High performance & durability Cannondale Semi Recumbent

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wturber   10 MW

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Re: High performance & durability Cannondale Semi Recumbent

Post by wturber » Dec 30 2019 4:28pm

Cool. Ya still might want to ease into things. Also, consider CBD oil for pain/inflammation as an alternative to ibuprofen if you do get some pain recurring.
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Re: High performance & durability Cannondale Semi Recumbent

Post by neptronix » Dec 30 2019 8:43pm

I've never had notable relief from CBD, ibuprofen, etc.
Almost every anti inflammatory will prevent natural cartilage repair and growth ( look up PGE2 and the COX2 pathway ), so ideally you don't want that.. it's like repeatedly throwing new tires on a car that's got a severe alignment problem.

The real issue was that my joints weren't moving correctly across each other; the force in some areas was too high, therefore it created a huge amount of wear in some areas. Once this was fixed with bone re-alignment, everything is moving as it should, and thus there's no movement-induced inflammation and continued destruction of cartilage.

Even though i've done a ton of damage to one ankle, hip, and two kneecaps, the pain level ranges from a 0-3 on a daily basis... we've fixed the source of the problem :D

I just take glucosamine and fish oil to help rebuild and maintain what cartilage i have left, and it's very effective :)
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Re: High performance & durability Cannondale Semi Recumbent

Post by wturber » Dec 30 2019 10:32pm

neptronix wrote:
Dec 30 2019 8:43pm
I've never had notable relief from CBD, ibuprofen, etc.
Almost every anti inflammatory will prevent natural cartilage repair and growth ( look up PGE2 and the COX2 pathway ), so ideally you don't want that.. it's like repeatedly throwing new tires on a car that's got a severe alignment problem.
CBD is not a COX2 inhibitor. I wasn't suggesting it as a curative but merely as a potentially better way to relieve inflammation and pain than the ibuprofen that you were taking ... apparently to no notable benefit.
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Re: High performance & durability Cannondale Semi Recumbent

Post by amberwolf » Dec 30 2019 10:53pm

neptronix wrote:
Nov 07 2019 11:03am
I just wonder how many more cool things i could have built over the last couple years if i didn't feel like i was falling apart at the seams.
^^this^^ only it's been a lot longer than that for me. :/

I'm glad you're getting better, though! :)

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Re: High performance & durability Cannondale Semi Recumbent

Post by neptronix » Dec 31 2019 4:51pm

wturber wrote:
Dec 30 2019 10:32pm
CBD is not a COX2 inhibitor. I wasn't suggesting it as a curative but merely as a potentially better way to relieve inflammation and pain than the ibuprofen that you were taking ... apparently to no notable benefit.
Understood, i wish it worked better... i've got a nice supplement stack that works to regenerate and reduce inflammation ( the two are synergistic ) and so i'm very happy with it.. cbd just works on symptoms.. kinda sad that a glucosamine/fish oil/collagen/boron/ASU combo isn't given the credit it deserves.. at least lately, Boron is being acknowledged, and no longer in the realm of crazy hippies who drink borax..
amberwolf wrote:
Dec 30 2019 10:53pm
^^this^^ only it's been a lot longer than that for me. :/
I'm glad you're getting better, though! :)
I feel ya.

I've been thinking i'd end up in a wheelchair for the last 7 years and my bike crash destroyed my shoulder so bad i couldn't steer a car. I was extremely depressed and had very low self esteem. Two rounds of physical therapy, a complete rethink of diet, 5 years of using an arm bike, 6 years of research and finding/taking rebuilding supplements, and a controlled tibia fracture have so far done magic..

I've gone through hell and it was absolutely a factor in my marriage ending because i was an anxious and depressed mess for most of it because of this slow creeping disability..

But i put 1000x of my effort into healing and took one possible route out of a couple, and i'm reaping massive benefits today. I mean, i am making headway into starting a company i dreamed up 4 years ago and i've landed WAY better women ( looks/intellect/heart wise ) as well. My life had to completely collapse for it to be rebuilt like this.

I'd say... don't wait, get started now! I wish i would have figured out my shit a lot sooner.. i spent a fourth of my life spinning my wheels and really regret it!
"Love and compassion are necessities, not luxuries. Without them, humanity cannot survive." - Dalai Lama

My first major build: 1.6kW 8T MAC motor on a Trek 4500 MTB.
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Re: High performance & durability Cannondale Semi Recumbent

Post by neptronix » Jul 04 2020 7:00pm

Went to file the dropout a bit to fit a motor and design a torque plate around the dropout and discovered this upon flipping the bike over.
IMG_20200704_170214985.jpg
IMG_20200704_170214985.jpg (157.08 KiB) Viewed 1440 times
I'm gutted. The gashes from the chain are easily 4mm deep. I would call the rear swingarm structurally unsafe under motor power. And i'm really pissed that this rare beauty is destroyed. I think i will keep the bike and use it as an pedal-only platform, and maybe design a future bike around the frame. :cry:

I believe this happened when i was doing my single chain experiments.

I wonder if it is even feasible to have the swingarm fixed at all.

</build>
"Love and compassion are necessities, not luxuries. Without them, humanity cannot survive." - Dalai Lama

My first major build: 1.6kW 8T MAC motor on a Trek 4500 MTB.
Monster MTB: Leafmotor 1500w @ 4kW on a Turner O2 full suspension.
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Re: High performance & durability Cannondale Semi Recumbent

Post by amberwolf » Jul 04 2020 7:16pm

Is the tube a single diameter along that length? Or conical section?

If the former, you can remove the paint, and then pretty easily slit a tube of CF (that is already resined, not just the CF fiber material, though you could do that too its more work and messier) (or even steel or whatever) and slip it over the tubing, with the whole mating surface smoothly covered with sufficient epoxy (like the DP420 or whichever it was Doctorbass used on those round torque arms), then hose clamp it tightly down. Once it's bonded, you should be ok to remove the clamps, but you can leave them if you like.

You may not even need a full tubular cover, and may be able to just cover the full area of the gouges and some around them...but I'd feel better with a full tubular cover, myself. ;)


If it is either a conical section, or a curved tube, you might have to go with the CF fiber material sheet, and lay it up with epoxy/resin appropriate for it, and clamp and bond it to the tube's shape.

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Re: High performance & durability Cannondale Semi Recumbent

Post by thundercamel » Jul 06 2020 8:55am

Find someone who can use a tig welder to fill the gashes in with aluminum filler rod.
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Re: High performance & durability Cannondale Semi Recumbent

Post by neptronix » Jul 06 2020 9:57am

AW, that's an interesting idea, but how strong is it? Would you run 3000 watts through it? :lol:
"Love and compassion are necessities, not luxuries. Without them, humanity cannot survive." - Dalai Lama

My first major build: 1.6kW 8T MAC motor on a Trek 4500 MTB.
Monster MTB: Leafmotor 1500w @ 4kW on a Turner O2 full suspension.
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Re: High performance & durability Cannondale Semi Recumbent

Post by amberwolf » Jul 06 2020 3:18pm

Yes, I would. ;)

Back when I was at the apartment after the fire, somewhere around xmastime 2013, I was going to do that with JBweld (whcih isn't nearly as strong) and a split-tube steel piece, and a bunch of hose clamps, on CrazyBike2's rear frame when it actually snapped and broke in more than one place from poor design and materials vs the stresses I put it thru, and I didn't have access to a place I could do any welding.

I didn't get to test it because a friend let me use his driveway to do the welding necessary, before I got the JBweld and other materials. But I'm sure it would've worked.


Aircraft (even large commercial ones) have similar repairs done to their aluminum skins and pressure hull plates, though they are using rivets to secure the repair plate to the existing damaged (usually cracked all the way thru) plate. (there's no way to use a clamp to do it, so the rivets perform that job).



But there are actual mechanical engineers here on ES, so you can get a second opinion from one or more of them, for safety. :)

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Re: High performance & durability Cannondale Semi Recumbent

Post by Balmorhea » Jul 06 2020 4:15pm

neptronix wrote:
Jul 06 2020 9:57am
AW, that's an interesting idea, but how strong is it? Would you run 3000 watts through it? :lol:
I think his suggested repair is a much better idea than welding without post-weld heat treatment.

If you use a 6061 aluminum tube for the bonded reinforcement, you'll remove the possibility of galvanic corrosion from mixed materials.
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Re: High performance & durability Cannondale Semi Recumbent

Post by aroundqube » Jul 06 2020 7:49pm

Since the frame is not broken,I wounder if urethane broken bone casting tape would work for you . Luke praised it for frame repair in the past. He posted an Amazon link for a purchase ( 6 boxes? ) that he was going to buy. I have not found that post though.


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Re: High performance & durability Cannondale Semi Recumbent

Post by aroundqube » Jul 06 2020 8:29pm

Yup, nice work AW

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Re: High performance & durability Cannondale Semi Recumbent

Post by neptronix » Oct 05 2020 3:02pm

I read that thread and never saw an example of someone applying that solution and reporting success, whether it be short term or long term. I am not going to risk my life on being the guinea pig for that idea.

It's looking like i won't have space to work on that bike until July 2021.
And recently i have learned that i have 3 bone deformities that need correcting. Not 2.
I will probably spend most of 2021 either under the knife or recovering from being under the knife.

See ya in 2022, lol.
"Love and compassion are necessities, not luxuries. Without them, humanity cannot survive." - Dalai Lama

My first major build: 1.6kW 8T MAC motor on a Trek 4500 MTB.
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Re: High performance & durability Cannondale Semi Recumbent

Post by neptronix » Nov 04 2020 1:47pm

Honestly i'm at a big impasse..

I would like a replacement stock rear swingarm for this bike before i proceed.
Finding one is tough. They only made a few thousand of these bikes. I've been trying to find another one of these on eBay for some time.

I do not believe that material used to make casts will be equally strong as aluminum or have similar properties. I would not bet my life on the idea. Not on a bike designed to hit a peak speed of 50mph.. nope..

I wonder if filling in these gaps with scotchweld DP-420 would actually be suitable to restore the strength.. because if it has been used to successfully bind steel torque arms to aluminum frames.. the adhesive itself may have very good hardness and mechanical properties similar to the aluminum of the frame.. just a thought.

Sent a message to doctorbass hoping he would weigh in.. any other feedback is appreciated.
"Love and compassion are necessities, not luxuries. Without them, humanity cannot survive." - Dalai Lama

My first major build: 1.6kW 8T MAC motor on a Trek 4500 MTB.
Monster MTB: Leafmotor 1500w @ 4kW on a Turner O2 full suspension.
The monster scooter: Heavy duty Cannondale semi recumbent - under construction.
Blue Dream: Maxaraya FS semi recumbent and high efficiency mid-drive - under construction.

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Re: High performance & durability Cannondale Semi Recumbent

Post by thundercamel » Nov 04 2020 2:10pm

neptronix wrote:
Jul 06 2020 9:57am
AW, that's an interesting idea, but how strong is it? Would you run 3000 watts through it? :lol:
Wouldn't filling in the gashes with a tig welder and aluminum fill rod be as strong or stronger than the aluminum was originally? I'm no welder, but I've seen it done on shows several times.

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Re: High performance & durability Cannondale Semi Recumbent

Post by neptronix » Nov 04 2020 6:09pm

Welding it back together is something to consider.. i hear that it will need to be heat treated afterwards though and that will require it to be repainted and the bearings pressed in/out, which is quite an affair.

Doctorbass got back to me.. he says the DP-420 is stronger than the aluminum which is amazing..
But the good thing about DP420 is that it has a tiny bit of pliability which can emulate the mechanical property of metals..

I think this is a good and trustable solution.. :)
"Love and compassion are necessities, not luxuries. Without them, humanity cannot survive." - Dalai Lama

My first major build: 1.6kW 8T MAC motor on a Trek 4500 MTB.
Monster MTB: Leafmotor 1500w @ 4kW on a Turner O2 full suspension.
The monster scooter: Heavy duty Cannondale semi recumbent - under construction.
Blue Dream: Maxaraya FS semi recumbent and high efficiency mid-drive - under construction.

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Re: High performance & durability Cannondale Semi Recumbent

Post by neptronix » Nov 12 2020 8:55pm

Okay, i've been riding the bikeE around without a motor for a bit, while the cannondale sits in the garage, unloved.

I got 2 flats in the front 16" and 6 flats in the back 20" over the course of a few weeks of riding due to goatheads.
That's with a marathon plus in the back and a hookworm in the front.

I'm actually surprised that the front 16" is going flat despite the tiny amount of weight on it. I picked quite a few goatheads out of the thing. This will happen to the cannondale, so i have to take that into consideration.

So i figured.. before fixing the cannondale frame, i should convert the cannondale's front to a 20" wheel with a stiff fork so that i can run a moto tire on the front...however, there is no way in hell in can find the KP058 headset conversion kit to do that.
I'm quite frustrated overall.

In looking for another CLWB, i can't really find something better than the cannondale. Except a Maxarya Ray 2, which is nice, but a nightmare to mount a battery to.

I was thinking i could maybe get away with a tire liner for the front 16", but they just don't make them.

I don't want the constant flat tire nightmare to spoil this bike so i need to come up with a solution for this bike or just ditch it.. :evil:

The long wheelbase version of the bikeE FX may be a better platform.. it has a mid drive like the cannondale.. a standardish 1 1/4 headset that you could fit a rigid 20" fork to and convert to 20" front without much change in geometry..

I don't know, i'm at a loss right now. I really didn't think the front 16"'s would be a problem on both of my recumbents due to these bikes being so rear heavy.

I'll be back with more ideas.. one of these days :shock:
"Love and compassion are necessities, not luxuries. Without them, humanity cannot survive." - Dalai Lama

My first major build: 1.6kW 8T MAC motor on a Trek 4500 MTB.
Monster MTB: Leafmotor 1500w @ 4kW on a Turner O2 full suspension.
The monster scooter: Heavy duty Cannondale semi recumbent - under construction.
Blue Dream: Maxaraya FS semi recumbent and high efficiency mid-drive - under construction.

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Re: High performance & durability Cannondale Semi Recumbent

Post by thundercamel » Nov 13 2020 2:59pm

I'm glad to see you around recently, and that I don't have these goatheads in my area! Aren't there small scooter tires that would be the equivalent of a 16" bicycle tire?
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Re: High performance & durability Cannondale Semi Recumbent

Post by neptronix » Nov 13 2020 4:50pm

I'm happy to see you here too :thumb:

I looked for that and the closest i could find was some goodyear tire which was just a hair too big..

12" scooter tires don't directly line up with 16" bike wheels.. either 16" bike wheels are actually 12.5" and scooter tires are 12", or vice versa.
"Love and compassion are necessities, not luxuries. Without them, humanity cannot survive." - Dalai Lama

My first major build: 1.6kW 8T MAC motor on a Trek 4500 MTB.
Monster MTB: Leafmotor 1500w @ 4kW on a Turner O2 full suspension.
The monster scooter: Heavy duty Cannondale semi recumbent - under construction.
Blue Dream: Maxaraya FS semi recumbent and high efficiency mid-drive - under construction.

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Re: High performance & durability Cannondale Semi Recumbent

Post by Pentti M Reku » Nov 14 2020 5:20am

neptronix wrote:
Nov 12 2020 8:55pm


So i figured.. before fixing the cannondale frame, i should convert the cannondale's front to a 20" wheel with a stiff fork so that i can run a moto tire on the front...however, there is no way in hell in can find the KP058 headset conversion kit to do that.
I'm quite frustrated overall.


Hey, what about using the larger crownrace from that headshock fork with a adapter made from aluminium or steel? Someone with a lathe shouldn't take long to spin one if you hand over the parts or dimensions.

Have you thought about reinforcing the chainstay with carbon fiber? That would be easy to do at home without any special tools, just wrap with packing tape instead of vacuum bagging.

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Re: High performance & durability Cannondale Semi Recumbent

Post by neptronix » Nov 14 2020 12:47pm

Pentti M Reku wrote:
Nov 14 2020 5:20am
Hey, what about using the larger crownrace from that headshock fork with a adapter made from aluminium or steel? Someone with a lathe shouldn't take long to spin one if you hand over the parts or dimensions.
You know, that's worth consideration.. if i knew someone. I live in a very small state and have always came up empty handed when looking for local machinists, tig welders etc.

Here is what the kit looks like:

[img]https://www.bicyclebuys.com/thumbnail/0185960.jpg/img]

UPDATE: I found a KP058 kit and purchased it!! .. although i bought it from a kinda sketchy dealer, so who knows if i take delivery of the item or not, lol.

There's also a KP205 kit which converts the SI/Headshok to a tapered 1 1/8" fork.. which is going to be a rarity..
But at least it is available.

Current gameplan: see if i can successfully convert the front to a 20". If so, i proceed with frame repair. If not, i move to another platform.
Pentti M Reku wrote:
Nov 14 2020 5:20am
Have you thought about reinforcing the chainstay with carbon fiber? That would be easy to do at home without any special tools, just wrap with packing tape instead of vacuum bagging.
I'll have to look into that. although, the idea of using DP420 seems like a quite solid idea.
"Love and compassion are necessities, not luxuries. Without them, humanity cannot survive." - Dalai Lama

My first major build: 1.6kW 8T MAC motor on a Trek 4500 MTB.
Monster MTB: Leafmotor 1500w @ 4kW on a Turner O2 full suspension.
The monster scooter: Heavy duty Cannondale semi recumbent - under construction.
Blue Dream: Maxaraya FS semi recumbent and high efficiency mid-drive - under construction.

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Re: High performance & durability Cannondale Semi Recumbent

Post by Balmorhea » Nov 14 2020 8:49pm

Headshok frame bores are the same diameter as One Point Five. For a tapered fork, you use an external One Point Five headset cup on the bottom, and a 1.5" to 1-1/8" reducer cup on top.
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Re: High performance & durability Cannondale Semi Recumbent

Post by neptronix » Nov 16 2020 11:44am

Balmorhea wrote:
Nov 14 2020 8:49pm
Headshok frame bores are the same diameter as One Point Five. For a tapered fork, you use an external One Point Five headset cup on the bottom, and a 1.5" to 1-1/8" reducer cup on top.
Hm! thanks for the note.. I didn't know about 'onepointfive' headsets.
So if this KP058 doesn't arrive, maybe i could cobble something else together..

I also found this useful page from park tool:

https://www.parktool.com/blog/repair-he ... -standards
"Love and compassion are necessities, not luxuries. Without them, humanity cannot survive." - Dalai Lama

My first major build: 1.6kW 8T MAC motor on a Trek 4500 MTB.
Monster MTB: Leafmotor 1500w @ 4kW on a Turner O2 full suspension.
The monster scooter: Heavy duty Cannondale semi recumbent - under construction.
Blue Dream: Maxaraya FS semi recumbent and high efficiency mid-drive - under construction.

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