LightningRods mid drive kit

Here is how I do PAS without actual cadence or other sensors. Simple and effective:
Get up to your comfortable pedaling speed, and engage cruise. Then pedal as much as you like.
Infinite level settings for assist (limited by your throttle resolution). This is potentially safer than a regular PAS as I can easily reset assist when not needed while a regular PAS will continue to assist when I don't want it to.

LightningRods said:
I'd never use either PAS or torque sensing in technical off road situations or any situation where fine throttle control is important. The hand throttle is more immediate, both on and off, and offers far better throttle modulation than either of the other two. Using pedelec in a situation where poor throttle control could injure you is an odd choice.

The purposes of pedal throttles are to encourage the rider to pedal to get some exercise and to extend the range of the battery.
Click to expand...
 
That’s really smart Vad. The idea is to set a threshold with the automated system that is just below the speed where you would like to be. Then your physical effort can be to push just beyond that level.
 
Hi Mike,
I agree with your comment "Using pedelec in a situation where poor throttle control could injure you is an odd choice" absolutely 100%.

I am wondering whether you have ridden a recent e-mtb from one of the major manufacturers, e.g Specialized Turbo Levo, Trek Powerfly etc.? If not, I suggest you get a test ride, and not just round the block on level ground, but in technical offroad situations as well. I am sure you would not be impressed by the power levels, but you might find that they are nothing like any "pedalec" you have ever ridden, and the "Throttle control" is very definitely not "poor", but intuitive, effective and safe.

Anyway, we all have our own "riding personality" and different terrain we ride in, so each prefer different bike type and control setup, and that's great as long as we are all having fun!
 
I'd like to share a customer letter that I received this morning from Luc in Montreal, Canada.

************
Hello Mike,

Thats what I call very very fast shipping.
Im soo happy i got my motor yesterday. Everything is in perfect condition. Very sturdy packaging, and no importation fee to pay. 😊

I can't find the words to describe my happiness. This beautiful artwork motor is in my hands now.

Very soon I will make the installation on my bike. I will take a lot of photos and will send you some of the best ones of my finished build.

Keep me up to date as to when your enclosed chains guard will be ready. I want one for my drive.

Thanks again for everything!
Best regards!
Luc

************

Here are some photos of the two stage alloy drive that I just finished building for Luc. He asked for red anodizing, customized gearing, White Industries freewheels, BB mount reliefs for the suspension on his DH bike and other unique features. I'm looking forward to seeing his completed bike!

IMG_8424.jpg


IMG_8426.jpg


IMG_8428.jpg


IMG_8432.jpg


IMG_8434.jpg


IMG_8444.jpg


IMG_8446.jpg
 
I've only had one purchase experience with LightningRods. The shipping was as fast as any other vendor, the packing was good, and the design plus quality of the product was exceptional. If I had an idea for a new product, this guy would be my first stop to touch base and ask for advice...if you are willing to pay for good advice, LightningRods is the best...bad advice from the peanut gallery is free...
 
If you can't find them or an equivalent in Oz, the freewheel is $28 USD. First class postage is $25.

Cyclone also sells 5 bolt flanged freewheels for a couple of dollars less. The Dicta is not nearly as good as the ACS. You can check their postage from Taiwan to see if it's any better. http://www.cyclone-tw.com/Parts.html
 
The Dicta is barely useful for only some very specific applications. For a high-powered mid-drive with two chainrings on the Bottom-Bracket, the ACS Crossfire should be considered the minimum acceptable option...
 
ECI Imports Australia claims to have them in stock.

https://www.eciimports.com/product_info.php/products_id/9366
 
Thats a great price by the way Mike.

To get two of these from http://lightning-rods10.mybigcommerce.com/acs-freewheel/ would have cost a lot more.
 
I've just had the chainwheel freewheel in my LR 1500w kit replaced by a LBS.

I recall seeing a post about the longevity of a chainwheel freewheel being greatly affected by ramp up of power as opposed to slamming power suddenly through the parts.

I have a grintech cycle analyst 3 controlling my system. My CA3 is set to limit power to 750w at the moment. I find that setting the right balance of power and control on the off road tracks I ride.

Does anyone else with a LR 1500w kit have any CA3 settings advice I could use to get more range out of my repairs ?
 
Please anyone else with suggestions for longer chainwheel freewheel life please chime in.

Here is doing everything you can to help your chainwheel freewheel to live a long and productive life:

Start the bike rolling by pedaling.
Roll the throttle on smoothly as you get rolling.
Start out in a lower gear. The lower the gear, the less resistance the motor meets and the less torque is required to overcome that resistance.
Use an auxiliary power modulation switch with a Cycle Analyst. I strongly recommend these switches for my mid drives. You can govern motor power down to legal limits. You can also start off at 25% power and then “shift” to 50% and then on to 100% if you want to get serious.

I wouldn’t just hobble one of my drives down to 750 watts. Even if you did leave it at that setting most of the time I’d have full power available. More power can be as much of a safety item as good brakes. I power my way out of trouble more often than I hit the brakes.

Upgrading to a White Industies freewheel is also going to give you more service life. The ACS is a good $28 freewheel. At $85 the W-I is that much better. I’m not sure it’s cheaper by the mile, but for sure you will replace them less often.
 
Does that Modulation Switch work with the C.A. 2.3 or just the C.A. 3.0 ( for those of us that have a 2.3 )
Link to that Modulation Switch ?

Do you sell the White Industries $ 85 freewheel ? ( have them in stock ? )


LightningRods said:
Use an auxiliary power modulation switch with a Cycle Analyst. I strongly recommend these switches for my mid drives. You can govern motor power down to legal limits. You can also start off at 25% power and then “shift” to 50% and then on to 100% if you want to get serious.
Click to expand...
 
I’ve never owned a v2.3, only the 3.x. I went to Grin’s web site and read in the v2.3 manual that you can wire a potentiometer or other variable voltage source in to the “POT” circuit on the 2.3 in order to vary either max speed or max current. So that sounds like a yes.

I just rec’d a shipment of the White Industries HD freewheels.
 
I just completed a new mid drive. This drive mounts in front of the bottom bracket like a typical mid drive, but does not run through the right side chainwheel. Bicycle sprockets and chain start to have durability issues above 2000 watts. Since this motor is capable of 6000 watts, running through the bicycle drive isn't going to cut it.
This motor is a 50 kv wind of my well known Big Block. The first stage of reduction is 6.25:1 to a 219 sprocket running on sealed bearings on the BB axle. The sprocket spins completely independently of the BB axle and cranks and so no freewheel is needed. The second stage of reduction is from a thick stainless steel 1/2" driver to an equally sturdy 1/2" sprocket mounted on the brake rotor mounts on the rear wheel. Final drive chain can be up to #420.
The advantage to running on the left side is that the right side bicycle gears can be completely factory stock for pedal power only. The right side can be motorcycle grade sprocket and chain better suited to higher power levels. Avoiding the typical mid drive arrangement of lots of motor reduction meeting overdrive gearing from the chainwheel to rear wheel hugely reduces driveline stress.

LHD1.jpg


LHD2.jpg
 
That's the best of both worlds: middrive free of bicycle legacy weaknesses, yet not losing pedals.
I've run Bafang in the past, and though it works, it always lacked the fun factor and long term reliability was of concern with bicycle sprockets and those plastic gears. Hubs are fun but too much unsprung weight in the rear.

Do I understand correctly that since no freewheels are in the picture, regen braking is an option here?
Thanks!

LightningRods said:
I just completed a new mid drive. This drive mounts in front of the bottom bracket like a typical mid drive, but does not run through the right side chainwheel. Bicycle sprockets and chain start to have durability issues above 2000 watts. Since this motor is capable of 6000 watts, running through the bicycle drive isn't going to cut it.
This motor is a 50 kv wind of my well known Big Block. The first stage of reduction is 6.25:1 to a 219 sprocket running on sealed bearings on the BB axle. The sprocket spins completely independently of the BB axle and cranks and so no freewheel is needed. The second stage of reduction is from a thick stainless steel 1/2" driver to an equally sturdy 1/2" sprocket mounted on the brake rotor mounts on the rear wheel. Final drive chain can be up to #420.
The advantage to running on the left side is that the right side bicycle gears can be completely factory stock for pedal power only. The right side can be motorcycle grade sprocket and chain better suited to higher power levels. Avoiding the typical mid drive arrangement of lots of motor reduction meeting overdrive gearing from the chainwheel to rear wheel hugely reduces driveline stress.

LHD1.jpg


LHD2.jpg
Click to expand...
 
You are correct- there are no freewheels on the motor side. The motor sprocket is mounted solid to the motor shaft, the B.B. sprocket is spinning on sealed bearings like those in the B.B., and the wheel sprocket is bolted to the disc rotor lugs. Regen should work fine as long as primary chain tensioner works when the chain slack side and drive side swap under regen.
 
Mike,

Is there still a freewheel on the right drive side ? or just the bearings on the left side of the crank ?

Trying to figure out if you can pedal without the motor running ? or Can the Motor drive the bike without pedaling ? or both .

Are you selling / have in stock rear hubs that have both the 6 holes for the disc brake rotor and mounting holes for a rear sprocket on the same/left side ?
What is the cost of it ?
32 or 36 spoke hole hub ?

A picture so we can see which goes on the outside , brake rotor or sprocket .

Can you show pictures of just the crankset without the motor, showing the crank and bottom bracket and that bearing you speak of on the left side .



LightningRods said:
You are correct- there are no freewheels on the motor side. The motor sprocket is mounted solid to the motor shaft, the B.B. sprocket is spinning on sealed bearings like those in the B.B., and the wheel sprocket is bolted to the disc rotor lugs. Regen should work fine as long as primary chain tensioner works when the chain slack side and drive side swap under regen.
Click to expand...
 
How is there room for the disc brake caliper ?

Unless the rear sprocket is smaller in diameter than the disc rotor ?

All the reduction is done at the front ... at the cranks with a small sprocket on the rear wheel ?



LightningRods said:
, and the wheel sprocket is bolted to the disc rotor lugs.
Click to expand...
 
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