High performance & durability Cannondale Semi Recumbent

Looks to be in good condition!

I like the high back also. I've been contemplating getting one of those for a while.

You'll obviously want to change those tyres, they look original!
My favourites are a Schwalbe Big Apple 16x2 on the front and a Maxxis M-Tread 20x2.1 on the rear.
Although in my case the tyre selection (and pressure I run) is critical due to my lack of suspension.

The bars should be adjusted so your knees rise to about an inch below your hands during normal pedalling.

Cheers
 
Cowardlyduck said:
Looks to be in good condition!

I like the high back also. I've been contemplating getting one of those for a while.

You'll obviously want to change those tyres, they look original!
My favourites are a Schwalbe Big Apple 16x2 on the front and a Maxxis M-Tread 20x2.1 on the rear.
Although in my case the tyre selection (and pressure I run) is critical due to my lack of suspension.

The bars should be adjusted so your knees rise to about an inch below your hands during normal pedalling.

Agree with all things. I'm very likely to put an 18" or 20" up front. The rear will take a surprisingly large tire. Handlebar adjustment needs to be tended to. Nothing is adjusted just yet. Will talk more about this on the bikeE thread :)

https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=101753

Speaking of tire size changes, maybe i found the holy grail. There's 22" bike rims out there these days, because the BMX world decided that was the hip new thing recently. Myron's mopeds seems to think that 22" in bike is compatible with 18" in motorcycle tire, which gives us a couple more wheel size possibilities, if true.

( in bike tire sizes )
22" x 3.0 rear - 20 x 1.5" front ( front end is ~1 inches higher. )
22" x 2.50 rear - 20 x 1.5" front ( front end is ~1.5 inches higher. )
22" x 2.50 rear - 18 x 2.5" front ( no difference )
24" x 2.0 rear - 20 x 2.0" front ( no difference )

Current tires: 20 x 2.25" rear, 16 x 1.95" front.

The 24" x 2.0 combination would only work with a 20 inch motorcycle which is a rare beast. Or i'm limited to a bike tire in a tire setup, which i'm less stoked about.

The 22" may also fit on the BikeE, so buying one exclusively for the purpose of just fitting a motorcycle tire for investigative reasons may yield something useful anyway, because the bikeE is very low to the ground and i wouldn't mind having a bit taller of a ride.
 
Apparently there are two 22 inch bike rim types :lol:. I found a company that makes one in ISO 457. It's 36 holes and 1.5 inch wide. Effin' perfect for a 18 x 2.5" moto tire.

https://www.modernbike.com/we-the-people-logic-22-welded-rim-36h-black

According to kingfish, ISO 457 is the same as an 18" motorcycle rim :thumb:

https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=18511&start=25#p294943

So my plan does work. And i took a couple pictures of the bike with a 1.5 inch raise for a 'worst case scenario' 22 x 2.5 x 20 x 1.5":

The bike would look MUCH better with a larger hoop...

24inch rim.jpg

And here's the bike with a 1.5 inch front tilt ( worst case scenario ). Not bad!

I think this means the 22 x 2.5 rear - 20 x 1.5 front combination may work out.

1.5inch-raise.jpg
 
OK. I looked at a couple 18" moto tires already and it looks like the the outer diameter varies from 24.2" to 24.8" ( 2.25 - 3.0 size ).
So actually the rear 18" moto easily equals a 24" bike size :bigthumb:
So i do believe that the front/rear balance wont' be a problem on a 24"/20" equivalent wheel size. How killer is that? :mrgreen:

The question is then, what to do about the front end. I have to pull the front end apart to be sure of this, but i know that the original fork is either a 1 1/4 or a 1 1/2, which means that the big 'handlebar tube' in the front is going to create a big problem for me.

There are adapters that convert the cannondale headset to 1 1/8in or 1 1/4 in, but the largest that 20" suspension forks come in is 1 1/8".

And I'd like to keep the original handlebar tube if possible, because it's very nice looking.

Perhaps i could do something really horrible and hack up the original headshok fork and use it's tube, plus a crapton of shims, and then fill in the cracks with JB weld to turn a 1 1/8" fork into a drop in replacement. Maybe i could use a busted lefty fork or headshok fork from another cannondale rather than sacrificing mine. I'm going to call cannondale to find out if these can be swapped around etc.

I'm very excited about having larger wheels and a stiffer front fork.. because i've bottomed out the front wheel's travel multiple times while riding it as a pedal bike. Having that happen at 45mph is terrifying. Bigger wheels would look badass and allow me to utilize the 4T winding 27mm or 30mm DD hubs, solving the battery problem.

I just wish i would have known about 22" BMX rims before i started this build!
 
So i was browsing around for handlebar tubes and found out that rans sells one with an inner diameter of 1 1/8 inches, and outer diameter close enough to 1 1/4 in. that you can use 1 1/4in clamps. I gave rans a call and they were super super helpful and knowledgeable, as usual. :)

So here's what we would need to deal with the conversion to 1 1/8in. steerer tube..

BPHB0035-2T.jpg


http://shop.ransbikes.com/product-p/bphb0035.htm

Pair this with one each of these clamps..
http://shop.ransbikes.com/product-p/mscp0212.htm
http://shop.ransbikes.com/product-p/bscp0130a.htm

And then i imagine a yuuuuuuuuuge threaded rod could be used to get the tension right on the headset.

Rans also has all sorts of cool bits for recumbents in general on their online shop. I'm so grateful that they have a solution that fits standard 1 1/8in. tubes.

Then, you need a headset conversion kit. Many companies sell these. Here is one of many.

https://www.cannondaleexperts.com/Cannondale-Reducer-Headset--SIHeadshok-to-1-18_p_304.html

I'm off to order the following things:

1) shitty 20" suspension fork
2) rans handlebar tube bits
3) 22" rear rim
4) 18 x 2.5" moto tire.
 
This weekend I extended the steerer tube on a used Surly bike fork by inserting a 1" 413 tube about 2 inches into the 1 1/8" steerer and then inserting a 1 1/8" OD over that 1" tube. I sanded or ground the tubes so that they were a press fit and then used Brampton 20/20 toughened epoxy when I hammered the tubes into place. Seems super solid, but probably very hard to reverse.

The trick is to pick tube wall thicknesses that are appropriate for developing the interference fit. I probably should have chosen the 1 1/8" tubing with a .058 instead of the .065. It would have save me a lot of work on widening the ID of that tube. Would have been worth the extra $6.50 to possibly not have to do any or as much of that work.

https://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/mepages/4130tubing_un1.php

steerer1_sm.jpg
steerer2_sm.jpg
 
Clever, and i'm sure it would actually work on a bike like mine, since so little weight rests on the front tube.
On the cannondale though, the fork's tube is of an oddball size. About 1.55 inches..

cannondale-headset.jpg

Not quite 1 5/8 inches. Not quite 1 1/2 inches. :roll:
 
Ah. I was going by the 1 1/4 and 1 1/8 inch sizes you mentioned. That looks like a metric diameter of 40mm to me.
 
It looks like i may have made a pretty big mistake in ordering a suspension fork. I did not account for something important.

4.jpg


On the cannondale, the pedals also cross the path of the fork. But it's too soon to say if this will be an issue; the fork arrives tomorrow, so we'll see.

If the suspension fork does not work out, this leaves me with two options:

1) The OE fork will take at least a 16 x 2.5" front tire, and there's a couple options for that out there. This would give me the front raise i'm desiring, but not the pothole smacking durability. However the 22" / 18" rear moto tire idea is out the window now. But i can put a 2.5-2.75" in the rear.
2) I go with a solid chromoly 20" fork up front, and a super fat tire, IE 20 x 2.4. Comfort wise, this might be close enough. Safety wise, an improvement large enough to justify the change.
3) I find one of the super rare 20" cannondale head shocks ( keep dreaming!! )
4) I have someone cut up and modify my OE fork to extend the legs.

Maybe the suspension fork would create a lot of fork flop in itself and be a complete bust..

Stay tuned :lol:
 
I called Cannondale. In their opinion, any modification to the bike is unsafe, including a stiff front 20" that retains the same trail and fork height. Dude kept emphasizing that. I replied each time with.. 'okay, now that the lawyers are happy, what about x..' :lol:
They say they never made 20" headshok forks ever though, so option #3 is out the window.

He also says the headtube is 1.57" inches. Yeah, thanks cannondale..

I think i should really be building my own frames at this point because working with others' designs is such a pain in the ass. Ah well, we will eventually make the cannondale into a dream machine.
 
Yeah. I emailed a couple 22 inch rim makers about the depth of their rims and mentioned i wanted to fit it moto tires on and use them for an ebike and i got the same sort of responses too, except they were even less helpful. Couldn't even give me measurements about the rim depth.
It makes me not want to buy anything from these companies.

Not once have i ever seen a structural failure in a properly assembled and specced bicycle on this entire forum. Hell, i built uprights that did 50-60mph plenty. Bikes are amazingly strong in relation to what we ask them to do for us.


Anyway i've hit a wall with mounting a battery on the Bike E, so the cannondale is getting some love tonight. Because the Bike E is such a great pedal bike, i'm electrifying the Cannondale first.
 
neptronix said:
It makes me not want to buy anything from these companies.
I feel ya. Luna Cycle got on my shit list by completely ignoring the message I included in their ordering system, regarding a discrepancy between their product info and selections when ordering. After an email, they only giving me the option to refuse the shipment, and claim I'll still have to pay for the shipping. When I asked why they didn't read the message included with the order, this was their response: "We cannot honor requests that are not available. Even at the time of the order. If you had an issue, you could have emailed us ahead of time to ask about the 26" option."
 
neptronix said:
Not once have i ever seen a structural failure in a properly assembled and specced bicycle on this entire forum.
There have been several, even on commercially available unmodified frames. But not often, and usually when pushed hard, probably harder than they were designed for. Some of the KMX trikes come to mind, some regular bikes like mark's cruiser recently, and somebody's Trek that snapped behind the headtube a few years ago, etc.


There've also been some on custom-built bikes, like when my SB Cruiser trike broke in half recently...but even though it's main keel tube broke, the framework that crossed that break holding the in-frame IGH kept the trike from actually separating, and I was able to ride it home (slowly). No design changes yet, but it does need something to prevent this, just haven't decided what yet. Pics and details are in the build thread.

Similarly, CrazyBike2 broke at the rear stays after a few years of use, while I was at the apartment after the fire. Was able to strap along the bottom to pull it together enough to keep riding until I could weld that back toether, and then redesign the frame so it wouldn't happen again (and it didn't).
 
I suppose the KMX trikes breaking is no surprise. A weak design that's meant to twist around corners and is made out of aluminum.... i bet they fail on pedal power too. Occasionally bike makers do put out weak designs.

Some of those treks snap behind the headtube on their own... certain years.. :confused:

I did forget one thing - mid drives like to snap rear chainstays. So there's one example of non-remediable motor power induced failure. Although luckily, it doesn't seem like it's hurt anyone yet.

I'm glad to hear your trike failed gracefully. I've screwed with this bike so much that i've forgotten to tighten down certain bolts, then rode away 10 miles. The first time, i didn't tighten down the mid drive, and it popped off the frame after 12 miles... :lol:
The second time, i forget, it was another drivetrain part and i only noticed it the next day :mrgreen:
 
So anyway, the front shock arrived, and i tested for fitment and was not surprised at what i saw.
I need about an additional inch to clear the suspension fork's crowns, which is really disappointing. Because the current pedal width is 5.5 inches and would need to go up to 6.5 - isn't that ridiculous fatbike territory?

cant-shock.jpg

So anyway, i'm thinking about returning the fork because yeah... she is just too wide for the cranks to clear it!
The only upside is that the suntour 'junior' fork, labeled a kid's fork, could get much stiffer than the cannondale's with the preload adjusted.

I found a stock shock adjustment after some hunting, and stiffened up the front fork significantly. So that was cool. Hopefully no more bottoming out the suspension travel, hm?

Shock-adjustment-3.jpg

I'm beginning to get the hub motor on. Upgrading to 180mm discs in the rear while i'm at it. I'm glad i found a solution for the front suspension. I could run a 16 x 2.5" up front, so i think i'll do just that, as the bike is gonna have a fat rear!
 
Finally solved the chainline problem once and for all with a 35T up front and a 22t middle, versus the original 32T front, 22T middle. The chain line for the front section ran at a fairly sizeable angle originally, now it's nearly perfectly flat. The problem is finally solved, and i'm much closer to having the kind of gearing that can work up to 35-40mph.. :)

Disc brake fitment on the ezee is a little funky. It may need a disc brake spacer.. or two!
 
Thanks for sharing - always interesting. If it helps, you can have a custom spinner fork or a suntour xcm made in china. You could ask for a suspension fork with 85-90mm dropout and use an old road hub. That should help with pedal clearance. Though the brake rotor mount will need some modding.
I just sent a design there for a 20x3" tire suspension fork. Total cost is around $50 (XCM)+ shipping to wherever you live. No idea though if the result will meet my expectations :shock: The spinner is a lot more expensive, but probably better made too.
Also, did you manage to find moto tires with a decent weight ? All I could find for 20" (or 17" moto) are super heavy 2.5Kg+ tires. If you move to 22", that's an even larger tire.
 
qwerkus said:
If it helps, you can have a custom spinner fork or a suntour xcm made in china. You could ask for a suspension fork with 85-90mm dropout and use an old road hub. That should help with pedal clearance. Though the brake rotor mount will need some modding.

Thanks for the idea. I'm willing to use pad brakes on the front, if need be, as the kool stop salmon pads are plenty powerful even in a 20" wheel. How do you get in contact with them for a one-off weird fork?

It looks like 90 & 85mm hubs are extremely rare and usually low quality. I see one 'new old stock' 85mm hub, and a few dangerously chinsy looking Chinese makes.. there's also a 70mm alex moulton hub, but it has a spoke hole count of 20.. (?)

Where's the shimano grade stuff..

qwerkus said:
Also, did you manage to find moto tires with a decent weight ? All I could find for 20" (or 17" moto) are super heavy 2.5Kg+ tires. If you move to 22", that's an even larger tire.

http://myronsmopeds.com and http://treatland.tv both sell moped/motorcycle tires with weights usually listed.

If you are looking for 20" tires specifically, see my thread comparing a bunch of them for puncture resistance reasons:
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=97992

If you don't need as much puncture resistance as i do, grab a hutchinson spherus if you can. You get 1mm more rubber thickness than a very thick bicycle tire, and the tire is something like 1.2kg/2.5lbs.. very doable :)

In 18", treatland has told me that this is the lightest tire that has a road tread..
https://www.treatland.tv/sava-MC11-moped-tire-p/sava-mc11-18x2.50-tire.htm
 
neptronix said:
Thanks for the idea. I'm willing to use pad brakes on the front, if need be, as the kool stop salmon pads are plenty powerful even in a 20" wheel. How do you get in contact with them for a one-off weird fork?

My fork should be ready next week. I'll pm you some pictures; if quality is ok, I can give you the contact to the guy.

Hubs are not the problem. Look for vintage shimano dura ace or campagnolo road hubs. Plenty of 80 to 90mm available. What would be awesome is a 85-90mm rear hub with a threading. You can than use on of those threaded disc adapter, and still have disc brakes.

41fjqw5h1fL._SX425_.jpg


Yet on a wheel this small, drum brakes would work like a charm. Maybe an old sturmey archer with 90mm O.L.D ?

About tires: I'm looking for 20x3" tires. Though...
 
The BikeE is getting all the love as i build it's rear tail fairing; I have never ridden a bike with a rear tail fairing before, so i'm pretty excited to give it a spin.

Given that the bikeE has a ~1ft shorter frame, i immediately had weight balance issues - on pedal power, the front wheel can lift up with a heavy pedal stroke in the right gear, and occasionally the front wheel can catch some air. But the cannondale doesn't do this at all.

However, i won't regret improving the weight balance on the cannondale too, so i ordered some super flat pedals, which would allow me to move the seat forward by the distance ( ~4mm? ) that they free up.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/253247153578
 
qwerkus said:
My fork should be ready next week. I'll pm you some pictures; if quality is ok, I can give you the contact to the guy.

Excellent. Thanks for your help so far :)

qwerkus said:
Hubs are not the problem. Look for vintage shimano dura ace or campagnolo road hubs. Plenty of 80 to 90mm available. What would be awesome is a 85-90mm rear hub with a threading. You can than use on of those threaded disc adapter, and still have disc brakes.

41fjqw5h1fL._SX425_.jpg

I can't seem to find any of those on ebay etc.
I did find a "70mm" sturmey archer hub. I think that means it's 70mm wide. Drum brakes would work just fine for the front, since we have regen out back, which would do most of the braking. Interesting thought.
I think i would be limited to 2.0" or 2.25" tires with such a narrow hub, but the whole front suspension thing could work out if i could get a really narrow fork made.

qwerkus said:
About tires: I'm looking for 20x3" tires. Though...

I think you'll have to turn to the motorcycle side for that. I've seen plenty of 16 x 2.5-2.75 tires with road treads... and knobby ones larger..
 
neptronix said:
I can't seem to find any of those on ebay etc.
I may have a couple, if I find them you can have them for postage.
 
https://www.amazon.com/ADEDS-Bicycle-Freewheel-Threaded-Adapter/dp/B01JREIQYG/ref=sr_1_fkmr0_1?keywords=amazon+bicycle+threaded+hub+disc+adapter&qid=1566109676&s=gateway&sr=8-1-fkmr0
 
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