headway build

Post by Mark_A_W » Mar 31 2010 11:17pm

A glass reinforced plastic - not sure what plastic. Could even be an Aramid fibre reinforced plastic.


Or cloth reinforced bakelite (phenolic).



The gears worry me less than the keyway slot on the axle. I can see myself having to completely disassemble the axle to get another keyway machined on the other side. Then that will fail too...

It's a cyclic shock load. It needs a spline. But then you couldn't get the rotor off. I see why they did it the way they did.

The BMC motor has the same keyway/freewheel design.

The key is the little steel block in the pics above.

I dunno how to fix the keyway properly, not without designing a whole motor from scratch.
Under construction: Giant DH Team, MAC Shanghai, Infineon 18 FET controller, 64v Headway battery. LINK!!

Retired: Kona Dawg Dually + Bomber Triple Clamp forks with Nine Continents front hub motor, 48v 10Ah Headway LiFePO4 Pack + 12v 10Ah Headway LiFePO4 booster pack (nominal 64v).

Powered by the sun :)

Dead: Jamis Dakar frame, Mongoose Pro Downhill frame, cooked Lipo booster pack....and various other bits and pieces...

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