DIY Aptera knockoff?

Spawned from the Aptera thread:
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=34328&p=501944#p501944

Harold in CR said:

There is NO reason to need Millions of dollars for R&D, with all the smart guys and trade workers on this site.

I would love to be a small part of putting together a Prototype. Building an Aptera Clone would be easy enough. Keep it as a Moto, and, certification should be obtainable for road use.

Click to expand...

Here's my must-have list:

• Enclosed / all weather
  Two seats
  Low stepover/threshold
  Cargo capacity = > 2 paper grocery bags
  Standard wheels/tires
  Trailer hitch

(Leaning delta is my preference)

TD,
I have had a 3-season alternate build on my mind from the begining. The Aptera is a perfect example to plagerise as it has some great foward thinking & exicution of many details.

the biggest issue for me is the climate....without front wheel drive on a tadpole trike, snow is a deal breaker. A delta trike has its issues with snow also.

I like your parameters. Would side by side seating be a parameter or a bonus? I have no opinion on the tilting delta trike preferance....being a minimalist, I never really thought it through.

Other than the real advantage of front wheel drive in the winter senario...it is prolly not an impossible task.

Justifying this with the wife would be way simpler than an Airplane in terms of usability. For now, it will remain in the "some day" folder givien my other obligations.

Guys count me in I am set up somewhat to build custom carbond fiber! I will try to get a picture of my bumber thats 100% finished and weighs just over 3lbs (stock is 63lb) for the back of my 69 road runner I have build a 11lb hood (stock is 72) but its not uv protected yet so not as pretty. Imagine a carbon fiber version it will be more efficent to drive then a ebike at the same speed if built right!

For a tadpole, side-by-side seems best. More fun for the passenger too.

For a delta, optional FWD or AWD is very possible using the Enertrac motors.

I'm enamored of leaners (so cool) and wary of flipping a non-leaning trike...

http://videos.howstuffworks.com/discovery/32259-future-car-the-carver-video.htm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V16bPLtyzcg


(P.S. I already have a high efficiency vehicle, It'd be nice to make one that's a blast to drive.)

I'm in and have some $ to invest.

The Chipman EV ... http://www.evalbum.com/2311 is the lightest I have seen. Phil is an engineer and is ready to assist.



He writes ..."How to make a two passenger vehicle that was fast, fun,safe and practical to drive. Having
raced go-karts and owned motorcycles for years I wanted to experience the same thrill at the
minimum weight possible, yet have a two seat vehicle, practical for the street. I could not find
plans for such a vehicle - so decided to design and build my own. Key is to not think "car"
since the weight easily triples. Used bicycle, motorcycle, ATV parts.

The WIND has won Longest Projected Distance Award in last two years of UCI's Energy
Invitational race, against hybrids and fuel cell cars, getting 50 miles per 1$ worth of energy.
Racecourse was uphill, slaloms, chicanes and stop and go's.


560 Pounds (254 Kilograms) ... Phil is in the process of installing Lithiums so weight and performance will change



PS .... the Aptera was/is a motorcycle

I thought about this.

http://recumbents.com/wisil/e-bent/TandemE-Trike.htm





This vehicle has to go fast enough to not be a rolling road block. A big electric motor is certainly the answer.

The toughest part is licensing. You know that even if you build it with pedals, if it has a motor it won't be street legal. A vehicle with 3 wheels is categorized as a motorcycle though, so the way around it is that you have to start with a vehicle that can be licensed as a motorcycle. Maybe one of the Chinese high power but still cheap e-scooters. You cannot use any bicycles suspension or braking components. It has to have brake lights, turn signals and headlights.

Already you are well on your way to making a heavy vehicle, but probably it can be built under 300 lbs.

-Warren.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8rYYbSv0S5w&feature=related



[youtube]8rYYbSv0S5w&feature[/youtube]

Two Aptera mini 's ......

one "bicycle" ..... (legal definition of bicycle - 2 or 3 wheels ...some states up to 1000 +- watt assist )

and one motorcycle

An aptera body on the trivelo is a "bicycle"

http://www.wix.com/trivelo/the-trivelo-project#!specs

Tommy ?

But for the motorcycle , this motor may be a good candidate ...

http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=34497&p=502004#p502004

I made Tri Magnum some 10-15 years ago. Car was cheap, extremly easy to make and really fun to drive. I think it is worth to take a look at it. It has inovative steering column between drivers legs
I will found pictures an scan them (predigitalcamera era)
I didn't heard much of them lately. http://www.rqriley.com/tri-mag.html
I see now they have new model xr3

LOL, Hal beat me to the Q-riley site for links:
http://www.rqriley.com/imagespln/doran-1l.jpg

Warren's scetches brought it instantly to mind.

There is no way I would call these "bicycle builds" these need to be sturdy enough for handle a crash at 35mph & flow with trafic on city & neighborhood streets.
more reasoably capable of sustaining 55+mph
3-wheels = motorcycle in my state. It would stll need functioning windshield wipers & proper lighting,horn other running gear to quailfy. would be simple enough to stop by the motorcycle bone yard & grab a frame vin# & use it as the "base" for the build.
Licensing is easy enough if your willing to go through the steps.

These folks have an open source design and are into such a project , but I don't know if we need them. enough expertise here already.

http://switchvehicles.com/

http://switchvehicles.com/company/phase-one/

http://switchvehicles.com/vehicle/gallery/

There are few holes in todays eu regulations, don't know about US but here if two wheels are less then 600mm wide together they consider as one wheel. You can register three wheeler as motocycle if it is lighter then 400kg without batteries... this gives lot to play with design and make car that can be registred as motocycle.

One thought I had was to start with a 2 seat sand rail frame $570

http://www.buggyworld.com/parts/proddetail.php?prod=f-kd1



A arm or VW front suspension

Motorcycle swing arm in back

Lots of "reverse trikes" out there and a few electric ones..... 2 passenger side by side .. electric ? ... back to Chipman

The sand rail frame would be a great start but for $570 you just get a pile of bent tubes.

-Warren.

I was thinking along the lines of side X side seating might be considered a CAR by the idiot govt bunch. MIGHT need crash testing ($$$$) and all sorts of weird places to throw money.

A front-rear seating, would be MUCH more like a Motorcycle. I also was thinking, build the first one, get it licensed as "experimental", which should be really easy, then, as more are built, do the "Title" steps.

If several people worked on getting the first one put together, it would provide real world road testing. Then, they could all build another, and do the same "experimental" all in other states. This is the easiest way, I think, to get started.

First thing is, where to try to meet up and get started, once the design is settled upon. I'm not capable of flying to BC, Canada. I could make it to Texas or similar.

Need to get the CAD drawings going. I know nothing about that. Then, the chassis could be built in a different location than the body. Dash configuration could be done in another location.

I really am interested in the "Leaning" reverse Trike. Maybe, if needed, the guy with the SPARC design might offer some geometric assistance, since they already have one designed.

Goldwing swing arms with gearbox and wheel, are available on Ebay for cheap, if you look around. I bought mine complete for around $100.00, brand spanking new, including tire. Did not get the suspension parts or the driveshaft, but, that's easy enough to get or make. Bought a driveshaft for $30.00 off ebay. Just need a new boot.

I want an open type, similar to the Can AM Spyder, only different. :lol: :lol: :lol:

Looks like enough interest to get things going, EH ??? 8) 8)

a arm on sand rail frame

www.recumbents.com said:

The sand rail frame would be a great start but for $570 you just get a pile of bent tubes.

-Warren.

Click to expand...

I agree ... all kinds of prices and designs plus custom builds

http://www.dansperformanceparts.com/bug ... frame1.htm

http://www.miltonsandtoys.com/Medium%20 ... travel.htm

http://www.buggyworld.com/parts/products.php?id=2

now available are alum VW front sus , so they may be close to the a arm weight

This build has colossus writen all over it!!!!

Arlo, burn the midnight oil getting that controller running well. I was thinking the same thing about that Colossus motor, once a controller shows up with more muscle.

I also have been thinking about the all season folks. For me, I would want a convertible-open air model. Then, for inclement weather, just pull up the convertible top, made from polished aluminum tubes and Sunbrella fabric, same as used on boats. Could even make up snap in Eisenglass windows, same as on boats. This way, the other half can't complain about dirt-dust- rain, or other miserable conditions.

Make a windshield and use Rain-X when you don't want to run the wipers. It works a treat.

How about the "TREV" ?
.. its an neat, efficient, design, proven drive package ( Vectrix scooter ) and it has been driven around the world !
90km/hr, 100+ km range. http://teamtrev.com/about/trev-the-car/
..and a LOT of build info here ..http://www.trevipedia.net/index.php?title=Main_Page

I have been enthralled by the engineering in Dave Norton's SHRIKE.
http://unitas.lunarpages.com/~norton2/shrike.htm


I have tried to track down his engineering papers on steering geometry and such for stability, but have not been successful. If anyone else finds his design intriguing, and finds the design documents/papers; I would sure be interested!

He has put 100,000 miles plus on the design, so it has some reliability data behind it. He was extremely safety conscious in the design process, many of his principles are listed on the linked web site.

That said, I think front wheel drive is a good option.

I've been dreaming/planning a similar build for some time. I pretty much have it all sorted out in my head, but have yet to put anything down on paper. Basically you guys are over thinking this. Instead of shooting for a "licensed" motorcycle class vehicle, you should be looking at just an extended velomobile. A leaning tadpole trike with front to back seating for 2. You build it so that the second seat is more of a rumble seat that folds down for when no one is using it or you want/need to carry cargo. You make the seated area of the front driver wide enough so that the rear persons legs sit along side the front driver. A simple chromo frame/roll cage would offer enough protection for both occupants in the event of a crash. You really don't need a full on roll cage for speeds under 60-70 mph. So a minimalist design to the cage can be achieved, saving a lot of weight. Doing the design like this would allow for the vehicle to still be narrow enough to not be too much of a bother to other traffic in the bike lane. For a drive system you would either need a large hub on the rear with plenty of battery or an RC setup for best efficiency. Because of weight you are going to have to at least use moped rims, but they are still small enough to not require much more bulk in mounting hardware.

bigmoose said:

I have been enthralled by the engineering in Don Norton's SHRIKE.
I have tried to track down his engineering papers on steering geometry and such for stability, but have not been successful. If anyone else finds his design intriguing, and finds the design documents/papers; I would sure be interested!

Click to expand...

I like the simple design of this and isn't this here the complete documentation about his build?

http://unitas.lunarpages.com/~norton2/shrike_plans.htm