Direct Drive Genesis

standfast said:

Wow. Only 5 miles with no pedals? That doesn't sound too good for my plans. How much battery was that with? Average speed?

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all i meant was that riding with no pedals is boring to me. so don't try to punch that into your range calc....i live in a hilly area

Most of my test/short trips involve my Dewalt pack it is 80 cells 10c Sanyo 18650 cells so 20s 6ah

Drum said:

I like your freewheel adapter.. good use of available resources, and as long as the hub flange is well connected to the threaded portion, it looks strong enough and as light as possible.
I see you have two chainrings on the crankset.. are you planning a two-speed setup with a front derailleur?

Good to see it coming together so well.
Good to have some info on the range vs battery capacity as well.
Dave.

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thanks Dave, not sure what i want to do with gearing yet, but I need to figure something out. This thing has such good torque i wouldn't mind gearing the pedals for more high speed. I think that is my first step before i try to do anything drastic. The only reason that 2 piece crank is on their is because its 152mm and gives enough ground clearance. I would really like a 165mm minimum on there. I will more than likely have the either change the frame geometry or rebuild the wheels to either 24" trials or 19" moto to get more height. Not cool

damcard said:

Nice, That motor should replace my cyclone on my racelink bike. Thanks for posting about it. -Damcard

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I now own two of these motors, 2nd one came in the mail even faster. Although it has a few dings/dents in the aluminum cooling fins.

.

skeetab5780 said:

standfast said:

Wow. Only 5 miles with no pedals? That doesn't sound too good for my plans. How much battery was that with? Average speed?

Click to expand...

all i meant was that riding with no pedals is boring to me. so don't try to punch that into your range calc....i live in a hilly area

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Gotcha. My motor came in the other day and it was a little beat up as well. The input shaft was so smashed and deformed that the sprocket won't fit. The shaft was poking through the box when it showed up. The seller (ebike diffusion) is trying to get DHL to cover it but have a feeling this is going to be a long process!

standfast said:

skeetab5780 said:

standfast said:

Wow. Only 5 miles with no pedals? That doesn't sound too good for my plans. How much battery was that with? Average speed?

Click to expand...

all i meant was that riding with no pedals is boring to me. so don't try to punch that into your range calc....i live in a hilly area

Click to expand...

Gotcha. My motor came in the other day and it was a little beat up as well. The input shaft was so smashed and deformed that the sprocket won't fit. The shaft was poking through the box when it showed up. The seller (ebike diffusion) is trying to get DHL to cover it but have a feeling this is going to be a long process!

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Funny you mention that, my first one came in a box that looked mangled with hardly any foam/packing, but I opened it up and everything was perfect. I noticed the sprocket was already installed. Then when I got my second one I noticed it was in a much larger box and had way more foam/packaging all over it. No metal poking out or any exposed parts. Sprocket was not installed and was in a little bag, But there is some damage that looks to be prior to shipping you can see bent aluminum fins in the picture. That doesn't bother me though, looks are 1 thing.. a bent motor shaft is completely different. The metal is fairly soft though, id probably smash it on.

New battery pack has been performing very well! I have been commuting with it for a few days now with good results. I get over 15 miles on the battery and i don't even hit the low volt buzzer. When i get to work my cell voltage is around 3.8v per cell. I bulk charge at work with a 42v 2amp cheap charger that i soldered a Turnigy watt meter onto and paralleled two sets of Andersons off it to charge both halves of my 20s pack. And at home I'm still using the BC168 charger under supervision. The battery does have a decent amount of weight to it for only being 6p, so getting it put into a frame is key now. I cannot keep riding around with it in a bag.

On your rear caliper mount, how does that work with the axle slide for chain tensioning? The caliper looks fixed and the axle adjustable.

in the video, with 75v when you are reaching 15 amps... it literally takes my 9c 20s 50 amps and it wont even touch that.
figure out wh/mi yet?

I want one of these mounted near/under bb. would like to keep it going to a bb then to single cog. not sure if any bb freewheel can take the power directly? as in one stage reduction.

Awesome build mate. Sub'd.

Thankyou for posting your build! Excellent job, I love it!

I am planning the same, but this is my first and hopefully I get pretty close right off the bat.. . . Soo I have a question or too, and wanted to share a little if it's useful.

In reference to the motor- is it bht 48v-96v 1k- 6.8k watts?
You've figured the motor rpm is about 2500 rpm @ 72v loaded right?
And if that's the case, it explains why you didn't use #25 chain I think? (my understaning is to use smaller chain for higher rpms like 3k+ on some of the 48v 1000watt motors I've seen)
So you can go bigger for strength if not spinning as fast. ref. http://gizmology.net/sprockets.htm
I'd love to verify the rpm @ 48v and 72v. I've asked the seller, so hopefully. . .

it appears that for a 25"od shinko, @ 6:1 reduction would be 31mph @ 2500rpm. am I going about that right? I was considering a final gearing speed of 30-35 tops, but willing to sacrifice top for enough power. . . how long to get to speed when starting on the steep?

You were looking for a dual freewheel hub?
Maybe these would work, I'm thinking of using 'em http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-sided-threaded-hub-can-use-freewheel-and-Disc-brake-Mounting-/271585740902?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3f3bc58866
The seller has some cool 'one-of's'
I want to try to use a 6 speed freewheel and freewheel the motor driven sprocket seperately, while retaining the disc. This may require wider dropouts but that's ok. There's some good parts here if you ever change anything, although I asssume you're already aware? http://www.electricscooterparts.com/index.html

Thanks again for the awesome build post, it was hard to find because I can't figure a common name for this setup! How about Middirect Drive?

Awesome weekend reading. Thank you for the text and pictures of your adventure building this. You write all the details so many people leave out, and I felt like I had gone through everything you did making this bike.

It is a classic. I am glad I didn't give up in the first page I was ready to pull the pin I going down this path with lack of bottom end take off torque but saw it was solved and had a happy ending.

I think I should buy a motor and then work out the rest, usually I like to work out as much as possible before anything is bought in case of wastage, but often you've got to take the first step to shove you into finding solutions.

thanks and subbed.

I am going to search out a custom swingarm and frame for this around a smaller rear pitbike tyre.

Does anyone have a link to where I can buy this type of motor please?

http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=57483

I'm sure it's linked in this thread at least once. And you can learn more about it.

Here is a mock-up of the new Genesis frame I got from Wally world The front end is all tightened up and brakes installed, now to throw a coat of paint on the swingarm and mount a motor to it!

So after finding DanGt's post on a new swingarm design, I decided to take the plunge into another Genesis build. It is going to be BHT powered for now, but I also have a new higher KV motor I may attempt to swap to so I can reduce voltage for the same speed. So far I've gotten everything mocked up together. I will still need to mount the motor to the swing after having my brother weld a plate to it!

Here are some pics of the swingarm to look at




Getting ready to take the stock arm off the bike (I still haven't taken the stock bottom bracket out lol) You can see my sweet 17" stevil Voloci wheels which make you feel so safe going down the road at 40mph




I ended up not having a metric allen big enough for the swingarm press cups so I ended up using the head of a metric hex bolt in a large pair of vice grips. Worked like a charm!
I may end up needing a longer shock since I don't think there will be enough pedal clearance still.


Only time will tell, a few more days and ill know for sure




Pictures of the front end. Seems to be coming along nicely, im liking it so far



And then a nice shot of the whole bike so far

It looks good to me.
Did you have to cut your fork to fit the genysis frame.

Good progress. Your small wheels are making me think all kinds of crazy stuff like: I wonder what that would be like with no pedals and a moto seat? What is the current height to a non-adjustable ref point like the top of the seat tube?

tiny_n_terrible said:

It looks good to me.
Did you have to cut your fork to fit the genysis frame.

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the fork is SR suntour duro older style. It was already cut for other bikes and fit the frame good. I did have to shave off the V-brake bosses to fit the 17" moto wheels.

DanGT86 said:

Good progress. Your small wheels are making me think all kinds of crazy stuff like: I wonder what that would be like with no pedals and a moto seat? What is the current height to a non-adjustable ref point like the top of the seat tube?

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29" to the top back of the seat post clamp!

Got the Genesis up and running temporarily with a MXUS 4T and a Lyen 12-fet 4110 so I can rip around this weekend. I haven't been riding much lately since I am in the middle of two builds. This is the hub I bought off Creezy, thanks man.



Right now I have the batteries in the backpack since this genesis frame has no place to mount batteries, I may get a saddle bag to drape on each side on the frame.

Here is a shot of the 17" moto wheel near the shaved brake bosses on my front fork. They needed to go or else this wheel wouldn't bolt in.

Here is a couple pictures of the two motors I have to work with. The first is the BHT second is the new one I got from LR




Still waiting on my swingarm so not sure if this will happen, we will see!

Put the stock rear 26" tire back onto the Gen Farf and started laying out a new mid drive build. I decided not to wait for DanGT to get me my other swingarm I am planning on trying the new motor I have with a higher KV than the BHT. Looks like it will fit just perfectly. I am planning on actually going thru the crank on this one with a HD freewheel. I have never done that before and I am interested in the gearing possibilities. If I decide I don't like it, it will be easy to go direct drive again.


I will probably turn that 219 sprocket around so the chainline is closer to the frame, I saw someone else that did that.

My ugly throttle cables need to get out of the way here!

Skeetab does that LR motor weigh about the same as bht? If so isn't it kinda major overkill for going thru the crank? I assume bike drivetrains start wearing pretty fast @ 3kw right, and these 11 pounders seem pretty happy even up over 6kw, geared direct on a light ride at up to 0-40mph!!

Btw, it's a nice lookin motor and 2nd genny build so far! 8)

Well done, sir!..."ebike porn" indeed...

If using the BHT, the single reduction would work best with a higher voltage, but...if using 48V/52V, the higher kV of the Lightning Rods motor + jackshaft would result in a better torque at the rear wheel.

yes watching closely indeed. what was the bht kv?

The beauty of your swing arm has just lost it's sparkle when you gona go straight into the bb... I mean you could just mount the big block in its usualy place on any bike and run straight to bb without a jackshaft and weight would be centred better.

I want to try going your way but I just think the big block kv is the problem for direct....

I have had never ending problems trying to get the most out of this motor, and all I can say is that the less chains fan dango the better.

If I could get 5kw direct to the rear I think I'd be over the moon.....