E-S Stealth Electric Bike Owners

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AAAAQQQ   10 mW

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Re: E-S Stealth Electric Bike Owners

Post by AAAAQQQ » Dec 08 2021 4:19am

Well if you guessed heat anodizing you were right. Any tips for restoring it back to its former shine or preferably black?

Kinda breaks the entire "Stealth" aesthetic and makes its difficult to fly under the radar with it sticking out like a sore thumb. Cheers
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Rix   100 GW

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Re: E-S Stealth Electric Bike Owners

Post by Rix » Dec 08 2021 12:16pm

1abv wrote:
Dec 04 2021 5:10pm
Mmmm Racetech custom built shock. Yes fellas that is all billet. Simply put the best shock that has ever been on a bomber. It’s ok if you disagree with me your wrong. :) Custom sprung and valved for my weight and riding style. Jeff and the team over there are amazing. It’s The little things that rock.. 360 degree rotating banjo for the resi, custom made lines so it’s all contained in the seat bracket. High and low speed compression.
Custom wound and powder coated spring. Tha shit!
No more getting beat up and compromised by that turd DNM. A great useable range for compression and rebound. While the revalved and resprung and properly charged w nitrogen DNM was way better than stock DNM, it simply does not compare to a real shock custom made for the rider. Yes it costs a lot. No more donkey kicking. No more compensating on downhills for a shit shock. night and day difference. If you ride off-road aggressive you need to get this.
Very nice, RT did a great job.

Theodore Voltaire   10 GW

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Re: E-S Stealth Electric Bike Owners

Post by Theodore Voltaire » Dec 08 2021 3:46pm

AAAAQQQ wrote:
Dec 08 2021 4:19am
Well if you guessed heat anodizing you were right. Any tips for restoring it back to its former shine or preferably black?

Kinda breaks the entire "Stealth" aesthetic and makes its difficult to fly under the radar with it sticking out like a sore thumb. Cheers
Your best option would be to paint it, but I'm not wild about the idea because it also acts as a heat sink.

AAAAQQQ   10 mW

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Re: E-S Stealth Electric Bike Owners

Post by AAAAQQQ » Dec 08 2021 7:55pm

When something like this happens is it not a cause for concern? Suggesting that things are getting a bit too hot (excessive stress, malfunctioning internal component or poor/incorrect choice of materials used).

Are controllers typically plug and play items? If so are there upgrade options for replacement? Sine-wave and FOC controllers were mentioned in an earlier post, but man Im so new to this world that Im not even sure of the words I need to google to find the correct model. Does anyone have experiences with changing out the stock controller and getting gains in performance as a result?

Ah... one thing I miss coming from motorcycles is that being big manufacturers and having big R&D, every single commercially released production bike would come with intricately detailed part diagrams and part numbers down to bolts and nuts, making it a breeze to find and source parts if the need ever arises.

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Re: E-S Stealth Electric Bike Owners

Post by Theodore Voltaire » Dec 08 2021 11:40pm

AAAAQQQ wrote:
Dec 08 2021 7:55pm
When something like this happens is it not a cause for concern? Suggesting that things are getting a bit too hot (excessive stress, malfunctioning internal component or poor/incorrect choice of materials used).

Are controllers typically plug and play items? If so are there upgrade options for replacement? Sine-wave and FOC controllers were mentioned in an earlier post, but man Im so new to this world that Im not even sure of the words I need to google to find the correct model. Does anyone have experiences with changing out the stock controller and getting gains in performance as a result?

Ah... one thing I miss coming from motorcycles is that being big manufacturers and having big R&D, every single commercially released production bike would come with intricately detailed part diagrams and part numbers down to bolts and nuts, making it a breeze to find and source parts if the need ever arises.
I don't think it's much of a concern. If the bike is running fine I wouldn't worry about it. If the discoloration bothers you that much, paint it, and ride the crap out of it till it breaks.

Unfortunately there's zero aftermarket for Stealth's, so plug and play isn't an option except from the factory itself, and I don't know how far back they stock parts for. There are however good replacement high performance components available, but they'll need to be custom adapted. It'll take some skill, and experience, but don't worry, because you'll have both by the time you're done lol.

Here's a couple of controllers you could consider.

https://www.kellycontroller.com/shop/kbs-e/

The problem with this one is they have a 6 month lead time, but it's considered the best of the best right now. 6 months from now who knows?

https://nucular.tech/

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Re: E-S Stealth Electric Bike Owners

Post by 1abv » Dec 09 2021 12:58pm

As TV has said its not an issue as far as the discoloration. If you want you can put temp strips on it (I did that) or get a fish tank temp sensor. They usually come w a readout. You could move it around and check the battery temps as well.

I beat the living hell out of my bike and the controller never failed due to heat. Vibration Oh yes. As I mentioned before as a preventative measure take it apart, get electronic rated RTV Do not use regular RTV it releases an acid that can damage the board.
I used ASI 388 electronic grade neutral cure RTV

Put RTV between the caps and the board so the caps are not relying on the tiny legs to hold them on.
As far a replacements Stealth sells them for 500.00. Still available. Its overpriced by a long shot. I have a kelly that I have yet to install but I think if you send your motor to them and buy their controller they will program it for you. Its a bit more complicated then just swapping some connectors.

BTW some of your caps could have already broken and you wouldn't know it until it does damage to your controller. The bike will run fine until you find out that several caps have broken...

Ask me how I know this...... ugh...

Hopefully stealth runs potted controllers now. BTW if you are going to buy a new one get it potted. It will be way more waterproof, vibration proof.

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Allex   10 GW

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Re: E-S Stealth Electric Bike Owners

Post by Allex » Dec 09 2021 2:31pm

Now, if you know who Alex is, you can get this sexy NUC 20kW in a jiffy ;)
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Rix   100 GW

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Re: E-S Stealth Electric Bike Owners

Post by Rix » Dec 09 2021 7:41pm

AAAAQQQ wrote:
Dec 08 2021 7:55pm
When something like this happens is it not a cause for concern? Suggesting that things are getting a bit too hot (excessive stress, malfunctioning internal component or poor/incorrect choice of materials used).

Are controllers typically plug and play items? If so are there upgrade options for replacement? Sine-wave and FOC controllers were mentioned in an earlier post, but man Im so new to this world that Im not even sure of the words I need to google to find the correct model. Does anyone have experiences with changing out the stock controller and getting gains in performance as a result?

Ah... one thing I miss coming from motorcycles is that being big manufacturers and having big R&D, every single commercially released production bike would come with intricately detailed part diagrams and part numbers down to bolts and nuts, making it a breeze to find and source parts if the need ever arises.
When I see heat stress like this, it tells me there is a lot of history of high current draw combined with low speed constant heavy electrical load conditions. Whats amazing is this amount of heat coloration is the controller is still working

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Rix   100 GW

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Re: E-S Stealth Electric Bike Owners

Post by Rix » Dec 09 2021 7:43pm

Allex wrote:
Dec 09 2021 2:31pm
Now, if you know who Alex is, you can get this sexy NUC 20kW in a jiffy ;)
I can personally vouch for Alex's stuff. And he goes above and beyond after the sale to help with set up. :bigthumb: :bigthumb:

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CJonaBttlrckt   100 W

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Re: E-S Stealth Electric Bike Owners

Post by CJonaBttlrckt » Dec 09 2021 10:16pm

AAAAQQQ wrote:
Dec 02 2021 2:34am
Thanks for responses. Yeah, I'm completely new to the e-bike world, ridden motorcycles for decades though off-road, on-road.
Over the last year or so been obsessively reading and researching one thing I've come across was the difficulty some people have sourcing 24" wheels. This sounds like an issue for long term ownership? How/where are you guys getting yours? And the notorious V-Boxx, oh boy, if it breaks now. I'm getting cold sweats just thinking about it.

I Would definitely be looking into changing the controller in the future similar to the one EBMX had on showcase a little while back with the controller tucked into the frame with smaller LIPO batteries. Having such a critical component mounted outside and exposed to the elements in a vulnerable position especially for an off-road bike makes me wonder. Would it not receive sufficient cooling inside the frame whilst at the same time being somewhat protected?

Hi folks,
Been a while and just saw this. This was my bike.
To clarify, the battery was not smaller. It was a 12p 20s 18650 build with manual BMS. The motor controller was removed from its case and bolted via the FET heat sink bar onto an aluminium angle bracket, that was secured to the inside fold of the upper battery opening in the frame. It was done to keep it away from water as much as away from impact damage. The controller circuit board was also supported on the other side of the frame so it didn’t vibrate and move and fail during riding. Being a sine wave controller with a high torque motor on 72v nominal, heat management was not a problem. The motor that had temp monitoring became hot before the controller. Compared to stock, even the new 90v bomber a mate had, it was a great hill climber and would still do 80kmh on overvolt mode, not that this was needed or used much.
I sold it when I was riding my pedalec rather than the bomber.
Cheers

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Re: E-S Stealth Electric Bike Owners

Post by Theodore Voltaire » Dec 09 2021 10:21pm

Allex wrote:
Dec 09 2021 2:31pm
Now, if you know who Alex is, you can get this sexy NUC 20kW in a jiffy ;)
I would love to install one of these on my bike, along with it's companion computer. But I don't think the stock motor with it's little 10g phase wires would cut it. What motor would you recommend?

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Re: E-S Stealth Electric Bike Owners

Post by Theodore Voltaire » Dec 10 2021 1:06am

I found another battery that will fit in a Bomber. It's actually made for an Onyx. It uses the same Sanyo sells my battery uses, and is about the same physical size. Decent price if the shipping isn't too much. Also looks like a good price for an adjustable charger too.

https://litespeedbikes.mybigcommerce.co ... x-drop-in/

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Re: E-S Stealth Electric Bike Owners

Post by Allex » Dec 10 2021 2:54pm

Theodore Voltaire wrote:
Dec 09 2021 10:21pm
Allex wrote:
Dec 09 2021 2:31pm
Now, if you know who Alex is, you can get this sexy NUC 20kW in a jiffy ;)
I would love to install one of these on my bike, along with it's companion computer. But I don't think the stock motor with it's little 10g phase wires would cut it. What motor would you recommend?
Stock wires are actually fine, I would just install a temp sensor on the stator windings and thats it as you will cook the motor faster than the phase wires on a 3t 5403. You can always swap out the wires for bigger, like I documented in my bomber thread.
A better one would be mxsus 3000. More performance, more torque, lighter, but the quality is lower. But as we are talking about simple things like hubbys, quality is not really a concern only thing that would break is bearings.

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Re: E-S Stealth Electric Bike Owners

Post by 1abv » Dec 11 2021 1:47pm

Allex,
How does the 3000 compare to the clyte when it comes to heat management? When I ride I get into the 120 degree mark from time to time and would like to keep it cooler. Does the 3000 handle heat better or maybe the 5000?

thanks!

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Re: E-S Stealth Electric Bike Owners

Post by Allex » Dec 11 2021 3:09pm

None of them handles heat good as a hub motor has a very low efficiency when driving slow and offroad.
They key here is to choose a slow winding if you prefer offroad and your speed is low.
So driving around in the bush with a 3T 5403 is not what you want to do. as efficiency is probably only 20% That motor is made for 50-60km/h cruise speed.
If you are avaraging a 25-30/km/h or lower then probably a 4 or 5T is the way to go. After that you start optimize with ferrofluid and hubsinks.
And honestly, the places you ride in, you would love a sur-ron, its like a dream in comparison.
I have both and I prefer a hubby on the pavement, but a "Ron" is the only way to go in the bush.
Here is an old video, and this is with the very first sur-ron that had 3900W and new ones have 6000W

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Re: E-S Stealth Electric Bike Owners

Post by 1abv » Dec 11 2021 4:52pm

Allex thanks for the info!!
Maybe I will look into a higher turn motor.....If I could find something that has more torque and could handle at least the same amount of heat that would be cool!.. Hopefully lighter as well...Then maybe I would not need to spend my kids educational fund on a shock.....

Yeah a mid drive would be the way to go but unfortunately I always pedal.. Ugh. I ridden a few Surron / Segways. They are a really interesting choice. My Bud has one that is 72v 31.5 ah battery from litespeed. Its set up to go to 15kw. I rode it like that and it was insane. I also rode it in many different power levels including stock. HIs bike has the full kit Dorado forks, Fox air shock, Saint front brakes, riser kit, 21 front, 18 rear. blablabla Its an over 10k e-dirtbike.

To say that the stealth is not in the same league as his modded Sur ron is the understatement of the year.
I would put money that his bike quicker to 30 than ANY dirtbike at 15k. He had a crazy big tooth sprocket on the back and by the seat of my pants I would say it was hitting at least 60 at top speed. Now after doing a series of 3 0-50's and him riding home on the street less than one mile his bike was overheated. I wont even mention his battery level after that...

So he would up de-tuning it and we regularly go on rides together at similar power levels. On the same trails his range is 24 miles then he is dead in the water. I go 31 miles and still have range left.
Now its not exactly one to one because I weigh 160 he weighs 270.
You are totally correct hill climbing is no contest even on "equalish" power settings. He smokes me even w peadling. Its like his bike on reasonable power levels wont over heat ever.

HIs bike has a chain primary and it sounds like absolute shit. Its loud and I would never ride it near people. When we are next to each other I have to yell to hear him. That same day my neighbor got a bone stock Segway 260. That was actually really quiet. I was surprised. Not silent like a hub but not offensive. The throttle response on the stock segway was god awful. there was about 1/8 of throttle turn that was just play. Did nothing. Then the power comes weakly. Granted this was 100% stock no wires cut. If I had the choice between his stock Segway and my bike I would take mine is a second. It has way more power than the stock segway the throttle feels way better on the bomber and the stock brakes on the segway are a joke. I know mine is modded as well but if they were both parked in a garage im taking the bomber.

The Modded surron on the other hand feels like a real dirtbike and would smoke my bike. But damn its loud...

I Really do believe that if you have one bike, the bomber is a really good compromise if you want to pedal.

If I had 2 bikes I would get something like a Specialized Kenovo or Luna X2 and a Talaria sting or Surron depending on the kind of riding I wanted to do. I would not take a SurRon on tight edgy MTB singletrack it's way to bulky.

Pics to come....

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Allex   10 GW

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Re: E-S Stealth Electric Bike Owners

Post by Allex » Dec 11 2021 6:18pm

I dunno why everybody keeps running with a chain on the Rons,
I was the first one having a belt kit made on that thing and I would never come back to chain after this:


Anyway, just get a mxus 3000 4T winding, if you have a 5403 you will be surpriced by performance. It have a lot more bottom torque. But of corse it slows doown at 60km/h where a 5403 keeps going until about 70-75.

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Re: E-S Stealth Electric Bike Owners

Post by Theodore Voltaire » Dec 13 2021 11:43pm

What about this motor Allex?
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Re: E-S Stealth Electric Bike Owners

Post by 1abv » Dec 14 2021 10:24pm

So im guessing that the 3000 will have more torque but may get hotter quicker which could be about the same as far as heat control that I have now. But If I want to run 8K peak around 4k constant can this motor handle that? I noticed that the phase wire gauge is thinner than the Clyte and can not physically fit 10awg wire Is that an issue?

thanks!
Alex

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Rix   100 GW

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Re: E-S Stealth Electric Bike Owners

Post by Rix » Dec 15 2021 1:30pm

1abv wrote:
Dec 11 2021 1:47pm
Allex,
How does the 3000 compare to the clyte when it comes to heat management? When I ride I get into the 120 degree mark from time to time and would like to keep it cooler. Does the 3000 handle heat better or maybe the 5000?

thanks!

Image
I ran both the MXUS 3k 4T wind, not 3T and the 5404, not the 5403, with similiar volts/DC amps. The 5404 did take longer to heat up in the same riding conditions, but not my much. The MXUS 3K 4T did give me just a tiny bit more off the line thrust. I suspect the MXUS 5K would blow both these motors away and take longer to overheat doing it.

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Re: E-S Stealth Electric Bike Owners

Post by Theodore Voltaire » Dec 15 2021 1:47pm

Rix wrote:
Dec 15 2021 1:30pm

I ran both the MXUS 3k 4T wind, not 3T and the 5404, not the 5403, with similiar volts/DC amps. The 5404 did take longer to heat up in the same riding conditions, but not my much. The MXUS 3K 4T did give me just a tiny bit more off the line thrust. I suspect the MXUS 5K would blow both these motors away and take longer to overheat doing it.
The problem with the MXUS 5K is finding anyone that sells them. The factory only sells in bulk. So far I can't find them anywhere else. The factory also said they don't recommend this motor with a 3T winding for some reason.

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Re: E-S Stealth Electric Bike Owners

Post by 1abv » Dec 15 2021 7:06pm

There was a sign at the start of this trail that said no motorized vehicles on this trail...
Good thing the forestry service notes that e-bikes are not motorized vehicles... ;)

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Re: E-S Stealth Electric Bike Owners

Post by litespeed » Dec 15 2021 7:34pm

Not sure why anyone would do a MXUS when the QS 205 motor is so amazing! It weighs more but you can make it weightless with 12, 15, 17 or 20KW. I have the 3.5T in a 17 inch rim and run the crap out of it peaking at 17,000 watts and still haven’t baked it yet. This is with ferrofluid and Hubsinks though! Definitely runs cooler with the Nucular 24F! With the MaxE I was running and the Nucular 24F I’m running now I can place the front tire against a wall and with the back tire on rough concrete I can smoke the tire….who needs more power than that? Who would want less I wonder? I could still turn the controller up to 20KW if I wanted to but I still find 17KW scary in many circumstances.

Just a different view from a guy who ran a MXUS in the past.

Skip the toys and get a real motor if it’s lacking power or heat resistance.

Tom
I'm married so you know I'm no stranger to pain!

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Re: E-S Stealth Electric Bike Owners

Post by Theodore Voltaire » Dec 15 2021 7:55pm

litespeed wrote:
Dec 15 2021 7:34pm
Not sure why anyone would do a MXUS when the QS 205 motor is so amazing! It weighs more but you can make it weightless with 12, 15, 17 or 20KW. I have the 3.5T in a 17 inch rim and run the crap out of it peaking at 17,000 watts and still haven’t baked it yet. This is with ferrofluid and Hubsinks though! Definitely runs cooler with the Nucular 24F! With the MaxE I was running and the Nucular 24F I’m running now I can place the front tire against a wall and with the back tire on rough concrete I can smoke the tire….who needs more power than that? Who would want less I wonder? I could still turn the controller up to 20KW if I wanted to but I still find 17KW scary in many circumstances.

Just a different view from a guy who ran a MXUS in the past.

Skip the toys and get a real motor if it’s lacking power or heat resistance.


Tom
Yeah, I hear you Tom. I was just thinking the same thing. The QS 205 makes a lot of sense. I didn't think it came with the right drop out width, but I guess it does if Bombers are 150mm.

https://www.amazon.com/Highest-Torque-E ... =UTF8&th=1

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Re: E-S Stealth Electric Bike Owners

Post by 1abv » Dec 16 2021 10:00pm

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1/2 way though a 31 mile ride in dirt...so nice to have range.

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