Window AC converted to central. First 94F day of season #6 page 9

Hi ed !
thanks for your comments
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I just spent 2 hrs rewiring it! Added a dual outlet so i can charge things like my phone, where i won't ever forget they are on charge. Before i'd charge in the den, but it was too easy to forget.
Also added an on/off switch under the table where it is easy to use.
And upgraded all wires to 14 awg, including the 8' cord to the wall outlet. Before the wires got warm, and begged me to upgrade. Now it could handle dual heaters should we enter a new ice age :lol: Or a rare dip into the 20's F.
Still summer here, but should dip down in a month or so. They predict a morning low of 63F monday, but that is not chilly at all. I'm just tired of morning lows of 78-81. Surf is STILL 83F.
Thanks for reading, guys! Let us know if you build a table heater! I like that it is permanent and totally out of the way 8)
PS: who will be the 1st to hang bacon in front? Put paper on the floor, easy clean up. :lol:
UPDATE: with the thicker wire it now glows in the dark 8) (on 240v it would be bright red, but i use it on 120v) Was only 74F this morning so fall is here 8)

I couldn't build one here; Jelly would probably eat it, or PeanutButter would take it out into the yard. If it was on, neither one of them has figured out hot stuff yet so they'd get burned. :/

Yogi and Kirin are smart enough to stay away from it when on, and not interested in such things when off. (I've used stove elements for battery test loads before).

Wouldn't want to put bacon in front of such a heater; bacon cooks much better when frying in it's own grease.

(aside from the issue of dogs who would never leave it alone long enough to cook, and eat the grease-splattered surfaces afterward. PeanutButter has cleaned the stovetop several times after I cooked dinner and left the mess to cleanup later....)

amber
it is not hard to make a guard. i'm using the elements from an old VHF TV antenna. just use more of them with 12 awg solid wire in between. i've added more since the picture. Aluminium wire connected the TV antenna elements. so no cost to be safer.
could use chicken wire too, numerous things could protect dogs.
Thanks for following my projects

I'd have to use metal tubes like bicycle frame tubing size; or thick stiff wire mesh like the tough dog crates.

Remember my dogs are almost as big as I am (the smallest, Jelly, is perhaps 100lbs now, and still growing, and the largest, Yogi is about 150lbs (perhaps a bit more since he's gotten a little thicker. ). So iff they want to they can bend or remove stuff that's not strong enough to resist their mass (or jaws).

But it's still a useful idea for places that don't ahve to worry about kids or dogs.

During a cold snap the floor of my shower (a steel tub, actually) gets very cold, as it sits on a concrete slab. In the past i run some hot water 1st, to take the chill out.
This winter i'm going to use " 800w oven broiler #2". plan is to plug it in for 2-3 minutes, unplug, let it drop to where i can pick it up, and hang it back on the wall. I'm going to space it an inch or so off the floor to avoid hot spots.
I have a 250w heat lamp in the ceiling, so the shower otherwise gets plenty warm. These elements i got for free have been laying around since 2005, so i'm determined to find some use for them.

A true luxury An item anyone can do without, but once you have it, you wonder how you ever lived without it.
Cool front gave a perfect day 76F high
Shower floor was 78F before and 88-93 after 2 minutes ON and 5 min OFF. Feet loved it as soon as i stepped in
I'm going to add some insulating header wrap to the steel feet i made, as they got really hot and i don't want to damage the finish of the tub. IR gun said 400F
Found out the power end stays cool enough to pick it up, after 5 min off. Might add some wrap there as a handle.
I'm going to make a mount in my BR to hang it on the wall, where it will also serve as an emergency heater, like, for the coldest day of the winter.
Thanks for reading!
UPDATE: i made the wall heater mount out of matching painted baseboard that my neighbor threw away. I put two 8" aluminum pins so i can slide it away from the wall when in use. Also might dry socks etc there. And it is up high so if i trip it is above my head, so i can't get poked in the eye :lol: and a visiting dog can't brush up against it :wink:
Ive got more of this baseboard, so i'm going to add a piece with pins and use it to hang things to dry, since i don't have a dryer. Going to cut up white plastic hangers to make pins. Good place to keep socks so they will be handy when i come out of the shower, right there on the wall above the headboard.
.#3. Put it under the desk in my den, with a dual outlet and on/off switch. Den in on the north side, so it gets pretty cold sometimes. Will see if this encourages me to go in there during a cold snap. This one is only 685 watts or so, the lower element from a GE oven, now being used on 120v instead of 240v.
UPDATE added 4 bars to make it hard to touch it. aluminum tubing from old VHF TV antenna.
Also tried the wall heater as it dropped to 59F this morning. Radiates good heat about 3 feet. Just go stand in front of your oven and open the door, to get the idea. I still like my basebed heaters better since the heat comes up from down low, and they only get up to 130F, so they are totally safe with no moving or plastic parts, so i can sleep with it on. I would never use the open elements while i''m asleep. They are the turbo power to get me out of bed on a really cold morning.

Got cool enough for a test, 52F .
Den is a small room, 9'x13', on the north side and it got down to 66F , after 4 minutes w/685w it felt warm, and comfy after 6 min. Desk is against the wall, so the heat rises and has to come toward my chair to escape. Toasty after 12 min; had to move back a few inches.
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Kitchen/dining was 70F so not really chilly but good enough to test. Remember i fixed air leaks for the ac, so this really helps with heat too. After 28 min w/850w it was 73F, but there was a varnish smell coming from the wood crossbar. it was 196F. So i added aluminum foil over the wood, and spaced the element better. On another 20 min, no smell and 75F.
11-18-18 update
cold front moved back north, so am low 62F. 73 in kitchen but it felt chilly because this is high humidity ocean air. So i turned on the table heater for 25 min. and it felt great to have the heat curling into my lap, at breakfast 8) So i call this a luxury heater, did not have it past 29 years, but now that i have it, i sure won't give it up. And it only costs 4 cents for electric for 25 min. Much better than any heat pump; they blow cold air at first, and take 5+ min to warm up. Not a luxury feeling.
Also realized i could of made a stealth design out of the elements from my old toaster oven. the elements would run along the center top, under the table; would be hard to see or touch with guards, and the warmth would impress any guests.

used 6 heaters this morning.
had 3 cold mornings in a row, 42F, 45, 50, highs were 55-59 so more like January.
Did NOT try the heat pump. The 850w will heat the kitchen, takes 2-3 hours (i don't use any heat in the kitchen at night, so it was 66F at 6am, and 70 felt good after 2 hrs. or so)
5pm update:
so it got up to 68 today, and starting at 2:30pm i was able to use the 77F warm attic air to heat the north rooms, which were closed off. they were 65 and got to 70 by 5pm. i prefer free solar heat, when available 8)
and Sat. was 65-73. used 2 hrs attic heat, got den to 73 from 70, then it rained.
Sunday expected 69am-80pm
So I see most houses use gas heat, and they just ran a line here. Checked the base rate, and they get $20/mo not including any gas so that is 240/yr, and since i only need heat 3mos, that works out to 80/mo Not including any gas So i seriously doubt it will cost $80/mo more for electric heat, but we will see. And the $80 does not include a furnace so there is no way i'll ever get gas heat here in FL.
12-2-18 sunday update:
68 low. and at 10:30 am it is 78, so all rooms have windows open This is why i picked FL (moved from NJ)
3pm 83

Last winters bills
nov 179kwh
dec 456
jan 388
feb 182 - goodman heat pump started to leak, but no more cold.
total 1205 kwh
1st bill up 42% so to estimate the entire heating season i'm adding 42% to 1205
so my 1st guess is that no heat pump will add 506 kwh for the entire season. or $50.60 at .10/kwh.
need another month for a better guess.
So what do you think guys, is it worth it to run a heat pump? or gas heat? or a fireplace?
feel free to post your power/heat bills.

ac UPDATED 12-16-18
As you recall i did not install Tstats to my ac, just on/off. This worked great with units 2+3, but on unit 1 i fell asleep twice last summer and it got so cold i decided to hook up a tstat
I had previously run a wire, so it was easy. I took the sensor off the evaporator coil and moved it to my BR. I will have to set the control panel in the attic which is inconvenient, but once i find a good cut-off temp, it will cycle on/off should i fall asleep. Still have the switch in the BR for ON/OFF so i can shut it off anytime i want. It has some sort of "econo" mode so i will get to see what that does. Should run the fan for 1 minute extra, i guess.

Do I count the cost of dog food for my four portable heaters?

(when they're all in the bedroom, it stays pretty warm, with the curtain/blanket across the doorway. frequently don't even need a blanket, with 40-45F lows outside).



FWIW, a common fireplace sucks already warmed air out of your house in the room it is in, and pulls cold air in via leaks in other rooms. (if it doesn't, your house will fill with smoke). It also pollutes the air of (at least) your neighborhood with particulates that choke some of your neighbors or trigger their asthma, etc., unless they stay inside their home with everything all sealed up (or use respirators when they come out).


Gas heat also does this but to a much lesser extent, and if ti is designed as a heat-exchanger it doesnt' have to do that, either.


My bedroom is "not connected" to the rest of the house for heating/cooling, in that the vent is blocked off so I can have my own temperature in here, vs what my brother keeps everything else at. (ideally I'd just have his room separate, and the rest of the house in zones for the way *I* want it, not using any central heat or A/C, but that's not how it apparently works).

So he has the central (heatpump / A/C) set for 71F in daytime, and usually 72F at night. IIRC, last year it was 69F, and the year before it was 67-68F. (the A/C temp gets set lower every year). He also has the main fan always on, which means that in winter heat is lost thru the attic by the vent air exchanging thru ducting with attic air. In summer, cooling is lost the same way.

SOme of the efficiency improvments I've made with attic insulation on ducting tubes and such have helped, as well as blocking off unused windows (already doublepane) with styrofoam insulation, so the costs haven't gone up as much as I'd expected (and sometimes even drop). Everything is electric, so only one bill to track.

Each of the bill dates below is for the previous month's activity. I can't find my files for previous years (and they only keep three online at the power company), so can't compare to before him moving in (was a lot lower usage). I'm on time-of-use, so the OnPk is the higher cost, OfPk is less. I couldn't find anything on the site to tell me the rates for each year, so comparing the TkWh usage is better than comparing the cost. Can't make the table actually display as a table, though, so some columns don't line up everywhere. :/

amber
when my dad built his house in 1948 he neglected to put a fresh air vent in the base of the fireplace, and we had to open a window a little, or, as you say, the house would get smoky. It was not there to heat the house, it was a hobby fireplace, like when you get bored you make a fire. did make fine marshmellows and baked potatoes. and did heat the LR. and used up all the twigs and branches.
my neighbor has a fireplace and he really smokes up the neighborhood.
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Wow, you really get a big bill in july/aug, i hope your brother pays his share

Trivia-
One might get the idea that it costs very little for electric in FL.
My next door neighbor got a new digital meter the same day in Oct 2011, so we both started at 0.
So far, on 12-22-18
ME 25,302 ............Tom 61,725 kwh OR in $ spent $2,530 vs. $6,172 It sure adds up
so you can see that Tom pays 144% more
$361/year vs $882/yr
So for the test, i'll add Tom's reading so you can see his too. He has a Lennox heat pump and 1 more room in his house, and 2 room mates. Not the same, but he is right next door, and i suspect has a more average pwr use.

2 mos combined is DOWN 5%. only 348 kwh for Dec. down from 456.
so forget the up 42% (my 1st guess)
it has been mild the last month, coldest morning low 43F.
certainly no complaints, it is why i moved from NJ to FL.
at .10/kwh that is 34.80 for dec.
my new guess is the 4 mos total will be within 10% of last year, last year was using the goodman heat pump heating the whole house..
I'd say the main reason it is so close is, i only heat 1 room 24/7, and use radiant heat in the kitchen and den.
the table and desk heaters get me warm within 2 minutes, and they get shut off 5 minutes before i leave.

Quick summary:
Unit 1 is in the attic loft and cools my bedroom, 8,000 btu's.
Units 2+3 also in the loft cool my BR, plus most of the house. (LR converted to Florida room, not cooled, bathrooms not cooled). two 5k, 10,000 btu total.
Unit 4, spare, 12,000 btu ac scheduled to replace 2+3.
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New test for 2019 summer: Hooked up condenser exit to vent on side of house. Last year units 2+3 were just dumping hot air into the attic for a test. Got up to 122F in the loft, so i'd like to see if it works better dumping outside. I rated the old set-up a 7 on a 1-10 scale, 10 being best. It was quite satisfactory, but on the hottest day, 93F it was wimping out. I plan to replace 2+3 with unit 4, but i'm curious to see if they can do better.
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Unit 1 mod: Moved the temp sensor from the attic ac to my BR. Last year i only had on/off. Twice i fell asleep and it got very cold, so i'm trying to use the digital controls which are still in the attic. Could be a PITA to set the temp, but once i get it right it should cycle on/off.

so the last 12 months used 3,583 kwh or $358 at .10/kwh vs. previous year 3,613 kwh or $361.30
This is the grand total, not each month! (why i like the FL mild climate)
Now look at the 4 months total with resistance heat, no heat pump:
1,170 kwh or $117 total, not each month. vs 1,205 or $120.50 previous year.
So my fears of a higher bill with inefficient heat/AC have been unfounded. :thumb:
When used in an efficient manner, old school cheap stuff works just fine!
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and my neighbor for the winter is now at 2,133 kwh or 82% higher

While i don't need to go off grid, anyone reading might be surprised how cheap they could do it.
With a 1000-1100 watt central ac, it would not take many solar panels to power my house. Someday i may try it mainly as a hobby. Buy an old E car and use it for the battery back-up. 5-10 years from now i bet they are really cheap, when the range is under 100 mi, and they are out of warranty. Might sell for $1000 or less, who knows. Will sure tell you guys if i try it.
The old Goodman was 2650w and that would take a big inverter and a lot more panels. Now you can almost run my house on D cells
I've read about new panels that are 400w each cheap too!
https://seekingalpha.com/news/3442558-u-s-solar-installations-rebound-prices-plummet-woodmac-forecasts

So for 12-22-18 to 3-20-19 i used 825 kwh and my neighbor, with 2 roommates used 2301 kwh.
for the winter he spent $147 more for 3 months.
BUT each mate pays $600/mo so 1200 x 3 = 3600, less $147 for extra power= $3453 less water and any damage they might do (1 dented his harley)
Huge increase in income despite higher bills :thumb:
Far better to increase your income, than to just pinch pennies (if you need more money)

View attachment 1
here is the 2019 test of units 2+3 with the condenser output hooked 2 exhausts into 1 round flex duct. Since this is for a test only, i used the boxes that the AC's came in, to make the connection to the 12" round flex duct. in 2018 the condensers just dumped hot(122F) exhaust into the attic. This was to test warnings from naysayers that it would not work. It worked very good, but can't possibly be as good as an oustside exit.
the flex duct goes to the upper 16 inches of this window louver so the hot air goes outside:

i also added aluminum foil to the inside of the window, to reflect the hot west side sun.

I guess i could run the ceiling fan to delay for a few more days, but i'm eager to check it out. I turn it on, and it is so quiet i was not sure both 2+3 were on. Open the door to the attic and look up, and i realize the new condenser ducts act like a muffler 8) So even the attic is not that noisy.
On at 2:38 PM, and in less than an hour all 3 rooms are comfy 8) The attic is 95F and outside is only 82F; so we will have to wait for a 90F+ day to rate it. Unit 1 is not on; want to see how 2+3 do alone. Remember, 2+3 plus a $50 duct only cost me $155 total, since i already had a 16 year old 5k btu lying around doing nothing.
Condenser exit on the side of the house 104F.
Thanks for reading!
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Strangest ac video i've ever seen. Read some of the comments before you watch :lol:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jxRNQlyCfQk
his car ac turned a bottle of water to ice
Is is a crazy idea to install a HP backwards? Is there a consumer application? Maybe make my spare room a freezer? Note that the HP rep suggested his experiment. He knew it would work.

Only 2 days at 90F so far, and both tests ended late afternoon due to T-storms. Typical FL, that is why i like it here, it cools things off for outdoor activity.
10k BTU units 2+3 have kept up without needing the extra 8k BTU from unit 1.
It was sunny at 7am and full sun until 3pm, so a good test. i turn it on at 8:30am. This is the only compromise over the goodman 35000 btu- i could wait until 10 or 11 with that one. If i wait too long it just can't get really cool in here, still comfy, but not impressive. I fully expect to need to add unit 1 somewhere in the 92-100 range, as there is only so much you can get with just 10k btu's. Amazing it works this good, especially when it only cost me $155. :thumb: Only a dozen or so days per year 90+ here at the beach. Orlando has 100+ days a year 90+, just 40 miles away.
On 84- 89F days, i shut it off for 1-2 hours, as just 2+3 exceed my cooling needs

TV says it feels like 105F
so no morning cool down; morning low 80F, 90+% humidity
central 10k btu on at 8am.
Yesterday high was 93. did NOT turn on unit 1 8k btu, so still able to cope with just 10k btu(barely). on was 7:45am ran 8 hrs to 4:05pm. off for 45 min as i wanted to see if a cooling off helped; it did, but just 1 degree. Vent was 73-74 at 4:05 and later it was 72. So it ran 11 hours until 7:30pm but still 90+ outside It was comfy so i did not need unit 1 :thumb: With 11 hrs on, the humidity was low enough to be quite pleasant.......... But woke up 2am and the heat baked thru the concrete walls,and it was 84F inside, and i switched it on for another 1:20; it was easy work for it since the attic cooled to below 90, compared to 105F at 4pm. The chimney effect works good, but only at night so don't need the gable fan.
So that is all $155 can get me, comfy thru 93, but barely able at this point. Glad i have unit 1 to turn on at the push of a button, and unit 4 12k btu waiting to replace the old test 10k btu mules. Thanks for following my adventure :lol: I keep smiling every time i hear/see the AC guys ads Won't be calling them EVER 8)

neighbor put out four 6x10" and one 4x8" adj. ac vents for trash. i don't need them, but if i ever want to ac my workshop or fla. room, i could use them :thumb: proof that you can get just about anything for free on trash day.
in 1990 that house sold new for 99k. a few years later to Jeff for 200k, then he borrowed another 100k on it; then foreclosure and bank sold it for 300k. now it sold for 565k and of course they are upgrading the ac 8)

$155 AC working great! 8)
Have NOT needed to turn on unit 1 at all
Days are getting shorter, so odds are good that unit 1 won't be needed this year

Plywood is over the 3 east windows for (and after) hurricane Dorian. Today is 92F and it is a whopping 3 degrees cooler in the 2 east rooms
If you remember i planned to build a louver for those windows, but i never did, as i figured it would not be worth the effort. WOW i was sure wrong about that I should get the same effect by using slats to deflect the sun. A new test for next year :lol: 8)
See the pic of the west side middle of this page, to see what the east slats will look like. Will go across entire window, not just 1 side 8)

i think the window seals are shot, and air is leaking in.
2 clues. the humidity would not go as low as it is now. and the inside of the window frame is 94F, still hot. The plywood is not slowing heat soak. After noon, there is no sun on the east side, so why doesn't it cool down? Has to be air leaks.
1 large window, 4x5', i don't open anymore, so i'm thinking of sealing it shut. Really they should be replaced, being 30 yrs old, and only single pane. i have heard of "energy savings" from better windows, sure, but this is dramatic 10k btu's works great with it 93F outside, and 105F in the attic. before it was at the limit, now i'd expect 96 to be no problem
Surprising how much air leakage i uncovered by trying a "too small" ac.
8)