E Hiking Cart

Ozzzz

100 W
Joined
May 3, 2016
Messages
183
I'm considering building an electric single wheel pull/push cart to carry hiking food supplies. Have seen one made with a hub mtr and I have a spare geared motor which I expect would be best (gear reduction in the motor plus gear reduction in the chainline) but trying to get head around the best setup as it will only need to do 2/3mph and have relitively light weights 40-50kg/ 90-110lbs.

I'm thinking of attaching a big cog and using the mtr mounted on the rack with a small cog via a chain or belt. I'm thinking a smaller wheel would just still spin faster so a bigger wheel may be better? I found q 50T 'extender' cog but would it be better to break down a cassette (not a lot of experience with what can be done with cassette clusters)


How would you do this? (set up your push /pull powered cart?)
 
Ozzzz said:
I'm thinking of attaching a big cog and using the mtr mounted on the rack with a small cog via a chain or belt. I'm thinking a smaller wheel would just still spin faster so a bigger wheel may be better? I found q 50T 'extender' cog but would it be better to break down a cassette (not a lot of experience with what can be done with cassette clusters)
Before you go finding cogs or sprockets, you need to determine the gearing ratio that will get the motor's speed at the voltage you're going to run it, down to the wheel speed of 2-3mph.

Then you can find stuff that will give you taht ratio without eitehr end being impossibly large or small. ;)

So if you know what speed the motor went in a wheel of a certain size, you can calculate it's RPM. THen you can calculate the RPM of the wheel size you are going to use, when it's at the speed you want. Divide the one by the other, and that gives you the ratio of the two, to figure out the gearing.

I recommend the largest wheel you can fit, because it will be easier to pull or push over unsmooth ground. Smaller the wheel is, the harder it is to do that. If it's a tall wheel like 26" or 29", then make side panniers mounted really low to carry your load, or make it like a BOB trailer that has the wheel at the far back end, and a load carrying tray between that and you.

You will probably also want the fattest ballooniest tire you can get, so it will roll over mushy ground and stuff easier.

I'd use a brake handle type throttle, rather than a grip or thumb type, if you need more than on/off control, so you can easily squeeze it as you pull or push. TO make one you use the cable from the brake lever to operate one of the cable-oeprated throttles found around the internet.

If you only need on/off operation, you can just use an ebrake lever and use the switch in it as the control (you'll probably have to use a voltage divider from 5v to ground, to create the specific voltage you want, or a potentiometer, and then put one wire of the lever on the center tap of that, and the other wire of the lever on the controller's throttle input.


If the motor is a hubmotor, is it a front or a rear? Does it have disc mounts you can bolt stuff to?

Or are you going to use the cassette freehub on the motor itself (assuming it's a rear)? Remember that you'd have to lock the freehub to do that driving it normally, *or* you'd have to lock the motor's clutch inside so you can run the motor in reverse.

The latter won't work if it's a freewheel instead of freehub, because the freewheel cluster will unscrew.
 
Yeah, thanks for your thoughts. I have a 26" fat wheel but then my spare hub mtr is geared for 20" /it's all 36v
I did find this in my searchings, though i think it must be direct drive with that big cog (and he says 10:1)
(it's out of my price bracket)

Screen Shot 2019-08-16 at 5.20.06 pm.png

It may be better to try this way than to use a geared motor.

I think too, i'd rather it pushed.. and maybe to handles but also attached to a pair of swivels on a hip belt, maybe it'll follow hands free /unpowered. I guess probably longer overall for heel clearance, still with paniers rather than weight on the drawbar.

My fat wheel is feewheel /screw hub, but wouldn't it still just freewheel pushed backwards and drive forwards.. ?

I think it would need a throttle to grunt over logs and that? (iv'e used a powered wheelbarrow with a lever throttle, that's a good idea).

(food for thought thanks aw)

ps. I had the thought that a solid mag wheel and belt drive would work well here?
 
I would just make a little 4-wheeled cart in the spirit of garden wagons. Were you have two wheels attached to the pull handle and they pivot along for steering.

Something like this:
https://www.lowes.com/pd/Gorilla-Carts-7-cu-ft-Poly-Yard-Cart/1000772546

with something like this:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32805584915.html

replacing the two steering wheels.

Then you could steering it with one hand while having a trigger throttle with the other one. With the right controller you could have it go in reverse so you can do both pull and push. And also take advantage of regen to prevent the cart from getting away from you on downhills.

I did find this in my searchings, though i think it must be direct drive with that big cog (and he says 10:1)

I have one of those brushed motors from years ago. They are nice for what they are and very cheap nowadays. Just a brushed motor and a single speed reduction gear box. No clutches or anything.

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32913890303.html

With the 24v version you probably wouldn't even need a controller if you didn't want one. Just gear it towards your targeted walking speed and have a button hooked up to a 24v relay. Just pick it up and get it moving a little bit and press the trigger and let it pull you along. Although the controllers are cheap as dirt as well.
 
Yeah, it really needs to handle single rough tracks, sometimes steep and rocky or else muddy and overgrown.. def single wheel territory.

Thanks for the links, I'd not thought of aliexpress, it seems the likely sorce looking at that, I see they also have a big freewheel cog in this kit :)

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32911644784.html?spm=a2g0o.detail.1000060.2.69fc673aelepTu&gps-id=pcDetailBottomMoreThisSeller&scm=1007.13339.139618.0&scm_id=1007.13339.139618.0&scm-url=1007.13339.139618.0&pvid=395b9951-3fce-4bf4-a45c-93dd3ad90ae6
 
sleepy_tired said:
Something like this:
https://www.lowes.com/pd/Gorilla-Carts-7-cu-ft-Poly-Yard-Cart/1000772546

hmmm, 1200lbs!! I'd be tempted to ride along
 
Thanks for the links, I'd not thought of aliexpress, it seems the likely sorce looking at that, I see they also have a big freewheel cog in this kit :)

Yeah they do. With that motor, since it doesn't have a gear reduction, may be too fast for what you want. But I don't know.

With the freewheel and clutchless motor the only problem I can anticipate is that it'll try to unwind itself when the motor is off. You can hubs for fixies that use a lock ring, but I expect the easy and cheap solution is just red 'high strength' thread locker. It would pretty much be permanent at that point... you'd need to use a lot of heat to melt down the thread locker and get it back off. Blue 'medium strength' probably would do it as well.

also you can get big sprockets that have a rubberized rag joint that clamps around the spokes of the wheels. They are used for motorized bicycle conversions and are cheap and easy to use.

https://www.kingsmotorbikes.com/collections/chains-sprockets/products/41-tooth-sprocket-with-pineapple-bushing-kit
 
Thanks Sleepy, some great ideas.

Looking at what was used on the above setup I'd expect he needed the big big cog (80T?) to get advantage of the power down slow enough, even bigger than those add-on rag-cogs. I get the feeling the size may not leave too many options in practice. I' can try a cassette fat wheel a friend has with a cassette that goes to 50T cog, might be wize first.
 
That pic of the silver setup in the snow is pretty much what I was thinking (other than the specific motor), though I'd go fatter on the tire. I wouldn't want ot have to drag the thing around thru stuff cuz the tire gets stuck. :)
 
A friend of mine built a electric wheel barrow a few years back.
He used that motor in your pic (200w with built in 9:1reduction) with a 10t then chain to 50tooth chainring. This chainring was attached to the wheelbarrow wheel (aprox 16") it did about 4kph on 36v.... But could pull whatever he could load in it up his steep block.
24v on a 26" would be around this speed (haven't done the maths). Get a cheap as chips brushed 24v set up to play with. (Actually he didn't even use a controller, just an on/off switch, the gearing reduction took out any lurch. )
It would be easy to build this up from standard parts, but you will be able to find 60t rings without too much trouble, drill them to fit a hub rotor mount and your half way there. No need for brakes if you go direct drive, I'd say even a tiny 100w motor would be plenty.
 
Yeah, thanks. It looks like I might need to just give it a go, the components are refreshingly cheap. i was thinking to use one of my 36v batteries and try a 36v motor, which it seems is what the pictured cart uses, and may be why the big cog. I guess I could still use these batteries through a 36v-24v step down if there's too much speed v grunt.

It looks like this cart does a good job taking a load uphill. I imagine a following cart would be easier on flatter faster ground. hmmm.. Maybe I could either reverse the mtr or make the load symmetrical and flip the whole cart over for push -pull :)
 
hmmm, yeah. So scratch the remark about expense, a dodgy aliexpress took care of that. I ordered a motor (i'll try 36v first as iv'e got the batteries already) but realised it had a side-mount bracket. I cancelled the order and ordered the right one (with a base mount) from the same vendor. I cancelled within 5 mins of ordering and the vendor insists the first motor had already shipped. No further response, no avenue available until it arrives, even then doubtful it will be worth the return.. which they would know..blah! Iv'e had some good results but it's often like doing business with a drug dealer (,,,i'd imagine), a gotcha transaction, rather than that from a proper business enterprise.
 
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