Will these parts zoom, crawl, or go bang!

Easy-pd

10 W
Joined
Jun 8, 2015
Messages
87
First post, be nice :?

Reading for a while, great resource here and I have been inspired. I have an electric longboard. To be fair, it was an afternoon project with a decent longboard and a kids toy. No speed controller, just a motor, lead acid battery and a switch. It is (was) pretty awful. With the motor disconnected, the board is a pleasure to ride

The trucks, mounts wheels and drivetrain are good, so I am going for an upgrade.

I got (waiting for it all to arrive)

Arduino, wii wireless nunchuck, wiichuck adapter.

Red brick 125a esc

Zippy 5000mah 20c 3s (x2)

But then, I came home from a barbecue and beers, went on ebay and bought this before I stumbled to bed:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/221785339687?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

My electrical knowledge is poor, I am building this for fun from the internet tutorials as something to do.

I am pretty sure I have the right bits, just the motor I am unsure on. I THINK (but in no way am sure) that from what I can see, this motor is pretty high torque, which is good? There seems to be little on it. It's brushless and 24v?

If I type the motor model into Google, I see its used on a commercial ebike, so my logic says I must be close?

If the motor is good, my only other challenge is getting the toothed cog onto it from the old motor to run the belt. As I haven't received it yet, I will just have to wait. Are they glued, or welded, or screwed on?

So thoughts? Zoom, crawl, or bang?
 
Hello, welcome to the forum,
My advice would be that if you are new to this to stick with the most commonly used parts on the forum as this is what people have experience with. I think that motor could work, high torque is good yes but I'd be surprised if anyone on here has used one for an electric skateboard. Basically the most common motors are the ntm prop drive 270k and the turnigy sk3 213kv (what I use). Both require slightly different set-ups but the advantage is that if you stick to just RC parts then it is just 'plug and play'. Also there are several builds that use these motors that you can get some ideas from.
As with the belt drive system, usually the big pulley is bolted onto the wheel with a support on the other aide and the smaller pulley is held on by a keyway or a flat with grub screws (not sure if your motor has a keyway or a flat, you might have to make one)
Hope that helps a bit :)
 
Thanks, well as I have (ahem) drunkenly ordered the motor, I thought I'd play and see what happens. I learn far better hands on. I am lucky, the trucks came from a blown eboard for free, so have the motor hanger and the wheel has the cog and belt. I f that doesn't work, the truck has a kind of bracket welded to it, so I could do a custom motor hanger if needed and bolt it straight on

I guess the existing 100w 12v motor is out of the question? That was from when the eboard was set up for a child. It was poor for my weight with a lead acid battery and a switch, I expect it will perform better with the speed controller and better batteries, but nowhere near adequate.

How does 270k convert to torque? I can't find the k figure, but can find a figure of 78 oz/in
 
He meant kv. Read this tutorial to learn about kv http://www.flyelectric.com/ans.kv.html

For a fun eboard you need good torque but also a high enough top speed, and you definitely won't get that with a $20 motor. Maybe post a pic of what you have already, like the motor mount already connected to trucks, and also post a budget, and we can help you pick out some parts.
 
777arc said:
He meant kv. Read this tutorial to learn about kv http://www.flyelectric.com/ans.kv.html

For a fun eboard you need good torque but also a high enough top speed, and you definitely won't get that with a $20 motor. Maybe post a pic of what you have already, like the motor mount already connected to trucks, and also post a budget, and we can help you pick out some parts.

I'll get some pics tomorrow when it's light. I think it's only the motor that has a question mark. The parts should be waiting at work day after tomorrow when I go back in. I get it all delivered to work now, because I get my wife saying 'what crap have you bought now' whenever it arrives! :lol:
 
Here we go, got two minutes to nip out:

The deck
image.jpg1_zps5xp2oijy.jpg


Rear truck and wheels. I may completely change the motor hanger, but if I can utilise it, why not!
image.jpg2_zpslsakudup.jpg


Bottom, re sprayed Matt grey (I know it will be covered by components)

This is a fun project, so it may go wrong, but I'll enjoy trying
 
No info i could find on that motor either. Good luck and hope you have fun figuring it out. worst case you are out 20 right?! (as long as you wear safety gear and test someplace safe).

I would make sure to test the wii connection someplace "noisy" - lots of wifi or 2.4 interference. I've heard of several folks that have had connection drops and less "fun" things with the wii controller. You note a arduino - are you doing the arduino/kama combo for your controller?

Make sure you add a good secure keyway if you can, or several grub screws to hold onto the shaft of your motor - torque is only good if you can keep the pulley stationary on the motor shaft!

Look forward to seeing your build!

What's your backup plan? New motor if this one doesn't work? And motor mounts being considered? There are several great offerings now if you are willing to pay for one and don't have a CNC to build your own!
Best of luck!
 
Just 20,

I found this.
http://spurgeon.spurgeontech.com/scootertech/litton-motor-specs.pdf

The closest spec is the 4th one. So if I do rpm/volts, the kv is around 295, assumng the specs of the one in transit to me is similar?

Back up? Well it is just playing around, so a motor hanger if needed, I think I could hand cut and drill. The truck has a bracket welded on, so any mock ups can be bolted straight on.

If the motor is no good, I will be back here for replacement advice!

Using the arduino, as the wiiboard that you can get stateside doesn't seem to be available UK. Never head of arduino up to yesterday, so I kind of got it also just for the curiosity aspect. Again, may be an epic fail, but I'll have fun trying!
 
Sounds like a fun project and lots to learn!

295kv is a bit high - do you know what the gearing is on the existing motor/wheel? what size are the wheels now? I got a calculator from Richard (beetbocks) that lets me figure top speed depending on motor kv, gearing motor/hub and voltage. Can give you an idea of top speed.

Going to run the 3s 5000mAh in series or parallel or individually? Series = 6s 5000mAh. Parallel = 3s 10000mAh. Higher voltage 6s vs 3s will be more efficient and be less Amps on the ESC. This is as i understand it not being an EE (electrical engineer) and just a simple old hobbyist. If this is super rudimentary i don't mean to insult you.

Will follow and look forward to seeing your build!
 
Rudimentary is my language! Not an ee either. Just assumed I would run together for higher voltage to match the 24 v motor? I assume a 24v motor wth 12v power wouldn't work well?

If I connect as 6s, can I charge them like this, or do I have to disconnect and charge the two packs separately?

The wheels are pretty big for a skateboard and the gearing is factory set from the original blown up board. Your guess is good as mine. Could be a 2mph, or 20mph board. I kind of like the idea I won't know and will have to work on it to find out the potential.

What would happen if I ran the original 100w 12v motor with 6s 22v? Bang?
 
I'm just figuring this stuff out myself, so understand the fun of experimenting!

100w 12v motor would likely go "poof" then "flame"... Ok maybe not an absolute... but do it somewhere safe if you want to try. Not likely to be successful.

I would recommend charging them separately. Do you have a balance board? Do you have a decent lipo charger?

can you count the teeth on the cog/pulleys? How many on the motor, how many on the wheel? About what size wheel if you can guess?

My concern wouldn't be top speed so much as gearing. Lower is good for startup and torque up hills (or carrying a bigger person). 295kv is going to likely be fast, and probably will require a couple good kicks to get started and avoid most of the "cogging"/stuttering when starting.

Have fun and be safe!
 
sl33py said:
I would recommend charging them separately. Do you have a balance board? Do you have a decent lipo charger?

can you count the teeth on the cog/pulleys? How many on the motor, how many on the wheel? About what size wheel if you can guess?

sl33py said:
295kv is a bit high - do you know what the gearing is on the existing motor/wheel? what size are the wheels now? I got a calculator from Richard (beetbocks) that lets me figure top speed depending on motor kv, gearing motor/hub and voltage. Can give you an idea of top speed.

One of the things on its way to me is a 'lipo balance charger'. 8)

Been out counting and measuring. On the motor it is 16 teeth, the wheel has 60 teeth and the wheel is 82mm diameter. The belt is 15mm wide, but I don't think that makes the slightest difference.

It is worth noting the motor spindle on the new one is 8mm, so i need a new motor pulley gear anyway. If I can make improvements on the gearing now, please say so. I cannot really change the wheel side gear, but can make necessary changes when I order the motor side later on tonight.
 
It makes a lot of difference. For the belt I chose 5M HP going from 9mm to 15mm has a factor 1.87
So instead of being able to tranfer 1000W that wider belt can transfer 1870W.
 
Cool! Ok, doing a quick bit of checking w/ the speed calc - 83mm, 6s, 16/60 = 14.94mph! VERY low gear >3:1

In order to get the correct motor gear, you need to know which type of gear/belt to match. Does your belt have a stamp on the outside surface with the specs? length and pitch?

here's an example (not great, but i'll try to grab a pic when i'm home of one):
High-Torque-HTD-5M-Timing-belt-pitch-5mm-or-0-197-Neoprenen-Rubber-Customizing-all-kinds.jpg


HTD5 15mm belt is pretty common. I'm guessing and hoping it's the "standard" HTD5 and you can get a gear like these:
http://www.beltingonline.com/timing-pulleys-bars-272/htd5-pulleys-285/

So if it's the HTD5 (5mm pitch), just 15mm wide instead of 9mm like what i'm using - you can usually find the gears pretty easily.

Where are you located?

Here's the more common HTD5 9mm wide gear (which won't work for you) at DIY (torque's site):
http://diyelectricskateboard.com/product/aluminum-motor-pulley/

If you are in the UK - belting online has just about every kind of pulley/gear... and can also cut out the 8mm and 3mm keyway you should have w/ at least one grub screw. (you will need to grind a slot in the shaft of the motor for the keyway)
here's the 15mm 16t HTD5 pulley. once you add the 8mm shaft, 3mm keyway, and a couple 3mm grub screws = 11.17 GBP.
http://www.beltingonline.com/16-tooth-htd5-pulley-16-5m-15f-7774

and if you need another belt (still assuming it's HTD5 belt):
http://shop.polybelt.com/5m-15-15mm-Wide-Belts-Rubber_c61.htm

Here's a typical 265 for a lot of our setups - not sure how to tell which you should get. You need to tension the belt appropriately and switching gears will make you need a different length belt (which i might recommend sticking to 16/60).
http://shop.polybelt.com/265-5m-15-Rubber-Timing-Belt-53-Tooth-B265-5M-15BNG.htm

Which balance charger did you get?

HTH!
 
267 3m is the belt. Funny, I have been looking at the belting online site tonight.

So should I change the gearing?

I found the spreadsheet (or one like it) online.

As I can't change the big cog, I have played with the small cog. If I go up to 25 teeth, it will go well. However, will this be too much gearing for the board to go well, or will it take an age to hit top speed, or will other problems occur?

The charger on order:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/190818527250?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
 
I would stick with the same belt to start. You know the 16t motor pulley works w/ this setup.

There is a possibility if you go to a much stronger motor of stripping belts... This is something beto went through extensively when he "duplicated" a boosted board. Couldn't keep a belt from stripping out... but just digging to find that thread it was a gt2 belt i believe.

(great read/thread if you have time - very entertaining - beto is a great/funny writer: http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=35&t=56839)

Again - if you change gearing you will need to get different length belts. Does your motormount currently have some sort of adjustable tension to keep the belt properly tensioned? Over time they wear out/stretch. Improper tension - too loose and slips, too tight can ruin the bearings in your motor.

15mph is pretty damn fast - i would start there and adjust later if you need more speed. You might need to swap gears (not too difficult if you can find the right gear/belt for yours (3mm pitch i believe)).

here's a calculator to use for belt lengths if you change gears:
https://sdp-si.com/eStore/CenterDistanceDesigner

GL!
 
sl33py said:
simple - size of screw in mm. 2mm vs 3mm

Ok, of to work, where the motor should have arrived. Double check it's an 8 mm spindle. I guess the bigger grub will be better to cope with torque. I may need to go up to 18 teeth, struggling to get a 16 with 8mm spindle on 15mm belt
 
Small disaster :roll:

The parts have been arriving today. All good, except the motor.

It is huge

If I mounted it under the board, I reckon there would be 1cm road clearance. It is a beast of a motor, says 48v too. All is not lost. If this works, I have an idea for a two wheel mountain board type thing, so I'll keep it for later :twisted:

So, blank slate. Given I cannot change the wheel gear, what is the best motor and motor gear that will work with my parts?


As well as specific models or links to a particular model motor, I would prefer specs so I can bargain hunt ebay. So 6s, brushless, but what watt, for optimum speed, efficiency etc.

3m gear, 15mm belt

Help! :shock:

Sorry you guys are holding my hand a bit, but I appreciate the huge help I've had already.....
 
http://www.hobbyking.co.uk/hobbyking/store/__18178__Turnigy_Aerodrive_SK3_6354_245kv_Brushless_Outrunner_Motor.html

This?
 
How does this whole kv thing work? If I use the spreadsheet to increase the kv, the speed increases, yet everyone says lower kv is best.

Found a batch of turnigy motors on eBay cheap, kv:
149
236
275

Now if I use a 236 and current gearing, it goes slower. Confused :?
 
All is not lost - you just have a "spare" motor now! I'm sure it'll find a home some day...

So for a single motor i'd go with the venerable SK3 6364http://hobbyking.com/hobbyking/stor...ner_Motor_US_Warehouse_.html?strSearch=SK3 63 or 5065http://hobbyking.com/hobbyking/stor...SK3_5065_236kv_Brushless_Outrunner_Motor.html

213kv and 236kv linked.

with a new motor (both can go up to 10s), you will just need the motor gear and possibly a new belt. Again why i'd recommend sticking with 16t front/motor pulley/gear so that the belt stays the same (and you can just order extra belts of that size).

Question - what size motor will fit your motor mount? how far across are the center/bolt holes (not side to side, but X from eachother) The 50mm and 63mm motors have different distances and one might not fit your existing motor mount.

Did you check to see if your motor has a tension adjustment ability? If not you have to be exact on the belt since you can't tighten/loosen for a slight difference.

I see your issue with the 16t pulley... it only gives you 5mm and 6mm modification options (from stock 4mm bore). Give them a call and see if they can do 8mm w/ keyway and m3 grub screw?
 
the 5065 is only a 6mm shaft! so... if you get that motor you can get your 16t gear 6mm and VOILA! you are set!!!

Just check to confirm the 25mm bolt spacing will fit your motor mount? (63mm has a 32mm bolt spacing if i'm reading that correctly in their specs)

GL!
 
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