YZF600R Thundercat EV

jonescg said:
Looks great Bern!

The spaghetti junction looks a bit chaotic, but enclosing it inside the polycarb box is a great move.
Hi Chris,
I can tidy up the wiring by making the wiring shorter, the polycarbonate was based on your design. My choice of batteries pretty much determined the design. I do want to get hold of some EIG's or Farasis pouch cells though simolar to yours but I will have to save up first.
 
kfong said:
That is one scary pack! I'm imagining all that weight resting on the bottom packs with no support when going over bumps. I would of gone with the latest generation power tool cells. They now equal or exceed lipo's capacity in the same amount of space without the fire hazard. I can't even imagine what your pack will do if it catches fire, since no one has documented a fire with that many packs. I'm cautious enough with my lipos, but I would be absolutly nervous with yours. I hope you have a safe area to charge and store the bike. I've only seen that amount in cars, but at least stored in the metal trunk.

Hi kfong,
You have a point, the pack has 4 shelves, all the shelves have 3 rows apart from the top which has two rows. This reduces the weight on the bottom rows to only two batteries which is manageable. I will be installing a fire supprescent as a precaution once I work out where to store it. The batteries are of good quality and protected by lvc and hvc circuits and a good charger.

I mentioned in Chris Jones' reply about larger format pouch cells which I will build in the next iteration of this pack.

Thanks for your comments.

Bernel
 
Provided the QC has been done on the LiPo packs, and they are kept within their happy range, I see no reason this pack will ever self-immolate. My battery is 9 kWh of single cell LiPo and it's not got any shelving to support it. The lowest cell has about 0.01 MPa on it, and the point at which the cells start to show signs of suffering is about 1 MPa.

Looking forward to seeing how she goes!
 
It has been a while since my last update, work commitments and finance has stalled road tests but I can say that the bike feels heavier on the front end. I will address this once I get the bike MOT'd.

So what have I been up to? Well now that the weather has turned cold I have been working on my wireless dashboard and looking to replace the LED voltmeter. I will upload a video of the dashboard and volt meter to my YouTube channel and link to it here.

In the mean time here are some pictures of what I have been up to.....

I was not comfortable with the idea of 84V running through the bike to the dashboard voltmeter so I have used an Arduino and a small LCD display instead. The system comprises of a voltage divider, Arduino Pro Mini 3.3V and a Nokia 5110 LCD display. This is the same display I use for my temperature monitoring. The voltage divider reduces the voltage to 3.3V, the box will live in the battery pack.
View attachment 3
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View attachment 1


The LCD display will go in a nice little box on my dashboard. I know it is small but this is a temporary fix until I install my wireless dash board.
 
Bernel said:
It has been a while since my last update, work commitments and finance has stalled road tests but I can say that the bike feels heavier on the front end. I will address this once I get the bike MOT'd.

So what have I been up to? Well now that the weather has turned cold I have been working on my wireless dashboard and looking to replace the LED voltmeter. I will upload a video of the dashboard and volt meter to my YouTube channel and link to it here.

In the mean time here are some pictures of what I have been up to.....

I was not comfortable with the idea of 84V running through the bike to the dashboard voltmeter so I have used an Arduino and a small LCD display instead. The system comprises of a voltage divider, Arduino Pro Mini 3.3V and a Nokia 5110 LCD display. This is the same display I use for my temperature monitoring. The voltage divider reduces the voltage to 3.3V, the box will live in the battery pack.
View attachment 3
View attachment 2
View attachment 1


The LCD display will go in a nice little box on my dashboard. I know it is small but this is a temporary fix until I install my wireless dash board.
Cute :) got my interest in Arduinos refreshed when I stumbled over the "Postbag" YouTube series. Might replicate your temperature monitor.
It's kind of curious that you have a fairly regular (no offense) drivetrain and are spending your time on the battery pack build and I went the opposite way with the off-the-shelf AESC modules, spending my time trying to get my "fancy" drivetrain usable...

Anyway, we're longing for an update, mate!
 
Hi Marcexec,
I have been really busy tidying up wiring and making things more robust. I bought an isolated voltage transducer so I can measure my battery voltage safely. I replaced the little lcd screen and arduino pro mini with an arduino mega, ethernet shield with SD card and a wireless router. The screens are web pages hosted on the SD card as a webserver.

The plan is to remove my gauges and replace them with a touch screen tablet. I have also replaced the battery current shunt resistor with a through hole current sensor. I need to buy another through hole current sensor for the motor current, I was trying to use the Kelly controller meter output, convert it to 0V to 5V output so it can be read by the arduino. My RC filter didn't work though.

So far I have battery pack voltage, battery current, ambient air temperature, battery temperature, controller temperature and motor temperature as analogue inputs. I used an open source arduino sketch and modified it to get ampere hours, watt hours and power.

My next step is to source two frequency to analogue voltage converters so I can use a proximity sensor for vehicle speed and motor rpm, I already have a sensor for motor rpm which connects to the existing tachometer.

Once I am happy with the readings I will remove all the analogue gauges from the console. I have bought a spare console surround so I can start hacking it up ready for the tablet.

I will get the bike MOT'd soon so I can start testing it.

That's all for now.

That's it for now
 
Hi Everyone,
It's been a while since I last posted and I have a few updates. Back in March after powering up the bike from being idle over the winter period the Kelly controller red led stays on for about 20 minutes before it starts flashing. The codes are 2,2 and 3,1. I have to turn the power off then back on again before it works normally. There had not been any changes to the wiring since I had left it standing, I have assumed that the cold conditions had somehow allowed moisture to affect the internals. Any way once I got the bike going I was then having problems with my 12V system, I had a Kelly 72V/12V DC converter, this was my mistake, I should have bought the 72V/13.5V version. So I replaced it with the 72V/13.5V version and that cleared up the 12V system faults. We are now in April and I'm test riding the bike with the 70Ah pack, I'm riding round the village at 30 and 40 mph to test the range when the controller cuts in and out again. It seems to be a low voltage and I get the 2,2 (Internal voltage fault) and 3,2 (transient fault). I contacted Kelly Controls and they gave me some tips and how to diagnose the fault. I will strip the bike down and have a look at the controller during the May Half term holiday.

This evening the weather has improved and its 22 degrees C, I fire up the bike and the controller goes straight to green! I am making another assumption here that the condition is temperature related. I will monitor it for now and see what happens.

Any way I have some good data for those wishing to convert a 600 ICE bike to electric:-
1. 74V nominal is not enough voltage, top speed is 75 mph with 15T/47T ratio and my 85kg's on the bike
2. Acceleration with the 600A Kelly Controller set at max amps takes about 11 to 14 seconds to get to 60mph
3.Make sure, if you use a DC/DC converter for your 12V system, it can still operate at the lowest level of your battery discharge capacity. (I need 60V to 84V), the 13.5V DC converter lower limit is 68V, this might be why my controller kept cutting out.
4.RC LiPo packs are okay for prototyping and proof of concept but not for everyday use, I am now looking at getting some EIG or Enerdel pouch cells once I find the money.
5.At 74V nominal the voltage sagged to 70V with the throttle full open trying to get to 70 mph.
6. At 70mph motor speed = 2800 rpm

I have an Arduino installed which receives pack voltage, battery discharge current, rear wheel speed and temperature readings for ambient, battery, controller and motor. I will write a script on the arduino to carry out some data logging.

Below is my temporary wireless digital dashboard,

IMG_1176.JPG
IMG_1179.JPG

Here are some screen shots
io.JPG
View attachment 1
power.JPG

There are more and I can create what ever screen data I want.

That's all for now, thanks to all those who have helped me in this project, I welcome your comments.


Bernel
 
I spent yesterday evening tracing the wiring fault. It turned out to be damaged cable on 24V negative to the controller. The hall sensors from the motor are tied to this cable also. Any way the cable was repaired, I took the bike out for a test ride and ringed its neck for about 7 miles and all was good, no controller faults.

The ambient temperature was 14 degrees C and the controller case reached 45 degrees C and the motor climbed to 120 degrees C. I guess I need to make some modifications to the motor cooling.

The controller still has a power up error which clears when I power cycle it. I am looking at a Sevcon Gen4 Size 6. I found a UK supplier which is great, he also sells the programmer complete with cable. Better get saving!

That's all for now until the next time.

Bernel.
 
It's been a while since my last post, what's happened? Well the only thing of note is that a trashed my battery pack. I hadn't ridden it for three months and forgot to push the emergency stop button in. As a result my voltmeter drained the pack.

I will be rescuing the cells that did not over discharge over the next few months and make a new pack.

As luck would have it I have come into a source of "FREE" :D Samung ICR18650-22P cells. I know they are not the latest but they are FREE, as they come in I will start building a new pack with these cells.
IMG_0152.JPG

I now have the opportunity to build a pack to any configuration I like within the confines of the battery box space. So what are my Options? Well here is a table below of what I have come up with so far.

Battery table.JPG

I need a new controller, as mine has a fault, so I am looking at the high voltage Kelly Controllers. Any help in deciding would be greatly appreciated.

Bye for now

Bernel.
 
Which high voltage controller are you looking at? 28 in parallel isn't high voltage :lol:

Keep posting mate! We miss you!
 
Hi Chris,
I am not looking to build a race bike.............yet! I guess I mean higher voltage than 74V, with 18650 cells I can go to 130V, if I reconfigure my current batteries, 5S 5Ah I would go to 92.5V. I am looking at either the 144V 600A or 120V 1000A Kelly brushless controllers. I am trying to the maximum out of my ME0913. Kelly's are cheap and easy to program.

I am salvaging the good batteries from my trashed pack so I hope to be back on the road by the end of March.

Regards,

Bernel
 
Hello everyone, some movements on my project. I have just ordered a Mobipus 72600, it seems this controller gives good power. I will run it at my current nominal voltage, 74V and get some base line data.

My battery pack rebuild is slow going, Enerdel and EIG cells are way too expensive. Nissan Leaf cells are affordable at a stretch. There is a damaged repairable leaf for sale on eBay for £3795 complete with battery, I might go for it.

In the mean time I will make a 20S 20Ah and 22S 20Ah pack for performance testing. The Mobipus maximum voltage is 90V.

Updates to follow.

Bernel
 
There is a bit of a delay on the Mobipus delivery so I snapped up a Sevcon Gen4 80V 350A cheap to get the bike going. I am now sourcing the IXXAT USB to CAN V2 D SUB9, DVT and 913 dcf.
Fingers crossed everybody.

Bernel.

Sent from my SM-T310 using Tapatalk
 
Bernel said:
There is a bit of a delay on the Mobipus delivery so I snapped up a Sevcon Gen4 80V 350A cheap to get the bike going. I am now sourcing the IXXAT USB to CAN V2 D SUB9, DVT and 913 dcf.
Fingers crossed everybody.

Bernel.

Sent from my SM-T310 using Tapatalk

Good luck mate, I hear programming can be difficult.
 
The Thundercat EV breathes again. With help from John Fiorenza, (Motenergy), Phil Eagleton at Voltsport and my Facebook Electric Mototcycle Builders Group I was able to get the Sevcon going.

Very big milestone. I will be testing the set up with my 20Ah 20S LiPo pack, hopefully some videos to.

Things to do:-
1. Get remote LED controller indication on my dashboard
2. Fine tune motor settings
4. Tidy up wiring
5. Investigate CAN dashboard options
6. Get Leaf cells

Bernel.
 
I now have a Gen 4 Size 6 in the bike at 78V nominal and 30kW peak power gives me a peak current of 375A. The Sevcon has calculated this to be 57Nm of torque. The motor is good for 90Nm and 425A rms at 100V.

I am working in improving the cooling so I can throw more amps in and still chasing some Nissan Leaf cells. If there is one thing I have learned during this build is that you need OEM grade equipment on a road bike.

I have a 5 inch tft touch screen alongside the analogue speedo, the touch screen is connected to Arduino Mega microcontrollers which capture temperatures, speed, battery voltage, battery current and charge current. Sounds good but not robust enough.

I will post some videos when I get the time.

Bernel
 
Bernel said:
I now have a Gen 4 Size 6 in the bike at 78V nominal and 30kW peak power gives me a peak current of 375A...still chasing some Nissan Leaf cells. If there is one thing I have learned during this build is that you need OEM grade equipment on a road bike.

Unless you're planning to go 2p with the modules Leaf batteries aren't up to the task.
 
John in CR said:
Bernel said:
I now have a Gen 4 Size 6 in the bike at 78V nominal and 30kW peak power gives me a peak current of 375A...still chasing some Nissan Leaf cells. If there is one thing I have learned during this build is that you need OEM grade equipment on a road bike.

Unless you're planning to go 2p with the modules Leaf batteries aren't up to the task.

I am open to suggestions, I can build a 100V, 70Ah pack out of pouch cells or buy a Nissan Leaf pack, take it apart and repurpose the cell elements to build 2P pack.
 
John in CR said:
Bernel said:
I now have a Gen 4 Size 6 in the bike at 78V nominal and 30kW peak power gives me a peak current of 375A...still chasing some Nissan Leaf cells. If there is one thing I have learned during this build is that you need OEM grade equipment on a road bike.

Unless you're planning to go 2p with the modules Leaf batteries aren't up to the task.

I am open to suggestions, I can build a 100V, 70Ah pack out of pouch cells or buy a Nissan Leaf pack, take it apart and repurpose the cell elements to build 2P pack.
 
Nissan runs their modules all in series for high voltage, so they don't draw big current. They're safe and have lots of capacity. The newer ones, instead of the old 2p2s cell configuration, are a double stack of that in one can with 6 terminals so you can still bolt to each 2p of cells. At the current levels you require, you need to run double in parallel that Nissan does. 5 modules wired in series gets you 20s or 74V nominal, and IMO you need to double that up in parallel at your current levels, so 10 of the newer modules which would give you over 200ah of capacity at 74V weighing 87kg.
 
Hi, awesome project! I was just wondering if the Mobipus controller is still in the pipeline? I'm debating between their 600A model or a Sevcon gen4 and wondering if you might have experience with both?

Batteries are still a question mark for me too. I'm considering Chevy volt cells, or possibly a 32s2p custom pack of Yinlong LTO 40ah cylindrical cells.
 
Mandres said:
Hi, awesome project! I was just wondering if the Mobipus controller is still in the pipeline? I'm debating between their 600A model or a Sevcon gen4 and wondering if you might have experience with both?

Batteries are still a question mark for me too. I'm considering Chevy volt cells, or possibly a 32s2p custom pack of Yinlong LTO 40ah cylindrical cells.

I did not get the Mobipus, in the end I bought a Sevcon Gen4Size6. I fitted this to the bike October 2018 and the results were encouraging. I still need to tune the throttle though. Work will start to pick up now since I have cancelled work on another project. I will be looking to replace the ME0913 with a ME1507 and increasing the pack voltage to 99.9V nominal.

Bernel
 
Bernel said:
Mandres said:
Hi, awesome project! I was just wondering if the Mobipus controller is still in the pipeline? I'm debating between their 600A model or a Sevcon gen4 and wondering if you might have experience with both?

Batteries are still a question mark for me too. I'm considering Chevy volt cells, or possibly a 32s2p custom pack of Yinlong LTO 40ah cylindrical cells.

I did not get the Mobipus, in the end I bought a Sevcon Gen4Size6. I fitted this to the bike October 2018 and the results were encouraging. I still need to tune the throttle though. Work will start to pick up now since I have cancelled work on another project. I will be looking to replace the ME0913 with a ME1507 and increasing the pack voltage to 99.9V nominal.

Bernel

I don't know what is your progress so far with your battery, but if you're not decided yet I suggest you to go for A123 pouch cells pack if you can.
A friend of mine and myself are using those cells on our motorcycles, mine is only drawing 16KW with a sabvoton controller on a 72V 40Ah pack, but his bike is drawing more than 42KW from the same pack with a Mobipus controller and it works perfectly fine.
Those packs are probably a little bit heavier than other chemistries, but not by much if you factor in the loss of capacity after a year and the fact that they tolerate high discharge rates so you don't need to go too high on capacity. In our case, the battery weights 25Kg for 72V 40Ah (23S 2P) and we had it reliably push 600A battery / 1000A phase.

They have a very low internal resistance, so they don't sag much under load and they are able to supply gigantic amounts of currents in both peak and continuous reliably so you don't need to invest on crazy capacities just to make your bike run. They are extremely safe and tolerate deep discharges until 2V per cell, they have a quite long life cycle and they almost don't self discharge so you can store them for years without worrying they will die. Basically this battery is a no brainer: install an Ant BMS bluetooth and you're good to go.

We bought those second hand, no idea how many cycles they had, but they are still going very strong. I have mine for more than a year now, doing around 30-40 km every day to go to work with a quite aggressive riding style: no problem at all. They were also very, very cheap when bought second hand (in my case around 370 Usd for a 72V40Ah battery), but that might largely depend on wherever you live.

I'm pretty sure you could fit at least 120V 40Ah in this bike, you have quite a bit of space. That would be a very impressive machine.
 
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