Votol EM-100 & EM-150 controllers

General Discussion about electric vehicles.
Sattva Ram   100 W

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Re: Votol EM-100 & EM-150 controllers

Post by Sattva Ram » Dec 26 2021 11:26pm

Here's the Twente bike. My only concern is that they didnt put a mesh before the battery. Gravel likes to fly all over ona racetrack. It pierces just one cell their whole bike is smoke then and there...

However I realised that two wheelers are extremely shitty for electric conversion. They have a horrible CV relative to a car. So I think building a really fast bike is actually foolish. That's the reason why electric bikes are going down the drain. TBH i think a two wheeler is best to remain way below 100 kph. And even that is too much. I purposely chose the aprilia because of the good air drag but even a bike like this has twice the coefficient to a car.
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rienesl   100 mW

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Re: Votol EM-100 & EM-150 controllers

Post by rienesl » Dec 26 2021 11:32pm

kiggyo wrote:
Oct 03 2021 1:38am
The main problem if the low starting amps can't rotate the motor (the car need to climb up to a bump), it just make weird noises and the car will stay in the traffic. Or start immediately with burning tires, i haven't got control on it, no predictable.
After a long time I have some updates on this, but for now I can only speak for the EM-50S and EM-50SP: If you bought the controller from SIAECONSYS (QS-Motors), it has a customized firmware. The acceleration of the SIAECOSYS is horrible, like if you have activated softstart on the other one on the highest level. Currently I am in talks with Carrie, but as everyone knows who has been in touch with her, she is a lovely sales woman, but has close to no clue about the technical stuff. The other thing I will try to swap firmware images. Unfortunately I do not have the 2.32 and the 2.33 firmware files, but I have seen that some of you have and I would be extremely happy if they could get mailed to me (please note down, if it is the SIAECOSYS version, or not. Usually if you have CAN, it should be the one from SIAECOSYS).

Sattva Ram   100 W

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Re: Votol EM-100 & EM-150 controllers

Post by Sattva Ram » Dec 26 2021 11:38pm

rienesl wrote:
Dec 26 2021 11:32pm
kiggyo wrote:
Oct 03 2021 1:38am
The main problem if the low starting amps can't rotate the motor (the car need to climb up to a bump), it just make weird noises and the car will stay in the traffic. Or start immediately with burning tires, i haven't got control on it, no predictable.
After a long time I have some updates on this, but for now I can only speak for the EM-50S and EM-50SP: If you bought the controller from SIAECONSYS (QS-Motors), it has a customized firmware. The acceleration of the SIAECOSYS is horrible, like if you have activated softstart on the other one on the highest level. Currently I am in talks with Carrie, but as everyone knows who has been in touch with her, she is a lovely sales woman, but has close to no clue about the technical stuff. The other thing I will try to swap firmware images. Unfortunately I do not have the 2.32 and the 2.33 firmware files, but I have seen that some of you have and I would be extremely happy if they could get mailed to me (please note down, if it is the SIAECOSYS version, or not. Usually if you have CAN, it should be the one from SIAECOSYS).
I'm planning to buy the em50 from DUN. That's where it's the cheapest now. Can you confirm it'll be good? (Or better than the Sia version.)

rienesl   100 mW

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Re: Votol EM-100 & EM-150 controllers

Post by rienesl » Dec 27 2021 2:39am

DUN is the cheapest? Sure? That would be the first time ever. For exactly this reason I had never ordered from them, so I can not say much. But if the controller has a serial interface and is not on CAN, you should be on the safe side. However, the SIAECOSYS has the hard coded "soft start" acceleration, but has the ability to configure the current(!) separately for each "gear". That was important for my ultra long range project. The ordinary version has just one current setting valid for all gears and one for sport. For configuration I have wrote a lot on the 50 something pages, if you are getting the 2.33 firmware and the Sport9 software (yes, different firmware and different software result in different results!)

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BareKuda   100 W

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Re: Votol EM-100 & EM-150 controllers

Post by BareKuda » Dec 28 2021 1:06am

Sattva Ram wrote:
Dec 26 2021 10:54pm
Right now I have a scooter with friggin mid motor. I roll off the throttle and the wheel stops so fast as if it had regen. Yet zero amps are coming back. I literally have to pull the throttle even on relatively steep declines so it doesnt stop. I have no choice but to weld a freewheel onto it. That's the only way that friggin scooter will ever be good. Still wont have regen but at least it will be able to coast.
A scooter like a Vespa? Do you think it’s throttle-off eABS or just a non-back-drivable transmission?

Sattva Ram   100 W

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Re: Votol EM-100 & EM-150 controllers

Post by Sattva Ram » Dec 28 2021 1:52am

Naah. Not the moped the scooter. Small wheels on a board with steering.

Sattva Ram   100 W

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Re: Votol EM-100 & EM-150 controllers

Post by Sattva Ram » Dec 28 2021 1:59am

BareKuda wrote:
Dec 28 2021 1:06am
Sattva Ram wrote:
Dec 26 2021 10:54pm
Right now I have a scooter with friggin mid motor. I roll off the throttle and the wheel stops so fast as if it had regen. Yet zero amps are coming back. I literally have to pull the throttle even on relatively steep declines so it doesnt stop. I have no choice but to weld a freewheel onto it. That's the only way that friggin scooter will ever be good. Still wont have regen but at least it will be able to coast.
A scooter like a Vespa? Do you think it’s throttle-off eABS or just a non-back-drivable transmission?
https://www.fruugo.hu/cipzar-elektromos ... 6zEALw_wcB

This shit.

No regen no e-abs nothing. Just a motor with a huge drag. And a 5amp no load consumption.

I'm planning to buy this

€ 4,90 20%OFF | 2pcs Bicycle Freewheel Adapter Iron DIY E-Bike Scooter Freewheel Adapter Electric Bicycle Scooter Freewheel Adapter Accessory
https://a.aliexpress.com/_mN0dUg0

€ 14,98 67%OFF | 54 Teeth Scooter Sprocket Chain Drive Gear + Toothless Freewheel For T8F Chain Steel High Quality Durable And Practical
https://a.aliexpress.com/_mN6bmmc

It'll be hard to weld it onto the wheel the BCD of the sprocket is exactly the diameter size of the adapter. So i'll have to weld it on the bolts directly...

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BareKuda   100 W

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Re: Votol EM-100 & EM-150 controllers

Post by BareKuda » Dec 28 2021 12:02pm

Sattva Ram wrote:
Dec 28 2021 1:59am

This shit.

No regen no e-abs nothing. Just a motor with a huge drag. And a 5amp no load consumption.
The ads and videos I found for that say it has ABS brakes, and since i know thise cable actuated Disk brakes aren't ABS they must be taking about the motor.

I cant tell what size front sprocket is but seems like 7 tooth and with that huge back sprocket its not going to be back-driveable. The general rule for each reduction it can have a maximum of 5:1. So their “ABS” might just be a motor with high eddy current losses trying to be back driven through a 1:8 ratio. The torque required is a lot more than 8x the motor drag.

My last scooter had e-lock programed in and the back tire would lock up if you start rolling it, even with the key off. Had to turn on the ignition for it to release the e-lock.

But if you take your battery out and cant move it then its not e-anything trying to stop you.

Instead of a sprag clutch just put your QS138 in it with a 3:1 ratio and it will back drive and be scary. Lol

Sattva Ram   100 W

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Re: Votol EM-100 & EM-150 controllers

Post by Sattva Ram » Dec 28 2021 12:11pm

Naah I am not buying Qs for this piece of garbage. Actually i didnt know that it was originally DC motor. It turned out later when I looked at it. I just couldnt bear the idea of a DC motor so I changed it to a brand new BLDC in the hope that it was the DC motor the bad. But it's pretty much the same drag nothing really changed with bldc. It's my controller so I know it has no regen or abs. The DC was the same btw huuuge drag. No choice the only way is a freewheel conversion. Anyway I'm selling it so I dont even know whether to invest in it. The problem with me is that I hate selling junk I just cant bear the idea that something is not as good as it could be. So i guess i'll do it. Ratio 11-54 right now.

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BareKuda   100 W

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Re: Votol EM-100 & EM-150 controllers

Post by BareKuda » Dec 28 2021 2:48pm

Sattva Ram wrote:
Dec 28 2021 12:11pm
Naah I am not buying Qs for this piece of garbage. Actually i didnt know that it was originally DC motor. It turned out later when I looked at it. I just couldnt bear the idea of a DC motor so I changed it to a brand new BLDC in the hope that it was the DC motor the bad. But it's pretty much the same drag nothing really changed with bldc. It's my controller so I know it has no regen or abs. The DC was the same btw huuuge drag. No choice the only way is a freewheel conversion. Anyway I'm selling it so I dont even know whether to invest in it. The problem with me is that I hate selling junk I just cant bear the idea that something is not as good as it could be. So i guess i'll do it. Ratio 11-54 right now.
While looking for my next toy i also don't want something that has bad characteristics. But lately im doing all my shopper online and its more like roulette than anything.

Sometimes i just want to see what sort of crap ill get for $300.

https://shopee.ph/Electric-bicycle-sco ... 2610045644

It says it has a 48v 20ah lithium battery but that must be using the 10,000 mah Chinese 18650s. Lol. I guess the real capacity is 8ah.

Sattva Ram   100 W

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Re: Votol EM-100 & EM-150 controllers

Post by Sattva Ram » Dec 28 2021 3:02pm

No waaay I ever buy crap like these again. This scooter was enough to learn. The neighbor's moped is so so so frikkin bad too. EVERYTHING is bad about these craps I'm telling you. The suspension the brake even the welds. It just makes zero sense to buy it.

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BareKuda   100 W

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Re: Votol EM-100 & EM-150 controllers

Post by BareKuda » Dec 28 2021 8:05pm

Sattva Ram wrote:
Dec 28 2021 3:02pm
No waaay I ever buy crap like these again. This scooter was enough to learn. The neighbor's moped is so so so frikkin bad too. EVERYTHING is bad about these craps I'm telling you. The suspension the brake even the welds. It just makes zero sense to buy it.
I cant afford a Harley Livewire to take apart and modify. Lol.

The main reason i want something tiny is so i can bring it up into the air conditioning and work on it.

I can barely get the battery for the Kuda up stairs. It weighs 75 lbs alone and this other ebike weighs about 55 lbs with the cough cough 20a ah lithium battery. Lol

Sattva Ram   100 W

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Re: Votol EM-100 & EM-150 controllers

Post by Sattva Ram » Dec 28 2021 8:16pm

Just buy a quality full suspensiom bicycle then. If you dont like the regular saddle buy a no nose saddle that's kinda moped like.

Sattva Ram   100 W

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Re: Votol EM-100 & EM-150 controllers

Post by Sattva Ram » Dec 28 2021 8:22pm

The battery may not be so bad. The problem is tho that even from no name brand a battery like this should cost 300 alone. I have a no name shark pack here right now for BMS repair for someone and it's actually kinda good. But it wasnt cheap either. For this price you can only get "surefire" brand which is absolutely useless and the name is probably indicative of the property if you know what I mean.

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BareKuda   100 W

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Re: Votol EM-100 & EM-150 controllers

Post by BareKuda » Dec 28 2021 9:48pm

Sattva Ram wrote:
Dec 28 2021 8:16pm
Just buy a quality full suspensiom bicycle then. If you dont like the regular saddle buy a no nose saddle that's kinda moped like.
I have a decent bicycle. I just want to make something.

My first electric scooter was ok, but felt like a heavy duty bicycle not a scooter. And the rear springs are preloaded to 250 lbs so it acted like a hardtail unless there was a rear passenger that hit McDonald’s daily.

The new electric scooter is significantly more substantial. The front and rear suspension work good and it drives like a 50cc scooter.

The real 48v 20ah lithium batteries of that design are about 30% taller. That one is real world be 12ah, and more likely its 8ah using Firefly 10,000 mah cells. Lol.

Sattva Ram   100 W

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Re: Votol EM-100 & EM-150 controllers

Post by Sattva Ram » Dec 29 2021 1:25am

The derbi gp1 is what I'd do if I wanted a moped. It's not light tho so no good for you.

I'm thinkin of modifying the em30 to 12Fets. It has a bigass heatsink it could accomodate a shitton of fets...If I could do it I would have a dirt cheap very powerful proper controller..

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BareKuda   100 W

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Re: Votol EM-100 & EM-150 controllers

Post by BareKuda » Dec 29 2021 9:01pm

Sattva Ram wrote:
Dec 29 2021 1:25am
The derbi gp1 is what I'd do if I wanted a moped. It's not light tho so no good for you.

I'm thinkin of modifying the em30 to 12Fets. It has a bigass heatsink it could accomodate a shitton of fets...If I could do it I would have a dirt cheap very powerful proper controller..
I wanted to take my EM-30 cover off but its clued on with lots sealant. I wanted to see the exact STM32 used and try to learn more about it,

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afzal   10 W

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Re: Votol EM-100 & EM-150 controllers

Post by afzal » Dec 30 2021 12:01am

BareKuda wrote:
Dec 29 2021 9:01pm

I wanted to take my EM-30 cover off but its clued on with lots sealant. I wanted to see the exact STM32 used and try to learn more about it,
STM32F103C8T6 is the marking on EM100 processor, suspecting that EM30, EM150 etc. too have it

Sattva Ram   100 W

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Re: Votol EM-100 & EM-150 controllers

Post by Sattva Ram » Dec 30 2021 1:43am

You can pry it off with a bit of force. It isnt glued so badly...but you have to glue it back.

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afzal   10 W

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Re: Votol EM-100 & EM-150 controllers

Post by afzal » Dec 31 2021 5:51am

afzal wrote:
Dec 30 2021 12:01am
BareKuda wrote:
Dec 29 2021 9:01pm

I wanted to take my EM-30 cover off but its clued on with lots sealant. I wanted to see the exact STM32 used and try to learn more about it,
STM32F103C8T6 is the marking on EM100 processor, suspecting that EM30, EM150 etc. too have it
Lishui & Xaiomi M365 controllers too have the same processor & there are open source firmware's available for those.

If Votol schematics could be reverse engineered, that could be a step forward to create open source firmware for it. If successful, user would have control over the controller :wink: and dealing with the mysterious Votol configuration software could be done away with.

Sattva Ram   100 W

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Re: Votol EM-100 & EM-150 controllers

Post by Sattva Ram » Dec 31 2021 2:17pm

afzal wrote:
Dec 30 2021 12:01am
BareKuda wrote:
Dec 29 2021 9:01pm

I wanted to take my EM-30 cover off but its clued on with lots sealant. I wanted to see the exact STM32 used and try to learn more about it,
STM32F103C8T6 is the marking on EM100 processor, suspecting that EM30, EM150 etc. too have it

Dont you know how to set the motor temperature data? I heard somewhere that there is a key combination or something. Tbh i am starting to suspect that it has motor temp sensor and once my lm35 got faulty I might just be able to use a kty instead.

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BareKuda   100 W

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Re: Votol EM-100 & EM-150 controllers

Post by BareKuda » Dec 31 2021 8:01pm

afzal wrote:
Dec 30 2021 12:01am
BareKuda wrote:
Dec 29 2021 9:01pm

I wanted to take my EM-30 cover off but its clued on with lots sealant. I wanted to see the exact STM32 used and try to learn more about it,
STM32F103C8T6 is the marking on EM100 processor, suspecting that EM30, EM150 etc. too have it
Thanks, ill try to look up the datasheet to see what the built in FOC control uses, but like you say you still need to reverse engineer any modifiers Votol added in.

It would be nice if someone made a program that can modify anything designed to be modified.

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BareKuda   100 W

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Re: Votol EM-100 & EM-150 controllers

Post by BareKuda » Dec 31 2021 8:02pm

Sattva Ram wrote:
Dec 30 2021 1:43am
You can pry it off with a bit of force. It isnt glued so badly...but you have to glue it back.
I wasn’t ready for a “hold my beer” moment before i even knew if it worked better i voided the warranty. Lol

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BareKuda   100 W

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Re: Votol EM-100 & EM-150 controllers

Post by BareKuda » Dec 31 2021 8:06pm

Sattva Ram wrote:
Dec 31 2021 2:17pm
Dont you know how to set the motor temperature data? I heard somewhere that there is a key combination or something. Tbh i am starting to suspect that it has motor temp sensor and once my lm35 got faulty I might just be able to use a kty instead.
The only thing i saw was in port settings there are a few thermistor or something to choose from. Not sure if it just relies on that or has a way to change the throttle back temperature.

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BareKuda   100 W

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Re: Votol EM-100 & EM-150 controllers

Post by BareKuda » Dec 31 2021 8:24pm

Sattva Ram wrote:
Dec 31 2021 2:17pm
Don’t buy that $300 POS…
I ordered it and im wondered what I’ll dissect first. Lol. Probably the battery to see what’s inside and if the balance function works ok.

Im practicing on my power bank, 3P2S, which got pretty far out of balance from sitting idle too long without a charge.
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One side was 0.2v lower than the other so I manually balanced it to 0.02v and will see what the BMS does in the end.

I’m checking videos about lithium ebike batteries to get some ideas but will need to take it apart to see what it really does and if its just low budget top balance bleed resistors or active balancing, and when does it end balancing, when the light turns green or what. It would be nice to have red/blue/green led for charging/balancing/fully charged and balanced.

Hopefully i can take it apart easer than the votol EM-30. Lol.

Im ready to be amazed with this $300 lithium powered ebike. Lol

I found another ad i was going to post here for your entertainment but i lost it and cant find it. It was a similar size bike, folding, and said it has eABS, and puts energy back in the battery.

Then it said “you can recharge going down a hill” and i said “ok, seems legit”.
Then it said “you can tow it with something to charge it” and i said, “ok, sketchy but can work”.
Then the ad said “you can peddle to charge it” and I said “who is going to try to peddle something hard enough to charge it on their way home to charge it with the charger?” Lol.

Anyway ordering from these online sites is like getting a prize in the bottom of a Cracker Jacks box. You pay for crap, you get crap, but still amazed of how much crap China can give you for $300. Lol

UPDATE:
I found the ad. Lol.
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https://www.lazada.com.ph/products/byc ... 98266.html

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