Votol EM-100 & EM-150 controllers

General Discussion about electric vehicles.
Sattva Ram   100 W

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Re: Votol EM-100 & EM-150 controllers

Post by Sattva Ram » Dec 21 2021 2:22pm

As soon as I unplug the data cable from the controller it is dead. As soon as I plug it back the controller works fine. What else can it be than a bad Dc-dc converter? There's no way that this is a setup question imo. I simply fried some electronix inside the controller. Most possibly when I tweaked the hall shift from a battery that didnt even have bms...But who knows maybe I shorted some wires that cooked the dc-dc. We'll never know but i'm kinda confident that the dc-dc is bad. So setup wont help this controller at this point... :cry:

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BareKuda   100 W

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Re: Votol EM-100 & EM-150 controllers

Post by BareKuda » Dec 21 2021 3:10pm

Sattva Ram wrote:
Dec 21 2021 2:08pm
I didnt set garbage that's how the controller came. The only port I set is low brake to the brown/white wire I dont know which port now and cruise to grey white if I remember correctly. That's all I need actually. I dont need the 3 speed and I dont have display. I think the problem is deeper than port settings now. The low voltage supply seems to be off. But i'll check it out tomorrow to make sure.

The motor is fine it was tested with another controller. With your setup that is color to color exchange hall exchange phase ticked and 60 degrees it runs very fine no load. Much much better than the garbage I uploaded on yt yesterday also no excessive revs. So the setup is correct now only the controller doesnt work if it doesnt have an external power supply from the data cable. Which means that it cant produce the 5 volts for the soft electronics from the battery voltage. In other words a bad dc dc converter inside the controller.
The only way it can require a usb cable from the controller to your computer to run is if you got some wire go going to the wrong place or grounded or broken wire that makes when you move the harness.
08E824DA-DE46-4EAC-B3DB-5CE8363237C2.jpeg
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Although not used in the non can version unless you use the Bluetooth module, it does share the +5v with the throttle coming from pin 11 of the controller.

My first suspect would be tracing this and see if it got damaged when you tried to unplug Hal 3000. Lol

You could also check continuity of the black ground wire to battery negative and make sure thats not broke but i dont think thats it because you dont need that black wire after it exots the controller were the wire might be damaged but you definitely need that pink wire to go to throttle after it exits the controller.

I recommend checking the pink wire for damage. The controller wont start without a signal from the throttle.

Sattva Ram   100 W

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Re: Votol EM-100 & EM-150 controllers

Post by Sattva Ram » Dec 21 2021 3:17pm

Okay but why does it work with computer connected? Doesnt it require the throttle then? With the controller connected it has perfect throttle response. So it cant really be the throttle...

Anyway I'll check it tomorrow it's PJ time now. I really really hope it's not the DC-DC but some trivial issue. It's just so strange that it produces a phenomenon like this...

Sattva Ram   100 W

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Re: Votol EM-100 & EM-150 controllers

Post by Sattva Ram » Dec 21 2021 3:17pm

I dont have a pink in the data cable

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BareKuda   100 W

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Re: Votol EM-100 & EM-150 controllers

Post by BareKuda » Dec 21 2021 3:29pm

Sattva Ram wrote:
Dec 21 2021 2:07pm
I think I'll ditch the 3 speed now. If I made the bike for some lamer for sale who is afraid of cops or something I would use 3 speed but it will be mine I need max power all the time. And also there is cruise so there is no need for 3 speed if you have cruise. Maybe if there was no cruise then 3 speed might come useful. There will be constant motor temp monitoring too so there really is no reason to cut back power.
The adjustable speed and Torque given by the 3 speed switch is one of the main benefit of a programmable controller.

Even if not worried about overheating or anything then it can be used at ECO, NORMAL and PLAID When you dont care if you need to pedal home. Lol.

The main problems with many throttles is they go full range with 1/8 twist, so the speed switch lets you turn that 1/8 twist into 50% speed and gives better fine control in some places.

You are so close to having that controller set up like a pro. Dont give up now.
What's your display btw? I might wanna use display. Is it the standard votol display?
I ordered it from here:
https://shopee.ph/product/503760699/10341727768

And here it is when using YXT (single lin speed signal)
[youtube] https://youtu.be/Luas1bIHrRo[/youtube]

UPDATE:

This is my old display which might explain why i needed to replace it:
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I was pretty shocked when i saw the display on this ebike. It looked like what you expect to see on a kids Barbie Convetter At Walmart. Lol
Last edited by BareKuda on Dec 21 2021 9:27pm, edited 1 time in total.

Sattva Ram   100 W

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Re: Votol EM-100 & EM-150 controllers

Post by Sattva Ram » Dec 21 2021 3:37pm

Well actually I'll have smart bms so i dont think i need display too much. Also it's a bicycle it cant fit such a huge dash.

Yeah I really am close. Actually it's all set now but I cant try it out cause it needs the computer...😔 what a bummer i was all worked up to finally see how it goes and then big nothing...anyway we'll see it soon...

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BareKuda   100 W

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Re: Votol EM-100 & EM-150 controllers

Post by BareKuda » Dec 21 2021 3:38pm

Sattva Ram wrote:
Dec 21 2021 3:17pm
Okay but why does it work with computer connected? Doesnt it require the throttle then? With the controller connected it has perfect throttle response. So it cant really be the throttle...

Anyway I'll check it tomorrow it's PJ time now. I really really hope it's not the DC-DC but some trivial issue. It's just so strange that it produces a phenomenon like this...
Mu guess is whatever strain you put on the harness to connect it to the computer makes the 5v connection and when you disconnect the computer the harness moves back to where the broken wire joint it open circuit again.

My crystal ball says your problem is with the pink wire from from PIN 8, up to where its spliced to go to the throttle and debugging connector, and then to the throttle connector.

Maybe its at simple as the throttle connector is loose and when you cinnect the PC it disconnects the throttle. All it takes is one of the 3 through wires to get disconnected by 0.0001mm and the controller wont get the 0.8v signal its looking for.

Its not the 5v bus because your pc doesnt feed 5v to the debugging line and the controller runs, so its a loose connection in the 5v wire from PIN 8.

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BareKuda   100 W

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Re: Votol EM-100 & EM-150 controllers

Post by BareKuda » Dec 21 2021 3:40pm

Sattva Ram wrote:
Dec 21 2021 3:37pm
Well actually I'll have smart bms so i dont think i need display too much. Also it's a bicycle it cant fit such a huge dash.

Yeah I really am close. Actually it's all set now but I cant try it out cause it needs the computer...😔 what a bummer i was all worked up to finally see how it goes and then big nothing...anyway we'll see it soon...
Hal 3000 doesn’t need your computer it just needs its 5v wire to your throttle fixed. Lol

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Re: Votol EM-100 & EM-150 controllers

Post by BareKuda » Dec 22 2021 6:36am

deida789 wrote:
Dec 11 2021 6:56am
by the way adjusting the 3 box left/right and also throttle voltage didn't fix my problem that if i keep the speed at certain point for a minute and i accelerate again its still keeping the same speed or go up but extremely slowly :(
Unfortunately your controller behaves differently than mine so i cant even runs tests on mine to try to mimic what yours it doing.

Maybe try setting flux weakening to 0 and tuning your current loop KI and KP values, then adding FW back in until your peak speed it obtained (but this will definitely be way over the motor continuous rating. Mine is already overloaded at max base speed so 0 FW works well for me.

Once you know your base speed without flux weakening maybe the speed you see the problem is right at the transition from base to FW.

Since your motor is not a standard QS motor i think you have to determine pole pairs yourself. Its pretty easy with basic things you have around the house and it will let you eliminated that variable from the troubleshooting.
[url][viewtopic.php?f=30&t=113988&p=1685680&h ... 685680/url]

I know the controller uses pole pairs to find RPM just by counting the times one hall sensor pulses. Whats less clear is where else the controller uses the data. We can definitely see behavior differences if pole pair are way off.

A basic non-programmable Chinese controller doesnt need pole pairs because its not needed for any feature it has, but with the votol since we can set DHC, regent, FW, current loop parameters, the pole pair might be more improvement than just correcting RPM.

I think that wechat program is labeled for controller like mine. Maybe you can get in touch with the app developer and as if they have a version for the 2.32 or controllers that don’t behave the same.

Even on my controller the bus bar current setting does absolutely nothing that I can see. Set to 0 or 40, every current is based on the one in the sport mode section.

Im pretty sure all the STM32 microcontrollers have a place for current (torque) control. Not sure why your Votol doesn’t use that in the right side fields of LOW MID HIGH. The dual voltage choosing between left snd right seems useless to me except in very limited applications.

Its hard to believe the Chinese can put a rover on Mars but can’t write a program and manual for their controller.

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Re: Votol EM-100 & EM-150 controllers

Post by j bjork » Dec 22 2021 6:48am

BareKuda wrote:
Dec 22 2021 6:36am
deida789 wrote:
Dec 11 2021 6:56am
by the way adjusting the 3 box left/right and also throttle voltage didn't fix my problem that if i keep the speed at certain point for a minute and i accelerate again its still keeping the same speed or go up but extremely slowly :(
Unfortunately your controller behaves differently than mine so i cant even runs tests on mine to try to mimic what yours it doing.

Maybe try setting flux weakening to 0 and tuning your current loop KI and KP values, then adding FW back in until your peak speed it obtained (but this will definitely be way over the motor continuous rating. Mine is already overloaded at max base speed so 0 FW works well for me.

Once you know your base speed without flux weakening maybe the speed you see the problem is right at the transition from base to FW.

Since your motor is not a standard QS motor i think you have to determine pole pairs yourself. Its pretty easy with basic things you have around the house and it will let you eliminated that variable from the troubleshooting.
[url][viewtopic.php?f=30&t=113988&p=1685680&h ... 685680/url]

I know the controller uses pole pairs to find RPM just by counting the times one hall sensor pulses. Whats less clear is where else the controller uses the data. We can definitely see behavior differences if pole pair are way off.

A basic non-programmable Chinese controller doesnt need pole pairs because its not needed for any feature it has, but with the votol since we can set DHC, regent, FW, current loop parameters, the pole pair might be more improvement than just correcting RPM.

I think that wechat program is labeled for controller like mine. Maybe you can get in touch with the app developer and as if they have a version for the 2.32 or controllers that don’t behave the same.

Even on my controller the bus bar current setting does absolutely nothing that I can see. Set to 0 or 40, every current is based on the one in the sport mode section.

Im pretty sure all the STM32 microcontrollers have a place for current (torque) control. Not sure why your Votol doesn’t use that in the right side fields of LOW MID HIGH. The dual voltage choosing between left snd right seems useless to me except in very limited applications.

Its hard to believe the Chinese can put a rover on Mars but can’t write a program and manual for their controller.
I dont think you can access KI and KP on the main screens on se 2.32, maybe in the hidden menu

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Re: Votol EM-100 & EM-150 controllers

Post by deida789 » Dec 22 2021 7:01am

BareKuda wrote:
deida789 wrote:
Dec 11 2021 6:56am
by the way adjusting the 3 box left/right and also throttle voltage didn't fix my problem that if i keep the speed at certain point for a minute and i accelerate again its still keeping the same speed or go up but extremely slowly :(
Unfortunately your controller behaves differently than mine so i cant even runs tests on mine to try to mimic what yours it doing.

Maybe try setting flux weakening to 0 and tuning your current loop KI and KP values, then adding FW back in until your peak speed it obtained (but this will definitely be way over the motor continuous rating. Mine is already overloaded at max base speed so 0 FW works well for me.

Once you know your base speed without flux weakening maybe the speed you see the problem is right at the transition from base to FW.

Since your motor is not a standard QS motor i think you have to determine pole pairs yourself. Its pretty easy with basic things you have around the house and it will let you eliminated that variable from the troubleshooting.
[url][viewtopic.php?f=30&t=113988&p=1685680&h ... 685680/url]

I know the controller uses pole pairs to find RPM just by counting the times one hall sensor pulses. Whats less clear is where else the controller uses the data. We can definitely see behavior differences if pole pair are way off.

A basic non-programmable Chinese controller doesnt need pole pairs because its not needed for any feature it has, but with the votol since we can set DHC, regent, FW, current loop parameters, the pole pair might be more improvement than just correcting RPM.

I think that wechat program is labeled for controller like mine. Maybe you can get in touch with the app developer and as if they have a version for the 2.32 or controllers that don’t behave the same.

Even on my controller the bus bar current setting does absolutely nothing that I can see. Set to 0 or 40, every current is based on the one in the sport mode section.

Im pretty sure all the STM32 microcontrollers have a place for current (torque) control. Not sure why your Votol doesn’t use that in the right side fields of LOW MID HIGH. The dual voltage choosing between left snd right seems useless to me except in very limited applications.

Its hard to believe the Chinese can put a rover on Mars but can’t write a program and manual for their controller.
about the app, well on the phone its running 2.32 but the bluetooth app is 2.33, i dont know where to find the 2.33 pc version, because the bluetooth app doesn't give me access to the last page with rpm.


as for the throttle it really gave me headache because it does that like i said only when i stay at a regular speed for a minute , i dont know if it has something to do with low voltage and end of voltage.

for the motor honestly its a mystery for me, carrie gave me the correct pole and angle and it works fine even more than i thought for 2000w rated, because she say the max rpm is 700 at 72v and i set the hdc to 1200 and the fw is set to 60 from the begining and it's a rocket, about the fw i think you are right i should set it to 0 to see, apart of the throttle everything is cool.

Image


Envoyé de mon iPhone en utilisant Tapatalk

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BareKuda   100 W

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Re: Votol EM-100 & EM-150 controllers

Post by BareKuda » Dec 22 2021 7:53am

deida789 wrote:
Dec 22 2021 7:01am
about the app, well on the phone its running 2.32 but the bluetooth app is 2.33, i dont know where to find the 2.33 pc version, because the bluetooth app doesn't give me access to the last page with rpm.
As far as I know the latest program on the Siaecosys website is for all Votol controllers. I think The 2.32 and 2.33 is the firware in the controller and will show up when you connect. Strangely the configuration file saves the SW and HW version too which is a little strange because I expect the Votol program to read that from the controller.

I have configurator files with 2.32 but never tried to see what happens if i open that and try to write it to the controller. Will it overwrite the 2.33 or will the 2.33 in the controller stay locked and then if you save the file it writes it as 2,33 now instead of 2,32?

If you aren’t getting display page i wonder if the baud rate of the Bluetooth module is set too high or too low. Did you already try to pair the Bluetooth with your laptop and see if the latest Votol program can communicate with it?

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Re: Votol EM-100 & EM-150 controllers

Post by Sattva Ram » Dec 22 2021 9:49am

I did some test runs with the correct setup. Very nice control the motor is ice cold this time.

However it still goes backwards. Actually it has nothing to do with the computer being connected or not it's perfectly random whether it starts backwards or forwards. I have ZERO idea what might cause such a thing. I'm completely lost at this point. Finally it works as it should setupwise and now it's bad again...

It's as if it put itself into reverse or something. The power and rpm is kinda low when it starts backwards...

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BareKuda   100 W

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Re: Votol EM-100 & EM-150 controllers

Post by BareKuda » Dec 22 2021 10:45am

Sattva Ram wrote:
Dec 22 2021 9:49am
I did some test runs with the correct setup. Very nice control the motor is ice cold this time.

However it still goes backwards. Actually it has nothing to do with the computer being connected or not it's perfectly random whether it starts backwards or forwards. I have ZERO idea what might cause such a thing. I'm completely lost at this point. Finally it works as it should setupwise and now it's bad again...

It's as if it put itself into reverse or something. The power and rpm is kinda low when it starts backwards...
Go to port settings, change PA0 from “10:reverese_set” to “1:empty_function”. Click “param write”, then reboot the controller. See if that fixes it.

P.S.
The real problem is your grey/white wire is intermittently touching ground, and since thats set for reverse, it runs in reverse. Since your reverse speed is set for 19% it only runs 1/5 as fast backwards.

The quick fix is to clear PA0 port but you need to check your Harness because it seems to have chaffed or something and is finding a ground. Thats my best guess.
Last edited by BareKuda on Dec 22 2021 10:51am, edited 2 times in total.

Sattva Ram   100 W

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Re: Votol EM-100 & EM-150 controllers

Post by Sattva Ram » Dec 22 2021 10:49am

Yeah that's the first thing that came to mind. I'll do it tomorrow.

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BareKuda   100 W

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Re: Votol EM-100 & EM-150 controllers

Post by BareKuda » Dec 22 2021 10:52am

Sattva Ram wrote:
Dec 22 2021 10:49am
Yeah that's the first thing that came to mind. I'll do it tomorrow.
What was the problem with the 5v wire? Loose connection? Broken splice? Throttle Connector not fully plugged in?

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Re: Votol EM-100 & EM-150 controllers

Post by Sattva Ram » Dec 22 2021 11:00am

Nothing wrong with the wires. At least seemingly. Everything is fine. This is a complete mystery...maybe the controller is inherently shit who knows. I'm thinking about a firmware update tbh. I dont know if it can be done...maybe it's time for a tabula rasa. Anyway I might just upload the initial config the controller came with. (Hope it still have it somewhwere...)

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BareKuda   100 W

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Re: Votol EM-100 & EM-150 controllers

Post by BareKuda » Dec 22 2021 11:23am

Sattva Ram wrote:
Dec 22 2021 11:00am
Nothing wrong with the wires. At least seemingly. Everything is fine. This is a complete mystery...maybe the controller is inherently shit who knows. I'm thinking about a firmware update tbh. I dont know if it can be done...maybe it's time for a tabula rasa. Anyway I might just upload the initial config the controller came with. (Hope it still have it somewhwere...)
There is definitely something wrong with your wiring. The problem with internment connection is like trying to find that leak in a roof that only happens when the wind blows the rain a certain direction. Lol.

Rather that using the original configurator file, just finish fixing that one and save each update thats better than before or revert back to the last good one.

With the connectors sometimes one pin isn’t locked well and gets pushed out when you connect the two connectors. So it’s barely touching sometimes and not touching others, causing intermittent problems. Like my hall wire connector before.

Here is my original hall connector i cut off my controller:
E7758EC8-0D99-48A6-A3FF-8A59CCCE9AA2.jpeg
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Like yours, it has the temperature sensor wire but no idea how to make it work because my motor doesn’t have temperature sensor. Lol. I had to cut this off because i wanted to make my old controler and this one quick change and now all i need to do is unplug the Votol and plug in the Original, phase Wire color match, hall wires in both controller plugs match, so it takes 10 minutes to swap them.

I know you want to keep blaming the controller but so far it all comes back to improper setup. The Votol wants to run but its telling you:
B5D39487-CCE6-491D-A9D1-9BC2CCE02D37.gif
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Sattva Ram   100 W

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Re: Votol EM-100 & EM-150 controllers

Post by Sattva Ram » Dec 22 2021 11:40am

I thought about it too but the wires are all in the connector they can't touch. The harness is intact as intact can be no chafing there. I think it doesnt even spin at 19%. (However if it needs hdc for 3 speed then it also needs hdc for reverse. And hdc is not on now so maybe 19% means nothing and it is indeed reverse kicking in randomly anyway tomorrow I weed out reverse and see...)

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Re: Votol EM-100 & EM-150 controllers

Post by Sattva Ram » Dec 22 2021 11:42am

I wanna love this controller but I just cant yet...hope it will be a future love affair tho...

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Re: Votol EM-100 & EM-150 controllers

Post by Sattva Ram » Dec 22 2021 11:44am

I felt some vibration at a certain rpm tho. So some fine tuning will be needed eventually i'm sure of it. I so wish that it was only fine tuning my biggest problem i long for that day...

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BareKuda   100 W

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Re: Votol EM-100 & EM-150 controllers

Post by BareKuda » Dec 22 2021 1:51pm

Sattva Ram wrote:
Dec 22 2021 11:44am
I felt some vibration at a certain rpm tho. So some fine tuning will be needed eventually i'm sure of it. I so wish that it was only fine tuning my biggest problem i long for that day...
If you didnt tune KI and KP yet it will have vibration anything from the feel and sound of running over rumble stips at 70 mph to a mild resonance at a certain speed. It was about 8km/h on my bike.

At first i was going by the KI values just being “sync” so thats all I adjusted, from low which gave violent rumble to mid which gave mild resonance to high which made it sound overworked. The best I could get was an annoying resonance passing through 100 RPM (8 km/h) which had the rear shock springs in sympathetic vibration.

After the chinese app showed that it was actually KI and down under the 3 speeds is the KP (which I set to 0 because every manual says its flux weakening lol).

Then i cranked KP up (0–>6000) and that allowed me to take some out of KI (700—>500). Then i tweaked each until it was as good as i can get it under load and all accelerated levels.

Now the resonance is so small the shock spings dont vibrate and its you have to try to go 100 rpm to even hear/feel it. But now it does make a strange noise when moving the bike (or rear tire) with the controller on. Like its trying to keep track of where those magnets are at all time and ready to activate the right phases.

The origin controller is quiet in all stages of operation but the Votol offers me a lot. The number 1 gripe about the origin controller was the throttle was erratic at times and you needed to use speed one to put a bandaid on the problem.

The Votol gives me speed and torque control, regen, YXT signal for my display, future-proof allowing me to upgrade battery to 72v and change chemists from lead acid to lithium ion or LiFePO4.

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Re: Votol EM-100 & EM-150 controllers

Post by Sattva Ram » Dec 22 2021 2:06pm

Yeah lead acid is kinda bad. The votol deserves better battery.

I have it directly exposed to wind I made a bracket for it so it faces forward with its heatsink getting maximum air. I'm thinking of giving it 45 amps at least. It's only a 6 fet controller tho but with a big ass heatsink. I hope it can handle it. I wanna squeeze some performance out of it tbh. (Maybe an upgrade with original 4110s...)

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BareKuda   100 W

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Re: Votol EM-100 & EM-150 controllers

Post by BareKuda » Dec 22 2021 2:10pm

Sattva Ram wrote:
Dec 22 2021 11:40am
I thought about it too but the wires are all in the connector they can't touch. The harness is intact as intact can be no chafing there. I think it doesnt even spin at 19%. (However if it needs hdc for 3 speed then it also needs hdc for reverse. And hdc is not on now so maybe 19% means nothing and it is indeed reverse kicking in randomly anyway tomorrow I weed out reverse and see...)
If you didn’t personally inspect every inch from of that 18 pin wiring harness from the controller out to each connector, whether it’s connected or not, then you are passing over the problem again when will cause Another wild goose chase.

Clearly you now now your PC had nothing to do with the control working or not, but the strain you put on the wire did. Now its workong but after you ride 10 miles from home and it disconnects again then you will be trying to fix it on the side of the road.

Our connection to the controller looks something like this:
62F9AE3E-DB98-4172-A73A-E5C785FF4A76.jpeg
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The harness has some ground wires spliced and the 5v pink wire too.

Your program is in there someone most likely. Some wire which was pulled when you paniced.

I’ve found several off these on my ebike and fixed them.

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BareKuda   100 W

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Re: Votol EM-100 & EM-150 controllers

Post by BareKuda » Dec 22 2021 2:14pm

Sattva Ram wrote:
Dec 22 2021 2:06pm
Yeah lead acid is kinda bad. The votol deserves better battery.

I have it directly exposed to wind I made a bracket for it so it faces forward with its heatsink getting maximum air. I'm thinking of giving it 45 amps at least. It's only a 6 fet controller tho but with a big ass heatsink. I hope it can handle it. I wanna squeeze some performance out of it tbh. (Maybe an upgrade with original 4110s...)
Hopefully you get it working right before you break it. Lol. It can handle 45a but not sure for how long. Thats 3300w which is probably 10x what your motor is rated for. Ive seen peoole push them to 1500w.

If you find out how to get the temp probe working that will help. There are temp probes in port settings but i have no idea how to make it work or calibrate it

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